Author Topic: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?  (Read 40121 times)

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Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2015, 11:10 AM »
Henrik,

Thank you for your reply.  I found your comments regarding Festool's build quality and service very surprising.  I only have three Festool tools (Domino DF500, TS 55 REQ and Carvex PS 420) and all of them have been excellent machines. I have not read of people having Festool service problems here in the U.S., but I have read several negative comments about Mirka service here.  I'm wondering if the main difference in service is our respective locations.

In any event, I genuinely appreciate your feedback.

Thank you,

Steve Rice

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Offline clark_fork

  • Posts: 272
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2015, 02:09 PM »
Mellow Yellow

The Mirka arrived and I could not be more pleased. I don't think it has been mentioned that the Mirka Systainer fits the Festool Systainer.

The hand grip is comfortable, there is little vibration and compared to my old Bosch, a pleasure to use. I like the straight forward plug in. My Midi hose fit easily. The variable speed is a great feature. There is an on/off switch in addition to the paddle. 

I have to get  used to the paddle. It seemed a little light and I will worry about dropping from any height.

I have hearing aids so a word to wise about sound level before it is too late. The Mirka is quiet but still please always use hearing protection.

So far, I am happy as a clam with my Mirka DEROS.

Tool Nut was out of stock so I purchased via Amazon Prime for the $595.00 advertised price.




Mellow Yellow meets Soylent Green



Before and After The Bosch was a vibrating viper.
Clark Fork

"A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths."  Stephen Wright

"straight, smooth and square" Mr. Russell, first day high school shop class-1954

" What's the good of it?" My Sainted Grandmother

"You can't be too rich, too thin or have too many clamps." After my introduction to pocket joinery and now the MFT work process

"Don't make something unless it is both made necessary and useful; but if it is both necessary and useful,
don't hesitate to make it beautiful." -- Shaker dictum

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2015, 06:53 PM »
Henrik,

Thank you for your reply.  I found your comments regarding Festool's build quality and service very surprising.  I only have three Festool tools (Domino DF500, TS 55 REQ and Carvex PS 420) and all of them have been excellent machines. I have not read of people having Festool service problems here in the U.S., but I have read several negative comments about Mirka service here.  I'm wondering if the main difference in service is our respective locations.

In any event, I genuinely appreciate your feedback.

Thank you,

Steve Rice

Really?  ???
There are bunch on Carvex, the routers, rails bowed, track-saws not square... etc.

Granted complaints are about the tools, and the good tools end up being posts of pictures of finished projects more than raves about the tools.


Back to the yellow sander, it has a formula 1 look to it with the low center of gravity (CoM).


Just to round out the color pallet - The red EVA150 seems worth a look as well.
The main reason I would be considering the yellow Mirka (Over the red one) is ergonomics and weight. (As the other features seem about '==')

Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2015, 04:55 PM »
Clark Fork: it is nice to have some mellow yellow in the midst of all soylent green - had a nice chuckle over that.
Glad you took the plunge. Easier to spot the systainer too... :D

Holmz: Yes, ergo and weight, all other things being == .

Steve Rice: you are welcome! Mirka is not that common over here so by default service is harder to find. You have to go through your dealership and I find the dealerships are often the bottleneck of customer service. I have good report with Mirka dealership and excellent report with Festool dealership. Bosch sales and tech reps are fantastic but service is not as good, over here. But the dealership covers for me on both Festool and Bosch. The dealership often registers the Festool machine for us in Sweden but I always make sure they DON'T so I can check the machine before registering it and if it is faulty (remember those five lemons) I simply hand it back and try another unit until I am pleased and then I register and feel like I am covered by the Festool insurance should something happen further down the line.

I was surprised to learn about Festool shortcomings myself a few years ago but now I know that they are real and there is an abundance of Festool complaints regarding some of the tools and tool accessories. Don't mention the Jacobs chuck. ;)

The Festool machines that _are_ working as advertised are fantastic. Under my signature you will find what I use - not even all Festools I currently own and/or have used aren't listed. Some of the tools are stand outs, like the OFK500, OF1010 and the DF500 and some of the screwdriver/drills. I would not exchange them for anything.

I think Festool has lost some of the mojo over the last couple of years. Competition has been catching up on the bread and butter machines and service, innovation and build quality on new products has gone down. Festool superb build quality is a myth. I am not saying that they are worse than any other brand I just find them slightly behind some of the competition. I have had a fairly equal share of (Blue, not green) Bosch and Festool machines over the years and I have had ONE Bosch dud and five Festool duds.  I don't trust the electronics on the tools as much as I would like to.

But I am still a Fan, although a seasoned Fan. :)


I am glad you are happy with the Carvex, I was disappointed with mine and went back to Bosch (GST 18V Li barrel grip) which serves me better. I went past the return period with the Festool, trying hard to like it but every time I reached for the Bosch I thought "this one is simply better for me". 

Tools are exchangeable and there is no single brand that covers all bases and though I find that that I often post to critique tools I never do that talk down a brand, it is simply telling it like it is mixed with the frustration of paying for high end gear that turns out to be mid tier, at best.  I could mix it up with some praise for the great machines but I honestly expect high end wood working tools to work great, not just good.

With Festool I have been on/off over the years but I am neck deep in the system now and that makes me even more disappointed if the tools / new releases don't fit me/meet my requirements.  Especially now with battery tools maturing to the point of really replacing corded tools.   If any other brand does that it does not bother me that much if I haven't invested in a system. Makes sense?
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2015, 02:31 PM »
Clark,

Congrats on your new Mirka Deros.   Did you get the 5" or the 6"?

I understand that in Europe Mirka offers a Deros package with both 5" and 6" base pads. Do you know if the U.S. version can accept both base pads as well? I'm guessing the sander is the same whether you purchase the 5" or the 6" version and just the base pads are different.  Does that sound right to you?

Thanks and best of luck with your new purchase. 

Offline sae

  • Posts: 842
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2015, 02:36 PM »
US one doesn't.

Never found a clear explanation on why, either.

Offline teocaf

  • Posts: 598
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2015, 03:51 PM »
yeah, let's not forget Kate Hudson and Kate Bosworth...

nice looking Mirka, Clark.  I'm looking for one of those myself in the coming months.  Let us know how it holds up.  Shop looks like....well, let's just say that I'm not making a connection between it and tools that come with a super nice vac and in containers that makes organization a breeze.  On the plus side, you probably get some great exercise jumping through the obstacle course...

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2015, 08:01 PM »
1)
Henrik which is more powerful, I am looking for the answer on which is more powerful. If you had to hog material and couldn't reach for another sander between the two which would win?

"I chose the ETS EC for the Plug it option as I use it at a work station in the work shop. I can't plug it convert the Mirka Deros. If I could I would never have bought the ETS EC as I think the Mirka is better, ergonomically and finish quality is equal.

2) So you think the Mirka is better, but WHY - other than feel? Your comments really don't mention power, swirl marks etc.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2015, 02:47 AM »
Almost all sanders do the job. The 45$ 5" Bosch sands just fine for swirmarks and power.

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2015, 12:11 PM »
Almost all sanders do the job. The 45$ 5" Bosch sands just fine for swirmarks and power.

All sanders dont do the job, not even close. If they did zero people would pay 600.00 for a sander!  I do woodworking for a living and if my RO broke I would have to buy a new one that day, not use my little 5" palm sander. The little 5" Bosch is a toy compared to an ETS 150 or RO 150. And the 45.00 Bosch version has ZERO power and it isn't worthy of this thread and neither is the Festool ETS 125 for that matter. That sander is simply in  a different category.

I'll await Henriks or any other person response that has actually used these two sanders.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 12:14 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 768
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2015, 03:32 PM »
Dovetail, I tried the EC125 at the AWFS and found out Festool has finally come to the party with a powerful 5" sander. I was talking to Steve Bace at the booth and he had an 8/4 piece of maple with a very rough edge, was pleasantly surprised at how the sander knocked the edge down smooth in no time with 100P Granat. I also tried to stall it but it just kept going. IMHO a very nice sander. Couldn't find anyone selling/demoing the Deros at the show. Also heard some disturbing things regarding service of the Mirka Ceros and how often they breakdown. This was from someone that sells both Festool and Mirka whose opinion I trust.

John

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2015, 03:03 AM »
@Dovetail65
I have a UVA 115e, I do prefer it to the Bosch in very way. But say that it leaves swirls or do not sand is a misnomer. Yes It is slow and yes it vibrates, but it sands the wood just fine.
That was the context of the question which I was answering.

Much like saws working well when the blade is good. The Bosch with a good pad is mechanically more similar to other sanders in terms of what happens between the pad and wood than dissimilar.

Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2015, 03:15 PM »
Dovetail:

I would say that they are fairly close and I would not think of them as "aggressive" sanders. They are not digging down like a Rotex but with a coarse grit they can remove / strip down a surface quickly.

I have not done any side to side comparisons sanding the same surface size and material at the same time. I feel a little less fatigued with the Mirka if I have done lots of sanding and I still prefer the Deros for sanding between coats. I do some HVLP spraying and I was introduced to the Deros by a colleague (who is very very good finish spray painter). When I do finishing touches on delicate surfaces I feel more in control with the Deros. I also had to strip down a surface (table, two layers of spray paint) very quickly and the Deros made swift work of it and left a spray paint ready surface immediately.

As for build quality I have not heard much about problems with Deros machines and our machines are used daily. The previous Ceros I know very little about so I can't speak for the build quality of those. I judge machines based on model performance and not brand history.   

Still like - but don't love - the ETS EC 150 and still prefer the Deros. We have quite a range of sanders in the shop and I would say that the two stand out machines are Rotex 150 and the Deros. My Bosch GEX Turbo was stolen on a job site and the person who borrowed it from me bought me a new Rotex 150 as a replacement.  [big grin] I think the Bosch is a very good machine and has lasted me very well with rough sanding but the Rotex is a bit better.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2015, 04:22 PM »
Thanks, I too find my Rotex 150 still my favorite sander.

I cant believe I still use my original Rotex 150 from when I first joined the forum and have used it 2 hours plus 5 days a week since. That's over 7 years! Can it really be that long? I need to pull out the receipt, that's hard to believe.

Ill go with the Mirka. I can't wait to get it.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 04:25 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 768
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2015, 05:49 PM »
Henrik I might have missed it but what voltage do yours tools/sanders run on.

John

Offline sae

  • Posts: 842
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2015, 06:55 PM »
All of Europe is 220v. Only the UK nannystate makes everyone use 110v on jobsites. Workshops are still 220v.

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2015, 07:51 PM »
Does anyone know if you can switch between the 5" and 6" base pads on the U.S. Versions of the Deros?

Offline Dovetail65

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    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2015, 08:12 PM »
No for some reason in the US we can't.

Mirka offers  the DEROS in a 5" and 6" with 5mm stroke and a 6" with 2.5mm stroke and none look to be able to use both sizes. I have searched their US website and there is zero about using 5" and 6".

It appears the CEROS version uses a 5/16" threaded attachment so other pads should be able to be used. I am still reading up on the DEROS and how that works.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 08:17 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2015, 01:26 AM »
...
Mirka offers  the DEROS in a 5" and 6" with 5mm stroke and a 6" with 2.5mm stroke and none look to be able to use both sizes. I have searched their US website and there is zero about using 5" and 6".
...

There at least 3 models or Deros, 5", 6", and the one that is both 5/6" in 220v only".
There is also 2.5, 5-mm and maybe a 7 or 8-mm strokes.

And i think that the Ceros is still largely available in 220v.

There are even models in the 32-mm and 75-mm sizes.???
They only have Sandra and vacs, no Kapex, nor Domino.

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2015, 11:17 AM »
Like many others, I have scoured the Mirka website, and the internet in general, in an attempt to find additional information on switching the base pads on the Deros between the 5" and 6" pads on the U.S. version.  Today, I called the "contact us" number on Mirka's North American website and finally got some definitive answers...

I was told that the current U.S. versions of the Deros cannot change the base pads because of balancing issues related to the weight of the pads.  The good news, however, is that Mirka is currently working on a dual pad version of the Deros for the U.S. market.  It will be a 6" Deros that will also accept a heavier 5" base pad.  The bad news is that they could not provide me with any time frame as to when this new product will be released.

I am very eager to get a 6" sander for larger furniture projects, but I am currently heavily invested in 5" Abranet, so a dual pad sander would be the perfect solution for me. Looks like my old DeWalt ROS with the Mirka base pad will have to last me a while longer...

Thanks again to all of you who have responded to my questions regarding this.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2015, 07:38 PM »
Or just buy it out of Finland now, and get a 110 -> 220v transformer.

Offline Benjamin

  • Posts: 171
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2015, 08:41 PM »
I bought the 6" Mirka sander and a additional 5" pad and switched it no prob

Didn't notice a big deference in vibration or balancing ( there's a way of switching the
Weight in the sander as they supply the additional weights )

Amazing sander, super quite vs the rotex

It's like a ETS on steroids

I have a ETS and it's a totally different sander

WAY more powerfull

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #52 on: July 31, 2015, 10:58 PM »
I currently have several 220 volt outlets in my shop, both 30 amps and 15 amps. I realize this may sound like a stupid question, but (aside from the plug) is 220 in the U.S. the same as 220 in Europe? Would the European Deros actually work on a 220 line in the U.S.?

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2015, 11:10 PM »
I believe I just found an answer to my own question: it appears U.S. Electricity is 60 Hz whereas European electricity is 50 Hz, so Euro tools will not run here without some kind of transformer specifically designed for that purpose.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2015, 12:33 AM »
Most of the Eu tools are "Universal" so they operate both 50H and 60Hz.
It is usually worse to fee 50Hz to a 60Hz motor than the other way around.
So it says "Universal" anywhere, then it handles both.

US 220v versus Eu 230v.
Technically the US 220 has the "A" and "B" both sourcing current. When A is high then B is low, so measureing voltage between them you get 220v. If you measured the Voltage at A or B referenced to ground each side would only be 120v.

Eu 230 is sourcing at one of the pins and the other is neutral. Remember the US both are live at 1/2 the voltage.
If you measure between pins A & B they measure 220v/230v (or 240v in Australia).

From the perspective of the tool it doesn't know and it doesn't care. It just works.
All the Eu tools I have do not have a ground running to them. They are insulated or (double insulated), and they are all "Universal".

The most straight forward would be to contact Mirka USA and see if they can bring in an Eu model and whether Mirka confirms the "Universal" 60-Hz.

They are not any general cheap transformers that change the frequency, mostly old school where they change the voltage.

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #55 on: September 01, 2015, 02:10 PM »
Just received an email from the Tool Nut.  They are taking pre-orders for the ETS EC sander priced at $385.00 for the 5" and $485 for the 6" version.  Both sanders will be available October 1st.

Offline Pizza Steve

  • Posts: 146
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #56 on: September 01, 2015, 05:56 PM »
Like many others, I have scoured the Mirka website, and the internet in general, in an attempt to find additional information on switching the base pads on the Deros between the 5" and 6" pads on the U.S. version.  Today, I called the "contact us" number on Mirka's North American website and finally got some definitive answers...

I was told that the current U.S. versions of the Deros cannot change the base pads because of balancing issues related to the weight of the pads.  The good news, however, is that Mirka is currently working on a dual pad version of the Deros for the U.S. market.  It will be a 6" Deros that will also accept a heavier 5" base pad.  The bad news is that they could not provide me with any time frame as to when this new product will be released.

Hmm... I think that 5"/6" dual pad compatible Mirka would be worth the wait.  I would have replaced/upgraded my ETS 150/3 with an EC model if it supported multiple sized pads.

Do the EC 150 and EC 125 have the same 400W motor in them now?  If so, wouldn't that make the pads theoretically compatible with either sander?

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2015, 01:28 PM »
I agree that the Deros 5"/6" dual base pad combination is preferable, but who knows when we'll see it in North America. The Mirka rep had no information on any ETA.

I believe the ETS EC 5" and 6" models do have the same 400W brushless motor, but I have no idea if the base pads are interchangeable. I guess there might be a balance issue, but that's just a guess on my part.

I definitely prefer Mirka Abranet sanding discs over conventional sandpaper, so I'm wondering if the Mirka Abranet pad protector will line up with the dust collection holes in the ETS EC 6" so I could use Abranet discs with the ETS EC.  Anyone know about that? 

Thanks

Offline jcp2wood

  • Posts: 48
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2015, 03:20 PM »
i have purchased 5 seperate mirka deros 6" 650 sanders, each one had a problem,
they all stopped working after moderate use, or if it stopped working at 10000rpm.
luckily i bought them from amazon, so kept swapping them. the 6" pad mirka provides
is not well balanced and each pad is a different weight and spinning at 10000rpm, they
would get wobbly and stop itself. there is also the stop if too hot problem, i had two
do that for about 2-5 days of purchase and then never turn on again.
i have called mirka in ohio and they swear up and down there is no problem, never heard of
such issue. well i said i bought from amazon, so within 30 days, each bad unit goes back
and funny thing, none of them ever showed on amazon warehouse, which means all
went back to mirka to get repaired.

mirka deros has one advantage, sander is light, so if doing above the head work, work at odd angles,
this is the go to unit, but cant work at 10000rpm, 9000 rpm, 8000 rpm for long, not a selling point.

mirka deros with the festool sandpaper leaves alot of dust as the festool sandpaper does not
have all the suction openings that the pad provides.

i am ordering the ets ec 150 because after 5 mirka deros, and none function, its done.
the ets ec 150 has a slow down speed if wobbly or out of balance feature, the mirka is shut down
if wobbly, there is a difference, imho.


Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2015, 05:07 PM »
Very disappointing to hear about 5 bad units in a row.  I've read a number of stories about people having problems with Mirka sanders and their terrible customer service department. 

It appears that everyone on this forum who has used both the Deros and the ETS EC, prefers the Deros, and I'd like to get one, but stories like yours are keeping me on the fence...