Author Topic: Domino 700/500 (Read 4831 times)

Motor · « **on:** June 20, 2018, 09:26 PM »

I'm contemplating the purchase of a Domino 700. Will the 8mm cutter/domino be too large for use on (19mm) 3/4" lumber? Can you centre the 700 cutter on (19mm) 3/4" stock? (For example face frames.) The supplier advises that Festool doesn't endorse the use of the Seneca adapter for smaller cutters on the 700 (and the supplier won't sell the adapter).

I was going to buy a 500 but I like the idea of larger and deeper dominos for heavier work like mitred hand rails etc. Open to suggestions. I can't see myself using a domino machine for smaller stock than 3/4".

Cheese · « **Reply #1 on:** June 20, 2018, 09:43 PM »

I guess it depends upon what you’re going to work on. If it’s 3/4” face frames and cabinetry, then the 500 works well. If it’s for full sized doors & gates, then the 700 comes out ahead.

If it’s both...then you need both.

Remember the recent new 8mm adjustable/removeable Domino was focused on 3/4” material.

mwolczko · « **Reply #2 on:** June 20, 2018, 09:46 PM »

I’ve done work on ¾” stock with the 700, but using the Seneca adapter for smaller tenons. There isn’t much meat either side of an 8mm tenon in ¾”.
I heartily recommend the 700 with the Seneca extras.

Cheese · « **Reply #3 on:** June 20, 2018, 10:01 PM »

Here are some photos of the new D8 Domino in action on I presume, 3/4" stock.

Birdhunter · « **Reply #4 on:** June 21, 2018, 06:01 AM »

I think I use a 5 mm or 6 mm bit on 3/4” plywood. Using an 8 mm bit would be very tricky. Getting it perfectly centered would require something like the Seneca spacer. Even perfectly centered there isn’t much wood left around the mortise. Blowing out the wood whilst inserting the tenons is definitely possible.

I use my 500 on wood thinner than 3/4” all the time.

My guess is that you will end up with both machines eventually. Which ever you buy first, the set with all the cutters and an assortment of tenons is a good decision. If you go with the 500, get back up 4mm and 5mm bits.

Cheese · « **Reply #5 on:** June 21, 2018, 08:04 AM »

The instruction manual for the new D8/50 Domino suggests a minimum panel thickness of 18mm solid wood or particle board.

https://www.festoolusa.com/service/owners-manuals

Just click on DF 500 Connectors.

Motor · « **Reply #6 on:** June 21, 2018, 08:54 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on June 20, 2018, 09:43 PM

I guess it depends upon what you’re going to work on. If it’s 3/4” face frames and cabinetry, then the 500 works well. If it’s for full sized doors & gates, then the 700 comes out ahead.

If it’s both...then you need both.

Remember the recent new 8mm adjustable/removeable Domino was focused on 3/4” material.

I may need both but can't afford both... especially with
all the accessories.

Cheese · « **Reply #7 on:** June 21, 2018, 09:49 AM »

Quote from: Motor on June 21, 2018, 08:54 AM

I may need both but can't afford both... especially with
all the accessories.

I hear you...I've had my 500 for the last 6-7 years and finally picked up a 700 last fall on the reconditioned tool sale.

ChuckM · « **Reply #8 on:** June 21, 2018, 10:25 AM »

Quote from: Motor on June 21, 2018, 08:54 AM

I may need both but can't afford both... especially with
all the accessories.

I can afford both, but I stick to my DF500 because I build mostly furniture pieces rather than doors or gates or anything that is too big for the DF500.

One time for a table project that I did want to use the longer dominoes. I had the option of borrowing an XL from a friend, but I ended up not doing so. Instead, I got the longer dominoes from him and used them in the table project as follows:

I mortised the table legs and post with my DF500 and then drilled the mortises deeper to accept the long dominoes. For a one-time job, the method worked seamlessly well.

That was the only time I needed an XL.

rmhinden · « **Reply #9 on:** June 21, 2018, 12:06 PM »

I have a Domino 700 XL and the Seneca Small Mortise kit. Plus the 4, 5, and 6mm 500 bits and matching sized dominos.

Overall I have been happy with this combination and have used it on 3/4" and 1/2" plywood. I have used the 8mm bit in 3/4" plywood without any issues, but it is on the big side. I have also used the 6mm bit and dominos on 3/4" plywood.

One issue I have had with this setup is the preset depth of the mortice doesn't match the domino when using a shallow depth mortice using the 500 bits in the face of a board. I solved this by making a spacer out of PVC tubing. This is described in the 500 supplemental manual, but works fine for the 700 XL. Took a while to get the right length, but works fine. I talked to Ryan at Seneca who suggested this idea. Great support from Seneca.

The other issue I have is that the support bracket is small when using the 700 on the face of a board. It works, but feels precarious, not much to hold onto. I plan to see if I can make a fixture that is bigger with a handle to make this a more secure operation. Has anyone else done this?

I hope this is helpful.

Motor · « **Reply #10 on:** June 21, 2018, 12:18 PM »

Very helpful.

To me it almost sounds like I need the 500 instead. I don't make doors and don't see a market for custom doors where I live. I would say that a 10mmx50mm domino would provide substantial support for a table leg or large railing connection. Primarily I would be using the domino in place of biscuits when joining mitred handrails and laminating 3/4 - 1" table tops. I'm hoping the domino system is more precise than my Porter Cable biscuit cutter (plate joiner), which has a tendency for mis-aligned biscuit holes.

I appreciate any advice.

Lou in DE · « **Reply #11 on:** June 21, 2018, 12:56 PM »

I had (still have actually) the Porter Cable unit and used it before I got the 500 a couple years ago - there is no comparison in accuracy or strength of course. I kept the PC to make slots to attach table tops - that's all it does anymore - I've had it for maybe 20 years. I have this phobia about selling off any old tools - it's a sickness.

Motor · « **Reply #12 on:** June 21, 2018, 01:02 PM »

Quote from: Lou in DE on June 21, 2018, 12:56 PM

I had (still have actually) the Porter Cable unit and used it before I got the 500 a couple years ago - there is no comparison in accuracy or strength of course. I kept the PC to make slots to attach table tops - that's all it does anymore - I've had it for maybe 20 years. I have this phobia about selling off any old tools - it's a sickness.

Thanks for the input. I know the feeling about old tools. I still have the nail pouch I bought when I was 18. 50 years later it's still in service - although the belt is stretched to the max!

Birdhunter · « **Reply #13 on:** June 21, 2018, 01:10 PM »

The Domino machines can do joinery of great accuracy, but there is the need for excellent technique. I’d suggest watching some videos and practicing on scrap. The New Brit Workshop and Halfinchshy both have excellent videos.

The projects you describe fall more into the 500 Domino range than into the 700’s range. Don’t forget the a strong vac is necessary to get good results.

Cheese · « **Reply #14 on:** June 21, 2018, 01:49 PM »

Quote from: Motor on June 21, 2018, 12:18 PM

I'm hoping the domino system is more precise than my Porter Cable biscuit cutter (plate joiner), which has a tendency for mis-aligned biscuit holes.

Not even close...it's comparing a Chevy to a Mercedes.

I went from that NOISY PC 557 jointer to the DF 500 and the very next day, I sold the 557. No regrets, I wouldn't take another 557 if it was given to me. You'll be amazed at the difference.

Gerald_D · « **Reply #15 on:** June 21, 2018, 02:03 PM »

I've had the DF500 since it was introduced in NA, and like @Cheese, I got a recon 700. The 500 still gets the majority of use, but I'm starting to use more 6/4 and 8/4 wood so the 700 no longer feels neglected. From what you stated, I'd recommend the 500- get 10% off on the vac by buying the set (if you don't have one already).

Regards,
Gerald

grbmds · « **Reply #16 on:** June 21, 2018, 02:25 PM »

I have both but use the DF500 the vast majority of the time. If you plan to do any projects that would use 4mm or 5mm Dominos I would recommend the DF500 and adding Dominos to the joint, where possible, if you need something more substantial than a 10 mm tenon. I find that the 700 is a little cumbersome on smaller projects because of its size and weight. A 10 mm tenon that works with the 500 is already quite substantial just not as long as the 10 mm Dominos that work with the 700.

I wouldn't use an 8mm tenon on 3/4" lumber as the amount of wood on either side of it (assuming it's centered exactly) would be below a 1/4". I would be concerned about break-out or possibly bulging after glue up. A 6mm works well; even a 5mm in some applications and the thickness of the tenon is more like the generally accepted formula for mortise and tenons; the tenon being no more than 1/3 of the thickness of the wood.

Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits · « **Reply #17 on:** June 21, 2018, 03:05 PM »

I would have to echo what most others have stated already. I was an early adopter of the Domino - thanks to a Festool dealer I did work for that handed me one back in 2004 or 2005 I think.

With the XL I was hesitating for a very long time but when a project "large enough" to warrant the purchase came up I bit the bullet. I like it a lot and it did a tremendous job - but it has only been used on three four projects. The 500 still gets most of the use and the other day while talking to a colleague that has both Dominos too we were thinking that one of us might as well sell the XL 700 and we could borrow it off each other. And buy something else to swap around, like the Conturo.

None of us would give up the DF500 though.

Recently I got the Lamello Zeta P for a project and love it - but it would not replace the Domino DF 500.

Motor · « **Reply #18 on:** June 23, 2018, 07:12 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on June 20, 2018, 09:43 PM

I guess it depends upon what you’re going to work on. If it’s 3/4” face frames and cabinetry, then the 500 works well. If it’s for full sized doors & gates, then the 700 comes out ahead.

If it’s both...then you need both.

Remember the recent new 8mm adjustable/removeable Domino was focused on 3/4” material.

Thanks everyone. I bought a 500. I will be using it with one of my Festool vacuums.

Cheese · « **Reply #19 on:** June 23, 2018, 10:07 AM »

Quote from: Motor on June 23, 2018, 07:12 AM

Thanks everyone. I bought a 500. I will be using it with one of my Festool vacuums.

After you get some driving time in, let us know your thoughts.

TXFIVEO · « **Reply #20 on:** June 23, 2018, 10:46 AM »

The old rule of get the biggest one possible and use it for the smaller jobs too is what I would follow. While I typically use it for large doors I do occasionally use it for furniture where the 500 is needed. But having the ability of the 700 to do MOST of what the 500 can do (Seneca adapter, etc) it is a no brainer for me. The jump to the 700 would pay itself off in one good job.

Motor · « **Reply #21 on:** June 27, 2018, 06:39 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on June 23, 2018, 10:07 AM

Quote from: Motor on June 23, 2018, 07:12 AM
Thanks everyone. I bought a 500. I will be using it with one of my Festool vacuums.

After you get some driving time in, let us know your thoughts.

Will do!

Birdhunter · « **Reply #22 on:** June 27, 2018, 07:47 AM »

Smart move, but reserve a workshop space for the 700 you will add at some time.

Mario Turcot · « **Reply #23 on:** June 27, 2018, 09:06 AM »

@Motor the one tip I can give you from my own experience is about setup. Make sure you are comfortable with the tool and the position you adopt each time you bore a hole. The width selector is a nice feature but do not rely 100% on it to avoid deception

One more tip, plunge slow like very slow at the beginning. Depending of the wood density you will have to adjust. There is a very short learning curve just don't skip it.

Jim_in_PA · « **Reply #24 on:** June 27, 2018, 01:18 PM »

Quote from: Mario Turcot on June 27, 2018, 09:06 AM

One more tip, plunge slow like very slow at the beginning. Depending of the wood density you will have to adjust. T

^^ This is one of the most important tips that anyone can receive relative to using the Domino system. Precision comes from letting the cutter do its work without stress. I actually "tested" that out when I first got my 700XL and it's absolutely, spot-on true.

grbmds · « **Reply #25 on:** June 27, 2018, 02:31 PM »

Just a quick tip about centering and plunging in 3/4" that at least I found out about the hard way. The board you're plunging into must hang over the edge of the table or be clamped down on top of another board for clearance. If not, there isn't enough clearance for the bottom of the Domino joiner to center the slot top to bottom. The result will be a slot dangerously high on the edge of the board because the bottom end of the Domino will be resting on the table. Don't know if I explained clearly, and I suppose it seems obvious to some, but it wasn't to me (or at least I didn't think about it the first time and forgot one other time after not using the Domino for awhile while in a hurry).

Motor · « **Reply #26 on:** July 06, 2018, 06:47 AM »

Quote from: TXFIVEO on June 23, 2018, 10:46 AM

The old rule of get the biggest one possible and use it for the smaller jobs too is what I would follow. While I typically use it for large doors I do occasionally use it for furniture where the 500 is needed. But having the ability of the 700 to do MOST of what the 500 can do (Seneca adapter, etc) it is a no brainer for me. The jump to the 700 would pay itself off in one good job.

Well, I changed my mind. I got the 500 but exchanged it for the 700. I never used the 500, but once I had it in my hand and saw how small the cutters and dominos were (4 and 5 especially) I decided to go with the 700. I rarely make small projects and I just felt like the 700 would give me more versatility for bigger jobs in the long run. I also felt like it has a few features that are better than the 500. Just thought I'd let everyone know. I appreciate all the input. I may buy the Seneca adapter if I feel I need dominos smaller than 8mm. Will let everyone know once I start working with this tool.

Peter Parfitt · « **Reply #27 on:** July 06, 2018, 09:26 AM »

The DF700 can be used with the DF500 connector system. The DF700 can do a 10 mm cut height (at the centre of the cutter). It can also do a 15 mm and 25 mm depth of cut. Therefore the only difference is the use of a 25 mm depth of cut instead of the 28 mm cut when using the DF500. When doing a pair of opposing shelves into an upright it will be necessary to check the length of the two dominos that go in from either side at the middle of the joint.

The DF500 connector system can be used on panels down to 18 mm and so no problems should arise

Peter

James Carriere · « **Reply #28 on:** July 10, 2018, 08:03 PM »

Quote from: Mario Turcot on June 27, 2018, 09:06 AM

@Motor the one tip I can give you from my own experience is about setup. Make sure you are comfortable with the tool and the position you adopt each time you bore a hole. The width selector is a nice feature but do not rely 100% on it to avoid deception

One more tip, plunge slow like very slow at the beginning. Depending of the wood density you will have to adjust. There is a very short learning curve just don't skip it.

@Motor - to add to Mario's suggestion about technique and the short but necessary learning curve, I learned with deeper depths of cut with the 700 to hold the machine in place and pause for a half second after the cutter has finished its cut and has been extracted from the mortise to allow a moment for the CT to remove the remainder of the sawdust completely or your joints might not fully close on glue-up. Also, like several members have mentioned the Seneca adaptors work very well with the 700 and +1 that thinner stock must overhanging the edge of your bench so the machine is cutting at the planned depth in the workpiece.

Mario Turcot · « **Reply #29 on:** July 10, 2018, 08:18 PM »

Quote from: James Carriere on July 10, 2018, 08:03 PM

with the 700 to hold the machine in place and pause for a half second after the cutter has finished its cut and has been extracted from the mortise to allow a moment for the CT to remove the remainder of the sawdust completely or your joints might not fully close on glue-up.

Also true with the DF 500