Author Topic: Domino XL DF 700  (Read 111566 times)

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Offline Phil P

  • Posts: 8
Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #120 on: August 07, 2011, 03:50 PM »
That was bad news (thefestool vid). I've already bought the missus a Systainer T-Loc size 1 and fitted it out as a handbag, and now she's complaining that I was shouting "open the box, open the box" at the video....... 

As to size is not important? Who do they think they are kidding. When will the 110 volt (UK) version be out?

Good point, it should do a 65mm mortise lock no problem.  The bigest cutter is only 14mm though, a lock needs 16mm does it not ?  Could do it from both sides though.
Waste of time. By the time you've done that I'd have chopped out two or three with my Souber DBB. Lock chopping is a numbers game if you intend to make money at it

who knows, even improve it with two chisels at both end wich square off the mortise. then you will have something revolutionary that every shop in the world will need to posses.
Unfortunately the French did that years ago - called it an Alternax mortiser - then oscillating end chisels that is!

somewhat like sawstop technology, it's a fantastic invention. but the saws they use it on are quite obsolete when you are used to european sliding panelsaws.
Too true! Especially that cr***y Biesmeyer fence system

2) can't see the UL passing it with that cutter exposed on the top like that.....
Why not? They allow Makita chain mortisers and they're a lot more scary

Regards

Phil




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Offline Coen

  • Posts: 365
Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #121 on: August 09, 2011, 07:29 PM »
Picture of the Systainer:




The Belgians spilled the beans on the new Festool tools btw. Don't know if they link to this page, but if you search for last year's promotions ('festool najaarscampagne 2010) in google and take the festool.be result and you change '2010' to '2011' in the URL, you'll end up here:
http://www.festool.be/NL/Campaings/Pages/Autumn2011.aspx

For The Netherlands / Belgium it will be €963 excluding VAT (19% for The Netherlands, 21% for Belgium), supplied with 20 tenons 12x100mm, 12mm cutter, guidestop, etc. Wouldn't be surprised if it would get up to a 1000 in 2012. In Germany it's probably a few bucks cheaper, as is everything
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 04:48 PM by Coen »

Offline jmbfestool

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #122 on: August 25, 2011, 05:05 PM »
Domino XL in UK    £770.00 + vat ????
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Offline woodguy7

  • Posts: 2727
Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #123 on: August 25, 2011, 06:08 PM »
Not for me thanks !
If its made of wood, i can make it smaller.
Shirt size medium
p.s- ive started reading these too

Offline Timtool

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #124 on: August 26, 2011, 06:29 AM »
i want one now! someone just ordered me 34 african hardwood garden doors, this could make me win big cash!
when is it out??
BR10, MFK 700, OS 400, ETS EC 150/3, KA 65-plus,TS55R, CT22E, CTLmini, CTL MIDI, CTM 36 AC HD, Kapex KS120, ETS125, ETS150/5, RO150, RO90, CXS-set, T-15+3 set, DTS400, OF900, OF1010, OF2200 set, Carvex PS420 EBQ set, EHL 65, SSU 200, Centrotec installer set, LR32-sys, FS-800, FS-LR-1400x2, domino 500+domino sys, domino 700 XL, Surfix-sys, Sys-box 1, Syslite, LEV-350, Sys-box,MFTB/1-2-4... MFTC, MFSC

Offline bellchippy

  • Posts: 173
Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #125 on: August 27, 2011, 07:24 AM »
Here is the link to Autum specials in Germany
http://www.festool.be/FR/Campaings/Documents/Autumn%202011/Autumn2011_wood_NL.pdf
Includes Domino xl and new impact driver.

Maybe someone can translate it

Offline Festoller

  • Posts: 234
Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #126 on: August 27, 2011, 08:39 AM »
darn where do you guys find this stuff! Great find!

Does this oficially come out in September or October?

I am not that excited about the new Autum offer, since I am not interested in the Domino XL, but I am glad there is a basic version of the new impact driver! Although I wouldn't buy one before I havn't tested it personally.
The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be. -Douglas Adams-

Offline William Herrold

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #127 on: August 27, 2011, 09:07 AM »
Here is the link to Autum specials in Germany
http://www.festool.be/FR/Campaings/Documents/Autumn%202011/Autumn2011_wood_NL.pdf
Includes Domino xl and new impact driver.

Maybe someone can translate it



The linked PDF is in Dutch, but the picts and numbers tell most of the story.
I for one, think the XL will be a winner in the niche it belongs in. Even though I own a Domino 500 set, and a Leigh FMT, the 16mm/ 70mm capability of the XL is TEMPTING....as a door builder.   
"I don't believe anything, but I have a lot of suspicions"
 R.A.W.

Offline fritter63

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #128 on: August 27, 2011, 11:01 AM »


The linked PDF is in Dutch, but the picts and numbers tell most of the story.
I for one, think the XL will be a winner in the niche it belongs in. Even though I own a Domino 500 set, and a Leigh FMT, the 16mm/ 70mm capability of the XL is TEMPTING....as a door builder.   

I've kept my FMT around simple because it can do 1/2" tendons which the Domino can't. The other reason is the quad tendon feature. This last is cool, but I have to be realistic and wonder how much I'll ever need it. I used it on new table I've been building (will post a thread about) but it worked only because the because the base is massive (3x5 oak "timbers"). That's a rare dimension in furniture, and I'm not sure I'll ever do it again. Also, the FMT was a pain to do with this size lumber, and the DX 700 would have made it easier, although maybe not in a quad configurations.

So I with that DX coming, I find myself debating if I should sell the FMT and just get the DX for doing larger tenon work. I suppose you could argue that the "real" tendons made by and FMT are stronger than floating tenons, but it's a weak argument, especially given recent FWW tests on joint strengths and the fact that it's not the M&T that usually breaks.

So.. starting the FAJP (Festool Acquisition Justification Phase)

Offline JD2720

  • Posts: 1023
Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #129 on: August 27, 2011, 11:07 AM »
Here is the link to Autum specials in Germany
http://www.festool.be/FR/Campaings/Documents/Autumn%202011/Autumn2011_wood_NL.pdf
Includes Domino xl and new impact driver.

Maybe someone can translate it



The linked PDF is in Dutch, but the picts and numbers tell most of the story.
I for one, think the XL will be a winner in the niche it belongs in. Even though I own a Domino 500 set, and a Leigh FMT, the 16mm/ 70mm capability of the XL is TEMPTING....as a door builder.   

Door building is why I would like one also. Then I could would no longer need my foot feed hollow chisel mortiser.
  

Offline Nigel

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #130 on: August 27, 2011, 12:09 PM »

Offline William Herrold

  • Posts: 448
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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #131 on: August 28, 2011, 05:44 AM »


The linked PDF is in Dutch, but the picts and numbers tell most of the story.
I for one, think the XL will be a winner in the niche it belongs in. Even though I own a Domino 500 set, and a Leigh FMT, the 16mm/ 70mm capability of the XL is TEMPTING....as a door builder.   

I've kept my FMT around simple because it can do 1/2" tendons which the Domino can't. The other reason is the quad tendon feature. This last is cool, but I have to be realistic and wonder how much I'll ever need it. I used it on new table I've been building (will post a thread about) but it worked only because the because the base is massive (3x5 oak "timbers"). That's a rare dimension in furniture, and I'm not sure I'll ever do it again. Also, the FMT was a pain to do with this size lumber, and the DX 700 would have made it easier, although maybe not in a quad configurations.

So I with that DX coming, I find myself debating if I should sell the FMT and just get the DX for doing larger tenon work. I suppose you could argue that the "real" tendons made by and FMT are stronger than floating tenons, but it's a weak argument, especially given recent FWW tests on joint strengths and the fact that it's not the M&T that usually breaks.

So.. starting the FAJP (Festool Acquisition Justification Phase)


For series production, The XL would not be able to touch the accuracy and repeatability of the FMT. The tendency for the domino machine to "walk" while boring, in my opinion, limits it's applications.  I've built many interior doors, and even exterior doors with 70mm deep X 12.7mm M/Ts in solid heartwood pine with my MFT.  No problem for medium sized exterior doors with 3 rails and mullion, or 4 rails sans mullion. Most of said doors were insulated with foam for weight savings and reduce stress on the joints.
 
"I don't believe anything, but I have a lot of suspicions"
 R.A.W.

Offline Dirk

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #132 on: September 06, 2011, 05:15 AM »

Offline fshanno

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #133 on: September 06, 2011, 01:15 PM »

For series production, The XL would not be able to touch the accuracy and repeatability of the FMT. The tendency for the domino machine to "walk" while boring, in my opinion, limits it's applications.  I've built many interior doors, and even exterior doors with 70mm deep X 12.7mm M/Ts in solid heartwood pine with my MFT.  No problem for medium sized exterior doors with 3 rails and mullion, or 4 rails sans mullion. Most of said doors were insulated with foam for weight savings and reduce stress on the joints.
 

That's why the XL needs a self centering clamping fence like those lock mortising rigs have.  If it had that it could achieve accuracy and repeatability similar to the FMT.  And why wait for the XL?  The current Domino needs a clamping self-centering fence.  Can you imagine a Domino with a couple of cam clamps like the FMT Pro?  How sweet would that be? 

But will Festool listen?  Not a chance.  Can someone translate "clamping, self-centering fence" into German for me?
The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Offline fritter63

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #134 on: September 06, 2011, 01:17 PM »
Can someone translate "clamping, self-centering fence" into German for me?

Gecenterclampinfencen

Offline fritter63

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #135 on: September 06, 2011, 01:21 PM »


That's why the XL needs a self centering clamping fence like those lock mortising rigs have.  If it had that it could achieve accuracy and repeatability similar to the FMT.  And why wait for the XL?  The current Domino needs a clamping self-centering fence.  Can you imagine a Domino with a couple of cam clamps like the FMT Pro?  How sweet would that be? 

But will Festool listen?  Not a chance.  Can someone translate "clamping, self-centering fence" into German for me?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but isn't this the same thing?

Domino Trim Stop

Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 960
Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #136 on: September 06, 2011, 07:07 PM »

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but isn't this the same thing?


No, the trim stop is a good accessory and I use it whenever I can but it's not what I had in mind.

What I had in mind was something like this....



This is a lock mortiser.  You can use it for mortises in M&T joinery, Gary Katz has one and he made a garden gate with large mortises in one of his videos.  Obviously this beast is not exactly what we want but it gives the general idea.  You can see the motor on two shafts just like a Domino.  Imagine an accessory fence with a couple of cam clamps that you clamp tight to the work piece exactly where you want it.  Then you slip the domino on and plunge.  This would give a high level of repeatable accuracy that you could have serious confidence in every time.  Certainly this would need to be an accessory and not everyone would want it.  but it would virtually guarantee excellent alignment. 

Another example is the Dowelmax.  Imagine an accessory fence system for the Domino that worked like the Dowelmax.  Accuracy, repeatability and excellent dust collection, a winning combination.

Now this kind of accuracy comes at a cost in time.  A clamping fence would be much slower, even than the trim stop.  But the beautiful part is that when you don't need super duper accuracy and want that good old Domino speed just pop on the standard fence and rock.

How is this not a good idea?
The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Offline fritter63

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #137 on: September 06, 2011, 07:22 PM »

This is a lock mortiser.  You can use it for mortises in M&T joinery, Gary Katz has one and he made a garden gate with large mortises in one of his videos.  Obviously this beast is not exactly what we want but it gives the general idea.  You can see the motor on two shafts just like a Domino.  Imagine an accessory fence with a couple of cam clamps that you clamp tight to the work piece exactly where you want it.  Then you slip the domino on and plunge.  This would give a high level of repeatable accuracy that you could have serious confidence in every time.  Certainly this would need to be an accessory and not everyone would want it.  but it would virtually guarantee excellent alignment. 

Another example is the Dowelmax.  Imagine an accessory fence system for the Domino that worked like the Dowelmax.  Accuracy, repeatability and excellent dust collection, a winning combination.

Now this kind of accuracy comes at a cost in time.  A clamping fence would be much slower, even than the trim stop.  But the beautiful part is that when you don't need super duper accuracy and want that good old Domino speed just pop on the standard fence and rock.

How is this not a good idea?

You're talking about "vertical" centering of the mortise (depth) as opposed to horizontal spacing which I think is already well handled by either the trim stop and the extension wings?

I guess that would be nice, but as long as you always register off the same face, I don't get the need. Unless it's repeatability (after moving the height setting) you're concerned about (ie, not infinite height adjustment on the fence). Maybe what would do it is the Incra Jig style "teeth" which force it to lock into 1/32" increments, thus ensuring repeatability.

Maybe we can get Incra to design an aftermarket fence for the Domino, it does slide off ya know!

Offline Ken Nagrod

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #138 on: September 06, 2011, 07:25 PM »
Ahh, the ridiculously overpriced Porter Cable lock mortiser.  I remember when it was priced around the same as a Domino, then soared past the price of an OF 2200, now approaching the Kapex zone.

Offline Ken Nagrod

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #139 on: September 06, 2011, 07:30 PM »
Maybe we can get Incra to design an aftermarket fence for the Domino, it does slide off ya know!


While I think Taylor Design Group is an excellent company, I don't see that happening for cost/profit reasons.

Offline fritter63

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #140 on: September 06, 2011, 07:36 PM »
Maybe we can get Incra to design an aftermarket fence for the Domino, it does slide off ya know!


While I think Taylor Design Group is an excellent company, I don't see that happening for cost/profit reasons.

You're right, I'll call Bridge City.....  [big grin]

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #141 on: September 06, 2011, 08:18 PM »
I have a low tech remedy.  How about setting your domino up to the mortises.  Slide it over the right most point.  Take a scrap of wood and clamp it so that the domino can't move more right.  Then repeat for the other side.  Lotta bucks saved.  In fact if you do the same sizes regularly you could make a U shaped template and tack it to the workpiece.

Not busting your chops, just trying to offer economy to the situation.

Peter

Offline greg mann

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #142 on: September 06, 2011, 10:29 PM »
I tend to agree with peter on this. Or put another way, the beauty of the Domino concept is that you really don't need to lock the tool to the work. The amount of force needed to hold the tool in place is quite proportional to the speed at which you plunge and the forethought you put into having good technique. Case in point: I am working on an Ipe deck and have used the Domino in a few spots for rail Joinery. This wood is twice as dense as white oak yet I have had no problem milling precise mortises as long as my techniques were sound.

My experience is somewhat different from others. Maybe I have been lucky but I have never had a problem with plunging too slowly. A slow plunge let's the tool nibble lightly as it progresses as opposed to possibly wandering under the forces of too heavy a cut. The lock mortiser needs to be positively clamped because of the relatively deep passes it takes (at least deep compared to a Domino).
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Jesse Cloud

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #143 on: September 06, 2011, 11:42 PM »
The domino needs a clamping strategy.  We need to be able to clamp onto varied surfaces.  Many of my mortises go into curved surfaces.  Many of the mortises intersect with another mortise from the other face - so centering is useless.

Just give us two flat spaces that will accept clamps - we can go from there...

Offline fshanno

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #144 on: September 07, 2011, 10:15 AM »
The domino needs a clamping strategy.  We need to be able to clamp onto varied surfaces.  Many of my mortises go into curved surfaces.  Many of the mortises intersect with another mortise from the other face - so centering is useless.

Just give us two flat spaces that will accept clamps - we can go from there...

Bless you, bless you.  I think I'm going to cry.  Just a minute......   I'm okay now. 

The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Offline MadViking

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Re: Domino XL DF 700
« Reply #145 on: September 08, 2011, 09:13 PM »
Can someone translate "clamping, self-centering fence" into German for me?

Gecenterclampinfencen


 [thumbs up]

On a side note I think it's terrible that Festool has come out with this new Domino XL. Just as I thought I wouldn't need to buy any more tools for quite some time, Festool comes along and ruins my plans. I'm obviously going to have to get one, but then I'll hardly have money left for food. Guess I'll have to eat dog food until 2012  ;D

Would be nice to see what people end up making with their XL besides doors. I have a lot of furniture in mind.
CXS, Rotex RO 90 DX, Rotex RO 150, ETS 150/3, RTS 400, EHL 65, Carvex PS 400, Kapex KS 120 UG-Set, Precisio CS 70 EB-Set, Domino DF 500, OF 1010, OF 2200, CMS, CMS-OF, CMS-PS, CMS-MOD-BS 120, MFT/3, TS 55, FS-PA, FS 1400/2-LR32 x2, LR 32-SYS, FS-SYS/2, Cleantex CTL 26 with boom arm - feel free to PM me if you have questions about any of these