Author Topic: Refurb's....... a Rant!!!  (Read 3481 times)

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Offline Jim Dailey

  • Posts: 278
Refurb's....... a Rant!!!
« on: February 12, 2007, 12:54 PM »
This is a bit of a rant....

My business is seasonal and the winter is the lean time of the year, thus in December I was debating which "tax year" for a refurb C12 and several other Festool purchases....  Plus trying to figure out what the "stocking dealer" changes translated to the bottom line cost of the product, and my supplies (my consumables orders alone will easily run hundreds of $$$)   I had called the Festool desk and asked about 2007 price raises...  Last years 3% turned out to be a lot more on some items I was thinking about at the time (Clamping elements from $56 to $80, and long rails etc.)  Thus the "once bitten, twice..."  I was informed this year no price changes on Jan 1st.

In Jan I call to check availability of a C12 refurb, to be told "an hour earlier" that the program was cut because a dealer had been abusing the program selling the refurbs as "new"...  Needless to say I was not happy!!! 

I've picked up at least three of my Festool tools thru this program.  I was planning several more...  I didn't abuse the program.  I was just looking at saving a few dollars.  From my prospective the New Year brought a 10 to 20 to 30% raise on a number of tools that I would have purchased had I a clue that the program was ending...  Just like making an informed decision about purchase of a price raise or a new tool discount ending on a specific date.

jim

Life is just a series of projects...

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Offline Gary E

  • Posts: 100
Re: Refurb's....... a Rant!!!
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2007, 01:13 PM »
Yeah, all it takes is one  $%#^@ person to screw it up for everyone.

I was thinking refurb as well, but read somewhere that the program had been stopped. I'll have to save a little longer now for my tools.

Gary
Gary

Still learning the easy stuff.

Offline Per Swenson

  • Posts: 871
  • So far deep in rural nj, there are no Neighbors
    • Swenson&Swenson
Re: Refurb's....... a Rant!!!
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2007, 02:26 PM »
I apologize in advance if this comes off the wrong way..

But here is what I do.

Charge more.  Gas goes up, I pass it on.

Building materials went up 50 to 100%.

My prices for jobs are 30 days.

You come back a Year later and its not one of the

Hundred Thousand plus babys, you get a new price.

The big jobs, we will make adjustments somewhere.

So whats the point Per?

Simple. Charge what your worth and buy new.

Per
Party like its 1929. It's the American way.


There outta be a law banning sesquipedalianism on

internet forums.

www.swensonz.com

Offline Gary E

  • Posts: 100
Re: Refurb's....... a Rant!!!
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2007, 04:10 PM »
No problem here Per.

Unfortunately I don't make much money at this hobby, so refurbs help me get tools for less.

Gary
Gary

Still learning the easy stuff.

Offline Jim Dailey

  • Posts: 278
Re: Refurb's....... a Rant!!!
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2007, 04:48 PM »
Hi Per,

To quote my long dead father.... "It's not how much you ring up in the till.... it's how much you have left on the bottom (of the till draw) once you pay everyone else...."

jim
Life is just a series of projects...

Offline JayStPeter

  • Posts: 364
Re: Refurb's....... a Rant!!!
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2007, 05:06 PM »
Bummer.  Of the 5 Festools I own, 2 refurb, 1 used, 2 new. 
Jay St. Peter

Offline Dan Clermont

  • Festool Dealer
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  • Posts: 1097
  • Canadian Festool Dealer
    • Ultimate Tools
Re: Refurb's....... a Rant!!!
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2007, 10:31 PM »
I am pretty new to the Festool world and got my TS-55 as a demo the day before they stopped the program :).

Had I known they would stop the program I would have bought the OF 1400 as well and as soon as I read on a forum that Festool discontinued the program I called my ISA who confirmed this was true. I then sent e-mails to Festool with a possible solution which would have been to prevent ISA's from buying and selling refurbs and only Festool Head Office could sell Refurbs but I don't think they want to do that.

Buying tools at a demo / refurb price was a huge deal for me even though it was only 10% off. I can't bill my expensive tools on a job as I use them to build for friends and family and I don't think my Mother In Law would approve if I told her I'd have to charge her for using my saw blade when I install her hardwood floors or she is going to have to pay me ANYTHING for work around her house. My wife is the same and to be honest I don't really have a tool budget at all as we have two small kids and money is tight.

Most of the tools in my shop are refurbs from the local Dewalt / PC factory outlet down the street as I am using hobby money and operate on a shoestring budget.

Recently I sold a whack of old moulding planes, a collectible book ($100US) and my only router hoping to have enough cash for the Festool OF 1400 but I am about $100 short cause I need to buy clamps ($37.50), guide stop ($60), edge guide ($52) and a couple of other things so this is gonna add up to $600US, Pretty pricey considering most of my friends are buying Triton routers and very happy with them. These friends are paying $200Cdn at Busy Bee Tools.

I'd sure like to see the ISA punished and not the end customers who work hard to save their dollars for these very nice tools. Saving even 10% on a $395 purchase is a big deal to me. Saving 30% on a refurb puts a hobbiest like me into the Festool world

Your all probably shaking your head cause I sold my router but to be honest I got a good dollar for it and I have access to another PC router at work so I ain't totally stuck just mildly inconvenienced. Maybe for Father's day my wife and kids will splurge and make up the difference for the Festool OF 1400 but till then I may be out of luck >:(

Like I said before. It is too bad some of us have to suffer because some ISA (Independent Sales Agent) was abusing the system. He should be punished and not us.

Dan Clermont
« Last Edit: February 13, 2007, 12:19 AM by Dan Clermont »
Canadian Festool Dealer and User!!!
https://www.ultimatetools.ca/
604.291.9663

Offline Dan Uhlir

  • Posts: 138
    • www.danuhlir.com
Re: Refurb's....... a Rant!!!
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2007, 11:12 PM »
My hourly rate and then double that for overhead, or per-haps someone else will do it for less i.e. you in this case. If I buy a four hundred dollar tool to work on someone else's stuff someone else is gonna buy the tool.dig. Overhead in direct relation to labor. try it you'll like it. peace dan p.s.

Offline Dan Clermont

  • Festool Dealer
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  • Posts: 1097
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    • Ultimate Tools
Re: Refurb's....... a Rant!!!
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2007, 11:36 PM »
My hourly rate and then double that for overhead, or per-haps someone else will do it for less i.e. you in this case. If I buy a four hundred dollar tool to work on someone else's stuff someone else is gonna buy the tool.dig. Overhead in direct relation to labor. try it you'll like it. peace dan p.s.

Hi Dan

Some of us are hobbiest and can't really charge much of anything. Others who probably work in the cabinet making industry such as yourself can't be bothered to buy a tool which may only have a 1 year warranty and your going to use it day in day out.

I see both sides to this argument. I think the general hobbiest sees the benefit in buying a demo/refurb tool cause he compares it to a Porter Cable or what have you and says the Festool is a way better tool for slightly more money.

The guy who builds cabinets for a living definitely is going to use the tool everyday and needs a 3 year warranty and probably doesn't want to call Festool to see if they have a reconditioned RO-150 cause he needs it now and can't wait.

Just my 2 cents
« Last Edit: February 13, 2007, 12:07 AM by Dan Clermont »
Canadian Festool Dealer and User!!!
https://www.ultimatetools.ca/
604.291.9663

Offline Lou Miller

  • Posts: 482
  • North Wales, PA
    • Some of my work
Re: Refurb's....... a Rant!!!
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2007, 04:43 AM »
Some of us are hobbiest and can't really charge much of anything. Others who probably work in the cabinet making industry such as yourself can't be bothered to buy a tool which may only have a 1 year warranty and your going to use it day in day out.

I see both sides to this argument. I think the general hobbiest sees the benefit in buying a demo/refurb tool cause he compares it to a Porter Cable or what have you and says the Festool is a way better tool for slightly more money.

The guy who builds cabinets for a living definitely is going to use the tool everyday and needs a 3 year warranty and probably doesn't want to call Festool to see if they have a reconditioned RO-150 cause he needs it now and can't wait.

Just my 2 cents

I don't think warranty plays into this as much as you think. I'm "in the cabinet making business", and I've inquired several times about demos and refurbs. I was pretty bummed when I found out they discontinued the program. I think someone that is new to Festool might have more of an issue with a shortened warranty. However, someone like me that is now very accustomed to what you get with Festool, wouldn't think twice about it. For the savings in upfront cost, I'd have no problem giving up some of the warranty. Besides, most of the problems I've had with tools over the years have all occured in the first couple months of owning them anyway. Just about every warranty claim I've ever had was because the tool wasn't made right to begin with. If tools are made correctly (which Festools almost always are) they'll last just fine if you take proper care of them. That means the new guy that is really wet behind the ears doesn't even get to look at them, let alone use them. :)

I had hoped to pick up a CT33 as a demo or refurb, oh well...

Offline LaserGecko

  • Posts: 161
  • Tools Smarter Than Operator
Re: Refurb's....... a Rant!!!
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2007, 11:57 AM »
Wow, this sounds like my day job:

One person was a dick, so let's make a new rule to punish everyone forever instead of punishing just the person responsible.

That's pretty disappointing to read coming from Festool.
Jason Creager
Las Vegas, NV