Author Topic: Festool's first U.S. production line  (Read 8594 times)

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Offline Bob D.

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2017, 12:28 PM »
I have no use for a rail with holes. I do not want to pay more for something I don't or won't need.

I would think that the savings in reduced inventory and all that goes with it would offset having
only drilled rails and therefore let Festool hold the price to the same as it is now for non-drilled rails.

In short they shouldn't (to my way of thinking) increase the price if they only carried drilled rails in
the future.
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Offline Dovetail65

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2017, 01:01 PM »
I have no use for a rail with holes. I do not want to pay more for something I don't or won't need.

They are the same price right now. A 55" without holes is 136.00 and 55" with holes cost 136.00.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 01:04 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline rylim

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2017, 02:31 PM »
Since it is going to be made in USA (no more import tariff, high shipping cost) ,I just wondering if the price will go down?
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Online Peter Halle

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2017, 03:30 PM »
Since it is going to be made in USA (no more import tariff, high shipping cost) ,I just wondering if the price will go down?

I would seriously doubt that the price would go down.
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline antss

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2017, 04:21 PM »
Me too. I mean when has festool EVER lowered prices ?
The rails should be exempt from the ubiquitous 5% yearly increase though.  But I'm guessing that won't happen either.   ::)

Gregor - I never said "better" - that is too subjective.   I said I "prefer" having rails with no holes in some instances, and that I have both kinds.  I like the CHOICE.   For jobsites where we cut cabinetry panels we have no use for a 32 mm drilling system, none.  If the cabinet isn't drilled , we aren't modifying it or constructing them.  The solid rails slip in and out of the carry cases easier than the holey ones. And they and the cases stay cleaner too.

This may not appeal to everyone, especially someone like Kreg who builds cabinets on site and uses the lr32 on every job.  But he has the option of buying either rail and can even substitute a holey rail if he buys a TS "package" .  Festool , or certainly the dealers I've dealt with since the single spine rails have been willing to swap solid for holey at no charge. So having "choice" costs very little or nothing to all customers.

But, drilling all rails will have significant and easily measurable costs to the bottom line.  Where as economies of having two less sku's to is much harder to quantify and will most certainly not be as much in real dollars and euros as the extra time, electricity and tooling cost will be for drilling all rails.

I don't see Festool ever offering custom lengths.  Their production line in Germany has this capability now. They simply don't have the will or the processes in place to offer such a service.  They can't even offer the correct size deflector after a decade, which is only one size.  What makes anyone think they can possibly deliver a random length rail 50+ times a week ?    They just aren't that type of company.  Frankly , I don't know any made to order custom hand tool companies [unsure]

What I'm interested in seeing is whether the new  loooong rails are any straighter than their imported counterparts that many have been reporting lately as having a fair amount of warp in them.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 04:50 PM by antss »

Offline Coen

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2017, 12:49 PM »
I wonder what the overall % of all rails are the holey ones. I guess <1%...

I got 800/2 with my OF-1010, a 1400/2 with my TS55 and as second rail I bought a holey 1400. Then years later I added the LR32 set itself. Holey rails are ~20% more expensive where I live.

They can't even offer the correct size deflector after a decade

How would you add the railstop if they increase the width of the deflector?

Offline Gregor

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2017, 04:57 PM »
They can't even offer the correct size deflector after a decade

How would you add the railstop if they increase the width of the deflector?
Put on the stop, put on the deflector?

Offline Paul G

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2017, 06:05 PM »
Will the USA rails have squared ends?

I'll take the silence to mean no lol
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Offline vidkid26

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2017, 08:22 PM »
Isn't that the point?
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Offline antss

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2017, 08:53 PM »
They can't even offer the correct size deflector after a decade

How would you add the railstop if they increase the width of the deflector?
[/quote]

Just like you did when the rails had a single spine instead of double.  Like Gregor said: attach stop then attach deflector. 

-or-

Slide it on from the opposite end. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.  Unless you have two joined rails. Then you gotta do as Gregor says.

Are you making a lot of stopped cuts ?  I've used my stop a grand total of one time in 20yrs +/-.  But the deflector gets used on almost every cut. 

Offline Distinctive Interiors

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2017, 06:44 AM »
I use my Kick Back Stop a lot. I do use my saw & rail for doing plunge cuts into kitchen worktops for sink and hob cutouts.

As has been said, just slide the Kick Back stop on from the other end, simple.

Offline TylerC

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2017, 08:13 AM »
On the custom guide rail question, keep in mind that we sell exclusively through independent dealers, which would complicate the ability to do custom lengths significantly. When we aren't receiving the end customer's order directly, that's another layer of complexity for customized products.

Offline Kodi Crescent

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2017, 10:40 AM »

I'll also bet that ALL of you don't have holey rails exclusively.


I have. I converted all of my rails and can now just grab the most convenient size for the job.

How did you convert them?

Offline Gregor

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2017, 11:09 AM »
On the custom guide rail question, keep in mind that we sell exclusively through independent dealers, which would complicate the ability to do custom lengths significantly. When we aren't receiving the end customer's order directly, that's another layer of complexity for customized products.
That sounds like you havn't heard about some recent innovations: parcel services, computers and internet?

Quite some stuff I ordered from independent dealers was shipped to me directly from festool central warehouse (according to the labels on the boxes), so I wonder where the problem should be with a customer ordering a custom length rail at his local dealer, that one logging into your system via the internet and entering the order that then gets made on demand and shipped directly to the customer.

But looking at the current still in progress desaster with the websites you surely have a valid point, that would be complicated.

Offline Alex

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2017, 11:13 AM »
On the custom guide rail question, keep in mind that we sell exclusively through independent dealers, which would complicate the ability to do custom lengths significantly. When we aren't receiving the end customer's order directly, that's another layer of complexity for customized products.

Seriously? It's called communication, and shouldn't be a problem in the information age.

Customer to dealer: Please get me rail of xx.xx length. My name is Johnny Woodcutter and live at House Road 555.

Dealer to Festool: please send me a rail of xx.xx length.

Festool: cuts rail, sends it to dealer.

Dealer: gives rail to Johnny Woodcutter and gets money. Festool receives fair share.

Offline waho6o9

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2017, 11:25 AM »
Just make 12 or 14 footers etc..... and let us cut them to the sizes we want. :)

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #46 on: July 15, 2017, 11:55 AM »
Just make 12 or 14 footers etc..... and let us cut them to the sizes we want. :)

Is that before or after the freight company turns it into a pretzel?  [eek] [scared]

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline waho6o9

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2017, 12:05 PM »
Just make 12 or 14 footers etc..... and let us cut them to the sizes we want. :)

Is that before or after the freight company turns it into a pretzel?  [eek] [scared]

Peter

O ye of little Faith.
After of course

Offline Roseland

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2017, 12:09 PM »
Is there any chance that they'll find a better glue and make the splinter strip stay on?

A  :-)
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Offline Distinctive Interiors

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2017, 12:55 PM »
Is there any chance that they'll find a better glue and make the splinter strip stay on?

A  :-)

Is that a common problem then..? I have a good number of rails of different lengths, some older than others but have never had a splinter strip start to peel or fall off.
I have peeled the splinter strip off deliberately myself on a couple of my rails and moved them across when they have got a bit worn, but they have stayed stuck after I've reapplied them. Are yours the factory fitted edges that have peeled or edges you have applied yourself...?
When applying an edge back on, its important to ensure the underside of the rail is spotless clean. I use Denatured Alcohol to clean the rail then reapply the splinter strip.

Offline Svar

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2017, 01:06 PM »
Is there any chance that they'll find a better glue and make the splinter strip stay on?
Festool should simply redesign the strip to slide in a slot. Just like Mafell strips. There is no way this solution is patented, you can find it everywhere.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2017, 01:11 PM »
It sure would be wonderful if Festool would get 3M to come up with an adhesive that holds up properly now that they have a relationship with them.

Two weeks ago I went out and found that 5 guiderails had lost their strips overnight in my van and trailer.  So I cured that problem with contact cement.  I don't change my strips out often.  So far so good in 98 degree plus temps.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Online Cheese

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2017, 02:03 PM »
Festool should simply redesign the strip to slide in a slot. Just like Mafell strips. There is no way this solution is patented, you can find it everywhere.

Like on the bottom of storm doors for example.

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #53 on: July 15, 2017, 04:41 PM »
On the custom guide rail question, keep in mind that we sell exclusively through independent dealers, which would complicate the ability to do custom lengths significantly. When we aren't receiving the end customer's order directly, that's another layer of complexity for customized products.

Seriously? It's called communication, and shouldn't be a problem in the information age.

Customer to dealer: Please get me rail of xx.xx length. My name is Johnny Woodcutter and live at House Road 555.

Dealer to Festool: please send me a rail of xx.xx length.

Festool: cuts rail, sends it to dealer.

Dealer: gives rail to Johnny Woodcutter and gets money. Festool receives fair share.

You forgot to ask if he wanted the Holey or the Heathen version. :)
-----
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Offline Paul G

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2017, 04:44 PM »
On the custom guide rail question, keep in mind that we sell exclusively through independent dealers, which would complicate the ability to do custom lengths significantly. When we aren't receiving the end customer's order directly, that's another layer of complexity for customized products.

265698-0
+1

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2017, 07:01 PM »
MY OPINION - I realize that there are a lot of wishes and wants in this thread - even by me - but keeping it real Festool is going to go status quo by their statements for the time being or longer.  To change extrusion designs would probably mean worldwide changes and that isn't something that will happen in combination with setting up a production line in another country.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Bohdan

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #56 on: July 15, 2017, 08:02 PM »

Offline TylerC

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #57 on: July 15, 2017, 09:03 PM »
MY OPINION - I realize that there are a lot of wishes and wants in this thread - even by me - but keeping it real Festool is going to go status quo by their statements for the time being or longer.  To change extrusion designs would probably mean worldwide changes and that isn't something that will happen in combination with setting up a production line in another country.

Peter

^^ This. Although I don't work in production, I would imagine that the priority is matching and maintaining the quality and efficiency of the German production operations. Any changes or enhancesments would be secondary.

Offline antss

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2017, 09:35 PM »
D.I - I can see how the stops would be useful for sink cutouts.  That's the one time I used it , but found it more trouble than it was worth.   Eyeballing a witness mark to the line on the saw shroud is much faster for me.   I think the guide strip glue issue is related to geography.  Here in the SE USA , my guide strips fail often and regularly and have since the late 90's. We have hot and humid weather year round.  Very different than Germany. I rarely hear problems in the Northeast USA or Europe where the temps are much cooler.

Gregor & Alex , your view is often voiced by many who have no clue what it's like to run a manufacturing business, or young uns who have grown up in the Information Age where everything is point, click and deliver tomorrow.   I'm not picking on you.

It's just that running a global manufacturer with hundreds of products that need to be delivered withing a week at a fixed price in twenty different currencies doesn't lend itself to customization.  Even someone like TSO who is small, lean, and has demonstrated the ability to quickly respond to customer feedback doesn't offer customizing of their products.  It's simply a different animal.

Computers/ websites can easily accept orders and UPS can deliver a widget anywhere in the world overnite.  The difficulty is getting that custom order processed, priced,  resent for approval, re-received, materials ordered or machine code written for your one off and then slotted into production.  Produced, then custom packaging needs to be made before it's shipped. THAT takes manpower that you will have to pay for.  How much more are you willing to pay for all that?  And remember , your also going to have to pay for the opportunity cost that is lost by not producing our regular scheduled widgets at a known profit. 

Ford could easily take your order for bronze alligator skin seats, herringbone cashmere roof lining and pink sheepskin carpets. They could also make them as they have plenty of experience with seats, roof liners and carpets in cars. No way is that going to happen though. Rolls Royce is happy to accommodate those requests though.

Peter H.  Could you eleobrate on the new 3m relationship ? 
Changing the extrusion really isn't prefaced by a new U.S. production line.  It would just require a change to that line.  Just like Germany did when they changed the rails from one spine to the current two spine design. The extruder will produce anything they want to design and pay for. Instead of a section that presses a clear stick on strip to the bottom, they would have a section/module insert one into a slot.  Packaging could stay the same, and we sure as shootin know the deflector won't change. 😜

Online Cheese

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Re: Festool's first U.S. production line
« Reply #59 on: July 16, 2017, 01:12 AM »

Peter H.  Could you eleobrate on the new 3m relationship ? 


Here ya go antss...I worked there for 8 years...their VHB tapes are some of the best.

http://investors.3m.com/news/press-release-details/2016/3M-and-Festool-Announce-Strategic-Collaboration-to-Serve-Automotive-Collision-Repair-Industry/default.aspx