Author Topic: do you miss your table saw?  (Read 12763 times)

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Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1065
do you miss your table saw?
« on: November 10, 2016, 10:41 AM »
I have been re-evaluating my work flow in my home shop and I'm now considering selling my Hammer slider and just going with a MFT3 and TS55.  It will save me a lot of space and maybe even allow me to get two cars into the garage.  If you had a full size table saw and sold it, how was the transition?  Are there things you miss about it?  Did it even matter?  I currently have a MFT 1080 that I only use for assembly so having a second one I think could be really handy, especially if I get the router table accessory. I also have a Carvex that could allow me to get rid of my band saw as well.  I know a lot of you EU guys get by without big iron equipment so am I on the right track considering this change? 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

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Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1871
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2016, 10:57 AM »
IMO the kind of projects you work on would make a big difference in these decisions. Unless of course the top priority is getting the space for the car then you do what you must.
+1

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1065
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2016, 11:01 AM »
I make cutting boards for friends, some outdoor furniture from time to time.  I was never thrilled about using just the MFT before I got my slider but there are so many great ways and accessories for the MFT3, it may make more sense now.
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, Kreg router table

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2276
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2016, 11:17 AM »
I would keep your bandsaw as that will allow you to make thin rips, resaw and do a host of things no other tool will do. I have a big cabinet saw and I have not even turned it on in 3 years. I am really thinking about selling it as it just takes up space next to wall. The only reason I have not sold it yet is I already own it and I figure -- what if I need it. So far it has not happened and I have make lots of furniture and other projects without even needing to turn it on. You might just try making several projects without it and see how you get along and it it fits your workflow. If the answer is that it works and you do not suffer quality and still enjoy making things without it, then you have your answer.

Offline QuailRider43

  • Posts: 57
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2016, 11:25 AM »
I have been re-evaluating my work flow in my home shop and I'm now considering selling my Hammer slider and just going with a MFT3 and TS55. 

If you work with sheet goods a lot, you won't miss it.  I use MFT + TS55 + sliding mitre saw almost exclusively for such work.  The only time I dust off the table saw is for ripping lengths of solid lumber.  A table saw is really the only way to go for this.  If you're making furniture legs, rails and stiles for cupboard doors, solid edging, resawing lumber etc, then you need your table saw. 

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 82
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2016, 11:30 AM »
I had a fully tricked out Unisaw with Bies outfeed table and a 52" extension table.  I sold it when I downsized and moved to a new home with less space.  I am amazed by what can be done with a tracksaw and an MFT3 and have built over 2 dozen cabinets with cope and stick doors, and an entire entertainment/media wall project all with out the table saw.  I won't be replacing it any time soon as the track saw/ MFT table have been so versatile, however, the table saw is sorely missed for its ability to easily plow dadoes and narrow strip ripping was so much more convenient with the table saw. 

So yes, I do miss my table saw, but I can live without it.  If I had to do it again, given the space constraints I had to deal with, I would still do the same thing.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 11:32 AM by Dick Mahany »

Offline QuailRider43

  • Posts: 57
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2016, 11:32 AM »
I would keep your bandsaw as that will allow you to make thin rips, resaw and do a host of things no other tool will do. I have a big cabinet saw and I have not even turned it on in 3 years. 

Not to hijack the tread, but I've been considering buying a decent sized bandsaw as my next tool purchase, but I have no prior experience with bandsaws beyond what I've seen in videos.  Realistically, can a bandsaw replace a table saw for ripping lumber i.e. is it as smooth, fast and straight at ripping as a table saw?  I've heard people complain about 'drift' with bandsaws, and the fence is a lot shorter than a TS fence.

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1065
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2016, 12:31 PM »
I have been re-evaluating my work flow in my home shop and I'm now considering selling my Hammer slider and just going with a MFT3 and TS55. 

If you work with sheet goods a lot, you won't miss it.  I use MFT + TS55 + sliding mitre saw almost exclusively for such work.  The only time I dust off the table saw is for ripping lengths of solid lumber.  A table saw is really the only way to go for this.  If you're making furniture legs, rails and stiles for cupboard doors, solid edging, resawing lumber etc, then you need your table saw.

That's really the only thing I am concerned about... ripping relatively small pieces of solid lumber.  I can always keep the band saw, rip with it and then run it through the Planer to even them up.  I know there's a Festool way of accomplishing this but I can't remember what it is.
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, Kreg router table

Offline Billedis

  • Posts: 570
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2016, 01:01 PM »
@HowardH I sold my 3hp Grizzly with 52" fence and a fine wood working outfeed table plan in April and purchased the portable Saw Stop for my table saw.  I make custom cabinets, and use the SS for face frames.  I don't miss the big table saw, and it gave me so much more room.  I work out of my attached three car garage and do a lot of 8' high cabinets for master bedroom closets.  Bill

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 428
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2016, 01:17 PM »
I have been re-evaluating my work flow in my home shop and I'm now considering selling my Hammer slider and just going with a MFT3 and TS55.  It will save me a lot of space and maybe even allow me to get two cars into the garage.  If you had a full size table saw and sold it, how was the transition?  Are there things you miss about it?  Did it even matter?  I currently have a MFT 1080 that I only use for assembly so having a second one I think could be really handy, especially if I get the router table accessory. I also have a Carvex that could allow me to get rid of my band saw as well.  I know a lot of you EU guys get by without big iron equipment so am I on the right track considering this change?

Don't do it. The Hammer slider outperforms the TS55 and any rail saw by miles. They both have their place, but nothing compares to accuracy you get from a tablesaw with 10 seconds of setup time and it is 100% repeatable. Same on the bandsaw, the Carvex cannot even remotely be compared to dedicate bandsaw. Festool makes great tools, but don't fall into the trap of thinking they are better than dedicated stationary tools.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1661
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2016, 01:37 PM »
@HowardH I wouldn't sell it unless you really need the extra space.  About 2 - 3 years ago, I needed to either upgrade my tablesaw or try it without a tablesaw. I decided to buy the TS55 and MFT and move toward selling my old tablesaw and not replacing it. I tried that for about 2 years while selling my old saw. It was only after I sold it that I realized how much I missed a table saw. It's not that you can't do everything with the TS55/MFT combo (and maybe a bandsaw and some hand tools), but it's so much easier to rip smaller boards with a tablesaw. So, when the Sawstop Jobsite saw came out, I bought it. I'm sure you'll hear varying opinions about the saw and the company, but I love it. For my use, it works perfectly and is safer and more accurate than my old saw (since that saw was about 20 years old). So, if you really don't have to sell your Hammer, I'd keep it. If my old tablesaw had been adequate, I'd still have it. As it is, I now use both the Sawstop saw and my TS55/MFT for appropriate tasks. I am happy.
Randy

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2276
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2016, 02:00 PM »
I would keep your bandsaw as that will allow you to make thin rips, resaw and do a host of things no other tool will do. I have a big cabinet saw and I have not even turned it on in 3 years. 

Not to hijack the tread, but I've been considering buying a decent sized bandsaw as my next tool purchase, but I have no prior experience with bandsaws beyond what I've seen in videos.  Realistically, can a bandsaw replace a table saw for ripping lumber i.e. is it as smooth, fast and straight at ripping as a table saw?  I've heard people complain about 'drift' with bandsaws, and the fence is a lot shorter than a TS fence.

Yes, a well tuned bandsaw with the right blade will yield surprisingly accurate cuts.

Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 169
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2016, 03:49 PM »
I would keep your bandsaw as that will allow you to make thin rips, resaw and do a host of things no other tool will do. I have a big cabinet saw and I have not even turned it on in 3 years. 

Not to hijack the tread, but I've been considering buying a decent sized bandsaw as my next tool purchase, but I have no prior experience with bandsaws beyond what I've seen in videos.  Realistically, can a bandsaw replace a table saw for ripping lumber i.e. is it as smooth, fast and straight at ripping as a table saw?  I've heard people complain about 'drift' with bandsaws, and the fence is a lot shorter than a TS fence.

Yes, a well tuned bandsaw with the right blade will yield surprisingly accurate cuts.

Well......  With a table saw you can rip boards and then glue them into a panel without jointing or planing the freshly ripped edge.  Not so with a bandsaw.  Any bandsaw.  You always have to work the edge you just cut with the bandsaw.  It does not come off the bandsaw with a glue line flat smooth edge you can glue up or present as the finished surface.

Offline andyman

  • Posts: 629
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2016, 05:18 PM »
Keep it if you can they are a lot faster especially for repeat cuts

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 834
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2016, 05:50 PM »
I don't know, for me I'm going the other way.  3 years with a track saw and while it's great for some things, the table saw is faster for others.  The track saw is fiddly for repetitive cuts (sometimes they are a little off, other bits required to set the rail, clamps sometimes required, more bits required for narrow rips).  I'm really coming to hate the process of digging out the misc. bits for something that should be simple, especially when it's a one off piece.  The table saw makes all this quick and painless and I plow through 8/4 hardwood without effort.  The tracksaw has to work a bit harder and you should really switch to a rip blade. 

I can appreciate that some do fine without the table saw, and I thought I could too, but damnit, I'm putting a table saw in the shop!
-Raj

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2276
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2016, 07:00 PM »
I would keep your bandsaw as that will allow you to make thin rips, resaw and do a host of things no other tool will do. I have a big cabinet saw and I have not even turned it on in 3 years. 

Not to hijack the tread, but I've been considering buying a decent sized bandsaw as my next tool purchase, but I have no prior experience with bandsaws beyond what I've seen in videos.  Realistically, can a bandsaw replace a table saw for ripping lumber i.e. is it as smooth, fast and straight at ripping as a table saw?  I've heard people complain about 'drift' with bandsaws, and the fence is a lot shorter than a TS fence.

Yes, a well tuned bandsaw with the right blade will yield surprisingly accurate cuts.

Well......  With a table saw you can rip boards and then glue them into a panel without jointing or planing the freshly ripped edge.  Not so with a bandsaw.  Any bandsaw.  You always have to work the edge you just cut with the bandsaw.  It does not come off the bandsaw with a glue line flat smooth edge you can glue up or present as the finished surface.

I can do this with the right resaw blade.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1661
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2016, 07:18 PM »
I would keep your bandsaw as that will allow you to make thin rips, resaw and do a host of things no other tool will do. I have a big cabinet saw and I have not even turned it on in 3 years. 

Not to hijack the tread, but I've been considering buying a decent sized bandsaw as my next tool purchase, but I have no prior experience with bandsaws beyond what I've seen in videos.  Realistically, can a bandsaw replace a table saw for ripping lumber i.e. is it as smooth, fast and straight at ripping as a table saw?  I've heard people complain about 'drift' with bandsaws, and the fence is a lot shorter than a TS fence.

Yes, a well tuned bandsaw with the right blade will yield surprisingly accurate cuts.

Well......  With a table saw you can rip boards and then glue them into a panel without jointing or planing the freshly ripped edge.  Not so with a bandsaw.  Any bandsaw.  You always have to work the edge you just cut with the bandsaw.  It does not come off the bandsaw with a glue line flat smooth edge you can glue up or present as the finished surface.

I can do this with the right resaw blade.

No question you can do it, but once you have a tablesaw, it's easy to do on the table and, for some, easier than the bandsaw. If you already have a tablesaw, a good high quality tablesaw, then selling it doesn't make quite as much sense as it would if you have an old, low quality saw unless there is a compelling reason. I attempted to use a bandsaw, hand tools, etc. for over a year to do rips (no resews, but rips). I bought a jig or two for the MFT so that I could do the rips with my TS55. I'm not saying it didn't work, but it was more trouble. There is no question you can do almost any woodworking task in a variety of ways. It's what you feel comfortable with doing easily and accurately that matters because, in the end, the result is always significant and when you feel at ease with a particular method, the result is usually better.
Randy

Offline Steve Rowe

  • Posts: 820
  • Teach them safety when they are young.
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2016, 11:11 PM »
It sounds like you have all the resources to make this determination for yourself.  Stop using your slider for several months and use your MFT and TS55 exclusively.  You will quickly determine what is right for you and the work you do.

Perhaps I am a little dense but, I just don't get where you are trying to go with your shop.  Less than a week ago you were thinking of upgrading to a Felder K700 asking if it was worth the upgrade.  Now you are thinking of dumping the slider altogether.  IMO, there is no way an MFT and TS55 will come anywhere close to the accuracy, speed and overall function a slider.
Steve

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1866
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2016, 11:25 PM »
If you need a place to "store" that slider, let me know. thx to OH is a hike that I could make for the right price!

I am lucky to be moving into a new house with more garage space and dedicated shop space.

I am ready to move up from my CMS (with 75 under it).  It has treated me well, but I want to go the opposite direction.

Let us know how you take this!

Cheers. Bryan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
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  • Posts: 3536
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2016, 02:21 AM »
Hi Howard

I did exactly this about 4 or 5 years ago. My relatively small table saw took up the complete space of the garage end of my workshop and it was mainly used for breaking down sheet goods. The TS, guide rails and Parf Dogs provide a far better (and for me more accurate) method of dealing with MDF and ply.

However, I still needed to do sawn rebate work as the saw's scribing line is usually so much better than a routed line. I bought a cheap and cheerful small table saw and only afterwards discovered that the riving knife could not be easily removed for rebating. I subsequently migrated to the CMS-TS which works brilliantly. It is small and easy to move out of the way yet produces excellent results both for rebating and those narrower rips which are often so difficult with a TS and rails.

So, to answer your question - yes I do miss a small aspect of the capability of my old table saw. It has been mainly replaced by the TS and rails but for narrow rips and rebating I still need a small table saw and the CMS-TS is the perfect choice.

Peter

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1800
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2016, 05:06 AM »
Band saw, table saw, track saw, hand saw, jig saw..... all have their design points of excellence. A skilled craftsmen can push the limits of any of these tools to encroach upon the areas of excellence of the other tools but cannot equal their excellence.

If you can't afford a table saw or don't have room for one, you can stretch the abilities of a track saw to approximate what a table saw is meant to do.

But, if you already have a table saw that works, I just can't see giving up that tool to use an tool that's inferior for what a table saw does well.
Birdhunter

Offline turnpike

  • Posts: 15
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2016, 07:13 AM »
I mostly use a bandsaw and the TS55.  I think something like a Dewalt 745 tucked away somewhere or built into a workbench would see some use.    I thought I'd do most things on the TS55 but I actually have issues with accuracy and squareness. I find I'm going to the bandsaw more often unless it's a big bit of ply.

I don't know anything about the carvex but I'd be surprised if it replaces a bandsaw?

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 730
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2016, 09:16 AM »
If you need a place to "store" that slider, let me know. thx to OH is a hike that I could make for the right price!

I am lucky to be moving into a new house with more garage space and dedicated shop space.

I am ready to move up from my CMS (with 75 under it).  It has treated me well, but I want to go the opposite direction.

Let us know how you take this!

Cheers. Bryan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm in this same situation. I have a TS75 in a CMS and also have a TS55. I recently moved to a new house with a 3 car garage, so I am in the market for a slider or sawstop. I do have a Hammer bandsaw N4400 and jointer planner A3-41(w/silent cutter head) but I really want to add a TS.

My vote would be to keep the Hammer K3 or upgrade to a Felder.
Daniel

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1065
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2016, 10:32 AM »
Hi Howard

I did exactly this about 4 or 5 years ago. My relatively small table saw took up the complete space of the garage end of my workshop and it was mainly used for breaking down sheet goods. The TS, guide rails and Parf Dogs provide a far better (and for me more accurate) method of dealing with MDF and ply.

However, I still needed to do sawn rebate work as the saw's scribing line is usually so much better than a routed line. I bought a cheap and cheerful small table saw and only afterwards discovered that the riving knife could not be easily removed for rebating. I subsequently migrated to the CMS-TS which works brilliantly. It is small and easy to move out of the way yet produces excellent results both for rebating and those narrower rips which are often so difficult with a TS and rails.

So, to answer your question - yes I do miss a small aspect of the capability of my old table saw. It has been mainly replaced by the TS and rails but for narrow rips and rebating I still need a small table saw and the CMS-TS is the perfect choice.

Peter

Thanks for chiming in Peter.  I have a fairly substantial investment in Festool and was thinking that going with CMS system could replace a router table and possibly the conventional table saw.  Unfortunately, it's NAINA and who knows when it would become available.  A good portable unit like the SS or Bosch could act as a substitute until the Festool model arrives upon our shores.  I was in the process of starting to build a conventional router table but I became intrigued with the CMS system instead.  Now I'm trying to decide if it's better to get the GE model or since I'm getting a new MFT/3, a VL system.  I'm thinking the VL with the hope that the TS module will make it over here and the MFT/3 can act as a support wide table. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, Kreg router table

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 415
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2016, 11:46 AM »
Do you have a dolly under your table saw? Being able to tuck it tightly to a wall might help free up space, then pull it out when needed.

Another option over the CMS which can be ordered from Europe, as it is mostly just metal, is an Mafell Erika, since it is also compact.

Mostly my table is used for narrow rips and most of the time with a table saw sled. I can not imagine cutting something less than 2" without a sled/slider of some kind.

Otherwise adding onto your garage or building a new workshop is always an option :)

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1065
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2016, 11:59 AM »
The Mafell Erika may be just the coolest table saw around.  Holy cow are they expensive!
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, Kreg router table

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 415
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2016, 01:11 PM »
The Mafell Erika may be just the coolest table saw around.  Holy cow are they expensive!
So you are going to own one then?  [big grin]

There will be a line of folks wanting to relieve you of that Hammer slider to offset the costs. I will start the bidding at $1,200 [cool]

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1065
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2016, 01:28 PM »
LOL!  triple that number would be a good
start! 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, Kreg router table

Offline JimD

  • Posts: 321
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2016, 05:15 PM »
I do not miss my table saw because I never got rid of it.  I pulled the 60 inch capacity rails, however, since they were for sheet goods and difficult to use in my 14x24 shop.  I believe what a track saw does is to at least reduce the need for large rip capacity.  For those of us with space challenged shops, I think it can eliminate this need in the table saw.  I know what a slider is but have never used one.  But I understand they are often used to break down sheet goods.  In my shop, that's the role of the track saw.  But a smaller slider where the function is cross cutting smaller pieces would be very nice to have, I expect. 

With enough space and money I think all these tools have their place.  The track saw may be largely relegated to a tool to use when away from the shop.  But in my shop, space is at a premium and I think the best setup is to have both a small table saw and the tracksaw (plus RAS and CMS). 

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3625
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2016, 07:44 PM »
I don't know, for me I'm going the other way.  3 years with a track saw and while it's great for some things, the table saw is faster for others.  The track saw is fiddly for repetitive cuts (sometimes they are a little off, other bits required to set the rail, clamps sometimes required, more bits required for narrow rips).  I'm really coming to hate the process of digging out the misc. bits for something that should be simple, especially when it's a one off piece.  The table saw makes all this quick and painless and I plow through 8/4 hardwood without effort.  The tracksaw has to work a bit harder and you should really switch to a rip blade. 

I can appreciate that some do fine without the table saw, and I thought I could too, but damnit, I'm putting a table saw in the shop!

This fellow read my mind and eloquently conveyed it.