Author Topic: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?  (Read 40167 times)

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Offline DirtyOldMan

  • Posts: 31
ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« on: June 05, 2015, 01:45 AM »
Considering purchasing another finishing sander and can't decide between the two. Many people have stated that the Mirka was in a different league compared to the non EC ETS. I guess my question is if the new ETS EC is as good as the Deros?

At the moment the bulk of my sanding is done with a Metabo SXE450 which performs very well but ergonomically flawed for non horizontal work. Mostly a weight issue but also difficult to control single handed. Also will be acquiring a Rotex 90 very soon, not sure if that should affect my choice.

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Offline sae

  • Posts: 842
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2015, 02:05 AM »
If you've ever used an air sander with the paddle control, the Mirka will come closest to replicating that experience. Once you've adapted yourself to that level of control, nothing else is worth considering.

Not really sure why Festool didn't consider a paddle control, they make air sanders themselves afterall...

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2015, 02:19 AM »
The thing that concerned me about Mirka in Australia was their tiny penetration and the prospect of warranty and support issues ... this is also a significant negative for me with Mafell. I don't fear this with Festool.

I haven't tried the EC's yet ... but I'll assume they're a worthwhile upgrade from the ETS150, which is a really good sander.

As with most things - trying them first hand is key.

I do like the idea of the new EC and the new integrated hose!

Offline DirtyOldMan

  • Posts: 31
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2015, 03:49 AM »
I have never used an air sander but have read numerous posts raving about them being much nicer to use.

Completely with you on the whole very limited support in oz aspect Kev. That is why I am hoping the EC is as good or nearly as good.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2015, 08:16 AM »
The first decent sander I got was a UVA 115 e.
But it is orbital and not 'random orbital', and there is  almost no vibation, and the speed goes pretty high.

Someone convinced me that the DEROS is the best for drywall or vertical and overhead.
I have not tried the Red verson of a RO, and I have no idea what the vibration is like on an ETS.

Howeve the ETS and DEROS both seem well regarded.
I was looking at a DEROS, but then decided that I do not really need an RO sander.
However I found a place in Finland will sell the DEROS 5/6" combo in 220v (which is the one you want), ext VAT for 560 Euro, and 55 Euro for shipping.
... the 5/6" DEROS combo comes in at 890 AUD - so under the magik amount.
But it is almost twice the Festool price.
The straing 5" or straight 6" was ~750 AUD from memory.

The DEROS or maybe CEROS, also comes in a /5 model and/or /8 model.
I have no idea whether that is improtant, but as you are in Brissy, maybe you do yacht building?

Offline Jimmy FineCut

  • Posts: 274
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2015, 08:24 AM »
I own a mirka deros and really rate it. I was going to buy the ets ec 150, but I tried one in my local store and found it bigger and not as comfortable in hand. The deros also felt lighter but not sure on the weights of the two sanders.

I also prefer the air paddle style like sae said.

Overall I find it a very comfortable, low noise, dust free sander when hooked up to a vac, o and it comes in a yellow systanier. [tongue]

I guess it comes down to which feels better to you in hand, so go check them out in a store if possible.

Jimmy

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2015, 12:10 PM »
Steve Johnson (the down to earth woodworker) did a comparison of the Deros, ETS and Bosch sanders.  You can find his youtube video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsNAx-H_xMs&feature=youtu.be

Looks like the Deros came out on top in all of his tests.  Unfortunately, Steve did not compare the dust collection on the various sanders, but his findings are interesting, none the less.

Offline jonny round boy

  • Posts: 3227
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2015, 01:38 PM »
Steve Johnson (the down to earth woodworker) did a comparison of the Deros, ETS and Bosch sanders.  You can find his youtube video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsNAx-H_xMs&feature=youtu.be

Looks like the Deros came out on top in all of his tests.  Unfortunately, Steve did not compare the dust collection on the various sanders, but his findings are interesting, none the less.

I just clicked on that & watched the first 30 seconds, and I seriously had to check that I hadn't accidentally altered my YouTube settings & turned the playback speed down...
Festoolian since February 2006

TS55R EBQ saw - CTL26 - CTL Mini - OF1400EBQ router - KS120 Kapex SCMS - ETS150/3 sander - RO90 sander - DF500 Domino - PDC18/4 drill - PSC420 jigsaw - OFK500 trimmer

Wish list (in no particular order!): Anything not listed above....

Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2015, 02:48 AM »
Dust extraction on the Deros is at least on par with Festool. At least. It is certainly no lesser.

I own and use both the Deros and the ETS EC 5. I actually sold my Deros since we have one permanently attached to a Vac in shop but should I do it all over again I would get the Deros.

I bought the ETS EC since I needed a light plug it connected sander at the work station and the Deros is not possible to fit a Plug It cable unless you are into serious modification.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2015, 06:06 AM »
...Looks like the Deros came out on top in all of his tests.  Unfortunately, Steve did not compare the dust collection on the various sanders, but his findings are interesting, none the less.

To be fair, Mirka has been doing sanders for years.
It would be pretty noteworthy is Festool could deliver a better sanding machine, but it does beg the question as to the R&D staff and funding that Bosch, Festool, Mirka etc devote funds towards.

As a kid I recall seeing men walking on the moon, and had a little astronaut jumpsuit that I wore out. At that time I pretty much had the impression that everything was invented and fully figured out. It was not until much later that I realised that science and technology are still advancing.

So I personally find it refreshing that we can debate whether a Mirka sander is better than a Festool sander... It is pretty much like debating whether a Maserati is better than a Ferrari, or whether Kate Blanchet is more stunning than Kate Winslet.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2015, 07:48 AM »
Steve Johnson (the down to earth woodworker) did a comparison of the Deros, ETS and Bosch sanders.  You can find his youtube video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsNAx-H_xMs&feature=youtu.be

Looks like the Deros came out on top in all of his tests.  Unfortunately, Steve did not compare the dust collection on the various sanders, but his findings are interesting, none the less.

Couldn't watch all of it, about 2 minutes is all I could stand !!

A comparison between the ETS EC and Mirka would interest me. If you were in the market for a new sander today, you wouldn't be considering the old ETS unless you were looking at the saving you could make.


Offline clark_fork

  • Posts: 272
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2015, 09:28 AM »
Anyone speak to the convenience or lack of convenience of turning on the vac. I have Midi

Festool=vac activates when turning on sander

Mirka= reach around to turn on vac?

Anyone speak to the cost of sandpaper, quantities available at one time

Both seem to have their own sand paper layout.
Clark Fork

"A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths."  Stephen Wright

"straight, smooth and square" Mr. Russell, first day high school shop class-1954

" What's the good of it?" My Sainted Grandmother

"You can't be too rich, too thin or have too many clamps." After my introduction to pocket joinery and now the MFT work process

"Don't make something unless it is both made necessary and useful; but if it is both necessary and useful,
don't hesitate to make it beautiful." -- Shaker dictum

Offline Havwoods Accessories Ltd

  • Festool Dealer
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Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2015, 11:47 AM »
If i may just jump in here.

We sell both so I'm not to biased...well apart from been Green Blooded!

BUT we have had at least two Deros returned with electronics issues recently...
The Deros is very lightweight  but IMO the ETS has the edge due to its innovative features, covered hose etc etc.

Hope this helps.
__________________________________________
Havwoods Accessories Ltd
FESTOOL Dealer, Preston UK
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Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2199
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2015, 12:25 PM »
...Looks like the Deros came out on top in all of his tests.  Unfortunately, Steve did not compare the dust collection on the various sanders, but his findings are interesting, none the less.

To be fair, Mirka has been doing sanders for years.
It would be pretty noteworthy is Festool could deliver a better sanding machine, but it does beg the question as to the R&D staff and funding that Bosch, Festool, Mirka etc devote funds towards.

As a kid I recall seeing men walking on the moon, and had a little astronaut jumpsuit that I wore out. At that time I pretty much had the impression that everything was invented and fully figured out. It was not until much later that I realised that science and technology are still advancing.

So I personally find it refreshing that we can debate whether a Mirka sander is better than a Festool sander... It is pretty much like debating whether a Maserati is better than a Ferrari, or whether Kate Blanchet is more stunning than Kate Winslet.
   Off topic, but forget those two Kates and consider Kate Beckinsale... [wink]
 Okay, back on to topic.  I like the posts about paper/abrasive costs between brands/sanders. Also, warranty support.  If there is a slight tendency for the Mirka'
s to go wrong, you'd like to know how long you're waiting for it to get repaired if needed.   [blink]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2015, 04:04 PM »
Anyone speak to the convenience or lack of convenience of turning on the vac. I have Midi

Festool=vac activates when turning on sander

Mirka= reach around to turn on vac?

Anyone speak to the cost of sandpaper, quantities available at one time

Both seem to have their own sand paper layout.

Clark: I don't know what you mean with your post - did I miss something?

I use a Mirka Deros coupled to a MIDI Vac at work. When the sander turns on/off - the vac turns on/off - there is no reaching around to turn on/off a vac.
 
The Mirka accepts Festool papers, Mirka papers - and every other paper on the market.
Festool accepts only Festool hole pattern papers.
Dust extraction is equal.

I also own and use the ETS EC (5) and when I used it today I actually came to the conclusion that the Mirka Deros is better. I used to think they are equal.  The only reason for keeping the ETS EC is the plug it cord at my work station. In the paint room the Deros is permanently hooked up to a MIDI vac but in the shop I use a Festool plug it hose. The sander is sufficient for me but sometimes feels a little lacking. When that happens I reach for the Rotex 150. ;)

I don't think you can go wrong with either sander but having owned both and still using both I would more likely recommend the Deros over the Festool ETS EC 5 unless you are using a plug it hose.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2015, 05:12 PM »
LR... 3 Kates.

...
Anyone speak to the cost of sandpaper, quantities available at one time

Both seem to have their own sand paper layout.

I pulled out the red model 1/2 sheet sander, as the Mrs is sanding a door today.
The pads said Abraidnet (by Mirka).

Those screens seems to last very long compared to paper, and with no overt big holes the dust just wanders up everywhere.
For wood I don't believe it matters too much, but for materials which are prone to clogging (like epoxies) they seem to hold up well.

Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2015, 05:46 PM »
I can attest to the longevity of Abranet papers on wood and on dry paint/finish. For finishing/between coats where the finish isn't hardened the papers don't really "clog" like regular sandpapers might - but they become "smeared" and lose their grit. They look fine but they don't do the job anymore.  In those cases I can't say they are better - they just smear instead of clog (they can clog though).  They are no worse than regular sandpaper in that aspect though.

We have both kinds of Mirka Abranet/Autonet. I usually grab whatever is nearest...  [embarassed]
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline clark_fork

  • Posts: 272
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2015, 05:53 PM »
 You answered my questions:

"Clark: I don't know what you mean with your post - did I miss something?

I use a Mirka Deros coupled to a MIDI Vac at work. When the sander turns on/off - the vac turns on/off - there is no reaching around to turn on/off a vac.
 
The Mirka accepts Festool papers, Mirka papers - and every other paper on the market.
Festool accepts only Festool hole pattern papers.
Dust extraction is equal."

I conclude

The Mirka Deros will work with my Midi
I can buy paper for the Mirka  from any vendor
There is no difference in dust extraction

From others I  have learned the Mirka is lighter and the paddle is regarded as a plus.

Other than yellow clashing with green, the Mirka Deros seems to be a good choice notwithstanding the price of each which no one here seems to care about.

Thanks for the insights.



Clark Fork

"A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths."  Stephen Wright

"straight, smooth and square" Mr. Russell, first day high school shop class-1954

" What's the good of it?" My Sainted Grandmother

"You can't be too rich, too thin or have too many clamps." After my introduction to pocket joinery and now the MFT work process

"Don't make something unless it is both made necessary and useful; but if it is both necessary and useful,
don't hesitate to make it beautiful." -- Shaker dictum

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2015, 04:55 PM »
My 2015 Festool USA catalog doesn't show the ETS EC model, just the EQ model and I don't see the EC model on my dealers website.  Is the EC available in the US?   If not, does anyone know if Festool will bring the EC to the US?  Thanks

Offline neeleman

  • Posts: 1210
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2015, 05:17 PM »
Until now it's NAINA.
You'll have to wait probably till Autumn 2015 or even 2016.
And it's not cheap either.
Festoolian since 1998.
FESTOOL:
SYSROCK BR10 | SYSLITE KAL II | SV-SYS D14 | DSC-AG125FH | CDD9.6 | SYSLITE DUO | DF700 | HKC55 | TXS2.6 | CTL SYS | CXS2.6 | DWC18 | CTWings | BHC18 | CS50 | CMS-OF | MFT/3 | MFT/3-VL | KS120 | TS55 R | PSC420 | PS420 | BS75 | RAS115 | RO90 | RO150 | RS400 | RTS400 | RS300 | LS130 | DX93 | ETS150/5 | ETS150/3 | OF1010 | OF1400 | OFK500 | MFK700 | T18 | EHL65 | CTL26 | CTL22 | CTL MIDI | WCR1000 | D27-AS Plug-it | D36 UNI-RS | D36x7 | D50x2.5 | FS800 | FS800/2 | FS1080/2 | FS1400/2 (2x) | FS3000/2 | FSK250 | FSK420 | Gecko Dosh | Toolie | CE-SYS-2010 | RB-SYS CART (2x) | LEV1400 | LEV350 | SYS-MFT
PROTOOL:
CHP26 | PDC18 | FLC UNI | VCP260 | DSC-AGP125 | DSC-AGP230 | DSG-AGP125 | DRP16

Offline Jimmy FineCut

  • Posts: 274
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2015, 03:59 AM »
You answered my questions:

"Clark: I don't know what you mean with your post - did I miss something?

I use a Mirka Deros coupled to a MIDI Vac at work. When the sander turns on/off - the vac turns on/off - there is no reaching around to turn on/off a vac.
 
The Mirka accepts Festool papers, Mirka papers - and every other paper on the market.
Festool accepts only Festool hole pattern papers.
Dust extraction is equal."

I conclude

The Mirka Deros will work with my Midi
I can buy paper for the Mirka  from any vendor
There is no difference in dust extraction

From others I  have learned the Mirka is lighter and the paddle is regarded as a plus.

Other than yellow clashing with green, the Mirka Deros seems to be a good choice notwithstanding the price of each which no one here seems to care about.

Thanks for the insights.

So did you get the Mirka Deros Clark?

Offline clark_fork

  • Posts: 272
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2015, 09:29 AM »
So did you get the Mirka Deros Clark?

Answer:

Despite the fact that my thrifty New England ancestors are rolling in their graves, I have not yet, but fully intend to go yellow. As a matter of fact, I don't have many friends I would admit to that I bought a $600.00 sander. They would tell me to go hire someone to do my sanding for that price. When I wandered into Festool land, I had no idea I was entering the high rent district and beyond.

For purposes of discussion, with regard to Festool, what are the merits of the 3mm stroke over the 5mm stroke? What is this EC about? Does eccentric refer to the operator?

Clark Fork

"A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths."  Stephen Wright

"straight, smooth and square" Mr. Russell, first day high school shop class-1954

" What's the good of it?" My Sainted Grandmother

"You can't be too rich, too thin or have too many clamps." After my introduction to pocket joinery and now the MFT work process

"Don't make something unless it is both made necessary and useful; but if it is both necessary and useful,
don't hesitate to make it beautiful." -- Shaker dictum

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2015, 09:40 AM »
There is also a 7 or 8 mm stroke RO sanders just to really get you going.

Depends what you are doing really. I hear that the people doing fibreglass like the 7-mm stroke.
So it depends on whether it is more finish or roughing it in.

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2015, 12:08 PM »
Interestingly, I came to the opposite conclusion that Clarke did.

Although I've already converted my old DeWalt ROS with an Abranet pad and I love using the Abranet sanding mesh, I'll go with the Festool ETS EC (when finally available in the US) because it has the following advantages over the Mirka Deros:

Vibration control
carbide tipped brake
sleeved hose available
can set up the sander not to start if hose is not attached
Festool build quality and excellent customer service
parts guaranteed for 10 years
30 day return policy.

The only real advantage I can see for the Deros is that it is about .42 pounds lighter than the ETS EC.  While I would definitely prefer the lighter sander for extended work, I've read about a number of people who have had problems with their Mirka sanders and have complained about Mirka's customer service and long turn-around times.  I feel significantly more confident in Festool's build quality and customer service.  It doesn't matter how great your sander is if it doesn't work, so that's enough to push me over the fence in Festool's direction.   I plan to use Abranet sanding mesh on the ETS EC as well. Since I've already donated over $2,000 this year to Festool's retirement fund, I can wait until the ETS EC is available here in the US.   

Just my two cents...

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5729
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2015, 12:16 PM »
What is this EC about? Does eccentric refer to the operator?

EC does not stand for eccentric.

EC comes from their brushless motors which they call EC-TEC motors, meaning it is a brushless motor with a built in electronic circuit that controls the RPM and keeps it at a constant speed.

E stands for electronic.

C - I am not exactly sure what the C stands for, is could be either Control, Constant or Circuit.


Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2199
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2015, 12:33 PM »
So did you get the Mirka Deros Clark?

Answer:

Despite the fact that my thrifty New England ancestors are rolling in their graves, I have not yet, but fully intend to go yellow. As a matter of fact, I don't have many friends I would admit to that I bought a $600.00 sander. They would tell me to go hire someone to do my sanding for that price. When I wandered into Festool land, I had no idea I was entering the high rent district and beyond.

For purposes of discussion, with regard to Festool, what are the merits of the 3mm stroke over the 5mm stroke? What is this EC about? Does eccentric refer to the operator?
Generally speaking, you sand to a higher level of finish with the smaller 3mm orbit over the larger 5mm orbit. However, with the right abrasives and the sander in the right hands, the 150/5 can really put out a nice finish.
 I finally bought a 150/3 when I wanted to do more stain-finish work around my house on mouldings and other larger pieces. Previously, I had been very happy with my 150/5 for all general sanding needs when it came time to larger areas being covered.
 Your choice on what you need most from a sander.  Or you own 10 or 11 of them like I do.......... [embarassed] [embarassed] [embarassed], and you pick the best one for the task at hand.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline sae

  • Posts: 842
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2015, 12:37 PM »
What is this EC about? Does eccentric refer to the operator?

EC does not stand for eccentric.

EC comes from their brushless motors which they call EC-TEC motors, meaning it is a brushless motor with a built in electronic circuit that controls the RPM and keeps it at a constant speed.

E stands for electronic.

C - I am not exactly sure what the C stands for, is could be either Control, Constant or Circuit.

EC = electronically commutated. Bosch uses the EC moniker as well.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5729
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2015, 01:27 PM »
EC = electronically commutated. Bosch uses the EC moniker as well.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2015, 05:09 PM »
Interestingly, I came to the opposite conclusion that Clarke did.

Although I've already converted my old DeWalt ROS with an Abranet pad and I love using the Abranet sanding mesh, I'll go with the Festool ETS EC (when finally available in the US) because it has the following advantages over the Mirka Deros:

...

The only real advantage I can see for the Deros is that it is about .42 pounds lighter than the ETS EC.  ....

...

The main advantage is that it is available in NA and not a pipe dream for 2016.

There is also the Mafell RO sander. Are they any good?
I was personally leaning towards a Mirka for the weight savings... But standing behind a horizontal lump of wood make weight less of an issue.

Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2015, 02:01 PM »
Interestingly, I came to the opposite conclusion that Clarke did.

Although I've already converted my old DeWalt ROS with an Abranet pad and I love using the Abranet sanding mesh, I'll go with the Festool ETS EC (when finally available in the US) because it has the following advantages over the Mirka Deros:

Vibration control
carbide tipped brake
sleeved hose available
can set up the sander not to start if hose is not attached
Festool build quality and excellent customer service
parts guaranteed for 10 years
30 day return policy.

Just my two cents...

SteveRice: I don't know if I buy into your conclusions based on the following (remember that I went from Mirka Deros to ETS EC 5 and actually use both).

Looking at your list, not in order;

* 30 day return policy: why would I need that for the Mirka if you need the sander and it is considered one of the best sanders available? No need for try and buy on a professional machine that is a proven machine and no lesser a machine than Festool.
If it is broke they will fix it in any case. If it is a DOA machine I will get a new one. With Festool I don't get a new machine if DOA and it is registered!

EDIT: In Sweden, for some obscure reason we only get a 15 day return policy!!! I meant to return one machine but it turned out that there is no 30 day return policy in Sweden for Festool, only 15 days. Why? I don't know.

* Vibration Control: I find that the Mirka has about the same low level of vibration as the ETS EC. They are (effectively) both vibration controlled.

* Sleeved hose available: sure, but at what cost!?? It is an accessory. En expensive one to boot. You can even get it in a Systainer. An expensive hose in a Systainer???

*Can set up the sander to not start when a hose is not attached: totally unnecessary feature. Really. Probably more cause for frustration than not.

*Festool build quality and excellent customer service:
I really disagree on this one. My new RTS400 sander was faulty. New, and faulty. Out of all my tool brands I have used Festool actually tops the statistics on faulty machines by a far margin! I still stick with them but I use the 30 day return policy more to have an option to return faulty tools and not to try them out. Out of some 25 Festool machines over the years I have had 5 lemons. Thats a 20% fault rate!  I bet Mirka has a lower fault rate. The build quality of the Mirka Deros is first rate.

*Festool service/repair: I am on good foot with two Festool dealerships and they cover for me - when Festool does not. One month repair time and no loaner, repairs returned without being fixed, demo guys that know less about the machines than I do etc etc.
Festool service is sub par in Sweden.

*Parts guaranteed for 10 years: that is great! :)
But - what good is that if they don't have parts in stock? Happened to me, five weeks delay due to not having the electronic circuitboard in stock...

I don't expect my daily use machines to last that long though and there is usually new products coming along to replace a four-five year old machine. I have a Bosch jigsaw that is roughly fourteen years old and is still serviceable.

*Carbid tipped brake: Yes, kind of nice, actually. :)
Mirka does not take long to stop though. It is not a deal breaker.

I chose the ETS EC for the Plug it option as I use it at a work station in the work shop. I can't plug it convert the Mirka Deros. If I could I would never have bought the ETS EC as I think the Mirka is better, ergonomically and finish quality is equal.

Thats my two cents gents.  [smile]

PS
I hope I don't come off sour with my list, just telling it like I see it, nobody has to agree.

I would also add that the ergonomics are (for me) slightly in favour of the Mirka Deros, I find the Deros more tactile for sanding between coats.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 02:30 PM by Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits »
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2015, 11:10 AM »
Henrik,

Thank you for your reply.  I found your comments regarding Festool's build quality and service very surprising.  I only have three Festool tools (Domino DF500, TS 55 REQ and Carvex PS 420) and all of them have been excellent machines. I have not read of people having Festool service problems here in the U.S., but I have read several negative comments about Mirka service here.  I'm wondering if the main difference in service is our respective locations.

In any event, I genuinely appreciate your feedback.

Thank you,

Steve Rice

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline clark_fork

  • Posts: 272
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2015, 02:09 PM »
Mellow Yellow

The Mirka arrived and I could not be more pleased. I don't think it has been mentioned that the Mirka Systainer fits the Festool Systainer.

The hand grip is comfortable, there is little vibration and compared to my old Bosch, a pleasure to use. I like the straight forward plug in. My Midi hose fit easily. The variable speed is a great feature. There is an on/off switch in addition to the paddle. 

I have to get  used to the paddle. It seemed a little light and I will worry about dropping from any height.

I have hearing aids so a word to wise about sound level before it is too late. The Mirka is quiet but still please always use hearing protection.

So far, I am happy as a clam with my Mirka DEROS.

Tool Nut was out of stock so I purchased via Amazon Prime for the $595.00 advertised price.




Mellow Yellow meets Soylent Green



Before and After The Bosch was a vibrating viper.
Clark Fork

"A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths."  Stephen Wright

"straight, smooth and square" Mr. Russell, first day high school shop class-1954

" What's the good of it?" My Sainted Grandmother

"You can't be too rich, too thin or have too many clamps." After my introduction to pocket joinery and now the MFT work process

"Don't make something unless it is both made necessary and useful; but if it is both necessary and useful,
don't hesitate to make it beautiful." -- Shaker dictum

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2015, 06:53 PM »
Henrik,

Thank you for your reply.  I found your comments regarding Festool's build quality and service very surprising.  I only have three Festool tools (Domino DF500, TS 55 REQ and Carvex PS 420) and all of them have been excellent machines. I have not read of people having Festool service problems here in the U.S., but I have read several negative comments about Mirka service here.  I'm wondering if the main difference in service is our respective locations.

In any event, I genuinely appreciate your feedback.

Thank you,

Steve Rice

Really?  ???
There are bunch on Carvex, the routers, rails bowed, track-saws not square... etc.

Granted complaints are about the tools, and the good tools end up being posts of pictures of finished projects more than raves about the tools.


Back to the yellow sander, it has a formula 1 look to it with the low center of gravity (CoM).


Just to round out the color pallet - The red EVA150 seems worth a look as well.
The main reason I would be considering the yellow Mirka (Over the red one) is ergonomics and weight. (As the other features seem about '==')

Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2015, 04:55 PM »
Clark Fork: it is nice to have some mellow yellow in the midst of all soylent green - had a nice chuckle over that.
Glad you took the plunge. Easier to spot the systainer too... :D

Holmz: Yes, ergo and weight, all other things being == .

Steve Rice: you are welcome! Mirka is not that common over here so by default service is harder to find. You have to go through your dealership and I find the dealerships are often the bottleneck of customer service. I have good report with Mirka dealership and excellent report with Festool dealership. Bosch sales and tech reps are fantastic but service is not as good, over here. But the dealership covers for me on both Festool and Bosch. The dealership often registers the Festool machine for us in Sweden but I always make sure they DON'T so I can check the machine before registering it and if it is faulty (remember those five lemons) I simply hand it back and try another unit until I am pleased and then I register and feel like I am covered by the Festool insurance should something happen further down the line.

I was surprised to learn about Festool shortcomings myself a few years ago but now I know that they are real and there is an abundance of Festool complaints regarding some of the tools and tool accessories. Don't mention the Jacobs chuck. ;)

The Festool machines that _are_ working as advertised are fantastic. Under my signature you will find what I use - not even all Festools I currently own and/or have used aren't listed. Some of the tools are stand outs, like the OFK500, OF1010 and the DF500 and some of the screwdriver/drills. I would not exchange them for anything.

I think Festool has lost some of the mojo over the last couple of years. Competition has been catching up on the bread and butter machines and service, innovation and build quality on new products has gone down. Festool superb build quality is a myth. I am not saying that they are worse than any other brand I just find them slightly behind some of the competition. I have had a fairly equal share of (Blue, not green) Bosch and Festool machines over the years and I have had ONE Bosch dud and five Festool duds.  I don't trust the electronics on the tools as much as I would like to.

But I am still a Fan, although a seasoned Fan. :)


I am glad you are happy with the Carvex, I was disappointed with mine and went back to Bosch (GST 18V Li barrel grip) which serves me better. I went past the return period with the Festool, trying hard to like it but every time I reached for the Bosch I thought "this one is simply better for me". 

Tools are exchangeable and there is no single brand that covers all bases and though I find that that I often post to critique tools I never do that talk down a brand, it is simply telling it like it is mixed with the frustration of paying for high end gear that turns out to be mid tier, at best.  I could mix it up with some praise for the great machines but I honestly expect high end wood working tools to work great, not just good.

With Festool I have been on/off over the years but I am neck deep in the system now and that makes me even more disappointed if the tools / new releases don't fit me/meet my requirements.  Especially now with battery tools maturing to the point of really replacing corded tools.   If any other brand does that it does not bother me that much if I haven't invested in a system. Makes sense?
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2015, 02:31 PM »
Clark,

Congrats on your new Mirka Deros.   Did you get the 5" or the 6"?

I understand that in Europe Mirka offers a Deros package with both 5" and 6" base pads. Do you know if the U.S. version can accept both base pads as well? I'm guessing the sander is the same whether you purchase the 5" or the 6" version and just the base pads are different.  Does that sound right to you?

Thanks and best of luck with your new purchase. 

Offline sae

  • Posts: 842
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2015, 02:36 PM »
US one doesn't.

Never found a clear explanation on why, either.

Offline teocaf

  • Posts: 598
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2015, 03:51 PM »
yeah, let's not forget Kate Hudson and Kate Bosworth...

nice looking Mirka, Clark.  I'm looking for one of those myself in the coming months.  Let us know how it holds up.  Shop looks like....well, let's just say that I'm not making a connection between it and tools that come with a super nice vac and in containers that makes organization a breeze.  On the plus side, you probably get some great exercise jumping through the obstacle course...

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2015, 08:01 PM »
1)
Henrik which is more powerful, I am looking for the answer on which is more powerful. If you had to hog material and couldn't reach for another sander between the two which would win?

"I chose the ETS EC for the Plug it option as I use it at a work station in the work shop. I can't plug it convert the Mirka Deros. If I could I would never have bought the ETS EC as I think the Mirka is better, ergonomically and finish quality is equal.

2) So you think the Mirka is better, but WHY - other than feel? Your comments really don't mention power, swirl marks etc.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2015, 02:47 AM »
Almost all sanders do the job. The 45$ 5" Bosch sands just fine for swirmarks and power.

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2015, 12:11 PM »
Almost all sanders do the job. The 45$ 5" Bosch sands just fine for swirmarks and power.

All sanders dont do the job, not even close. If they did zero people would pay 600.00 for a sander!  I do woodworking for a living and if my RO broke I would have to buy a new one that day, not use my little 5" palm sander. The little 5" Bosch is a toy compared to an ETS 150 or RO 150. And the 45.00 Bosch version has ZERO power and it isn't worthy of this thread and neither is the Festool ETS 125 for that matter. That sander is simply in  a different category.

I'll await Henriks or any other person response that has actually used these two sanders.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 12:14 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 768
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2015, 03:32 PM »
Dovetail, I tried the EC125 at the AWFS and found out Festool has finally come to the party with a powerful 5" sander. I was talking to Steve Bace at the booth and he had an 8/4 piece of maple with a very rough edge, was pleasantly surprised at how the sander knocked the edge down smooth in no time with 100P Granat. I also tried to stall it but it just kept going. IMHO a very nice sander. Couldn't find anyone selling/demoing the Deros at the show. Also heard some disturbing things regarding service of the Mirka Ceros and how often they breakdown. This was from someone that sells both Festool and Mirka whose opinion I trust.

John

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2015, 03:03 AM »
@Dovetail65
I have a UVA 115e, I do prefer it to the Bosch in very way. But say that it leaves swirls or do not sand is a misnomer. Yes It is slow and yes it vibrates, but it sands the wood just fine.
That was the context of the question which I was answering.

Much like saws working well when the blade is good. The Bosch with a good pad is mechanically more similar to other sanders in terms of what happens between the pad and wood than dissimilar.

Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2015, 03:15 PM »
Dovetail:

I would say that they are fairly close and I would not think of them as "aggressive" sanders. They are not digging down like a Rotex but with a coarse grit they can remove / strip down a surface quickly.

I have not done any side to side comparisons sanding the same surface size and material at the same time. I feel a little less fatigued with the Mirka if I have done lots of sanding and I still prefer the Deros for sanding between coats. I do some HVLP spraying and I was introduced to the Deros by a colleague (who is very very good finish spray painter). When I do finishing touches on delicate surfaces I feel more in control with the Deros. I also had to strip down a surface (table, two layers of spray paint) very quickly and the Deros made swift work of it and left a spray paint ready surface immediately.

As for build quality I have not heard much about problems with Deros machines and our machines are used daily. The previous Ceros I know very little about so I can't speak for the build quality of those. I judge machines based on model performance and not brand history.   

Still like - but don't love - the ETS EC 150 and still prefer the Deros. We have quite a range of sanders in the shop and I would say that the two stand out machines are Rotex 150 and the Deros. My Bosch GEX Turbo was stolen on a job site and the person who borrowed it from me bought me a new Rotex 150 as a replacement.  [big grin] I think the Bosch is a very good machine and has lasted me very well with rough sanding but the Rotex is a bit better.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2015, 04:22 PM »
Thanks, I too find my Rotex 150 still my favorite sander.

I cant believe I still use my original Rotex 150 from when I first joined the forum and have used it 2 hours plus 5 days a week since. That's over 7 years! Can it really be that long? I need to pull out the receipt, that's hard to believe.

Ill go with the Mirka. I can't wait to get it.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 04:25 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 768
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2015, 05:49 PM »
Henrik I might have missed it but what voltage do yours tools/sanders run on.

John

Offline sae

  • Posts: 842
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2015, 06:55 PM »
All of Europe is 220v. Only the UK nannystate makes everyone use 110v on jobsites. Workshops are still 220v.

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2015, 07:51 PM »
Does anyone know if you can switch between the 5" and 6" base pads on the U.S. Versions of the Deros?

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2015, 08:12 PM »
No for some reason in the US we can't.

Mirka offers  the DEROS in a 5" and 6" with 5mm stroke and a 6" with 2.5mm stroke and none look to be able to use both sizes. I have searched their US website and there is zero about using 5" and 6".

It appears the CEROS version uses a 5/16" threaded attachment so other pads should be able to be used. I am still reading up on the DEROS and how that works.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 08:17 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2015, 01:26 AM »
...
Mirka offers  the DEROS in a 5" and 6" with 5mm stroke and a 6" with 2.5mm stroke and none look to be able to use both sizes. I have searched their US website and there is zero about using 5" and 6".
...

There at least 3 models or Deros, 5", 6", and the one that is both 5/6" in 220v only".
There is also 2.5, 5-mm and maybe a 7 or 8-mm strokes.

And i think that the Ceros is still largely available in 220v.

There are even models in the 32-mm and 75-mm sizes.???
They only have Sandra and vacs, no Kapex, nor Domino.

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2015, 11:17 AM »
Like many others, I have scoured the Mirka website, and the internet in general, in an attempt to find additional information on switching the base pads on the Deros between the 5" and 6" pads on the U.S. version.  Today, I called the "contact us" number on Mirka's North American website and finally got some definitive answers...

I was told that the current U.S. versions of the Deros cannot change the base pads because of balancing issues related to the weight of the pads.  The good news, however, is that Mirka is currently working on a dual pad version of the Deros for the U.S. market.  It will be a 6" Deros that will also accept a heavier 5" base pad.  The bad news is that they could not provide me with any time frame as to when this new product will be released.

I am very eager to get a 6" sander for larger furniture projects, but I am currently heavily invested in 5" Abranet, so a dual pad sander would be the perfect solution for me. Looks like my old DeWalt ROS with the Mirka base pad will have to last me a while longer...

Thanks again to all of you who have responded to my questions regarding this.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2015, 07:38 PM »
Or just buy it out of Finland now, and get a 110 -> 220v transformer.

Offline Benjamin

  • Posts: 171
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2015, 08:41 PM »
I bought the 6" Mirka sander and a additional 5" pad and switched it no prob

Didn't notice a big deference in vibration or balancing ( there's a way of switching the
Weight in the sander as they supply the additional weights )

Amazing sander, super quite vs the rotex

It's like a ETS on steroids

I have a ETS and it's a totally different sander

WAY more powerfull

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #52 on: July 31, 2015, 10:58 PM »
I currently have several 220 volt outlets in my shop, both 30 amps and 15 amps. I realize this may sound like a stupid question, but (aside from the plug) is 220 in the U.S. the same as 220 in Europe? Would the European Deros actually work on a 220 line in the U.S.?

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2015, 11:10 PM »
I believe I just found an answer to my own question: it appears U.S. Electricity is 60 Hz whereas European electricity is 50 Hz, so Euro tools will not run here without some kind of transformer specifically designed for that purpose.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2015, 12:33 AM »
Most of the Eu tools are "Universal" so they operate both 50H and 60Hz.
It is usually worse to fee 50Hz to a 60Hz motor than the other way around.
So it says "Universal" anywhere, then it handles both.

US 220v versus Eu 230v.
Technically the US 220 has the "A" and "B" both sourcing current. When A is high then B is low, so measureing voltage between them you get 220v. If you measured the Voltage at A or B referenced to ground each side would only be 120v.

Eu 230 is sourcing at one of the pins and the other is neutral. Remember the US both are live at 1/2 the voltage.
If you measure between pins A & B they measure 220v/230v (or 240v in Australia).

From the perspective of the tool it doesn't know and it doesn't care. It just works.
All the Eu tools I have do not have a ground running to them. They are insulated or (double insulated), and they are all "Universal".

The most straight forward would be to contact Mirka USA and see if they can bring in an Eu model and whether Mirka confirms the "Universal" 60-Hz.

They are not any general cheap transformers that change the frequency, mostly old school where they change the voltage.

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #55 on: September 01, 2015, 02:10 PM »
Just received an email from the Tool Nut.  They are taking pre-orders for the ETS EC sander priced at $385.00 for the 5" and $485 for the 6" version.  Both sanders will be available October 1st.

Offline Pizza Steve

  • Posts: 146
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #56 on: September 01, 2015, 05:56 PM »
Like many others, I have scoured the Mirka website, and the internet in general, in an attempt to find additional information on switching the base pads on the Deros between the 5" and 6" pads on the U.S. version.  Today, I called the "contact us" number on Mirka's North American website and finally got some definitive answers...

I was told that the current U.S. versions of the Deros cannot change the base pads because of balancing issues related to the weight of the pads.  The good news, however, is that Mirka is currently working on a dual pad version of the Deros for the U.S. market.  It will be a 6" Deros that will also accept a heavier 5" base pad.  The bad news is that they could not provide me with any time frame as to when this new product will be released.

Hmm... I think that 5"/6" dual pad compatible Mirka would be worth the wait.  I would have replaced/upgraded my ETS 150/3 with an EC model if it supported multiple sized pads.

Do the EC 150 and EC 125 have the same 400W motor in them now?  If so, wouldn't that make the pads theoretically compatible with either sander?

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2015, 01:28 PM »
I agree that the Deros 5"/6" dual base pad combination is preferable, but who knows when we'll see it in North America. The Mirka rep had no information on any ETA.

I believe the ETS EC 5" and 6" models do have the same 400W brushless motor, but I have no idea if the base pads are interchangeable. I guess there might be a balance issue, but that's just a guess on my part.

I definitely prefer Mirka Abranet sanding discs over conventional sandpaper, so I'm wondering if the Mirka Abranet pad protector will line up with the dust collection holes in the ETS EC 6" so I could use Abranet discs with the ETS EC.  Anyone know about that? 

Thanks

Offline jcp2wood

  • Posts: 48
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2015, 03:20 PM »
i have purchased 5 seperate mirka deros 6" 650 sanders, each one had a problem,
they all stopped working after moderate use, or if it stopped working at 10000rpm.
luckily i bought them from amazon, so kept swapping them. the 6" pad mirka provides
is not well balanced and each pad is a different weight and spinning at 10000rpm, they
would get wobbly and stop itself. there is also the stop if too hot problem, i had two
do that for about 2-5 days of purchase and then never turn on again.
i have called mirka in ohio and they swear up and down there is no problem, never heard of
such issue. well i said i bought from amazon, so within 30 days, each bad unit goes back
and funny thing, none of them ever showed on amazon warehouse, which means all
went back to mirka to get repaired.

mirka deros has one advantage, sander is light, so if doing above the head work, work at odd angles,
this is the go to unit, but cant work at 10000rpm, 9000 rpm, 8000 rpm for long, not a selling point.

mirka deros with the festool sandpaper leaves alot of dust as the festool sandpaper does not
have all the suction openings that the pad provides.

i am ordering the ets ec 150 because after 5 mirka deros, and none function, its done.
the ets ec 150 has a slow down speed if wobbly or out of balance feature, the mirka is shut down
if wobbly, there is a difference, imho.


Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2015, 05:07 PM »
Very disappointing to hear about 5 bad units in a row.  I've read a number of stories about people having problems with Mirka sanders and their terrible customer service department. 

It appears that everyone on this forum who has used both the Deros and the ETS EC, prefers the Deros, and I'd like to get one, but stories like yours are keeping me on the fence...

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #60 on: September 02, 2015, 05:18 PM »
...
I definitely prefer Mirka Abranet sanding discs over conventional sandpaper, so I'm wondering if the Mirka Abranet pad protector will line up with the dust collection holes in the ETS EC 6" so I could use Abranet discs with the ETS EC.  Anyone know about that? 

Thanks

I have not seen the pad protector, but with a screen there are no holes that need to be aligned as there are holes every 1/2-mm in the screen.

If you have 220v in your shop you could get the 220v out of Finland. You get the 20% VAT removed, and the shipping is usually $50.

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Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #61 on: September 03, 2015, 02:57 PM »
SteveRice: I am equally saddened to hear about repeat Mirka failures. Seems like they had a bad batch or something.  [eek] In my own and my colleagues experiences Mirka is at least on par with Festool quality wise.

I have used the ETS EC 150 extensively the past couple of weeks but I still miss my Mirka Deros. I made a bad choice in switching but it works alright and since I have a plug it/vac cable it is the "best compromise".  If I found a way to plug it a Deros I would switch back - for sure.

As a side note my Festool RTS 400 sander is STILL not up to par despite having been sent in once already - it was brand new - it still does not perform as it should - very weak in power which we all agreed on in the shop, we all have one.

After dismantling it and, greasing it up and putting it together again and working the shroud a bit it is a little bit better but that is nothing that I should have to do on a NEW unit. Next step will be to send it in - yet again - with the previous service tag still left on it...  [mad]

Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #62 on: September 03, 2015, 05:51 PM »
SteveRice: I am equally saddened to hear about repeat Mirka failures. Seems like they had a bad batch or something.  [eek] In my own and my colleagues experiences Mirka is at least on par with Festool quality wise.
...

I recall reading that they were mostly with 110v versions.
It was somewhat odd as I thought that the basic tool was DC, but then the older CEROS also had some power supply failures on 110v.
That is what had me looking strictly at 230v models.

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 768
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #63 on: September 03, 2015, 08:26 PM »
i have purchased 5 seperate mirka deros 6" 650 sanders, each one had a problem,
they all stopped working after moderate use, or if it stopped working at 10000rpm.
luckily i bought them from amazon, so kept swapping them. the 6" pad mirka provides
is not well balanced and each pad is a different weight and spinning at 10000rpm, they
would get wobbly and stop itself. there is also the stop if too hot problem, i had two
do that for about 2-5 days of purchase and then never turn on again.
i have called mirka in ohio and they swear up and down there is no problem, never heard of
such issue. well i said i bought from amazon, so within 30 days, each bad unit goes back
and funny thing, none of them ever showed on amazon warehouse, which means all
went back to mirka to get repaired.

mirka deros has one advantage, sander is light, so if doing above the head work, work at odd angles,
this is the go to unit, but cant work at 10000rpm, 9000 rpm, 8000 rpm for long, not a selling point.

mirka deros with the festool sandpaper leaves alot of dust as the festool sandpaper does not
have all the suction openings that the pad provides.

i am ordering the ets ec 150 because after 5 mirka deros, and none function, its done.
the ets ec 150 has a slow down speed if wobbly or out of balance feature, the mirka is shut down
if wobbly, there is a difference, imho.

As a followup to your experience I was discussing the Deros with a Dealer in the Toronto area who also sells Dynabrade, and he said while he sells them he has to check everyone before they ship them out, 1 in 4 is bad right out of the box and even with the precheck they have had many service related problems. Once again this is only heresay and came up in the course of a conversation about getting some Abralon pads.

John 

Offline jcp2wood

  • Posts: 48
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #64 on: September 03, 2015, 09:46 PM »
so i have a question to everyone who claims to own a 6" deros,
did you use a pad saver on top of your pad?
if so did you alter the weights on the rotor under the pad?
i bet i get yes and no from the few people who own a deros, and how
many have used 10000rpm?
i suspect there are alot more faulty mirka deros than people are will to bother with
and how many can run their deros continiously for more than 20 min without that
dreaded red light instead of green power light?

i got 5 lemons? sure, but what are the odds of 5 units from amazon all coming
from same batch all being bad?

i protected myself buy using amazon, not a third party, i am not sure mirka in ohio was
going to stand up for their product, the tech rep was hoping i would just return product to
amazon and go away.

this is why i buy festool.


i have purchased 5 seperate mirka deros 6" 650 sanders, each one had a problem,
they all stopped working after moderate use, or if it stopped working at 10000rpm.
luckily i bought them from amazon, so kept swapping them. the 6" pad mirka provides
is not well balanced and each pad is a different weight and spinning at 10000rpm, they
would get wobbly and stop itself. there is also the stop if too hot problem, i had two
do that for about 2-5 days of purchase and then never turn on again.
i have called mirka in ohio and they swear up and down there is no problem, never heard of
such issue. well i said i bought from amazon, so within 30 days, each bad unit goes back
and funny thing, none of them ever showed on amazon warehouse, which means all
went back to mirka to get repaired.

mirka deros has one advantage, sander is light, so if doing above the head work, work at odd angles,
this is the go to unit, but cant work at 10000rpm, 9000 rpm, 8000 rpm for long, not a selling point.

mirka deros with the festool sandpaper leaves alot of dust as the festool sandpaper does not
have all the suction openings that the pad provides.

i am ordering the ets ec 150 because after 5 mirka deros, and none function, its done.
the ets ec 150 has a slow down speed if wobbly or out of balance feature, the mirka is shut down
if wobbly, there is a difference, imho.

As a followup to your experience I was discussing the Deros with a Dealer in the Toronto area who also sells Dynabrade, and he said while he sells them he has to check everyone before they ship them out, 1 in 4 is bad right out of the box and even with the precheck they have had many service related problems. Once again this is only heresay and came up in the course of a conversation about getting some Abralon pads.

John

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #65 on: September 04, 2015, 05:05 AM »
Reliability is one of the reasons I gravitate towards Festool products. The Mirka stuff has looked tempting, but I haven't been able to sample "the feel" locally .. so I haven't risked it.

Stories of multiple fails doesn't improve the cause .. @jcp2wood , do you have a Mirka now?

Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #66 on: October 12, 2015, 02:40 PM »
Since I am all for being totally honest when it comes to woodworking tools and regardless of brand I feel I need to post an update on the Mirka vs Festool: still prefer the Mirka in action over the ETX EC 150 but yesterday the Mirka Deros cable "gave up" and the machine stopped working. After checking it thoroughly we came to the conclusion that the power cord was "worn out" and had failed. We could get the Deros to spin a little by wiggling the cord.

Since the cord attachment isn't a standard fitting we have to order a new cable, hopefully we can pick one up from a demo machine for the time being.

Sucks when power tools fail. I pulled out the ETS EC 150 and it did a nice job. :)

I have had a few plug it cord fails over the years so I don't think Festool is necessarily better but I do like that I can switch Plug-It cords and even replace broken Plug-It cables and connectors on the fly. I have a small box of spares, just in case.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 02:42 PM by Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits »
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #67 on: October 14, 2015, 09:58 PM »
I was originally very interested in the Mirka Deros and I've been a long time user of Mirka Abranet on my old DeWalt ROS, but the many stories of Deros failures and poor Mirka customer service eventually influenced me to purchase the ETS EC 150/3.

I used a hole punch to modify a 150mm Mirka pad protector to match the Festool 17 hole pattern and fitted it to my ETS EC. Now I'm able to use Abranet abrasives with the ETS EC and I couldn't be happier with the results. The ETS EC just glides effortlessly over the wood, even with my new CT 26 turned up to MAX suction. I don't notice any vibration at all and the near instant stop of the pad brake makes the ETS EC a complete joy to use.  The on/off switch on the ETS EC has an advantage over the Deros paddle switch because I don't have to hold the sander and instead can guide the sander by the hose on large surfaces, eliminating a lot of bending and reaching, for a much more comfortable sanding experience. I also prefer the speed dial as opposed to the Deros buttons.

All in all, I'm extremely pleased with my choice to stay with a Festool product.  I always disliked sanding, but now I honestly look forward to it. I LOVE this sander!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 10:05 PM by Steve-Rice »

Offline morrisericd

  • Posts: 14
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #68 on: October 15, 2015, 07:15 AM »
A very timely thread for me.  I have an assortment of Festool sanders including the Rotex 150 and a couple of ETS 6" 3mm strokes.  I went in to look at the new ETS EC yesterday and also demo'd the Deros 550 5mm.  The Deros felt really nice even in the 5mm stroke and really took down material quickly.  They didn't have a demo of the ETS but I did turn it one and I like the ergonomics.  Here's the question: I need a sander that removes material quicker than the ETS but not as aggressive as the Rotex.  I think the Deros could be it.  Or is it the ETS EC in the 5 mm?  We do a lot of sanding furniture and custom cabinetry. 

Next question: I almost always gravitate towards a 6" over a 5" sander.  Even on smaller face frames, etc. I don't mind the bigger pad and it's really nice to have on bigger stuff.  Is the Deros 6" 5mm going to feel similar to the 5" I demo'd or is it going to be too aggressive?  Same question for the Festool.  Thanks!

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2199
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #69 on: October 15, 2015, 11:20 AM »
A very timely thread for me.  I have an assortment of Festool sanders including the Rotex 150 and a couple of ETS 6" 3mm strokes.  I went in to look at the new ETS EC yesterday and also demo'd the Deros 550 5mm.  The Deros felt really nice even in the 5mm stroke and really took down material quickly.  They didn't have a demo of the ETS but I did turn it one and I like the ergonomics.  Here's the question: I need a sander that removes material quicker than the ETS but not as aggressive as the Rotex.  I think the Deros could be it.  Or is it the ETS EC in the 5 mm?  We do a lot of sanding furniture and custom cabinetry. 

Next question: I almost always gravitate towards a 6" over a 5" sander.  Even on smaller face frames, etc. I don't mind the bigger pad and it's really nice to have on bigger stuff.  Is the Deros 6" 5mm going to feel similar to the 5" I demo'd or is it going to be too aggressive?  Same question for the Festool.  Thanks!
Can't speak about the Mirka sanders, but I own both versions of the older ETS 150 sander and the 5mm orbit is def. faster in material removal than the 3mm.
 Both are lighter than the Rotex and not as tiring to use even with the Rotex in the gentler ROS mode, but none of them are as light as my new ETS EC 150/5 sander.
 The EC is as aggessive as the older ETS that it replaces for me, and maybe even more so since I feel there is more power in this sander than either older ETS model.
 But I haven't done any timed test between the two versions to be sure, and not just subjective.
 I also own the 6"/ 150mm Rotex, and while you always have that option of the dual modes, it's probably going to become strictly a rough job sander for me since the new EC is so da@# light and powerful, esp. in a Vertical/Wall usage or overhead for ceilings.  Not that I used my Rotex for ceilings really ever, but you get my meaning right.... the new sander is an eye opener.
 I may yet get the 3mm version of it later if the 5mm one that I have now is any indication.
 I don't own any of Festool's 5"/125mm sanders, so I can't comment on them versus any other brand.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #70 on: October 15, 2015, 12:33 PM »
A very timely thread for me.  I have an assortment of Festool sanders including the Rotex 150 and a couple of ETS 6" 3mm strokes.  I went in to look at the new ETS EC yesterday and also demo'd the Deros 550 5mm.  The Deros felt really nice even in the 5mm stroke and really took down material quickly.  They didn't have a demo of the ETS but I did turn it one and I like the ergonomics.  Here's the question: I need a sander that removes material quicker than the ETS but not as aggressive as the Rotex.  I think the Deros could be it.  Or is it the ETS EC in the 5 mm?  We do a lot of sanding furniture and custom cabinetry. 

Next question: I almost always gravitate towards a 6" over a 5" sander.  Even on smaller face frames, etc. I don't mind the bigger pad and it's really nice to have on bigger stuff.  Is the Deros 6" 5mm going to feel similar to the 5" I demo'd or is it going to be too aggressive?  Same question for the Festool.  Thanks!

As far as the Festool ETS EC sanders are concerned and your question regarding 5" vs. 6", the 5" ETS EC only comes in the 3mm orbit, so if you want an agressive sander, I believe the 6" 5mm ETS EC would be your choice between the two.

As far as the Mirka Deros is concerned, I believe thier 6" Deros may also come in an 8mm orbit, which I would imagine is more aggressive than thier 6" Deros with a 5mm orbit.  I think their 5" Deros only comes in a 5mm orbit - But you should verify this as I'm not certain what is available in which countries.

Hope this helps...

UPDATE: I just checked and I believe the 8MM Deros is available in Europe only.  My apologies for the confusion.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 09:16 AM by Steve-Rice »

Offline NorthSound

  • Posts: 1
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #71 on: October 15, 2015, 02:55 PM »
Hi everyone! Been lurking here awhile and this is my first post. In southern Finland I run a hobby/semi-pro luthiery shop (and build home furniture to justify all the cool machines). My first fix was a TS55 REBQ  then CTL26 and, well, you all know the story:) Within a year the colour scheme in my small shop has turned to green. Blues and yellows... all gone. Last to go was a Mirka Ceros 125. I was on a fence for a long time on whether it'll be the Deros 125/150 combo or Festool ETS EC 150. Once Festool came up with the EC 125 it was a no-brainer. Performance-wise my old Ceros 125 was/is excellent but the transformer (no plug-it) and need for an extra adaptor for the hose was a bit cumbersome. The Festool hose would fit the new Deros but cable was still different. A definite BIG plus was the possibility to use two size(125/150) pads in one machine. Not the case with Festool ETS EC :( Size, weight, price in both machines are quite comparable...so...When the ETS EC 125 version was launched I thought I could fit 125 pads to a 150 machine as they look exactly alike. Nope :( ...I couldn't give up 'cos I could already taste the green... So, I made them fit. Probably I shouldn't give the details here? The machines are both really good so to me it was the little things: plug-it cord and a good stock of 150mm Festool sandpaper I allready had that didn't quite fit the Mirka hole pattern. I 'm quite happy with my choice. The system approach is great! Oh, and I chose the 3mm stroke. The guitar below was a delight to work on with green gear compared to ones before.

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #72 on: October 16, 2015, 09:12 AM »
For those of you who are considering a Mirka Deros sander, I just received an email from Peachtree Woodworking supply (ptreeusa.com) that Mirka is having a mail in rebate promotion and giving away 105 free Abranet sanding discs with the purchase of a Deros sander. 

The odd number of 105 discs is because they are including 3: 35 disc Abranet assortment packs, which contains 5 discs of the following grits: 80, 120, 180, 240, 320, 400 & 600, so (for those of you who are mathematically challenged) you wind up with 15 sanding discs of each of those grits.

I'm guessing Mirka is offering this mail in rebate incentive now because they are feeling the competition from the introduction of the Festool ETS EC, but that's just a guess on my part  [big grin]

Offline hemdale

  • Posts: 109
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #73 on: October 16, 2015, 06:27 PM »
Got a Deros. Couldnt be happier [emoji6]

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #74 on: October 16, 2015, 07:50 PM »
Got a Deros. Couldnt be happier [emoji6]

Which begs the question as to how much less happier one would be with the other?
It is not like they are bad.

Northsound had both so it sounds like the plug it was the deciding factor for him.


Offline sae

  • Posts: 842
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #75 on: October 16, 2015, 09:49 PM »
Depends how wisely you spend the $100 price difference.

Though I guess elsewhere the prices are the same.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #76 on: October 16, 2015, 10:00 PM »
Depends how wisely you spend the $100 price difference.

Though I guess elsewhere the prices are the same.

^yes^ - and if you have 220/230v already too.

Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #77 on: October 18, 2015, 07:46 AM »
Got a Deros. Couldnt be happier [emoji6]

Which begs the question as to how much less happier one would be with the other?
It is not like they are bad.

Northsound had both so it sounds like the plug it was the deciding factor for him.

I also had both - at the same time for a while - and the plug it was the deciding factor for me. If I had been able to fit a plug it to the Deros I would not have gotten the ETS EC. Now that I have it, I am pleased with it. I sanded down walls and a ceiling the other day (small room) and for that the ETS EC trumps the Deros.  I have a pad saver on the ETS EC - for me it is a must have.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #78 on: October 18, 2015, 07:53 AM »
.  Here's the question: I need a sander that removes material quicker than the ETS but not as aggressive as the Rotex.  I think the Deros could be it.  Or is it the ETS EC in the 5 mm?  We do a lot of sanding furniture and custom cabinetry. 

Next question: I almost always gravitate towards a 6" over a 5" sander.  Even on smaller face frames, etc. I don't mind the bigger pad and it's really nice to have on bigger stuff.  Is the Deros 6" 5mm going to feel similar to the 5" I demo'd or is it going to be too aggressive?  Same question for the Festool.  Thanks!

The Deros takes down sheets and panels more rapidly than the ETS EC 150/5 in my comparison with same grit. Both machines are a great sidekick to the Rotex 150. I would not get a 125 to complement the Rotex, I would get another same size pad. But then again I have a few other non circular sanders too. I fell that the ETS EC 150 is a little underpowered for aggressive sanding but it was never meant to be another Rotex. Festool calls it an intermediate sander - which is exactly what it is. It can be used succesfully as a finishing sander too but it is not a Rotex. I find the Deros bridging the gap a little more but not by a huge margin.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline morrisericd

  • Posts: 14
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #79 on: October 18, 2015, 08:58 AM »
I was able to take home both the 5" Deros 5mm and the ETS EC 6" Festool 5mm for the weekend and Monday.  My local Festool and Mirka supplier is the best!  I used both yesterday for a couple of hours and have a lot of sanding to do on Monday when they'll get the real test.  I also threw in my ETS 6" 3mm a few times for comparison.  My initial thoughts are that the Festool is well laid out and I really like the 5mm stroke.  I went into this thinking I should get the Deros and I do really like it but do I like it more than the Festool?  I'm still not sure.  It's a cool little sander (I really should have the 6" Deros for comparison to the ETS but they don't have it - I'd have to order it) and I really like it but there's the cord issue (not easily swappable with other Festools) and I'm still not sure about the paddle.  When I sand really big table tops and other large items I tend to let the sander float and move my hand around quite a bit on the tool.  Not going to be able to do that with the Deros.  Also - and this is something I'm sure I would get used to - when changing paper I kept accidentally turning on the sander when I was holding it upside down in my hand.  Small quibble.

I found the 5" Deros removing stock as fast if not faster than the 6" Festool.  The smaller sander was nice on edges.  It did look small after my 6" ETS and the ETS EC but it was efficient.

I'll have to decide Monday I guess.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2199
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #80 on: October 18, 2015, 09:16 AM »
I was able to take home both the 5" Deros 5mm and the ETS EC 6" Festool 5mm for the weekend and Monday.  My local Festool and Mirka supplier is the best!  I used both yesterday for a couple of hours and have a lot of sanding to do on Monday when they'll get the real test.  I also threw in my ETS 6" 3mm a few times for comparison.  My initial thoughts are that the Festool is well laid out and I really like the 5mm stroke.  I went into this thinking I should get the Deros and I do really like it but do I like it more than the Festool?  I'm still not sure.  It's a cool little sander (I really should have the 6" Deros for comparison to the ETS but they don't have it - I'd have to order it) and I really like it but there's the cord issue (not easily swappable with other Festools) and I'm still not sure about the paddle.  When I sand really big table tops and other large items I tend to let the sander float and move my hand around quite a bit on the tool.  Not going to be able to do that with the Deros.  Also - and this is something I'm sure I would get used to - when changing paper I kept accidentally turning on the sander when I was holding it upside down in my hand.  Small quibble.

I found the 5" Deros removing stock as fast if not faster than the 6" Festool.  The smaller sander was nice on edges.  It did look small after my 6" ETS and the ETS EC but it was efficient.

I'll have to decide Monday I guess.
. I've heard the accidental paper changing 'trick' from other Deros owners , so you're not alone with turning the the sander while changing the disc.... [embarassed]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #81 on: October 18, 2015, 01:28 PM »
...been there... ...done that...  [big grin]

I think you stumbled on the main differences already. I think the paddle works great when you have a lot of sheets/panels you need to go through. Also I find sanding to be more consistent when you don't move your hand around the machine that much - it is very evident between spraypainting coats or delicate surfaces where I think the Deros excels.

I think you should really compare same size sanders but apart from that I think you already know what it is all about, two great sanders. Remember that the Mirka Deros has a disadvantage with the power cord and if you are sanding and switching machines a lot you will find it a nuisance! Then you should go for Festool.

(At the shop we have a dedicated Festool Vac permanently hooked up to the Deros at a sanding station so no problems there.)
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline morrisericd

  • Posts: 14
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #82 on: October 19, 2015, 06:52 AM »
Thanks for the insight!  Have you used the 6" Deros?  If I go Deros I'm still not sure about the 6" vs. the 5".

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #83 on: October 19, 2015, 08:49 AM »
There is a 5" version and 6" version.
In 230v (220-240v) there is a version that does both... That requires the transformer from timberwolf.com .

It is either a negative or a positive. Positive is if it opens up the rest of the Euro range. Or you go 220v from an oven style outlet.
(Just to add complication of more tool options - like NAINA)

Offline morrisericd

  • Posts: 14
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #84 on: October 20, 2015, 07:01 AM »
I will be using it on a job site as much as in my shop so the 220 version is probably not in the cards (both lugging the transformer around and finding a 220 outlet on a job site doesn't work for me).  Any idea out there when the version with both pads will be released in the US?

Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #85 on: October 20, 2015, 02:22 PM »
I owned the 6" version of the Deros. My experience with it has been great and I do miss it from time to time. We still have a 6" Deros in the workshop so I still get to use one so I am not complaining.

Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline jzhu

  • Posts: 10
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #86 on: December 16, 2015, 12:02 AM »
I will be using it on a job site as much as in my shop so the 220 version is probably not in the cards (both lugging the transformer around and finding a 220 outlet on a job site doesn't work for me).  Any idea out there when the version with both pads will be released in the US?

I contacted Mirka Canada customer service, they told me this 5" pad (part # 915GV28-130g)
http://www.mirka.com/accessories/Backing-Pads1/#/8292502511/Backing%20Pad%20Net%20125mm%205/16%22%20Grip%2028H%20130g%20Medium is balanced to run on the 6" Deros.

Offline mo siopa

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Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #87 on: June 29, 2016, 06:34 PM »
Steve Johnson (the down to earth woodworker) did a comparison of the Deros, ETS and Bosch sanders.  You can find his youtube video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsNAx-H_xMs&feature=youtu.be

Looks like the Deros came out on top in all of his tests.  Unfortunately, Steve did not compare the dust collection on the various sanders, but his findings are interesting, none the less.

I didn't see that anyone else mentioned this. It is the ETS 150 he reviewed- not the ETS EC 150.  Wood magazine did a review recently and has the Festool as the top tool.  The Deros was close though.
Can somebody tell me what kind of a world we live in where a man, dressed up as a bat, gets all of my press?

Offline Construct

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Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #88 on: July 05, 2016, 04:09 PM »
Steve Johnson (the down to earth woodworker) did a comparison of the Deros, ETS and Bosch sanders.  You can find his youtube video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsNAx-H_xMs&feature=youtu.be

Looks like the Deros came out on top in all of his tests.  Unfortunately, Steve did not compare the dust collection on the various sanders, but his findings are interesting, none the less.

I didn't see that anyone else mentioned this. It is the ETS 150 he reviewed- not the ETS EC 150.  Wood magazine did a review recently and has the Festool as the top tool.  The Deros was close though.

Good point. The ETS EC series is a relatively recent product. You have to be careful when reading reviews and comparisons that are more than a year or so old.

Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #89 on: April 11, 2018, 09:49 AM »
I am still working both machines at the workshop. I can't say I prefer one over the other. Both have failed despite being used indoors in a controlled environment without excessive abuse. They are both great machines when they work though.

I have no experience with Mirka repairs as it has been a case of replacing the power cord with the Mirka. I think Mirka should have handed out replacement cords for free. At least we now have a vendor that sells them at a reasonable price and we have beefed up the machine and have had no issues after that.

I have been without the ETS EC 150 for FIVE weeks now - it is currently missing at Festool. I have heaps of sanding to do and this does tick me off a bit. On a five star level Festool gets a frosty one star.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #90 on: April 11, 2018, 09:56 AM »
Paul:

I am also one of those that have appeared in multiple threads, posting my "displeasure". If I was in the market for the machine I would have appreciated repeat warnings about reliability issues. I don't know how you define a "legitimate complaint" but as a professional user of Festool machines (and I have had far more over the years than my profile shows) I still don't take personal offence when someone else bashes tools I like or whether they support my frustration or not.

When you write "We understand that you're upset..." you do mean YOU - or have you become an official spokesperson for the collective mindset on the Forum? Just asking.

Personally I find complaints about complaints a bit silly. Even if I probably take it to the next level by complaining about your complaining about a complaint.  [big grin]

We understand that you're upset with Festool for your sander issues. However, posting your displeasure more than a dozen times across multiple threads in the past couple of days is becoming annoying. If you have a legitimate complaint, there are better ways of expressing it.

I agree that not all sanders produce equal finishes. I don’t agree that festool makes a quality ets ec sander that is reliable. If you use the tool a lot, look for another brand to buy. Festool knows who their victims are, I mean that they are cashed out.

EDIT: I usually sell off my tools after the warranty period and simply buy them new again. Even most Festools I have.
I do keep them as pristine as I possibly can in order to be able to sell them at a reasonable price with a clean conscience knowing that I have taken care of the tool - offering the Festool experience for someone else to dip their teeth in the Kool Aid and hopefully appreciate them as I have.

The ETS EC 150 is one of those Festool machines I can neither recommend nor do I think I will be able to sell mine off with a clear conscience - if I ever get it back from Festool. It doesn't really matter that it is a very good sander in use. It is on the "Lemon List" of Festools, up there with the Kapex and the Carvex.
 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 10:05 AM by Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits »
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline SRSemenza

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Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #91 on: April 11, 2018, 10:08 AM »
Paul:

I am also one of those that have appeared in multiple threads, posting my "displeasure". If I was in the market for the machine I would have appreciated repeat warnings about reliability issues. I don't know how you define a "legitimate complaint" but as a professional user of Festool machines (and I have had far more over the years than my profile shows) I still don't take personal offence when someone else bashes tools I like or whether they support my frustration or not.

When you write "We understand that you're upset..." you do mean YOU - or have you become an official spokesperson for the collective mindset on the Forum? Just asking.

Personally I find complaints about complaints a bit silly. Even if I probably take it to the next level by complaining about your complaining about a complaint.  [big grin]

We understand that you're upset with Festool for your sander issues. However, posting your displeasure more than a dozen times across multiple threads in the past couple of days is becoming annoying. If you have a legitimate complaint, there are better ways of expressing it.

I agree that not all sanders produce equal finishes. I don’t agree that festool makes a quality ets ec sander that is reliable. If you use the tool a lot, look for another brand to buy. Festool knows who their victims are, I mean that they are cashed out.

There is a limit to what is a realistic complaint, letting people know about the issue, restating it a couple times, and what is simply throwing a tantrum and trashing up a host of topics.

There is also a difference between posting about a problem and just using the forum to take shots at Festool because of the problem.

Seth

Offline PaulH99

  • Posts: 115
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #92 on: April 11, 2018, 10:22 AM »
I'm not taking personal offense at all.

The member I referred to jumped into several other threads for the sole purpose of bashing a product. There is a definite line between voicing a legitimate concern on the forum, and criticizing a product at every opportunity. One is constructive and the other quickly becomes annoying. When I said "we understand" I was referring to the fact that I'm not the first person to ask him to stop derailing conversations with his need to rant.

I am also one of those that have appeared in multiple threads, posting my "displeasure". If I was in the market for the machine I would have appreciated repeat warnings about reliability issues. I don't know how you define a "legitimate complaint" but as a professional user of Festool machines (and I have had far more over the years than my profile shows) I still don't take personal offence when someone else bashes tools I like or whether they support my frustration or not.

When you write "We understand that you're upset..." you do mean YOU - or have you become an official spokesperson for the collective mindset on the Forum? Just asking.
-Paul
CT 26 • DF 500 • ETS 125 • KS 120 • OF 1400 • PS 420 • RO 125 • TS 55 R

Offline Kevin D.

  • Posts: 910
Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #93 on: April 12, 2018, 05:36 AM »
I'm just confused why this old thread is resurrected.  I worked back and is there a post that has been deleted between that of Construct in JUL2016 and PaulH99 yesterday?  Just seems like a lot of aimless ranting.  Henryk seems to have a big gripe out of nowhere also.  Most confusing.

Aside from all this...What I did want to say though was I find my Mirka Deros probably the best sander I will ever own.  It is just such a pleasure to use compared to all my other sanders or sanders I've ever tried for what it is designed to do which it does so well.  And you can't beat that whole Abranet stuff either which now I see recently Festool is also adopting.  FWIW......and mini rant over.....I think.....lol!
Kapex, CT-SYS, SYS-Cart, Pro 5 Sander, CT36AC, TS75, MFT 1080, MF-SYS/2, PS300 EQ-Plus, Parallel Guides Set, LR32 SYS, RO 150FEQ-Plus, OF1400 EQ Plus, DOMINO 500 Q-Plus,  Domino XL, MFK 700 EQ-Set, FS-SYS/2, CT22 w/hose storage, D36HW-RS-Plus, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, FS 1080/2-LR32, FS 1400/2-LR32, Gecko, Festool Floor Mat, Festool Stein, Multi-Tool, tape measure, large and small Festool floor mats (foam rubber).

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?
« Reply #94 on: April 12, 2018, 09:50 AM »
I'm just confused why this old thread is resurrected.  I worked back and is there a post that has been deleted between that of Construct in JUL2016 and PaulH99 yesterday?  Just seems like a lot of aimless ranting.  Henryk seems to have a big gripe out of nowhere also.  Most confusing.

Aside from all this...What I did want to say though was I find my Mirka Deros probably the best sander I will ever own.  It is just such a pleasure to use compared to all my other sanders or sanders I've ever tried for what it is designed to do which it does so well.  And you can't beat that whole Abranet stuff either which now I see recently Festool is also adopting.  FWIW......and mini rant over.....I think.....lol!

Hi,

  Sorry for the confusion.  There had been a trolling post deleted. I missed the quoted version. 


Seth