Festool Owners Group

FESTOOL DISCUSSIONS => Festool Tools & Accessories => Topic started by: PA floor guy on March 19, 2013, 07:06 PM

Title: Festool and mafell
Post by: PA floor guy on March 19, 2013, 07:06 PM
Reading a different post got me thinking.  What are the biggest difference between festool and mafell.  I know Mafell makes a lot of different tools than festool offers. But on similar tools, which is better and why....
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: skids on March 19, 2013, 07:09 PM
Reading a different post got me thinking.  What are the biggest difference between festool and mafell.  I know Mafell makes a lot of different tools than festool offers. But on similar tools, which is better and why....

Price for one. Mafell is hideously expensive.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Davej on March 19, 2013, 07:34 PM
Reading a different post got me thinking.  What are the biggest difference between festool and mafell.  I know Mafell makes a lot of different tools than festool offers. But on similar tools, which is better and why....

Price for one. Mafell is hideously expensive.


But then so is festool verses makita , dewalt etc but you still buy festool. Mafell is ' maybe '  the top tier .
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: skids on March 19, 2013, 07:56 PM
Reading a different post got me thinking.  What are the biggest difference between festool and mafell.  I know Mafell makes a lot of different tools than festool offers. But on similar tools, which is better and why....

Price for one. Mafell is hideously expensive.


But then so is festool verses makita , dewalt etc but you still buy festool. Mafell is ' maybe '  the top tier .

Anything more $$ than Festool = Law of Diminishing returns.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: GhostFist on March 19, 2013, 08:30 PM
Imo mafell make the best saws on the market lots of power smooth running extremely well built fantastic machines. Festool are great but mafell really has some brilliant engineering.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: greg mann on March 19, 2013, 09:14 PM
A tool that cost twice as much may only be ten percent better (subjective at best) but that ten percent may make all the difference in the world from the standpoint of commercial or artistic success. Case in point? .300 hitter versus a .250 hitter. One more hit in every 20 at bats. Anyone know what a consistent .400 hitter could ask for these days? One hit in ten better than a .300 hitter that just might go into the Hall of Fame himself.

That said, I really would like to see both Mafell and Protool here in the States. Each of us is crazy in his own way, and I am not sure how crazy I am yet.   ;D
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: woodie on March 19, 2013, 09:15 PM
Cool tools for sure.  They don't seem to have much interest in the US market though, as they only have one distributor. Unfortunately they don't offer a trial period like they have in other markets and availability of accessories can be a bit spotty.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: jonathan-m on March 20, 2013, 04:30 PM
This is a sensitive topic, so I hope I don't misstep.

Almost a year ago now I've replaced my TS55 & Carvex with the Mafell counterparts.

Festool makes excellent tools. It's is part of a huge conglomerate and has an enormous line-up with tons of accessories for them. Add to that the excellent service and I can completely understand why someone chooses Festool over anything else. I think they offer a complete package that can't be beat by any other manufacturer at this time.

However I also believe that tool for tool Mafell is better engineered. They pay more attention to details and machining touching surfaces to eliminate any tolerances and play. They also seem to be more robust and resistant to wear and tear in my experience.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: skids on March 20, 2013, 07:58 PM
A tool that cost twice as much may only be ten percent better (subjective at best) but that ten percent may make all the difference in the world from the standpoint of commercial or artistic success. Case in point? .300 hitter versus a .250 hitter. One more hit in every 20 at bats. Anyone know what a consistent .400 hitter could ask for these days? One hit in ten better than a .300 hitter that just might go into the Hall of Fame himself.


Law of diminishing returns defined.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: tdfiver on March 22, 2013, 04:20 AM
Only mafell I own is the KSP40 saw.

This is one brilliant little saw and I would not be without it. The build quality is as good if not better than Festool, it is without a doubt more robust and can take site work no problem.

Only problem is finding blades for it as it takes 120mm, so blades are expensive.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Dan1210 on March 22, 2013, 08:23 AM
generally my new ts55r doesnt feel as robust as my older ts55, i cant quite put my finger on it... time will tell, should have given the maffell plunge saw a raz!
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Bob Gerritsen on March 22, 2013, 10:31 AM
I think I have to agree with Jonathan, really going in to the details and doing a proper A/B comparison will most likely show Mafell is on average just a little bit better per machine. Maybe that is because there are a smaller company and they don't try to fit as much as possible into the overall system as Festool does.

Ever since I got the Mafell KS300 I fell in love with that machine. It is hard to explain until you've used it but that machine is an A+ in engineering. It is hard to overrate that machine, all those possibilities in one sys 4, that is brilliant engineering.To be honest, I'm expecting I will probably replace my TS55 with it's Mafell counterpart, instead of getting the TS55R from all I've read and my experience with the small KS300. 

In the end, if you stick with Festool you won't miss Mafell for a second. Festool's system works most of the time and they simply make excellent tools. I do think though every Festool user will be pleasantly surprised when using a Mafell. Maybe not enough to take the jump as it is not only the machines qualities that play part in deciding, but still.

Btw, I don't know how pricing is in the US but over here Mafell and Festool are sort of in the same price range. At least the plunge saws and routers are, Mafell's jigsaw really is something special so it fits that it is a bit more expensive than Festool's.

I know this is the Festool owners group but still I'm a bit surprised the love for Mafell isn't a bit bigger. For me, between those two brands I can find just about all the woodworking hand tools I need. My ideal line up would probably be 65% Festool and 25% Mafell and the odd 10% for other brands.

Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Jalvis on March 22, 2013, 11:22 AM
Bob Gerritsen's response is spot on.  Festool is a great company but Mafell takes there fit and finnish a bit farther.  I agree its hard to explain but you will understand after using a Mafell product......its well thought out and the details are perfect in function, feel, and looks.

In the USA Mafell is not close in price and has one Dealer: www.Timberwolftools.com (http://www.Timberwolftools.com)
For the USA that means dealer support is not near as localized but that doesnt stop me from buying Mafell.  Its like the first time you use a Track Saw or a Miter Saw.....you work differently because the options to solutions change.  This is true with many Mafell products such as the KSS300, Duo-Dowel System, MT55 and the Erika pull-push saw(Festool has a version but only Mafell's is available in the USA).

Personally only one function can be enough to select one tool over the other.  For example the Mafell MT55 has the best blade change function...you simply set the saw down, Press a button, pull a lever, and the entire side swings open while locking the blade.  This was a feature that didnt mean anything to me when I bought the MT55 but after use its one of my favorite characteristics and is enough if a re-purchase ever occurred.  Simple things like the F-style rails have a second slot closer to the cutting edge for narrow stock and the joining rail function being fast and dummy proof.

Its important you dont miss understand where I'm coming from......brand loyalty means nothing to me.  I'm not painting my shop Red or Green!  Its about what tool makes your job easier and faster(time=money).  My tools make me Money and have to Perform.  Price is only one part of the equation and since I have a long career ahead its easier to gain over the long run.


Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Alan m on March 22, 2013, 11:45 AM
i really like that side opening feature on the mt55. everytime i have to change the ts55 blade i complain about it not having that feature. if i had to replace my ts55 i would buy the mt55

i like the duo doweler but the domino stilll wins overall.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Michael Kellough on March 22, 2013, 11:58 AM
Bob Gerritsen's response is spot on.  Festool is a great company but Mafell takes there fit and finnish a bit farther.  I agree its hard to explain but you will understand after using a Mafell product......its well thought out and the details are perfect in function, feel, and looks.

In the USA Mafell is not close in price and has one Dealer: www.Timberwolftools.com (http://www.Timberwolftools.com)
For the USA that means dealer support is not near as localized but that doesnt stop me from buying Mafell.  Its like the first time you use a Track Saw or a Miter Saw.....you work differently because the options to solutions change.  This is true with many Mafell products such as the KSS300, Duo-Dowel System, MT55 and the Erika pull-push saw(Festool has a version but only Mafell's is available in the USA).

Personally only one function can be enough to select one tool over the other.  For example the Mafell MT55 has the best blade change function...you simply set the saw down, Press a button, pull a lever, and the entire side swings open while locking the blade.  This was a feature that didnt mean anything to me when I bought the MT55 but after use its one of my favorite characteristics and is enough if a re-purchase ever occurred.  Simple things like the F-style rails have a second slot closer to the cutting edge for narrow stock and the joining rail function being fast and dummy proof.

Its important you dont miss understand where I'm coming from......brand loyalty means nothing to me.  I'm not painting my shop Red or Green!  Its about what tool makes your job easier and faster(time=money).  My tools make me Money and have to Perform.  Price is only one part of the equation and since I have a long career ahead its easier to gain over the long run.


Can you elaborate on this or post a picture showing that feature?
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: kent B on March 22, 2013, 12:38 PM
 I looked at both the Festool and Mafell MT-55cc .

 Comparing prices the Mafell with extra rails and shipping is approx $300 more , but the Mafell is a much better made saw.

 If I were a bit younger, and had some sons to pass the saws to , I would sure buy the Mafell.

 The timber framers I know use the Mafell's  , do not know any timber framers using the Festools.

Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Svar on March 22, 2013, 12:54 PM
Mafell guide rails are definitely superior as mentioned above. Rail connector is self-aligning (same goes to Bosch and EZ rail) acting on the same principle as Betterley StraightLine Connector. In addition, the rail has two T-slots on the bottom one close to the cutting edge that allows clamping of narrow stock.
Michael, here are some pictures:
http://www.woodworking.de/cgi-bin/holzbearbeitungsmaschinen/webbbs_config.pl/md/read/id/63546 (http://www.woodworking.de/cgi-bin/holzbearbeitungsmaschinen/webbbs_config.pl/md/read/id/63546)

There are lots of contraptions people put together to handle narrow stock with Festool rails, but I’m yet to see an elegant solution to that.
I think this is a weak point of the TS system, which Festool could fix perhaps at the cost of back compatibility. Hey, even EZ rail can clamp narrow stock.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Jalvis on March 22, 2013, 01:22 PM
Thanks for posting the photo.  Two clamping slots on the rails is great but my all time favorite is the self housing, fast setting, perfect alignment connector for the rails.  Oh.....and the slot holder for the guide strip is a major plus. I hate how my Festool guide strips start coming off.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Jalvis on March 22, 2013, 01:24 PM
i like the duo doweler but the domino stilll wins overall.

Well....wins for some applications.  You can't drill shelf pins with the Domino.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Alan m on March 22, 2013, 02:01 PM
i like the duo doweler but the domino stilll wins overall.

Well....wins for some applications.  You can't drill shelf pins with the Domino.
over all the domino wins but the duo doweler can do the shelf pins.
i used the duo doweler in colage. it was good but i found it a pian to keep aligned properly. a few of the holes were slightly mis aligned. not sure why
they both have a place in the arsenal of tools
i like how you can take off one bit and have only one dowel or put different sized bits on so that the piece can only go together one way
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Bob Gerritsen on March 23, 2013, 06:53 AM
I looked at both the Festool and Mafell MT-55cc .

 Comparing prices the Mafell with extra rails and shipping is approx $300 more , but the Mafell is a much better made saw.

 If I were a bit younger, and had some sons to pass the saws to , I would sure buy the Mafell.

 The timber framers I know use the Mafell's  , do not know any timber framers using the Festools.



Well I think that is because Festool doesn't really make saws for timber framing, Mafell does. Protool would be Festools timber framing/construction brand so to speak.

I didn't know Mafell is so much more expensive in the US. That's too bad.

It seems that Mafell, at least for now simply isn't that interested in finding a bigger market.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: GhostFist on March 23, 2013, 08:18 AM
Festool was a rarer item only a few years back and protool isn't available at all in na. Perhaps being a smaller company still, they dont have the resources for a north American push yet or they simply feel the premium premium market isn't as profitable here yet for power tools. Festool is showing up more and more on job sites  and are really pushing the marketing as of late. With their success I think we'll see more of of the premium brands here in a few years time.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Bob Gerritsen on March 24, 2013, 06:02 AM
I think Mafell still is a family business, for some reason I can imagine they're fine with the size they are. Mind you, I don't think Mafell was that much smaller when I started almost 20 years ago were as Festool, then Festo, clearly was. Even here in Europe you still have to search for a Mafell dealer were Festool has dealers in every town.

Whatever you think of them, they are an interesting brand. Mainly focused on timber framing/construction but then the couple tools they have that can be used in a precision wood shop are very precise indeed. They keep Festool on their toes and vice versa and that is great for all of us.

Seriously, we're a lucky bunch with all the precision tools that exist nowadays. And not even at the cost of hand tools, you mix your Festools and Mafells (Lamellos and Leicas etc) with your Lie-Nielsen, Veritas and what not and you have no more excuses, it sets the bar for a very high quality output. And I would even argue at a very reasonable cost.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Bob Marino on March 24, 2013, 08:55 AM
 Interesting discussion. Years ago, there was a collaboration of sorts  between the 2 companies. The Festool OF 2000 router was made (at least in part) by Mafell and Mafell's small router was Festool's OF 1000  router.

  Bob
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: GhostFist on March 24, 2013, 09:56 AM
On the subject of Festool and Mafell routers (I know next to nothing of Mafell routers). Swiss company Arunda has had dovetail routing templates for timber framing made specifically for the Mafell router, but are currently in Developement of a template for the OF 2200. Does this suit anyones fancy?

Check it out.... (Note conflicting background music and funny costumes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_UznNxvPrs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_UznNxvPrs)
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Jalvis on March 24, 2013, 01:42 PM
Thats a great promo video.  Although not exactly costumes......those are signs of great distinction in the Trades.

Once again Bob is making some valid points about competition and the age of artisan tools were all currently in.  The only negative(and Positive) of competition is patents.  Can you image what tools would be made if Festool and Mafell collaborated together?  Each company has some great features that if combined would make the ultimate in tools. 
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: jeep jake on March 24, 2013, 01:46 PM
depending on the price of the template I would be interested.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Bob Marino on March 24, 2013, 02:09 PM
Can you image what tools would be made if Festool and Mafell collaborated together?  Each company has some great features that if combined would make the ultimate in tools.  

On a similar but lighter note; IIRC and I may be off here,
But about 10 years ago I heard that one of the executives in Festool got married to one of the executives from Fein!
Black/green and orange!

Bob
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: GhostFist on March 25, 2013, 06:57 PM
I didn't even know how much they cost, just that there are templates in development  for the 2200  [big grin]
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: SRSemenza on March 25, 2013, 08:46 PM
For more on the timber framing jigs see Here (http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/timber-framing-router-jigs/msg249229/#msg249229)



Seth
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: thomatrix on February 28, 2014, 01:56 PM
Based on the input from you guys I actually ended up with buying the Mafell MT 55 cc. To give something back I have written a review that some of you might find helpful if you are in the market for either a Festool or Mafell:

http://deguno.com/tools/mafell-mt-55-cc-review-king-of-the-plunge-cut-saws (http://deguno.com/tools/mafell-mt-55-cc-review-king-of-the-plunge-cut-saws)

Thanks for all the great help!
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: thomatrix on February 28, 2014, 01:59 PM
For some reason I was not allowed to post a link so you will have to copy and paste the link above.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: ali on March 01, 2014, 05:37 AM
I don't think there is any one company that is necessarily better than others, but I have a mafell jigsaw and i use the mafell tracks on my bosch guide rail system. For me these are better than the festool equivalent, but mafell's range of products is limited.

But the build quality is really good and hard wearing.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: thomatrix on March 01, 2014, 03:28 PM
Fully agree - for that reason I have tools from Bosch, Makita, Dewalt, Festool, Mafell, Fein, Metabo, Hilti and a few others. All because they have something in their line-up that I have found to fit my requirements and therefore be the best for me.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Custard on March 02, 2014, 10:45 AM
I've never used a Mafell tool that's a direct competitor to Festool, but I have used a Mafell biscuit jointer and IMO it's better than the Lamello Top 20 biscuit jointer that I own. I believe Lamello avoided vertical height adjustment on their fences because they believed it would introduce inaccuracies, but Mafell went to town on their sliding fence and it's incredibly accurate throughout it's travel range...and stays accurate even after years of hard use. Their manuals are also better than Festool, but as Festool competes with The Lucky Dragon Tool Corporation of Guangdong for the world's worst manuals I guess that isn't too hard!

I'd certainly look seriously at Mafell tools in the future.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: NYC Tiny Shop on March 02, 2014, 11:02 AM
I've never used a Mafell tool that's a direct competitor to Festool, but I have used a Mafell biscuit jointer and IMO it's better than the Lamello Top 20 biscuit jointer that I own. I believe Lamello avoided vertical height adjustment on their fences because they believed it would introduce inaccuracies, but Mafell went to town on their sliding fence and it's incredibly accurate throughout it's travel range...and stays accurate even after years of hard use. Their manuals are also better than Festool, but as Festool competes with The Lucky Dragon Tool Corporation of Guangdong for the world's worst manuals I guess that isn't too hard!

I'd certainly look seriously at Mafell tools in the future.

 Festool USA supplies supplimental manuals for most, if not all, of their mainline power tools and they are extraordinarly excellent. They are also offered on line. Take a look.
 There's no arguing about the quality of Mafell tools. I think one would be hard pressed to find a better joiner , on the market today, than the Festool XL700.
  FWIW, companies whose tools that I also own that could improve on their manuals are DeWalt and Jet.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: TelcoRandy on March 02, 2014, 11:39 AM
Their manuals are also better than Festool, but as Festool competes with The Lucky Dragon Tool Corporation of Guangdong for the world's worst manuals I guess that isn't too hard!
I laughed out loud to that one. Hilarious and so true.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: r cash on March 02, 2014, 02:17 PM
I have both large and small Domino machines they serve a specific task and are great tools. Xl is a bit more useful.
I also have Mafell dowel machine it does things the dominos can't . For years Festools jigsaw was better than my Bosch.
Last year I got the mafell jigsaw it's so much more accurate than any jigsaw I have ever used.
The list of Mafell tools portable bandsaw  /portable  carpenters chainsaw that I have has no festool counter part.
 The dowel machine  and jig saw  and a Erika on order. My festool list is way long.
I buy the best tools to produce the best work I can.
Mafell/festool/Bosch /Sac/Laguna /Scmi/Powermatic/Maggi/Tigerstop /snap on all have roles in my 1500 soft small shop.
Yes I think my 25"digital controlled variable speed Laguna planer rocks better than most
It's just one tool that does a job among many.

John Ecomaki of bridge city tools said "Quality is contagious "

Working with wood is life long learning process enjoy it
Have a great day
Rc
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: jdw101 on April 30, 2017, 09:37 PM
I am saving right now for the Mafell jigsaw.  As far as I am concerned there is no equal to that product, all in though it's looking like nearly a 1400 dollar spend which is a lot of money for a hobbiest, this the saving part. 

The Carvex and others (I currently have a Bosch) jigsaws are great but that Mafell saw with the fence that lets you cut right up to the edge.. the upside down and reverse cutting, the huge blade you can drop on it.  I just love all the neat things that saw can do.  I also saw the aftermarket coping foot available for many, amazing right there!

If money was no object I would get the portable bandsaw too and the Erika for sure.  Still would have tons of Festool though.

Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Holvik on August 26, 2017, 04:26 PM
 [eek] 1400 dollars for Mafell P1CC ?
Is it a problem to import from Europe ?
P1CC from Denmark (https://www.dorchdanola.dk/mafell-stiksav-p1cc-maximax-i-mafell-max-kasse-917103.html)
I have this saw myself, sold my Festool saws Psc 420 & Psc 420 EB li.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Svar on August 26, 2017, 04:45 PM
[eek] 1400 dollars for Mafell P1CC ?
Is it a problem to import from Europe ?
No, its 760  USD from Timberwolf tools. I don't know where he got 1400.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Holvik on August 26, 2017, 04:55 PM
Ok, almost same price Europe/USA .
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: JimH2 on August 26, 2017, 05:40 PM
I don't think there is any one company that is necessarily better than others, but I have a mafell jigsaw and i use the mafell tracks on my bosch guide rail system. For me these are better than the festool equivalent, but mafell's range of products is limited.

But the build quality is really good and hard wearing.

A limited product line helps to ensure that build quality and function are the top concerns.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Birdhunter on August 26, 2017, 06:20 PM
How a tool feels in my hands is important. I can drive 15 minutes and handle any Festool product and even try it out. I can take the Festool product home and try it out in my shop. If I don't like it, I can return it to my local dealer. I can't do any of that with Mafell.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: McNally Family on August 26, 2017, 06:36 PM
How a tool feels in my hands is important. I can drive 15 minutes and handle any Festool product and even try it out. I can take the Festool product home and try it out in my shop. If I don't like it, I can return it to my local dealer. I can't do any of that with Mafell.

I'm sure the Festool is a fine saw.  My decision to purchase the Mafell saw was made based on my having the Mafell rails, which I purchased after buying the Mafell jig saw (which all research points to it being superior to the Festool jig saw).

Once the rail decision is made, the saw purchase is predetermined.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: ScotF on August 26, 2017, 07:58 PM
How a tool feels in my hands is important. I can drive 15 minutes and handle any Festool product and even try it out. I can take the Festool product home and try it out in my shop. If I don't like it, I can return it to my local dealer. I can't do any of that with Mafell.

I'm sure the Festool is a fine saw.  My decision to purchase the Mafell saw was made based on my having the Mafell rails, which I purchased after buying the Mafell jig saw (which all research points to it being superior to the Festool jig saw).

Once the rail decision is made, the saw purchase is predetermined.

Except the Mafell can ride either rail.... [big grin]
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Holmz on August 28, 2017, 08:42 AM
When did it become a competition?
The DX93 is nice, the domino is nice, and the MFT is OK... I do not have the BS105 yet.

For Mafell the jig saw, MT55 and the rails, and the eva115e are great.
The Erika I will fire up next weekend.

Then there is the deros, and the lamello gear.

Why not just get the best from each?
Being wedded to some belief of "Festool uber alles" seems like denial of factual reality.

Given that that old OF2000 was made by Mafell, and the early vacuums by Nilfisk makes it even just comical.

There is also a lot of Bosch and Metabo gear that also seems desirable.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: greg mann on August 28, 2017, 07:42 PM
When did it become a competition?
The DX93 is nice, the domino is nice, and the MFT is OK... I do not have the BS105 yet.

For Mafell the jig saw, MT55 and the rails, and the eva115e are great.
The Erika I will fire up next weekend.

Then there is the deros, and the lamello gear.

Why not just get the best from each?
Being wedded to some belief of "Festool uber alles" seems like denial of factual reality.

Given that that old OF2000 was made by Mafell, and the early vacuums by Nilfisk makes it even just comical.

There is also a lot of Bosch and Metabo gear that also seems desirable.


And Mafell rebadged the 1010 for a while.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Slider613 on August 30, 2017, 04:01 PM
just bugs me with the price disparity between Mafell in the US vs Europe, seems like with just one distributor they can price however they like. I'd like to try the Mafell Jigsaw, I have a Carvex and have never been that happy with it.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: amt on August 30, 2017, 07:22 PM
just bugs me with the price disparity between Mafell in the US

I ended up buying my Mafell saw from the UK and importing it.  The price was not much different than a TS55.  However, that may fluctuate as the USD to GBP changes.  I also probably don't have a warranty.

I'd like to try the Mafell Jigsaw, I have a Carvex and have never been that happy with it.

I did not like the Carvex either, but I have a problem with spending more than $400 on any jigsaw.  I ended up with a bare-tool cordless Bosch I already had Bosch 18v batteries) barrel style saw I got from UK as well (not available in US) for under $150.  It's brushless and works very well.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Slider613 on August 30, 2017, 10:14 PM
just bugs me with the price disparity between Mafell in the US

I ended up buying my Mafell saw from the UK and importing it.  The price was not much different than a TS55.  However, that may fluctuate as the USD to GBP changes.  I also probably don't have a warranty.

I'd like to try the Mafell Jigsaw, I have a Carvex and have never been that happy with it.

I did not like the Carvex either, but I have a problem with spending more than $400 on any jigsaw.  I ended up with a bare-tool cordless Bosch I already had Bosch 18v batteries) barrel style saw I got from UK as well (not available in US) for under $150.  It's brushless and works very well.

Did you just switch out the cord to use in a USA 110v outlet?

I probably should have saved the money originally and went with a Bosch.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: altiplano on September 22, 2017, 12:22 AM
I imported a MT55 from the UK too.

It was cheaper, all in, than a TS55 in Canada.
Plus it came with 2 rails, a connector, a rail bag and screw clamps.

Great saw.

Just changed the plug and in business.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Holmz on September 22, 2017, 03:29 AM
I imported a MT55 from the UK too.

It was cheaper, all in, than a TS55 in Canada.
Plus it came with 2 rails, a connector, a rail bag and screw clamps.

Great saw.

Just changed the plug and in business.

You're on a higher plane...
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: yetihunter on September 28, 2017, 01:40 PM
No way, dude, the Canadians and Northeasterners make way better hand planes than the Germans.   [smile]
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Cheese on September 28, 2017, 02:35 PM
I'd like to try the Mafell Jigsaw, I have a Carvex and have never been that happy with it.

I just traded my Trion & Carvex in for a Mafell P1 cc...no comparison. Hated to spend the $$$ but well worth it, I should have done it earlier before I spent money on a Milwaukee, then a Trion and finally the Carvex.  [doh]
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: altiplano on September 29, 2017, 08:55 AM
You're on a higher plane...

You got that right, Holmz...
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: maccruiskeen on September 29, 2017, 12:03 PM
For me the main difference is the rail.

As a tool for sawing the Mafell rail wins hands down - it has a narrower footprint so you can work on smaller pieces, its more robust, the splinter guard stays attached, the process of joining sections together is faster and stronger and automatically straightens the joint as you tighten it. It stays in place while you're working better (I haven't needed to use the clamps during the last 8 years of so of use)  The rail sections being a little longer makes them more useable too - supporting the saw beyond the start and finish of full board cuts. I find Festool rails delicate and clumsy by comparison.

Festool's benefit over Mafell is that their rail is part of a much larger system, it has more applications than just sawing. Its a jack off all trades compared to Mafell's master on one. But I can't help but feeling wishing they'd developed a better version of their rail before committing such a wide range of products and processes around it.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: GhostFist on September 29, 2017, 12:25 PM
Other than the parallel guides. What can festool rails do that mafell can't?
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Svar on September 29, 2017, 12:38 PM
For me the main difference is the rail.
As a tool for sawing the Mafell rail wins hands down - it has a narrower footprint so you can work on smaller pieces, its more robust, the splinter guard stays attached, the process of joining sections together is faster and stronger and automatically straightens the joint as you tighten it. It stays in place while you're working better (I haven't needed to use the clamps during the last 8 years of so of use)  The rail sections being a little longer makes them more useable too - supporting the saw beyond the start and finish of full board cuts. I find Festool rails delicate and clumsy by comparison.
It also has two t-slots on the bottom, one close to the cutting edge. Easy to clamp small/narrow pieces.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Svar on September 29, 2017, 12:47 PM
Other than the parallel guides. What can festool rails do that mafell can't?
Gecko suction clamp, dog rail clips, protractors and squares, flip stops, anti tip-over thingies, magnetic rail holders, etc. etc. I've seen many other custom jigs over the years on FOG and elsewhere that utilize that t-slot. It's handy to have an attachment point on your rail.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Cheese on September 29, 2017, 02:09 PM
Mafell Aerofix... [popcorn]
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Svar on September 29, 2017, 02:16 PM
Mafell Aerofix... [popcorn]
Here is my ignorant opinion: I have not tried it, but it looks cumbersome.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Cheese on September 29, 2017, 02:45 PM
I haven’t tried one either...I just thought that it’d be useful for installing new HVAC vents in hardwood flooring. I usually use the TS and a rail but I’m always nervous about any rail movement. The Aerofix would give me one less thing to worry about.   [smile]
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Svar on September 29, 2017, 02:54 PM
I haven’t tried one either...I just thought that it’d be useful for installing new HVAC vents in hardwood flooring. I usually use the TS and a rail but I’m always nervous about any rail movement. The Aerofix would give me one less thing to worry about.   [smile]
You can't put Aerofix flat on the floor because of hose attachment contraption. Only works on a table etc., where it can hang off the edge.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Cheese on September 29, 2017, 03:12 PM
The hose attachment contraption can be mounted underneath or topside.

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-aerofix-f-af-1-suction-clamping-system
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: McNally Family on September 29, 2017, 03:22 PM
I haven’t tried one either...I just thought that it’d be useful for installing new HVAC vents in hardwood flooring. I usually use the TS and a rail but I’m always nervous about any rail movement. The Aerofix would give me one less thing to worry about.   [smile]
You can't put Aerofix flat on the floor because of hose attachment contraption. Only works on a table etc., where it can hang off the edge.

As Cheese pointed out, the device can be used on top or bottom of rail:


https://www.timberwolftools.com/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/image/e9c3970ab036de70892d86c6d221abfe/m/a/mafell_aerofix_f-af_1_suction_clamping_system_diagrams_204770.jpg


**EDIT just realized link had just been posted.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Svar on September 29, 2017, 03:25 PM
I haven’t tried one either...I just thought that it’d be useful for installing new HVAC vents in hardwood flooring. I usually use the TS and a rail but I’m always nervous about any rail movement. The Aerofix would give me one less thing to worry about.   [smile]
You can't put Aerofix flat on the floor because of hose attachment contraption. Only works on a table etc., where it can hang off the edge.
As Cheese pointed out, the device can be used on top or bottom of rail:
https://www.timberwolftools.com/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/image/e9c3970ab036de70892d86c6d221abfe/m/a/mafell_aerofix_f-af_1_suction_clamping_system_diagrams_204770.jpg
Ok, ok, I got it. No need to rub it in.  [big grin]
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Cheese on September 29, 2017, 03:26 PM
Just curious McNally if you own one? Looking for feedback.  [smile]
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: McNally Family on September 29, 2017, 03:32 PM
Just curious McNally if you own one? Looking for feedback.  [smile]

Not yet, but it is on my list to purchase, since I already have my rails.  Once I finish my KSS60 (or KSS50) saw purchase this will be next.

@GhostFist has it, and is wise in all things Mafell.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: SouthRider on September 29, 2017, 09:03 PM
So - the aerofix  track and hose IS compatible with festool plunge saws?
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: antss on September 29, 2017, 09:20 PM
Rider , I don't think anyone has said that. 

MAfell saws will work on FT tracks , but not vice versa. 

The hose would be close enough to fit, but the vacuum assembly won't work on a FT track.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: SouthRider on September 29, 2017, 09:26 PM
Cool - thanx!
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Svar on September 29, 2017, 09:34 PM
FT track has space between non-slip strips for Aerofix-like fixture to work. It is possible to cobble something like this together or 3D print it for Festool. Mass production though might be impeded by copyright issues.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: GhostFist on October 05, 2017, 06:25 AM
Come check out my banned web forum for lots of feedback on mafell stuff including the aerofix.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: yetihunter on October 13, 2017, 09:20 PM
Never heard of it.  8)
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: McNally Family on October 14, 2017, 01:34 AM
Never heard of it.  8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuOmKBRtNa8
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Steven Owen on October 14, 2017, 03:49 PM
i like the duo doweler but the domino stilll wins overall.

Well....wins for some applications.  You can't drill shelf pins with the Domino.
over all the domino wins but the duo doweler can do the shelf pins.
i used the duo doweler in colage. it was good but i found it a pian to keep aligned properly. a few of the holes were slightly mis aligned. not sure why
they both have a place in the arsenal of tools
i like how you can take off one bit and have only one dowel or put different sized bits on so that the piece can only go together one way

I would think the doweler would have a slight advantage in joining plywood over the domino because your not breaking through as many layers of the ply by drilling larger holes than dowels.  You’re also able to drill deeper holes in the the plywood with dowels creating more glue surface area than the 500 series domino.   

I’m surprised Festool hasn’t bought out Mafell.  It would be good fit within the Festool line-up.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Holmz on October 14, 2017, 05:20 PM
..
I’m surprised Festool hasn’t bought out Mafell.  It would be good fit within the Festool line-up.

How would it be a good fit?

There have been  a number of rebranded tools that Festool "makes" over the years.
- The tape measure
- The Nilfisk Vacuums
- The previous Mafell routers
- The belt sander (Was that an AEG?)
- The cement mixer looks like an Eibenstock
- The Tanos made systainers

None of them seemed to be improved by making them change color to green.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Peter Halle on October 14, 2017, 06:11 PM
..
I’m surprised Festool hasn’t bought out Mafell.  It would be good fit within the Festool line-up.

How would it be a good fit?

There have been  a number of rebranded tools that Festool "makes" over the years.
- The tape measure
- The Nilfisk Vacuums
- The previous Mafell routers
- The belt sander (Was that an AEG?)
- The cement mixer looks like an Eibenstock
- The Tanos made systainers

None of them seemed to be improved by making them change color to green.

I guess that if Mafell was purchased by Festool that would really bother you based on your post.

Just an observation.

Peter
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Holmz on October 14, 2017, 07:03 PM
..
I’m surprised Festool hasn’t bought out Mafell.  It would be good fit within the Festool line-up.

How would it be a good fit?

There have been  a number of rebranded tools that Festool "makes" over the years.
- The tape measure
- The Nilfisk Vacuums
- The previous Mafell routers
- The belt sander (Was that an AEG?)
- The cement mixer looks like an Eibenstock
- The Tanos made systainers

None of them seemed to be improved by making them change color to green.

I guess that if Mafell was purchased by Festool that would really bother you based on your post.

Just an observation.

Peter

I like competition and options.
The concept of a buy-out seemed to imply that the tools would somehow improve if they carried a Festool badge...

˜˜˜˜˜˜

I cut ~3 sheets of MDF yesterday (doing mostly Rip-cuts), and have a couple more cuts before doing a Chaos wall in the garage today.
Need some organisation to happen.

Using fimit (Conformit?) screws with a "snappy tools" countersink drill, next to a 10.8V A10M drill.
I need to haul out the MFT, and get the Aus-dogs in place to trim the MDF to length (in cross cut fashion) with the Mt55.
Then later I will get the Festool rebranded Zobos out of the Centrotek box, along with the nice Festool Brad point drill-bit in 6-mm, and then put in some countersinks for anchor bolts in the MDF to it stays on the wall.

Obviously I am either colour blind, or I have cognitive discomfort with tools that are mis-matched in brand.

The only cognitive discomfort is in my understanding how such a buy-out would improve things for me and others using the tools?
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Michael Kellough on October 14, 2017, 07:15 PM
@Holmz the belt sander is from the Holz-Her factory.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Holmz on October 14, 2017, 07:32 PM
@Holmz the belt sander is from the Holz-Her factory.

Yeah that was my most recent Festool purchase.  [big grin]
Used and it looks like it has done a few miles in every sense.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: aloysius on October 14, 2017, 08:04 PM
..
I’m surprised Festool hasn’t bought out Mafell.  It would be good fit within the Festool line-up.

How would it be a good fit?

There have been  a number of rebranded tools that Festool "makes" over the years.
- The tape measure
- The Nilfisk Vacuums
- The previous Mafell routers
- The belt sander (Was that an AEG?)
- The cement mixer looks like an Eibenstock
- The Tanos made systainers

None of them seemed to be improved by making them change color to green.

I guess that if Mafell was purchased by Festool that would really bother you based on your post.

Just an observation.

Peter

I'd personally be seriously concerned by a hostile takeover of Mafell too.  I too am a fan not only of free competition within the power tool marketplace, but of cooperative & collaborative alliances between corporate entities too, but only so far as these relationships don't evolve into anticompetitive oligarchies.

Take the takeover of Holz Her's power tools division.  Prior to the takeover, the company had an extensive, high quality of range of plunge & rail saws that competed on relatively equal terms with the other industry leader, Mafell.  They also produced an interesting little compound saw that Festo marketed as "their" Symmetric.   There were cooperative relationships with the Atlas Copco group producing AC, Milwaukee & AEG belt sanders, plus similar relationships with Metabowerke & Wuerth.  Plus former build & later licencing arrangements with Robert Bosch.  This is possibly a mere suggestion of the true depth of cooperative relationships that existed prior to the Festo "Anschluss".  This in addition to HolzHer's own native branded product.

The net result of the Anschluss?  No ongoing commercial collaborative relationships at all that I'm aware of.  I've also heard that yet another subsequent result was the total destruction of the entire parts inventory of the former Holz Her product that the new owners discontinued!  I cannot confirm with any veracity the truth of these claims, but if true, to "blackmail" former Holz Her owners & users into new product verges on the unconscionable.

No more superior quality Wuerth, Metabo, AEG, Atlas Copco or Holz Her belt sanders either:  only "Festool" branded product at about twice the price previously charged for the alternatives.  This isn't the only example of the deleterious consequences of the annexation of other middle European power toolmakers either.  There's Narex, Kraenzle et al.

Should the same or similar situation occur to such a fine manufactory as Mafell I contend that it would, at least from a competitive and collaborative, not to mention laissez faire perspective, be an unmitigated disaster for tool users.  The thought that some of these fine tool lines could be "dumbed down" or worse still disappear from the catalogue together with their spare parts production & inventory, forcing users into such inferior alternatives makes me shudder in fear.

What of the long term health of other SMEs within the German tool manufacturers association with whom Mafell collaborates?  Metabowerke?  Eibenstock?  Robert Bosch?  Kress Elektrik?  What would be the future of those fine tools that these companies produce collaboratively?  Would tens of thousands of users the world over be left high & dry for want of strategic spare parts & maintenance items?  Over my cooling, lifeless body, thank you very much!
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Steven Owen on October 14, 2017, 09:51 PM
..
I’m surprised Festool hasn’t bought out Mafell.  It would be good fit within the Festool line-up.

How would it be a good fit?

There have been  a number of rebranded tools that Festool "makes" over the years.
- The tape measure
- The Nilfisk Vacuums
- The previous Mafell routers
- The belt sander (Was that an AEG?)
- The cement mixer looks like an Eibenstock
- The Tanos made systainers

None of them seemed to be improved by making them change color to green.

I don’t see Mafell being incorporated into Festool.  Mafell is a great brand.  There’s no reason to mess with it.  Bosch, Stanley Black and Decker, Emerson, ect all own multiple tool brands.

Mafell would simply become another brand under the Festool.  Festool’s international distribution system would allow Mafell to be sold in more countries making the brand more accessible to more users.

Rather than Canadians having to buy and ship Mafell half way across North America, Mafell tools could be sold by all of Festool’s dealers and the Festool Shop.  There’s a lot of counties around the world that don’t have a Mafell dealer at all.

More people around the world would be exposed to the Mafell brand of Festool owned Mafell.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Cheese on October 14, 2017, 10:17 PM
The synergies just don’t work in this situation. This is a marriage that will never be. You can prompt, encourage and promote a wedding, however it will ultimately go bust.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: antss on October 14, 2017, 11:23 PM
Is Mafell publicly traded ?

Gonna be real difficult trying to takeover a closely held, private company.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Cheese on October 15, 2017, 12:37 AM
I believe it is a privately held company.

Just working through the thought process....Festool, being an international company that has less than 10% of the tool market then purchases Mafell, another German tool company that has less than 1% of the tool market. What's the upside for either company? It costs huge $$$ to gain what?

They've already purchased Sawstop for reasons unknown.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Holmz on October 15, 2017, 05:26 AM
...
I don’t see Mafell being incorporated into Festool.  Mafell is a great brand.  There’s no reason to mess with it.  Bosch, Stanley Black and Decker, Emerson, ect all own multiple tool brands.

Mafell would simply become another brand under the Festool.  Festool’s international distribution system would allow Mafell to be sold in more countries making the brand more accessible to more users.
...

Look I like rainbows and unicorns as much as the next bloke.
But capitalism is built upon making a profit, not looking out for customer interests.
You guys may need to build a wall if the companies in Canada give more than a passing thought of a flying-F about their customers.
The CEO are disconnected from the customer base, and they work for the shareholders...


I was impressed with our Kiwi brother's cogent thought and eloquent execution of delivery.

..
I’m surprised Festool hasn’t bought out Mafell.  It would be good fit within the Festool line-up.

How would it be a good fit?

There have been  a number of rebranded tools that Festool "makes" over the years.
- The tape measure
- The Nilfisk Vacuums
- The previous Mafell routers
- The belt sander (Was that an AEG?)
- The cement mixer looks like an Eibenstock
- The Tanos made systainers

None of them seemed to be improved by making them change color to green.

I guess that if Mafell was purchased by Festool that would really bother you based on your post.

Just an observation.

Peter

I'd personally be seriously concerned by a hostile takeover of Mafell too.  I too am a fan not only of free competition within the power tool marketplace, but of cooperative & collaborative alliances between corporate entities too, but only so far as these relationships don't evolve into anticompetitive oligarchies.

Take the takeover of Holz Her's power tools division.  Prior to the takeover, the company had an extensive, high quality of range of plunge & rail saws that competed on relatively equal terms with the other industry leader, Mafell.  They also produced an interesting little compound saw that Festo marketed as "their" Symmetric.   There were cooperative relationships with the Atlas Copco group producing AC, Milwaukee & AEG belt sanders, plus similar relationships with Metabowerke & Wuerth.  Plus former build & later licencing arrangements with Robert Bosch.  This is possibly a mere suggestion of the true depth of cooperative relationships that existed prior to the Festo "Anschluss".  This in addition to HolzHer's own native branded product.

The net result of the Anschluss?  No ongoing commercial collaborative relationships at all that I'm aware of.  I've also heard that yet another subsequent result was the total destruction of the entire parts inventory of the former Holz Her product that the new owners discontinued!  I cannot confirm with any veracity the truth of these claims, but if true, to "blackmail" former Holz Her owners & users into new product verges on the unconscionable.

No more superior quality Wuerth, Metabo, AEG, Atlas Copco or Holz Her belt sanders either:  only "Festool" branded product at about twice the price previously charged for the alternatives.  This isn't the only example of the deleterious consequences of the annexation of other middle European power toolmakers either.  There's Narex, Kraenzle et al.

Should the same or similar situation occur to such a fine manufactory as Mafell I contend that it would, at least from a competitive and collaborative, not to mention laissez faire perspective, be an unmitigated disaster for tool users.  The thought that some of these fine tool lines could be "dumbed down" or worse still disappear from the catalogue together with their spare parts production & inventory, forcing users into such inferior alternatives makes me shudder in fear.

What of the long term health of other SMEs within the German tool manufacturers association with whom Mafell collaborates?  Metabowerke?  Eibenstock?  Robert Bosch?  Kress Elektrik?  What would be the future of those fine tools that these companies produce collaboratively?  Would tens of thousands of users the world over be left high & dry for want of strategic spare parts & maintenance items?  Over my cooling, lifeless body, thank you very much!

Got the Chaos-wall pushed further along and a bit sunburnt too.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: McNally Family on October 15, 2017, 07:06 AM
Speaking of Mafell.....

KSS 50cc is now available for purchase on the Timberwolf website......

www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-kss-50cc-cross-cutting-system


sorry if this has already been posted.  I did not see it if it was.

Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: yetihunter on October 15, 2017, 07:32 AM
Presumption assumption, what's your function?   
Pertaining to it getting Holz in Herr, I'm gonna take off all (of) my clothes:

Here are some alternate assumptions...

Holz-Herr wanted to ditch it's saw division (power tools).
Holz-Herr couldn't keep up with making belt sanders for other manufacturers.
Festool Tooltechnic doesn't have the production capacity to fulfill random large
belt sander orders for 10 or so companies.
The companies outsourcing belt sanders were already planning to go to
an Asian manufacturer that could/can.
Holz-Herr were losing market share of large circular saws to the likes of Makita.
Festool tried to compete with those Holz-Herr saws under the Protool brand and
they couldn't regain that market share. 

People just don't buy those types of belt-sanders anymore.   I too would charge an
arm and a leg if I was in their shoes.  If it's sitting in the warehouse, waiting for
the tiny fraction of customers to make a once and a while purchase, the product is
going to have to pay it's rent.   




Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Holmz on October 15, 2017, 06:04 PM
Well I used the belt sander yesterday.
It is good, and for my tastes I like it better than the RO ones I tried (which chose direction like divining rods before Noah's trip.)
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: yetihunter on October 20, 2017, 12:17 AM
(which chose direction like divining rods before Noah's trip.)

I love you, Holmz.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Steven Owen on October 20, 2017, 01:26 AM
The most intriguing tool for me in Mafell’s line-up would the the Mafell Doweller.  Mafell has really thought out the process of quickly jointing multiple plywood pieces quickly and accurately with their system.

Their template system makes plywood jointing look effortless and much easier than the Domino. I still plan to buy the DF 700 first.  I’d buy a doweller before I’d buy the DF 500.

Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Cheese on October 20, 2017, 01:46 AM
Their template system makes plywood jointing look effortless and much easier than the Domino.

Just curious...have you used a Domino before?

Make a mark...choose a bit...plunge. Biscuits, Domino’s or dowels. The process is the same, however the outcome may be different.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Michael Kellough on October 20, 2017, 11:24 AM
The most intriguing tool for me in Mafell’s line-up would the the Mafell Doweller.  Mafell has really thought out the process of quickly jointing multiple plywood pieces quickly and accurately with their system.

Their template system makes plywood jointing look effortless and much easier than the Domino. I still plan to buy the DF 700 first.  I’d buy a doweller before I’d buy the DF 500.

Did Mafell buy Hoffmann? Looks like the old Hoffmann PDS 32.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Svar on October 20, 2017, 12:11 PM
Did Mafell buy Hoffmann? Looks like the old Hoffmann PDS 32.
Freud used to make FDW710, which is the same thing. Then there are Felisatti RF 12710 (a copy of Freud or vice versa), DWL850 from an obscure company called 909, and of course Triton TDJ600. So, six different manufacturers. I don't know who came first.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: McNally Family on October 20, 2017, 01:31 PM
Did Mafell buy Hoffmann? Looks like the old Hoffmann PDS 32.
Freud used to make FDW710, which is the same thing. Then there are Felisatti RF 12710 (a copy of Freud or vice versa), DWL850 from an obscure company called 909, and of course Triton TDJ600. So, six different manufacturers. I don't know who came first.

Here is a link for an old auction, for the Hoffmann PDS32.  It certainly looks like the current Mafell product.

https://www.bidspotter.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/capital-recovery-group/catalogue-id-cap10089/lot-7f40ac60-8d89-4b5e-893d-a46d00e09dc9

Here is a picture and article for the Freud dowler, which sold for around $350.00.  It does also resemble the Mafell product:

http://www.rockler.com/how-to/the-freud-dowel-joiner-a-new-take-on-an-old-technique/
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Steven Owen on October 20, 2017, 01:35 PM
Their template system makes plywood jointing look effortless and much easier than the Domino.

Just curious...have you used a Domino before?

Make a mark...choose a bit...plunge. Biscuits, Domino’s or dowels. The process is the same, however the outcome may be different.

I will be buying the DF 700 when I get my taxes back next year.  I’ll have an opportunity to use the Domino first.  I’ve been using a router and a Dado on a Table Saw for loose tenons.  The router table saw approach works if you have nothing but time on your hands.

I’m hoping the domino will allow me to double the number of furniture pieces I make every year.

Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Cheese on October 20, 2017, 01:50 PM

I’m hoping the domino will allow me to double the number of furniture pieces I make every year.


You'll be pleasantly surprised with the speed of project execution.  [cool]
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Timtool on October 20, 2017, 02:01 PM
@Steven Owen
I find their doweller magnificent, but in the same time I hate dowels. Gluing them is time consuming and messy when compared to dominos.
Plus the domino is more versatile, I use mine for solid wood nearly exclusively but can always use it when needed on plywood, where I generally prefer dado joints. The doweller is really only useful on sheet goods, and even then it's not really a production tool. So I don't really know what to think of it, I'd like to have one just to admire it, but wouldn't know what the heck to do with it.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: JimH2 on October 20, 2017, 05:50 PM
@Steven Owen
I find their doweller magnificent, but in the same time I hate dowels. Gluing them is time consuming and messy when compared to dominos.
Plus the domino is more versatile, I use mine for solid wood nearly exclusively but can always use it when needed on plywood, where I generally prefer dado joints. The doweller is really only useful on sheet goods, and even then it's not really a production tool. So I don't really know what to think of it, I'd like to have one just to admire it, but wouldn't know what the heck to do with it.

Have you ever used one? I seriously doubt it. The Duo Doweler does everything the Domino plus some and works perfectly as a production tool with or without the template system. I have used both extensively having had a Domino for many years before buying a Duo Doweler. The dowels work just fine and gluing is easy with the provided glue bottle. BTW it also works on non-sheet goods including composite materials. You might try looking at view of the videos that are readily available on youTube.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: JimH2 on October 20, 2017, 05:53 PM
Their template system makes plywood jointing look effortless and much easier than the Domino.

Just curious...have you used a Domino before?

Make a mark...choose a bit...plunge. Biscuits, Domino’s or dowels. The process is the same, however the outcome may be different.

No reason to get into the comparison process of the different joining techniques and their strengths. It's a dead end road with no clear winner.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: grobkuschelig on October 20, 2017, 06:03 PM
I have not used a „dual doweler“ yet, but have used round dowels for years. The one thing that makes the Domino a winner for me is that, having only one „dowel“ (minimal space required) you already get a rotation free connection. Not achievable with a single round dowel...

YMMV.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: antss on October 20, 2017, 06:12 PM
I believe Hoffmann to still be an independent concern.

Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: amt on October 20, 2017, 06:22 PM
What's the smallest diameter dowel the dual doweller uses?  I used the Domino to strengthen a miter in my kitchen bench seat, 10 feet long.  With the domino, it was easy.  With dowels, I am not even sure there's dowels small enough diameter to do the job (the material was 18mm), and it would take at least 2x the dowels to do it.  The rectangular cross section of the domino was perfect for this.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Peter Halle on October 20, 2017, 06:46 PM
I believe Hoffmann to still be an independent concern.

Yep. https://hoffmann-usa.com (https://hoffmann-usa.com)
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Cheese on October 20, 2017, 06:48 PM
No reason to get into the comparison process of the different joining techniques and their strengths. It's a dead end road with no clear winner.

That’s the reason I didn’t go there. It all depends upon what you want for a final solution.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Steven Owen on October 20, 2017, 07:10 PM
@Steven Owen
I find their doweller magnificent, but in the same time I hate dowels. Gluing them is time consuming and messy when compared to dominos.
Plus the domino is more versatile, I use mine for solid wood nearly exclusively but can always use it when needed on plywood, where I generally prefer dado joints. The doweller is really only useful on sheet goods, and even then it's not really a production tool. So I don't really know what to think of it, I'd like to have one just to admire it, but wouldn't know what the heck to do with it.

Have you ever used one? I seriously doubt it. The Duo Doweler does everything the Domino plus some and works perfectly as a production tool with or without the template system. I have used both extensively having had a Domino for many years before buying a Duo Doweler. The dowels work just fine and gluing is easy with the provided glue bottle. BTW it also works on non-sheet goods including composite materials. You might try looking at view of the videos that are readily available on youTube.

No, Mafell’s aren’t readily available in Canada unless you know some one who owns one.

I’ve used the Triton doweller during some weekend and night classes at NAIT.  I have a good idea how the doweller can work.  Granted the Triton was largely inferior to the Mafell and Freud.

The projects dictate the tool.  Chairs and benches require jointing stock that isn’t wide enough for the doweller.  The DF 700 is a better fit for narrow stock.

Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Holmz on October 20, 2017, 07:24 PM
Not sure how the tuition is inferior. After using both, can you elaborate?

The domino 500 may be even better for narrower stock than the 700?
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Steve Rowe on October 20, 2017, 07:30 PM
I will weigh in on the Domino and Mafell Duo-doweler since I have them and use them all. 
1) Doweling is much faster and much more precise than the domino.  Plunging of doweler works best when done as fast as possible where the domino is a slow and steady plunge for best results.
2) Gluing dowels is much less time intensive than gluing dominos and there are actually commercially available dowel glue dispensers that don't exist for the domino.
3) Dowels are much less expensive than dominos until the size gets beyond 12mm. 
4) The doweler is better suited for sheet goods than the domino. 
5) The doweler also works well on furniture as long as the width of the workpiece is 2" or wider. 
6) For narrower, stock the domino is the better choice. 
7) The doweler is limited to 40mm depth, the domino 500 is limited to 28mm deep while the domino 700 is limited to 70mm. 
8) For large and deep connections, the domino 700 is the better choice.
9) You can get away with using larger dowels than you can dominos in the same thickness stock.

The Hoffman PDS32 doweler is no longer available and was re-badged and manufactured by Mafell.  Too bad it is no longer marketed since it was much less expensive than the Mafell offerings for the identical machine. 

I recently did a series of videos on duo dowelers.  To get an idea of speed, this is demonstrated in the following video starting shortly after the 12 minute mark. 

Duo Doweler (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3E0L1RVx80)
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: antss on October 20, 2017, 08:03 PM
Quote
What's the smallest diameter dowel the dual doweller uses?

I believe it's 3mm.

Perhaps Steve can confirm ?
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Svar on October 20, 2017, 09:02 PM
Not sure how the tuition is inferior.
This is how:
https://youtu.be/pqa3oRyB1Mg   there are 4 parts.
Build quality basically
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Svar on October 20, 2017, 09:18 PM
What's the smallest diameter dowel the dual doweller uses?  I used the Domino to strengthen a miter in my kitchen bench seat, 10 feet long.  With the domino, it was easy.  With dowels, I am not even sure there's dowels small enough diameter to do the job (the material was 18mm), and it would take at least 2x the dowels to do it.  The rectangular cross section of the domino was perfect for this.
There are two models. 700W with 3 to 12 mm cutters, and 1000W with 5 to 16 mm.  Although you can fit 3 mm on a 1000W model (same thread). So yes, greater range than Domino.
Regardless, Doweler vs Domino is a spoon vs fork argument.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Cheese on October 20, 2017, 09:42 PM
Regardless, Doweler vs Domino is a spoon vs fork argument.

I prefer to eat peas with a fork...you?   [popcorn] [popcorn]
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Svar on October 20, 2017, 10:07 PM
I prefer to eat peas with a fork...you?   [popcorn] [popcorn]
Spoon, just out of spite.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Steve Rowe on October 20, 2017, 10:08 PM
The smallest size is 3mm but Mafell does not recommend with the DD40P as the speed is too slow.  The 3mm bit is suitable for the DD40G. The smallest I have used is 5mm and it works great.  The largest I have used is 12mm.  I will not go to 16mm dowels as the bits are over $100 each and that size dowel is very expensive (more expensive than 14mm dominos).

On the Triton; my only advice is caveat emptor.  The Triton could not do accurate joinery.  For me, the Triton is absolutely the worst power tool purchase I have made in the past 45 years and that includes a lot of tools. 
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Cheese on October 20, 2017, 10:50 PM
Spoon, just out of spite.

Good come back...
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Holmz on October 20, 2017, 11:06 PM
Not sure how the tuition is inferior.
This is how:
...

Build quality basically

That is more along the line of testimony, which is not as good as evidence, but it is better than a statement of fact without any supporting stuff.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Steven Owen on October 20, 2017, 11:49 PM
Not sure how the tuition is inferior. After using both, can you elaborate?

The domino 500 may be even better for narrower stock than the 700?

The Triton was not very accurate.  You would always do a test cut and use a shim to center it.  The Triton had terrible alignment.  I brought my Jessem Dowel Jig to class the next day because it was that bad.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Timtool on October 21, 2017, 04:48 AM

Have you ever used one? I seriously doubt it. The Duo Doweler does everything the Domino plus some and works perfectly as a production tool with or without the template system. I have used both extensively having had a Domino for many years before buying a Duo Doweler. The dowels work just fine and gluing is easy with the provided glue bottle. BTW it also works on non-sheet goods including composite materials. You might try looking at view of the videos that are readily available on youTube.

I work with solid wood mostly so the vast majority of joints I make fall outside of the DD's possibilities, mainly due to the stock not being wide enough. And when it's wide enough then I would never use dowels any way, but an actual custom width mortice made with either domino. Because solid wood rails that are wide enough for the DD usually have to support great tensions.

What I mean with it not being a production tool, is that a business cannot seriously rely on the DD as the main means of joining panels. I can see it being used for the smaller scale project, or for a starting business. But for those I would still advise the much more versatile domino. But I join all my production cabinets with dado type joints, I seriously can't afford to spend a crazy amount of time joining each part with a hand tool. To on top of that end up with a result that can support far lesser stress. That makes no economical sense.
Now if I'd make particle board kitchen cabinets all day, then I'd love to have one just in case. But again, never as a main production tool.

As I said it's a great tool, but with non negligible application limits. For that price I would rather invest in a Lamello zeta.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Steven Owen on October 21, 2017, 01:38 PM
The smallest size is 3mm but Mafell does not recommend with the DD40P as the speed is too slow.  The 3mm bit is suitable for the DD40G. The smallest I have used is 5mm and it works great.  The largest I have used is 12mm.  I will not go to 16mm dowels as the bits are over $100 each and that size dowel is very expensive (more expensive than 14mm dominos).

On the Triton; my only advice is caveat emptor.  The Triton could not do accurate joinery.  For me, the Triton is absolutely the worst power tool purchase I have made in the past 45 years and that includes a lot of tools.

For me I would love to have both the Mafell and the DF 700 Domino.  There’s no point getting a DF 500 if you can buy the Seneca bit to run 500 dominos using the DF 700.

You don’t gain anything by buying two domino machines in a small shop.  The Mafell provides some good jointing options for things like TV stands and small furniture.  The longer dowels will create much stronger supporting joints than 500 dominos on angled pieces.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Steve Rowe on October 21, 2017, 04:26 PM
The smallest size is 3mm but Mafell does not recommend with the DD40P as the speed is too slow.  The 3mm bit is suitable for the DD40G. The smallest I have used is 5mm and it works great.  The largest I have used is 12mm.  I will not go to 16mm dowels as the bits are over $100 each and that size dowel is very expensive (more expensive than 14mm dominos).

On the Triton; my only advice is caveat emptor.  The Triton could not do accurate joinery.  For me, the Triton is absolutely the worst power tool purchase I have made in the past 45 years and that includes a lot of tools.

For me I would love to have both the Mafell and the DF 700 Domino.  There’s no point getting a DF 500 if you can buy the Seneca bit to run 500 dominos using the DF 700.

You don’t gain anything by buying two domino machines in a small shop.  The Mafell provides some good jointing options for things like TV stands and small furniture.  The longer dowels will create much stronger supporting joints than 500 dominos on angled pieces.

Given you have already indicated you don't own any of them, from whence did you gain all your experience and knowledge to offer advice on the aforementioned tools?
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Steven Owen on October 21, 2017, 05:09 PM
The smallest size is 3mm but Mafell does not recommend with the DD40P as the speed is too slow.  The 3mm bit is suitable for the DD40G. The smallest I have used is 5mm and it works great.  The largest I have used is 12mm.  I will not go to 16mm dowels as the bits are over $100 each and that size dowel is very expensive (more expensive than 14mm dominos).

On the Triton; my only advice is caveat emptor.  The Triton could not do accurate joinery.  For me, the Triton is absolutely the worst power tool purchase I have made in the past 45 years and that includes a lot of tools.

For me I would love to have both the Mafell and the DF 700 Domino.  There’s no point getting a DF 500 if you can buy the Seneca bit to run 500 dominos using the DF 700.

You don’t gain anything by buying two domino machines in a small shop.  The Mafell provides some good jointing options for things like TV stands and small furniture.  The longer dowels will create much stronger supporting joints than 500 dominos on angled pieces.

Given you have already indicated you don't own any of them, from whence did you gain all your experience and knowledge to offer advice on the aforementioned tools?

I’ve used the domino before on several outdoor table and chair projects in a class.  The DF 700 and DF 500.  A lot of colleges hosting wood working courses have them.  I’ve been taking night classes after work at different trade colleges to improve my skills.  I never used the Mafell.  Because not very many people or colleges in Canada have any Mafell gear.  Festool is more readily available.

I own and use the Jessem dowel jig all the time.  Dowels are dowels.  The Mafell is simply a much faster way of installing dowels.  The Senca bit works very well.  Aside from being lighter, there’s not much reason to buy a 500 unless you find the 700 heavy.  I like the added weight of 700 over the 500.  That’s a personal preference.

I’m not buying the Mafell next year.  I’m buying the DF 700 first.  I’ll put it through the paces on several indoor and outdoor projects.  My opinion will probably evolve at that time with more projects under my belt.

I’m not spending my 2018 tax return on a DF 700 because I don’t have any faith in the product.

Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Holmz on October 21, 2017, 06:31 PM
The smallest size is 3mm but Mafell does not recommend with the DD40P as the speed is too slow.  The 3mm bit is suitable for the DD40G. The smallest I have used is 5mm and it works great.  The largest I have used is 12mm.  I will not go to 16mm dowels as the bits are over $100 each and that size dowel is very expensive (more expensive than 14mm dominos).

On the Triton; my only advice is caveat emptor.  The Triton could not do accurate joinery.  For me, the Triton is absolutely the worst power tool purchase I have made in the past 45 years and that includes a lot of tools.

For me I would love to have both the Mafell and the DF 700 Domino.  There’s no point getting a DF 500 if you can buy the Seneca bit to run 500 dominos using the DF 700.

You don’t gain anything by buying two domino machines in a small shop.  The Mafell provides some good jointing options for things like TV stands and small furniture.  The longer dowels will create much stronger supporting joints than 500 dominos on angled pieces.

Given you have already indicated you don't own any of them, from whence did you gain all your experience and knowledge to offer advice on the aforementioned tools?

I’ve used the domino before on several outdoor table and chair projects in a class.  The DF 700 and DF 500.  A lot of colleges hosting wood working courses have them.  I’ve been taking night classes after work at different trade colleges to improve my skills.  I never used the Mafell.  Because not very many people or colleges in Canada have any Mafell gear.  Festool is more readily available.

I own and use the Jessem dowel jig all the time.  Dowels are dowels.  The Mafell is simply a much faster way of installing dowels.  The Senca bit works very well.  Aside from being lighter, there’s not much reason to buy a 500 unless you find the 700 heavy.  I like the added weight of 700 over the 500.  That’s a personal preference.

I’m not buying the Mafell next year.  I’m buying the DF 700 first.  I’ll put it through the paces on several indoor and outdoor projects.  My opinion will probably evolve at that time with more projects under my belt.

I’m not spending my 2018 tax return on a DF 700 because I don’t have any faith in the product.

The flow of ideas is a bit staccato with ideaoids and factoids, and hence I cannot as easily follow it as many others probably can.

You say you are buying the DF700 first, and then close with not buying a DF700 beciuase do not have faith in it... These concepts seems contradictory?
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Peter Halle on October 21, 2017, 07:33 PM
@Holmz , He said that he was planning on buying the 700 next year and then giving it a try.

Hope this helps.

Peter
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Holmz on October 21, 2017, 07:40 PM
@Holmz , He said that he was planning on buying the 700 next year and then giving it a try.

Hope this helps.

Peter

Did I read his closing sentence wrong?
That was my question...

...
I’m not spending my 2018 tax return on a DF 700 because I don’t have any faith in the product.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Peter Halle on October 21, 2017, 07:57 PM
I believe you did.  My translation would be that he wouldn't be spending his money on the 700 if he didn't believe in it.  That was re enforced by his previous statement.

Peter
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Michael Kellough on October 21, 2017, 08:55 PM
@Holmz , He said that he was planning on buying the 700 next year and then giving it a try.

Hope this helps.

Peter

Double negative equals positive...
Did I read his closing sentence wrong?
That was my question...

...
I’m not spending my 2018 tax return on a DF 700 because I don’t have any faith in the product.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Steven Owen on October 21, 2017, 09:08 PM
I believe you did.  My translation would be that he wouldn't be spending his money on the 700 if he didn't believe in it.  That was re enforced by his previous statement.

Peter

Peter has it right. 

I want to make my own bedroom furniture.  I also wanted to make my mom a rocking chair.  The DF 700 is the right tool for the job.  The 700’s connectors are critical in making a bedframe that can breakdown easily.  Most of the upcoming projects I have planned are a better fit for the DF 700 dominos. 

The Mafell doweller is a wishlist item. 

Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Trosey on October 21, 2017, 09:16 PM
A previous poster stated that " Dowels are dowels."

I think I can agree with that statement.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Holmz on October 22, 2017, 05:56 AM
A previous poster stated that " Dowels are dowels."

I think I can agree with that statement.

Tautologies are certainly easier to follow than sentences without punctuation
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: SRSemenza on October 22, 2017, 09:12 AM
A previous poster stated that " Dowels are dowels."

I think I can agree with that statement.

Tautologies are certainly easier to follow than sentences without punctuation


     dowels are not dowels i can not agree with that statement


Seth
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Holmz on October 22, 2017, 05:44 PM
A previous poster stated that " Dowels are dowels."

I think I can agree with that statement.

Tautologies are certainly easier to follow than sentences without punctuation


     dowels are not dowels i can not agree with that statement


Seth

Youre driving me into a comma
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: vege-mity-mite on October 22, 2017, 06:54 PM
On the Triton; my only advice is caveat emptor.  The Triton could not do accurate joinery.  For me, the Triton is absolutely the worst power tool purchase I have made in the past 45 years and that includes a lot of tools.

I have to agree with this.  The Triton I have isn't machined to any accuracy - joints come out crooked and off by a few mm in all directions and by an inconsistent amount each time.  No amount of shimming could make up for the machining and excessive play.  There is no comparison to the mafell doweller I bought afterwards - it's a pleasure to use.  Buy once, cry once!
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Steven Owen on October 22, 2017, 09:11 PM
On the Triton; my only advice is caveat emptor.  The Triton could not do accurate joinery.  For me, the Triton is absolutely the worst power tool purchase I have made in the past 45 years and that includes a lot of tools.

I have to agree with this.  The Triton I have isn't machined to any accuracy - joints come out crooked and off by a few mm in all directions and by an inconsistent amount each time.  No amount of shimming could make up for the machining and excessive play.  There is no comparison to the mafell doweller I bought afterwards - it's a pleasure to use.  Buy once, cry once!

We all make bad tool buying decsions.  I’m glad that was someone else’s Triton.  Aside from being slow, the Jessem dowel jig created superior joints to the Triton. 

The DowelMax is accurate but you watch your hair turn grey trying to use the DowelMax for a large number of joints. 

By the time you accessorize the DowelMax you’re nearly half way to buying the Mafell Doweller.

The Mafell track saw has a lof great design elements you wish more track saw makers would implement. 

The power planer.  I prefer hand planes over power tools for planing.  It’s hard to justify spending 5 grand on a powered hand planer.  I could see the Mafell planer getting a lot of mileage for guys building high-end decks.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: ScotF on October 22, 2017, 10:37 PM
The power planer is designed for processing large beams that cannot be surfaced easily any other way.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Steven Owen on October 23, 2017, 12:49 AM
The power planer is designed for processing large beams that cannot be surfaced easily any other way.

That’s why I mentioned decks.  The guys on the HGTV series “Deck Out”, use the Mafell on large beams for pricey deck projects they work-on for wealthy people. 

A lot of tool companies make power hand planes.  I’ve yet use on I’ve ever liked using.  Many of them make your hands numb with vibration. 
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: DB10 on October 23, 2017, 04:16 AM
The power planer is designed for processing large beams that cannot be surfaced easily any other way.

That’s why I mentioned decks.  The guys on the HGTV series “Deck Out”, use the Mafell on large beams for pricey deck projects they work-on for wealthy people. 

A lot of tool companies make power hand planes.  I’ve yet use on I’ve ever liked using.  Many of them make your hands numb with vibration.

 I've got a corded Bosch and a cordless Makita power plane and have never noticed any vibration on either of them, today I was levelling out a stud wall with the Bosch hooked up to my midi and no shavings or sawdust to clear up. Imagine the mess if that was done using a hand plane.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Steven Owen on October 23, 2017, 10:58 AM
The power planer is designed for processing large beams that cannot be surfaced easily any other way.

That’s why I mentioned decks.  The guys on the HGTV series “Deck Out”, use the Mafell on large beams for pricey deck projects they work-on for wealthy people. 

A lot of tool companies make power hand planes.  I’ve yet use on I’ve ever liked using.  Many of them make your hands numb with vibration.

 I've got a corded Bosch and a cordless Makita power plane and have never noticed any vibration on either of them, today I was levelling out a stud wall with the Bosch hooked up to my midi and no shavings or sawdust to clear up. Imagine the mess if that was done using a hand plane.

For field work and construction they make sense.  I was using a different brand, Rigid on cypress deck boards.  It worked but hands were numb from the vibration coming off the Rigid.  Emerson killed this product off it was so bad.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Michael Kellough on October 23, 2017, 11:07 AM
The power planer is designed for processing large beams that cannot be surfaced easily any other way.

That’s why I mentioned decks.  The guys on the HGTV series “Deck Out”, use the Mafell on large beams for pricey deck projects they work-on for wealthy people. 

A lot of tool companies make power hand planes.  I’ve yet use on I’ve ever liked using.  Many of them make your hands numb with vibration.

The Festool 850 is pretty smooth.
Title: Re: Festool and mafell
Post by: Steven Owen on October 24, 2017, 01:38 PM
The power planer is designed for processing large beams that cannot be surfaced easily any other way.

That’s why I mentioned decks.  The guys on the HGTV series “Deck Out”, use the Mafell on large beams for pricey deck projects they work-on for wealthy people. 

A lot of tool companies make power hand planes.  I’ve yet use on I’ve ever liked using.  Many of them make your hands numb with vibration.

The Festool 850 is pretty smooth.

Without a doubt.  I don’t do any work onsite.  Powered planers are mostly targeted for finishers and installers work onsite.  For shop work, hand planes are offer more control and finishing options over a powered planer.