Author Topic: Domino 700 XL  (Read 2394 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline brentasmith

  • Posts: 6
Domino 700 XL
« on: September 07, 2018, 06:29 AM »
I recently purchased my 7th Festool tool, the Domino 700... true to form the $1500 price tag is offset by the fact that there is nothing else produced that comes remotely close to the function of this tool... the pill that continues to be very difficult to swallow is when Festool produces a tool like this that doesn't include the very basic components required to use it... I spend $1500 on the domino which is capable of 8,10,12,14mm production, yet only the 12mm bit is included, and not a single domino... REALLY FESTOOL reaching into my pocket for $1500 isn't enough for you, by the time I drag all the products required to utilize the 700 to the checkout you have now reached into my pocket for $2300... if nothing else this is false advertising at its finest IMHO...

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline CirclDigital

  • Posts: 67
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2018, 06:32 AM »
Normally the content of the different sets are clearly advertised..... just buy the systainer with all the domino sizes and bits and you will be all set :-).

And then go enjoy your new machine....
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 08:51 AM by CirclDigital »

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 142
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2018, 06:58 AM »
I “hear ya” Brent. I went through the same frustration.
It’s kinda like there’s unstated (“hidden”) add-on costs to buying the tool.
But, as noted above, the product description does state what you’re actually getting -
Ergo - Technically - It’s not “false advertising”.
HIGHWAY ROBBERY might be a more appropriate description.
Either way - It leaves a bad taste in your mouth.[sad]
“Grit your teeth and swallow hard” - If ya can - And move on.
It IS a great tool - That’ll change the way you do woodworking.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 07:19 AM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline JD2720

  • Posts: 1025
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2018, 07:31 AM »
Normally the content of the different sets are normally clearly advertised..... just buy the systainer with all the domino sizes and bits and you will be all set :-).

And then go enjoy your new machine....

Festool could raise the price to $1600 and include all sizes of bits, but a lot of buyers may not want all of the sizes. Then those buyers will be posting here complaining about having to pay for bits they do not want.

Following your logic. Shouldn't Festool also provide a lifetime supply of the domino tenons? The tool is useless without the tenons.

When I buy a drill, it does not include every size & type of drill bit available, let alone a single drill bit.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2363
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2018, 08:23 AM »
Unquestionably, the 700 plus the add on set with all the cutters and tenons is expensive. Robbery implies coercion and nothing gained in return. Buying the Domino is a choice.

We have to decide if we want/need the tool and then if it’s worth the money. The Domino system is unique, but wood has been joined for centuries without this tool.

I decided to wait until I had a job that would justify the cost before buying. I wasn’t coerced and I wasn’t robbed. And, I smile every time I use the 700.

Birdhunter

Offline TXFIVEO

  • Posts: 227
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2018, 09:20 AM »
It was a hard pill for me to swallow when I first bought the 700...but after about 30 jobs using it on large doors I would say the $1500 has generated about $15,000 in profit SO FAR...so obviously it’s been well worth it FOR ME...now for a hobbyist using it every now and then, I would have to think that one out.

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 169
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2018, 12:54 PM »
As I read this thread it does make me think of something that I wish Festool would improve on. If they choose to package this tool with only the 12mm bit OK, I get it. The part I don’t understand is why they don’t include a small sample pack of tenons. The same thing on sanders, jig saws, etc.. Why on earth wouldn’t they want to include a small sample pack of their supplies that are applicable to that particular tool. It makes no sense to me. They make great sandpaper for example. Why wouldn’t you want people to try it? I bought a Festool sander and it came with one sheet of Granat 80 grit. Why on earth wouldn’t they include five or six more sheets going up into the higher grits along with a little flyer that lists all of the accessories available for that tool (both consumable and non-consumable). Also, if you buy an expensive tool from my tool company I would want you to have a small amount of supplies that come with it so that you can test it right away and get excited about it. The example that comes to mind is the Kreg jig. When you buy one it comes with a small little bag of a screw assortment and a few plugs so that you can get a taste of what they offer.

Offline zapdafish

  • Posts: 482
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2018, 01:06 PM »

My guess would be additional abusers of the 30 day return policy. Buy a tool, use the consumables, return it. Then they need to restock it for refurb sale. At least this way user has to buy consummables.
CT22, TS55, Kapex, RO150, Domino, RS 2 E

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 169
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2018, 01:27 PM »
@zapdafish - I get it but consumables are profitable and Festool makes some good ones. Most people have a hard enough time paying $400 or $500 for a sander. They don’t want to drop another $200 or $300 on sandpaper right then. But if you got to try a sampler that came with your sander then you are hooked. It seems to me that the price of the sample pack (lost in returns) would pale in comparison to the lost revenue from people that use aftermarket consumables right from the beginning. I can’t speak for the EU but here in the US we have so many aftermarket alternatives so readily available and marketed in so many different sized packages that the temptations are everywhere.

Offline gunnyr

  • Posts: 147
    • https://www.instagram.com/compassfinecarpentry/
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2018, 02:22 PM »
At least Festool includes a good blade with their saws!  EVERY saw I have ever purchased, Delta, Dewalt, Powermatic, and Milwaukee I've had to purchase a blade for it because the one provided was junk. 
Semper Fi,
Jeff

TS 55 REQ|HKC 55|PSB 420|DF 500|PRO 5 LTD|ETS 150/3|RO 90|RO 150|OF 1400|MFK 700|LR 32|MFS 400/700|CXS (2)|PDC 18|DWC 18-4500|CT MIDI|CT 26|CT 48|MFT/3 (2)|VAC SYS-SET|DUO-SET|SYSLITE KAL II
US Marines - UK Wildcats - Cincinnati Reds

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1021
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2018, 04:05 PM »
I think they should throw in a dozend assorted 12mm dominos. I also agree on the sanders.
Actual cost would be <1€ but the impression on the buyer would be priceless.

The argument about people abusing it is moot, as the ones that actually do that would still do it (and are likely to use bad consumables that damange the machine, like the pad on the sanders, anyway).

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1538
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2018, 04:18 PM »
I don't understand this logic. The content of the set you purchased was clearly itemized. You knew in advance what you are buying. And you knew in advance what consumables will be needed. What is the problem?
I bought a car that costs even more. There was no winter tires and a year supply of gasoline included. Should I complain?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 04:24 PM by Svar »

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1021
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2018, 04:58 PM »
I don't understand this logic. The content of the set you purchased was clearly itemized. You knew in advance what you are buying. And you knew in advance what consumables will be needed. What is the problem?
This is a forum monitored by Festool employees, I read the OP as a suggestion.

And you were bad at bargaining for that car, usually one gets a set of winter tires and a full tank included - and pay way less than list price of the car - when driving a hard enough bargain (on every maker except Tesla: they do list price for everyone, including CEO, worldwide).

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5069
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2018, 05:38 PM »
... if nothing else this is false advertising at its finest IMHO...


I read it as a lot stronger than just a suggestion.  [smile]

Offline brentasmith

  • Posts: 6
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2018, 10:36 PM »
As Joe pointed out I did indeed misspeak... more like highway robbery that false advertising. Yes I can read, and yes one knows exactly what the tool includes and doesn't include... Depending on where you are making your Festool purchase, you may or may NOT know what all those little extras will add up to. My only Festool dealer is an Ace Hardware and they are far from a full service stocking dealer... I guess my point boils down to this Mr Festool, if I am willing to lay out $1500 for a tool that is no bigger than a loaf of bread, please meet me part way and let me feel like I just bought something of great value... instead of feeling like I just donated everything I had in my wallet and while I was removing the cash you took my shoes, socks and underwear, and when I got to my car the fuel was siphoned out... Remember guys not everyone is blessed to make money with their Festool's… some of us just like to use top quality stuff while creating furniture for our kids or one of a kind wooden pull toys for our grandchildren... contractors are NOT the only one's who count... If I owned a cabinet shop or was a finish carpenter I would own 2 of every tool Festool produces and NEVER complain about a single thing, I would be way to busy counting my cash... 

Offline brentasmith

  • Posts: 6
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2018, 10:40 PM »
You were correct in your assessment Mr Cheese... I misspoke.

... if nothing else this is false advertising at its finest IMHO...


I read it as a lot stronger than just a suggestion.  [smile]

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5069
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2018, 11:17 PM »
Well I can certainly understand you’re frustration. Perhaps a year ago, I purchased a DF 700 and was annoyed when it arrived with only a single 12mm cutter.  [sad]  However, I remembered that when I purchased the DF 500 about 7 years ago, it arrived with only a single 5mm cutter.

Just reflecting about these data points for a short time, it suddenly made sense. Why spend extra money for something you may never use? Had Festool included all 4 bits in the 700 package, it would have been an additional $200 on top of the $1500 sticker shock.

So at this point, if I need Dominos in the 4-10 range, I use the 500. If I need Dominos in the 12-14 range I use the 700. At this point I only own the 12 & 14 bits for the XL 700. If I really need the smaller bits for their extra depth capacity I will purchase them...but so far so good.

And [welcome] to the FOG.  [big grin]

Offline Hempstalk

  • Posts: 2
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2018, 12:16 PM »
If your American and your complaining about pricing I’m guessing you haven’t looked at what other countries are paying for the same tools. Here in Canada the 700 with all the goodies will run ya around $3000. I was able to find a used one and paid as much as a new one in the US. I did get 2 cutters though. Unfortunately both worn out. I bought my first Festool 15 years ago and the prices were staggering then. Nothing has really changed good tools cost good money. You’ll likely forget exactly what was paid after years of happy use. 

Offline Ben63

  • Posts: 7
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2018, 12:50 PM »
Just got the XL 700. Had the 500 for several years ago but had to sell it (buy 900€, sell 800). Bought both systainers with bisquits, along came the three missing routing bits. Trim stop and cross stop. The whole package was, with good discount, about 1500€. Now I have all I need for the XL.

How is the adapter to XL 700 to use 500 bits. Any difficulties?

Offline clark_fork

  • Posts: 272
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2018, 12:59 PM »
I am not ready to make the hurdle over the Domino 700 XL price point.

My strategy emphasizes patience:

It makes no sense that no  manufacturer has  figured out how to overcome the patent issues. Any day, an alternative may come on the market. There may be a different type of machine that will come available that will mimic a plunge router or even a CNC type solution.

I watch the Festool Recon site, E-Bay and Fog Classified for sales o both the 700 XL and bits as well as larger Dominos. From time to time even Craig's list is worth watching. Discounts on the 700XL are not much but any discount is worth consideration.

In the end, I may have a project that just justifies the cost and that will be it.  [eek]
Clark Fork

"A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths."  Stephen Wright

"straight, smooth and square" Mr. Russell, first day high school shop class-1954

" What's the good of it?" My Sainted Grandmother

"You can't be too rich, too thin or have too many clamps." After my introduction to pocket joinery and now the MFT work process

"Don't make something unless it is both made necessary and useful; but if it is both necessary and useful,
don't hesitate to make it beautiful." -- Shaker dictum

Offline Ben63

  • Posts: 7
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2018, 01:23 PM »


In the end, I may have a project that just justifies the cost and that will be it.  [eek]

I have a planer that costed about 10 000 €. Bought it as new in about year 2000. No big deal having a planer like that.
Now, I am lucky, bought missing Festool stuff for 11500€ (List price 15000) That makes my whole life a big difference.

Offline willworkforwood

  • Posts: 1
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2018, 08:05 PM »
I just purchased the 700 XL last week and got to making some chairs today.

Let me tell you, it's amazing.  I used two 10x80mm dominos in each joint and it worked like a dream.  I'm using a hybrid solution with joinery with this chair.  For the main joints where the chair seat meets the back chair legs, I'm hand cutting a mortise and tenon joint, and going to pin it as well  (where almost all of the pressure is going to be.) The rest of the joints are dual 10x80mms.  It takes me the same time to cut two M&T joints as it does to finish all the rest of the joinery in the chairs.

After the Domino 700, systainer, taxes, the Canadian Lee Valley took over $2800 CAN from me.  A big bullet to bite, but nothing I can't afford... just hurts.  But after using it for this project - I can truly say - The tool is absolutely amazing.  It takes a lot of time and is just a treat to use.

It's totally worth the pricetag, if:

1. you can afford it which saves time as a hobbiest and is just a treat to use.
or
2. you are in business


If you aren't making 8 dining room chairs with over 80 M&T joints in total, then maybe you can get away with continuing to cut them the old way... but this will save tons of time.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 08:12 PM by willworkforwood »

Offline John Stevens

  • Posts: 807
  • Ardmore, PA
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2018, 09:42 PM »
Robbery implies coercion and nothing gained in return. Buying the Domino is a choice. We have to decide if we want/need the tool and then if it’s worth the money.

Worth saying again for emphasis, IMO.  Thanks for the clarity, Birdhunter.
What this world needs is a good retreat.
--Captain Beefheart

Offline jzhu

  • Posts: 10
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2018, 11:01 PM »

After the Domino 700, systainer, taxes, the Canadian Lee Valley took over $2800 CAN from me.  A big bullet to bite, but nothing I can't afford... just hurts.  But after using it for this project - I can truly say - The tool is absolutely amazing.  It takes a lot of time and is just a treat to use.


You could save 8% tax if you bought Domino from ultimatetools.ca. It would hurt a little bit less.

I only buy Festool product at https://www.ultimatetools.ca/, pay 5% tax instead of 13% at Lee Valley.

James

 

Offline jjowen

  • Posts: 96
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2018, 12:56 AM »
I have been using the Domino 500 for a few years now. Had a big project so I borrowed my friend's 700 XL. Somehow the big beast is even easier to use.

I hope he forgets I have it.

Is this wrong?
Disclaimer: All posts after 12:00pm on Fridays (GMT+10) should be independently verified for relevance and veracity.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2363
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Domino 700 XL
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2018, 06:03 AM »
Buy a 700 for yourself. That way, you have the tool and keep a friend. I’d also buy your friend an extra 700 bit as a thank you for letting you borrow the tool.
Birdhunter