Author Topic: Festool/ Mafell Rails  (Read 13697 times)

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Offline Cheese

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Festool/ Mafell Rails
« on: April 17, 2015, 11:04 AM »
 Quote from JimH2

   
    "No matter what anyone buys take a look at the Mafell rail system. To say it is vastly superior to the Festool one is an understatement. The ends are perfectly square and their rail connector bests the use of two metal rods with recessed screws. I know you buy the Betterley rail squaring tool, but why should you? I am all in on Festool rails with virtually ever size except to 106" (too short for plywood) and the 197" (too long to be practical). The reason for all the lengths is that connector system is marginal at best. Festool could easily best what they currently have, though it would disappoint a lot of people."





@JimH2
I take it that the Mafell rails won't work on Festool tools?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 01:49 PM by SRSemenza »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline JimH2

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2015, 12:10 PM »
@JimH2
I take it that the Mafell rails won't work on Festool tools?

They won't, but the Mafell tools will work with the Festool rails. There is a plastic insert in the foot that can be removed to allow them to ride the rails (so to speak). You can search for "Mafell on Festool rails" for more info.

And Bosch (Europe/UK only) makes the exact same rails as Mafell (or one makes the others or licensed it).

Offline elfick

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2015, 03:13 PM »
OK, has anyone investigated using Festools on a Mafell/Bosch rail? Their rail system with all the accessories looks amazing.

Offline jnug

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Mafell rail system
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2015, 03:30 PM »
     Not commenting at all about what works and won't work Mafell to Festool or Festool to Mafell. But I have to admit to being surprised at how reasonable the pricing was for their rails. Again it might be a mute point in my case if they won't work with the Festool TS75. But they are not all that pricy. Nobody paying for Festool rails would be bowled over by the prices I am seeing for the Mafell rails.




« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 03:54 PM by SRSemenza »

Offline JimH2

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2015, 04:53 PM »
OK, has anyone investigated using Festools on a Mafell/Bosch rail? Their rail system with all the accessories looks amazing.

They work. There are videos on YouTube you can watch (I think).

A quick read and rapid response to an earlier question got me. The correct answers are:

No: Festool on Mafell rails
Yes: Mafell on Festool rails (A good interim move until you can purchase some Mafell rails).

The unfortunate thing about the rails is that the longest one sold in the US is 5.2ft. The rails come in 2.6, 3.6, 5.2, 6.9, and 10.2 ft. Even though the connector is great I'd prefer having the 10.2 ft rail for sheet goods.

So the only way to do sheet goods is to purchase two 5.2ft rails as a 5.2ft & 3.6ft is too short (you need at foot on either side of the material).
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 01:02 PM by JimH2 »

Offline Linbro

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2015, 05:49 PM »
No, you can't use Festool tools on the Mafell guide rails.
Mafell make the rails for Bosch.
Yes, they are far superior to the Festool rails. (I have/use both brands)
The Mafell MT55 (plunge saw) will work on the Festool rails, but the better rail was part of the reason I upgraded to the Mafell saw, but I kept a couple of Festool rails for use with my 1400 router.

Offline elfick

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2015, 03:12 PM »
Are the dimensions of the Mafell rail available anywhere? It seems like an interface plate might make it possible.

Offline Linbro

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2015, 06:10 PM »
That's the other great thing about the Mafell/Bosch rails - you don't need an extra foot either end of the rail, you can cut the full length from start to finish of rail.

Offline JimH2

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2015, 08:22 PM »
That's the other great thing about the Mafell/Bosch rails - you don't need an extra foot either end of the rail, you can cut the full length from start to finish of rail.

Good to know. I bought the P1cc, but am holding off on rails until I get the MT55. Another plus for Mafell.

Offline jacko9

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2015, 08:25 PM »
Good discussion and since I haven't purchased a track saw (yet) I'm interested in this comparison from users of each or both saws and track systems.  One question I have is can I connect the Mafell saw to my Festool Ct extractor without a lot of interface issues?

Jack

Offline thedude306

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2015, 08:55 PM »
Good discussion and since I haven't purchased a track saw (yet) I'm interested in this comparison from users of each or both saws and track systems.  One question I have is can I connect the Mafell saw to my Festool Ct extractor without a lot of interface issues?

Jack

No issues with the Mafell saw on the CT extractor.  I had a CT36ac in the shop for a couple weeks and it connected fine. 

I know some guys think this is crazy, but the Mafell/bosch rails are one of the best parts of the track saw.  There are lots of other great things about the Mafell, but the rails are far superior IMO.  Both saws have good points and will serve you well, but the rails put the MT55 over the top. 

There are lots of items available for the mafell/bosch rails as well, you just can't get most in NA.   I've chosen to import some of those and it's been great.
Brad T.

Offline Linbro

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2015, 08:56 PM »
Yes you can, Jack. I run my MT55 with my CT Midi. The 27mm hose fits straight in, but I use the 36mm hose with the Festool reducer. Dust collection is superb.

Offline Luzzy

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2015, 10:35 PM »
My own personal saws are Mafell MT55,KSS300,400. For work we use The TS55/75 and a bunch of different rail lengths.

The main reason i switched personally to the Mafell saws was initially the tracks. I hated the Festool connection system and having to align it with another tool after connecting. With the Mafell F160 rails it's fast and simple and straight. I don't need long lengths because the shorter ones just work.Even when connected.

The MT55 is a great saw and I would say built like a tank. The TS55 is also a pleasure to use. But the rails system of the Mafell wins hands down. Oh and that little KSS300 , well it's an incredibly compact but ridiculously versatile saw.

Offline jacko9

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2015, 12:06 AM »
Thanks for the info guys,

Jack

Online ScotF

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2015, 01:07 AM »
I have both Mafell and Festool rails. Mafell rails attach to each other much easier than Festool as others have said. The rubber strips are mounted inside a channel so no coming off or messy adhesive to deal with and the sides are machined so that they are dead straight and square. They are thicker and more rigid. There are two clamping channels on the bottom so you can clamp thin stock right on the cut edge, which is nice when working with narrow stock. The plastic cap on the end prevents the hose and cord snagging the entire width of the rail.

Festool's rail system has more NA accessories and I actually like the green strips on top that the saw rides along - less friction and less wear to the base plate of your saw. But, attaching rails is a pain and the plastic end piece to keep the hose and cord from snagging only covers part of the width of the rail and your cord can sometimes get caught in the channel.

Online SRSemenza

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2015, 02:11 AM »
That's the other great thing about the Mafell/Bosch rails - you don't need an extra foot either end of the rail, you can cut the full length from start to finish of rail.

I am not sure I follow ........ what is different that makes it so you don't need extra rail for run in / out at both ends of a cut?

Seth

Offline Linbro

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2015, 03:09 AM »
The saw base stays locked onto the rail for the whole length - it has a continuous groove that accepts the rib on the rail. Maybe the base is longer than the TS55? I only found this out when I first cut the splinter strip.
I should have said, you still want some run in/out, you just don't need anywhere near as much - eg. the 2100 rail is plenty long enough to rip a standard 2040mm door.
And yes, you can tighten /loosen the saw to the rail.

Offline elfick

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2015, 04:00 AM »
Are the adjustment nibs inside the diameter of the blade? It seems like that would be the only way to increase the cut length.

Offline andy5405

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2015, 06:45 AM »
I always enjoy a "Top Trumps" tool discussion when someone is banging on about Festool. The Mafell user steps in and it's normally game over.

Offline elfick

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2015, 11:01 AM »
Anyone able/willing to put together a sketchup of a mafell rail? Or get a good pic of the profile and some dimensions?
I checked the ketchup warehouse but didn't find anything and google hasn't turned up an useful images.
I'm convinced an interface shoe would allow the TS to ride the mafell rail.

Offline JimH2

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2015, 11:12 AM »
The saw base stays locked onto the rail for the whole length - it has a continuous groove that accepts the rib on the rail. Maybe the base is longer than the TS55? I only found this out when I first cut the splinter strip.
I should have said, you still want some run in/out, you just don't need anywhere near as much - eg. the 2100 rail is plenty long enough to rip a standard 2040mm door.
And yes, you can tighten /loosen the saw to the rail.

I will caveat this with I like to be plunged before entering a cut (unless a plunge cut is required).

One other note on the rails is the splinter strip which is huge improvement as it slides into a profile on the edge of the real. Mafell really put some thought into their rail design (groove for saw base, slide in splinter strips, easy multiple rail connections, etc). I attached an image that highlights their rails.

I have never had much luck replacing my Festool ones. I have tried a lot methods, but none seem to work. Thinking is was the tight roll it comes on I took the time to layout under the rail and allow it to go flat before applying it. It seems the adhesive is just not as good as what comes from the factory. On my next replacement I am going to take some fine sandpaper to scuff up the adhesion area.


Offline Qwas

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2015, 12:18 PM »
Let me point out a big difference in these 2 guide rail systems. The most important thing on the rail is the channel that the saw will be riding on. This is important for saw stability and safety. Since this channel is the highest point on the guide rail, you need to think about it getting bumped and knocked around.

The Festool channel is over 5/8 inch wide and 1/4 inch tall. It also has radiuses edges. 

The Mafell channel is 1/10 inch wide and 1/8 inch tall. The edges have no notice radius.

The Festool channel will be more "solid" (less willing to bend) to side forces. The Mafell channel, with no radius, is very likely to get nicked and damaged during transport without the bag. I would keep a file handy to smooth out those nicks.

Looking at the Mafell MT-55 saw base, I would say you need as much guide rail overhanging the workpiece as you do with the Festool system. The MT-55 saw base is very similar to the TS-55 saw base. You can google the saws model numbers and go to "images" to see the bases.

Both guide rails have about the same thickness so there are no advantages there.

Offline Locks14

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2015, 01:45 PM »
Let me point out a big difference in these 2 guide rail systems. The most important thing on the rail is the channel that the saw will be riding on. This is important for saw stability and safety. Since this channel is the highest point on the guide rail, you need to think about it getting bumped and knocked around.

The Festool channel is over 5/8 inch wide and 1/4 inch tall. It also has radiuses edges. 

The Mafell channel is 1/10 inch wide and 1/8 inch tall. The edges have no notice radius.

The Festool channel will be more "solid" (less willing to bend) to side forces. The Mafell channel, with no radius, is very likely to get nicked and damaged during transport without the bag. I would keep a file handy to smooth out those nicks.

Looking at the Mafell MT-55 saw base, I would say you need as much guide rail overhanging the workpiece as you do with the Festool system. The MT-55 saw base is very similar to the TS-55 saw base. You can google the saws model numbers and go to "images" to see the bases.

Both guide rails have about the same thickness so there are no advantages there.

Hello All.

First post here, been a long time lurker but this post caused me to want to join.

I am a long time Mafell user and also have some significant investment in Festool. I like both equally as brands, but favour some tools over the other between the two brands.

Festool have the better routers, the domino machines are unique and fantastic and Festool try to innovate more than any other tools manufacturer I can think of.

That said the jigsaw and track saw from Mafell is far superior.

As for the above comment, having used both, the Mafell rails are far superior.  Their shape and profile make them less susceptible to deforming and as noted above less of the rail length is wasted compared to Festool. As for the height of the channel, etc this is certainly a difference but neither a pro nor a con. The Mafell rails I have had for 6+ years take daily use and transport without being wrapped in cotton wool and never have they got nicked or needed filing down. It's a moot point and clutching at straws to try to justify this as a benefit.

The most important aspect of the rails IMO, is the fact that they align perfectly when connecting two rails together and two 1600mm rails joined are just as good as a single rail of the same length, there's no need to buy the bigger rails unless you are 100% shop based and use them all day every day.

I have also used the Bosch equivalent that Mafell make for Bosch and that is 95% as good as the Mafell saw at approx £100-£150 less money and uses the same rails.

So my preference would be:

1) Mafell
2) Bosch
3) Festool

Offline saweet

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2015, 03:38 PM »
locks14 - I couldn't of said it any better myself !

Offline jnug

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2015, 11:41 PM »
Seems a shame that the Bosch track saw is not available in the US so that we could at least have a look at in the flesh.

The Mafill design for the rails does look very nice. Has the look of a precision instrument. I was wondering if there anything about the Mafill/Bosch rails besides that connecting system that makes them more of a precision instrument than the Festool. In other words, if you don't have to connect them up and putting aside the strip and whether it is easy or hard to install, is there anything about the Mafill/Bosch rail that makes it more on a precision measuring/marking instrument than the Festool?

Online ScotF

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2015, 12:44 AM »
The sides of the rails are machined and thus perfectly straight and square. The rubber strip fits in a channel and so will not come unglued. The protector on the end covers the enter width of the rail and so no chance of the cord/hose snagging at all. There are also two sets of track on the bottom allowing for clamping stock right at the cut line - so you can work with really narrow stock safely. The rails are slightly thicker too - so a little more rigid.

Now - I personally like the little green strips on the top of the rail of Festool rails to aid sliding the saw and protecting the saws shoe and so that is a plus for Festool. But the Mafell rails seem to be a little better engineered in most other areas IMHO.

Offline elfick

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2015, 09:02 AM »
as noted above less of the rail length is wasted compared to Festool
Can someone please explain why this would be the case?
Are there no adjustment nibs? If so, are they closer the the middle of the saw? If not, is play a concern?

You really don't need as much track lead in/out if you are willing to plunge into the material. I don't have my TS with me to measure, but on the 55 I suspect it is approximately 6-8". The actual lead in would be from the rear nib to the blade centerline. Lead out would be from the front nib to the blade centerline.

Regardless, I don't see how this is a function of the rail rather than the tool.

I had originally jumped on the thread because The Mafell rails do look very well engineered and have a couple improvements over the Festool rails. I had been thinking of an interface shoe to allow the TS to run on a Mafell rail, but after playing with a few ideas, it didn't really make much sense. The Mafell rail is already thicker and adding a shoe which would be, at a minimum, as thick as the height of the guide spur, would significantly reduce the TS cut depth.

An interface shoe may still be a good idea for the flexible Mafell rail, but for the rigid rail, it seemed better to address the shortcoming(s) of the Festool rail. So far, it seems the posted benefits of the Mafell rail are:

   1) Thicker, thus more rigid
   2) Nicer splinter strip
   3) Two clamping channels
   4) Machined ends
   5) Better End cover
   6) Significantly better connector

I'm playing with some ideas for #6.

For the rest, I can't really see that there is much to be done except to design a new extrusion that combines the Mafell rail design with a Festool channel. I don't see any reason this couldn't be done. Googling for "custom aluminium extrusion" gives quite a few hits. The only downside to this is that you'd loose so cut depth due to the thicker rail. The EZSMART Guide Rail Extrusion probably comes close. http://www.eurekazone.com/product_p/ezxh736264.htm

To be honest, though I see the benefit in all this items, only the connector makes enough of a difference to me to be worth pursuing.

Offline promark747

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2015, 09:49 AM »

So far, it seems the posted benefits of the Mafell rail are:

   
   5) Better End cover
   

As for #5, it bugs me that Festool hasn't redesigned this simple little piece.  From what I've read, this end cover was for the previous generation of rail, and Festool didn't change it when they came out with the new ones.

Offline jnug

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2015, 12:27 PM »
I would think the the way the strip interfaces to the rail itself would have been easy enough to address in the original design. Its an extrusion right. So you just design the extrusion with a slot for the strip and BANG.....no more adhesive for strip to rail interface. Sliding a composite or rubber into a the slot of an aluminum extrusion has been around for a pretty long time now. So unless Mafill has some sort of use patent floating around, that one would seem to have been a matter of just thinking about it long enough to come to that conclusion.

Offline Cheese

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2015, 12:41 PM »
I would think the the way the strip interfaces to the rail itself would have been easy enough to address in the original design. Its an extrusion right. So you just design the extrusion with a slot for the strip and BANG.....no more adhesive for strip to rail interface. Sliding a composite or rubber into a the slot of an aluminum extrusion has been around for a pretty long time now. So unless Mafill has some sort of use patent floating around, that one would seem to have been a matter of just thinking about it long enough to come to that conclusion.

Think floor sweeps/weather strips on the bottom of storm doors. They all slide into an extruded slot. However, if Mafell has a patent on the rail, maybe they've included the slot as one of the claims on the patent.

Offline fshanno

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2015, 01:01 PM »
We're always figuring out stuff to do with the Festool guides specifically because they have channels.  I know that has value for me.
The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline thedude306

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2015, 02:54 PM »
The connectors are what sold me.  The anti-splinter strips are a BIG plus but not a deal breaker. 

It's the ability to have perfectly straight rails in seconds while attaching them together.  And that means I don't need anything longer then 1600mm which is nice for storage and transportation.

The only thing that I have not found is a set of parallel guides that work with min effort, if that is important to you.  It hasn't been for myself.   I would like seneca to make some sort of adapter?? 

Brad T.

Offline jdw101

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2017, 09:45 PM »
Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better.  I am anxiously saving for the p1cc but some of the really annoying things about my rails I didn't realize Mafell has solved.  That is disturbing, I can't afford to have to save for more Mafell tools, darn they are expensive.


Offline McNally Family

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2017, 11:00 PM »

@jdw101

For me, I was not invested in any track saw platform, but I knew I liked the P1cc jigsaw, which can also be used with the Mafell rails.  Essentially, it was my jigsaw purchase that led me to the rail system, that will now lead me the Mafell track saw (soon I hope).

The only Festool rail I currently own is the FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail, for use with my newly acquired Festool 1400 router.

I can honestly say it was all the information found on the FOG, that guided me in my decision making.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 11:05 PM by McNally Family »
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) | Next  Purchase: A new sander by Christmas |

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline Cheese

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2017, 11:21 PM »

I can honestly say it was all the information found on the FOG, that guided me in my decision making.
 

Ya, well it was probably the incessant banter of @Holmz that perpetuated that Mafell sale. Personally, I think he gets a kick-back on all Mafell & Mirka sales...

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2017, 11:59 PM »
one thing MAFELL does not have: a FOG forum caliber voice on this continent.
We keep getting a steady trickle of requests for MAFELL / TSO Guide Rail Squares. The MAFELL track sample at my desk is a constant reminder. We are watching the marketing progress of MAFELL over here for the time where this development can make economic sense. It requires a substantially different mechanical approach than our FESTOOL oriented GRS-16 series but is definitely doable.

The guide rail connector/ not-square issue with FESTOOL would be more of a here and now issue to address. Any thoughts on that topic would be welcome as we study the issue and collect DATA. If anyone in the Mineapolis / St Paul (Minnesota USA) area has FESTOOL track fit issues and would like to participate in a DATA collection effort with us, we'd like to hear from them.

Hans
info@tsoproducts.com

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline Holmz

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2017, 03:54 AM »
one thing MAFELL does not have: a FOG forum caliber voice on this continent.
...

Video below.



I can honestly say it was all the information found on the FOG, that guided me in my decision making.
 

Ya, well it was probably the incessant banter of @Holmz that perpetuated that Mafell sale. Personally, I think he gets a kick-back on all Mafell & Mirka and Lamello sales...

@Cheese - You forgot the Lamello, so I added it for you.  [tongue]

At some point late in life, even I started treating others as I would like to be treated.  [wink]
Then people at least know that there is an option and they can do their due diligence and decide based upon some investigation.

Maybe I need an @McNally Family kick back? Beers are cheap...  but more than my [2cents], or maybe we could do a virtual beer?  [tongue]

Maybe this is somewhat apropos with the cold front interrupting spring the US and Canada...
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 04:49 AM by Holmz »

Offline Flatsawn

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2017, 09:21 PM »
one thing MAFELL does not have: a FOG forum caliber voice on this continent.
We keep getting a steady trickle of requests for MAFELL / TSO Guide Rail Squares. The MAFELL track sample at my desk is a constant reminder. We are watching the marketing progress of MAFELL over here for the time where this development can make economic sense. It requires a substantially different mechanical approach than our FESTOOL oriented GRS-16 series but is definitely doable.

The guide rail connector/ not-square issue with FESTOOL would be more of a here and now issue to address. Any thoughts on that topic would be welcome as we study the issue and collect DATA. If anyone in the Mineapolis / St Paul (Minnesota USA) area has FESTOOL track fit issues and would like to participate in a DATA collection effort with us, we'd like to hear from them.

Hans
info@tsoproducts.com

Hans

I'm waiting for an MFT replacement guide rail mechanism that keeps the rail square after raising and lowering it a few times.

Offline jdw101

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Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2017, 10:11 PM »

I can honestly say it was all the information found on the FOG, that guided me in my decision making.
 

Ya, well it was probably the incessant banter of @Holmz that perpetuated that Mafell sale. Personally, I think he gets a kick-back on all Mafell & Mirka sales...

Cannot blame you for wanting that jigsaw, I am saving for it right now.  I hope to have it in a few months.  I've never liked any of my jigsaws, not even a little bit.  The way I see it is if I hate it too I can get what I paid for it and more :)

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3971
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2017, 05:50 AM »
Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better...

The facts (as I see them) are:

1) Once the Festool patents ran out Bosch/Mafell could release their rail.
(In a perfect world there would be a DIN standard for the rails- the world is not perfect)

2) The MT55 can run on a FT rail and is the only Mafell tool that can run on the rail, and then without any tilt as the FT rail is 6-mm and the Bosch 5-mm thick.

3) No FEstools can run on the Bosch rail.

4) Someone with more time than me could probably figure out whether they could make a TS55 base that goes into a Bosch rail...
(I cannot see how that would be bad for anyone except manufactures and sellers of FT rails... and likely an instant warranty buster)

The majority of the reason I started looking at the other saw was rail situation. But many are happy with the FT rails, so it seems more of a personal leaning than fact.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 490
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2017, 09:25 AM »
Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better...

The facts (as I see them) are:

1) Once the Festool patents ran out Bosch/Mafell could release their rail.
(In a perfect world there would be a DIN standard for the rails- the world is not perfect)

2) The MT55 can run on a FT rail and is the only Mafell tool that can run on the rail, and then without any tilt as the FT rail is 6-mm and the Bosch 5-mm thick.

3) No FEstools can run on the Bosch rail.

4) Someone with more time than me could probably figure out whether they could make a TS55 base that goes into a Bosch rail...
(I cannot see how that would be bad for anyone except manufactures and sellers of FT rails... and likely an instant warranty buster)

The majority of the reason I started looking at the other saw was rail situation. But many are happy with the FT rails, so it seems more of a personal leaning than fact.

I have both Festool and Mafell saws. The Mafell rails have a better connection system (no need for third party workaround), an easy to change splinter guard (slides in place, no sticker) and include cord deflectors for both ends. The only downside is they are not as rigid as the Festool ones and could be damaged easier if abused (like thrown around). Some other notes:

  • Rail prices are about the same as the Festool equivalents though the sizes don't match up exactly.
  • There also are availability issues in the US for the longer rails. Rails longer than the F160 (63") are not available. I had an F210 (6.9 ft) shipped from Germany because I like the convenience of one rail for most cuts, however the connector is rock sold so there are not any alignment issues when connecting two or more rails together. I do feel lucky that it made it from Germany 100% intact considering it shipped in the factory cardboard box.
  • There is no Festool equivalent to the Aerofix rail.
  • P1cc jigsaw works on the their rails.

Mafell is not trying to be a jack of all trades tool company like Festool. They make 1 or 2 models of each tool and some thoughtfully designed accessories. They also have some very unique tools that no one else offers, however their pricing higher and sometimes significantly higher than Festool.


« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 09:27 AM by JimH2 »

Offline Nat X

  • Posts: 231
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2017, 12:01 AM »
They also have the Aerofix. It's not always useful depending on what and where you're cutting, but when it is, it saves a ton of time.

I sold all my Festool saws after I started making 3" thick endgrain butcher block surfaces and needed much more than Festool was capable of delivering. I miss the cords, and the longer clamps, but not much else. The fact that I can rip 8/4 purpleheart with the little 55mm one without popping a breaker is amazing enough on its own, but being able to clamp right up against the splinterguard is probably the biggest surprise game-changer.

Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 461
  • Festool Atomic Phaser Particle Blaster (APPB Set)
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2017, 12:04 AM »
Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better...

The facts (as I see them) are:

1) Once the Festool patents ran out Bosch/Mafell could release their rail.
(In a perfect world there would be a DIN standard for the rails- the world is not perfect)

2) The MT55 can run on a FT rail and is the only Mafell tool that can run on the rail, and then without any tilt as the FT rail is 6-mm and the Bosch 5-mm thick.

3) No FEstools can run on the Bosch rail.

4) Someone with more time than me could probably figure out whether they could make a TS55 base that goes into a Bosch rail...
(I cannot see how that would be bad for anyone except manufactures and sellers of FT rails... and likely an instant warranty buster)

The majority of the reason I started looking at the other saw was rail situation. But many are happy with the FT rails, so it seems more of a personal leaning than fact.

I have both Festool and Mafell saws. The Mafell rails have a better connection system (no need for third party workaround), an easy to change splinter guard (slides in place, no sticker) and include cord deflectors for both ends. The only downside is they are not as rigid as the Festool ones and could be damaged easier if abused (like thrown around). Some other notes:

  • Rail prices are about the same as the Festool equivalents though the sizes don't match up exactly.
  • There also are availability issues in the US for the longer rails. Rails longer than the F160 (63") are not available. I had an F210 (6.9 ft) shipped from Germany because I like the convenience of one rail for most cuts, however the connector is rock sold so there are not any alignment issues when connecting two or more rails together. I do feel lucky that it made it from Germany 100% intact considering it shipped in the factory cardboard box.
  • There is no Festool equivalent to the Aerofix rail.
  • P1cc jigsaw works on the their rails.

Mafell is not trying to be a jack of all trades tool company like Festool. They make 1 or 2 models of each tool and some thoughtfully designed accessories. They also have some very unique tools that no one else offers, however their pricing higher and sometimes significantly higher than Festool.


The idea of the Aerofix system really appeals to me, and will be the next purchase after my saw (Which should be ordered next week).
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) | Next  Purchase: A new sander by Christmas |

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline jacko9

  • Posts: 2345
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2017, 04:17 PM »
I did buy the Mafell Plunge saw and track but, I would have gone the Festool route if I didn't have a full shop with Cabinet Table saw with attached sliding table.  The Festool attachments and fixtures are well worth buying a Festool Track saw solution and like I said it would have been my path if I haven't already invested in my shop machines.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2017, 06:24 AM »
Just curious if anyone has used a MT55 on a Festool rail?

If so, was it better or worse than using it on a Mafell rail?

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 240
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2017, 12:02 PM »
The biggest omission on the side of Mafell was not adding a groove into the track for parallels guides to attach to their track. Otherwise their design is the best on the market.

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 558
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2017, 05:45 PM »
Doesn’t their parallel guide system attach to the saws themselves so you don’t have to use a rail at all? Pretty sure my mt55 cordless has that. (N.B. It’s only for smaller rips parallel to the edge, not like the guides that attach to rails)

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 240
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2017, 07:09 PM »
Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better.  I am anxiously saving for the p1cc but some of the really annoying things about my rails I didn't realize Mafell has solved.  That is disturbing, I can't afford to have to save for more Mafell tools, darn they are expensive.

The Mafell made Bosch 470 and 572 Jig Saws will also work on Mafell Rails if you buy the rail Bosch adapter from Britain.  It was designed to work with the Mafell made Bosch Track Saw and it’s rails. 

The Mafell base won’t fit the Bosch Jig Saws the Bolts are in different positions for the foot.

Offline jacko9

  • Posts: 2345
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2017, 07:25 PM »
Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better.  I am anxiously saving for the p1cc but some of the really annoying things about my rails I didn't realize Mafell has solved.  That is disturbing, I can't afford to have to save for more Mafell tools, darn they are expensive.

The Mafell made Bosch 470 and 572 Jig Saws will also work on Mafell Rails if you buy the rail Bosch adapter from Britain.  It was designed to work with the Mafell made Bosch Track Saw and it’s rails. 

The Mafell base won’t fit the Bosch Jig Saws the Bolts are in different positions for the foot.

The Bosch Track Clamp is much superior to the Mafell clamp.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 240
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2017, 08:38 PM »
Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better.  I am anxiously saving for the p1cc but some of the really annoying things about my rails I didn't realize Mafell has solved.  That is disturbing, I can't afford to have to save for more Mafell tools, darn they are expensive.

The Mafell made Bosch 470 and 572 Jig Saws will also work on Mafell Rails if you buy the rail Bosch adapter from Britain.  It was designed to work with the Mafell made Bosch Track Saw and it’s rails. 

The Mafell base won’t fit the Bosch Jig Saws the Bolts are in different positions for the foot.

The Bosch Track Clamp is much superior to the Mafell clamp.

Technically the Mafell base has the best bevel function of any base for a jig saw.  I’ve always felt the bevel functions on jig saw were largely designed for people who don’t want to buy a track saw or a router.  Tools with rotating blades generally cut cleaner bevels.  Oscillating and orbiting blades do a passable job on bevel cuts.  They wouldn’t be my first choice.

The Mafell track saw has my attention.  The fully enclosed blade for better dust collection and the superior tracks are very compelling.  I’d have to do more homework to see how the TS 75 and the Mafell compare for cutting hardwood table tops.  The TS 75 has a depth advantage but how often do you actually use a track saw to cut a hardwood board thicker than 2 inches to begin with?


 

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 91
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2017, 02:33 PM »
Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better.  I am anxiously saving for the p1cc ....
Yes, well, Bosch (actually Lesto) invented the jigsaw - but you are saving for a P1cc (which, by the way, is far better than any Bosch I've ever used). Fein created the multitool, but is it still the best? I have a Fein, but at work we have Bosch multitool. I prefer the Bosch. And what about routers? The modern plunge router was effectively created in 1949 by Elu (now deWalt) with their MOF11 router - but if you use a DW625, which is a good router, as well as an OF2200e, which router is best? Progress, progress
Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
- Shaker Maxims

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 240
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2017, 03:10 PM »
Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better.  I am anxiously saving for the p1cc ....
Yes, well, Bosch (actually Lesto) invented the jigsaw - but you are saving for a P1cc (which, by the way, is far better than any Bosch I've ever used). Fein created the multitool, but is it still the best? I have a Fein, but at work we have Bosch multitool. I prefer the Bosch. And what about routers? The modern plunge router was effectively created in 1949 by Elu (now deWalt) with their MOF11 router - but if you use a DW625, which is a good router, as well as an OF2200e, which router is best? Progress, progress

It’s tough to compare the Bosch 572 to the Mafell pc11 regardless of their similarities.  Bosch buys most of their jig saw parts from Mafell; the finally package assembly is done in Hungry.  It’s  has the same motor.  The motor is really one of about hundred parts that make up a jig saw. 

The Mafell has a superior blade stabilization system that allows the same motor to cut much faster without loosing accuracy.  Whether people appreciate it or not, it’s the blade stabilization system that accounts for the price differences between many jig saws. 

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 374
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2017, 04:11 AM »
Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better.  I am anxiously saving for the p1cc but some of the really annoying things about my rails I didn't realize Mafell has solved.  That is disturbing, I can't afford to have to save for more Mafell tools, darn they are expensive.

The Mafell made Bosch 470 and 572 Jig Saws will also work on Mafell Rails if you buy the rail Bosch adapter from Britain.  It was designed to work with the Mafell made Bosch Track Saw and it’s rails. 

The Mafell base won’t fit the Bosch Jig Saws the Bolts are in different positions for the foot.

The Bosch Track Clamp is much superior to the Mafell clamp.

Technically the Mafell base has the best bevel function of any base for a jig saw.  I’ve always felt the bevel functions on jig saw were largely designed for people who don’t want to buy a track saw or a router.  Tools with rotating blades generally cut cleaner bevels.  Oscillating and orbiting blades do a passable job on bevel cuts.  They wouldn’t be my first choice.

The Mafell track saw has my attention.  The fully enclosed blade for better dust collection and the superior tracks are very compelling.  I’d have to do more homework to see how the TS 75 and the Mafell compare for cutting hardwood table tops.  The TS 75 has a depth advantage but how often do you actually use a track saw to cut a hardwood board thicker than 2 inches to begin with?


 

Whether 27mm or 36mm hose, I have not noticed any difference between the
Mafell and Festool (55) tracksaws on dust collection.    If you're swapping out different blades, like myself, that's where the MT55 won my heart. 

I can't speak on the ts75, but I can tell you that the Mafell will happily trip a 20amp
breaker if you make a stupid mistake, whereas the Festool would probably just stop itself from doing so. 






Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 240
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2017, 11:53 AM »
Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better.  I am anxiously saving for the p1cc but some of the really annoying things about my rails I didn't realize Mafell has solved.  That is disturbing, I can't afford to have to save for more Mafell tools, darn they are expensive.

The Mafell made Bosch 470 and 572 Jig Saws will also work on Mafell Rails if you buy the rail Bosch adapter from Britain.  It was designed to work with the Mafell made Bosch Track Saw and it’s rails. 

The Mafell base won’t fit the Bosch Jig Saws the Bolts are in different positions for the foot.

The Bosch Track Clamp is much superior to the Mafell clamp.

Technically the Mafell base has the best bevel function of any base for a jig saw.  I’ve always felt the bevel functions on jig saw were largely designed for people who don’t want to buy a track saw or a router.  Tools with rotating blades generally cut cleaner bevels.  Oscillating and orbiting blades do a passable job on bevel cuts.  They wouldn’t be my first choice.

The Mafell track saw has my attention.  The fully enclosed blade for better dust collection and the superior tracks are very compelling.  I’d have to do more homework to see how the TS 75 and the Mafell compare for cutting hardwood table tops.  The TS 75 has a depth advantage but how often do you actually use a track saw to cut a hardwood board thicker than 2 inches to begin with?


 

Whether 27mm or 36mm hose, I have not noticed any difference between the
Mafell and Festool (55) tracksaws on dust collection.    If you're swapping out different blades, like myself, that's where the MT55 won my heart. 

I can't speak on the ts75, but I can tell you that the Mafell will happily trip a 20amp
breaker if you make a stupid mistake, whereas the Festool would probably just stop itself from doing so.

Part of the attraction of the Mafell is being able to use the Bosch Jig Saw in their tracks using Bosch’s adaptor.  I’ll just have to keep my fingers crossed the Canadian dollar is stronger when it comes time to buy a new track saw. 

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2956
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2017, 12:13 PM »
"Part of the attraction of the Mafell is being able to use the Bosch Jig Saw in their tracks using Bosch’s adaptor."

When Bosch introduced their first jigsaw with integral dust collection back in the '80s they also offered a rail/adapter exclusively for the jigsaw. They abandoned the rail very quickly since the blade could not be fixed truly parallel to the track so the blade bent progressively as the saw traveled.

Ever notice that when following a straight line successfully with a jigsaw that the saw's base is not parallel to the line?

For a relatively weak jigsaw blade to track a straight line the kerf has to be substantially wider than the back of the blade. The Mafell double wide jigsaw blade is the only blade that can be predicted to track a straight line successfully. Other blade/saw combinations may occasionally track well but that would be a fluke IMO.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1115
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2017, 12:27 PM »
When Bosch introduced their first jigsaw with integral dust collection back in the '80s they also offered a rail/adapter exclusively for the jigsaw. They abandoned the rail very quickly since the blade could not be fixed truly parallel to the track so the blade bent progressively as the saw traveled.
Ever notice that when following a straight line successfully with a jigsaw that the saw's base is not parallel to the line?
Excellent point. Jigsaw blades usually meander and need constant correction. Mafell is the only one I've seen that can cut a long straight line in thick material by simply following a guide rail or a straight edge.
I wonder if Mafell blades fit into Bosch saw. Their shank seem to be the same thickness as standard blades.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 02:26 PM by Svar »

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 240
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2017, 12:39 PM »
"Part of the attraction of the Mafell is being able to use the Bosch Jig Saw in their tracks using Bosch’s adaptor."

When Bosch introduced their first jigsaw with integral dust collection back in the '80s they also offered a rail/adapter exclusively for the jigsaw. They abandoned the rail very quickly since the blade could not be fixed truly parallel to the track so the blade bent progressively as the saw traveled.

Ever notice that when following a straight line successfully with a jigsaw that the saw's base is not parallel to the line?

For a relatively weak jigsaw blade to track a straight line the kerf has to be substantially wider than the back of the blade. The Mafell double wide jigsaw blade is the only blade that can be predicted to track a straight line successfully. Other blade/saw combinations may occasionally track well but that would be a fluke IMO.

Freud also had a similar blade for perfect cuts on a track, I haven’t been able to find their version for a couple years.  Mafell might be the last option on the market.

The Mafell Track Saw (no track) works out to $1190 CAD with currency conversion and Forex charges.  You’re probably looking at $60 -$80 in tariffs and $60 in custom fees.

If Mafell sold products through a Canadian Dealer like Atlas, the 55 would cost about $1099.  As much I like the Mafell, it’s difficult to justify spending $500 -$600 more than a TS 75 given the odds I won’t be doing any cuts across the full 8 foot of a sheet for any projects.  It’s $600 that would buy another tool valuable to a project. 

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2017, 01:16 PM »

Ever notice that when following a straight line successfully with a jigsaw that the saw's base is not parallel to the line?

For a relatively weak jigsaw blade to track a straight line the kerf has to be substantially wider than the back of the blade. The Mafell double wide jigsaw blade is the only blade that can be predicted to track a straight line successfully.

Good observation, I've noticed that issue before but because the cut line was straight, the observation never got beyond the "well that's interesting" stage.  [smile]

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #58 on: November 16, 2017, 01:27 PM »
I wonder if Mafell blades fit into Bosch saw. Their shank seem to be the same thickness as standard blades.

The Mafell shank will fit into the saw, however it will not engage the blade locking mechanism as the opening needs to accept the extra tang on the side of the blade.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1115
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2017, 02:23 PM »
The Mafell shank will fit into the saw, however it will not engage the blade locking mechanism as the opening needs to accept the extra tang on the side of the blade.
Bummer. Even if you grind off that tang, the back of the blade is still offset relative to t-shank (will not ride against guide roller correctly). Will have to take on blacksmithing and forge my own thick blades from scratch.  [big grin]
Thanks for posting the picture.

Online ScotF

  • Posts: 2336
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2017, 11:55 PM »
Any of the Bosch branded blades ending in DP are thicker than normal blades - actually very similar to the Carvex or Trion labeled blades. These will aid in cutting square and reducing deflection. The Cunex blade is nice, but really only shines in curved cuts. Personally I prefer the thicker blades for straight cuts that need to be square. The Mafell employs more technology than just the thicker Cunex blade - the entire clamping mechanism is different and holds the blade more securely with a wedge action. There is also no deflection from any rear wheel or roller guide, which can also introduce deflection. Since there are no guides, there is less heat and blades last longer.

It is an entirely different level saw. The Bosch is nice too - BTW, mine is not sourced from Mafell parts - it is made in Switzerland. FWIW - Festool makes nice saws too - I preferred the Trion over the Carvex when I owned one of each, but I thought the Bosch and Mafell cut better and provided more value. However, I am tempted to get the cordless Carvex because of the advantages it offers over corded saws and I think it is the best 18v on the market right now. So, I might add another FT at some point and grow my jigsaw collection again. :)

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2017, 12:50 AM »
Any of the Bosch branded blades ending in DP are thicker than normal blades - actually very similar to the Carvex or Trion labeled blades. These will aid in cutting square and reducing deflection. The Cunex blade is nice, but really only shines in curved cuts. Personally I prefer the thicker blades for straight cuts that need to be square. The Mafell employs more technology than just the thicker Cunex blade - the entire clamping mechanism is different and holds the blade more securely with a wedge action. There is also no deflection from any rear wheel or roller guide, which can also introduce deflection. Since there are no guides, there is less heat and blades last longer.

I agree 100%...I only use the Cunex blade for cutting very sharp radiuses when the jigsaw is tethered to a a central pivot point. For cutting larger free form radius cuts, I’ll use Trion blades in the Mafell and they will usually yield cuts that are within 1-2 degrees of perpendicularity. The Trion blades are stiff enough to resist sideways deflection because of the guidance system used in the P1 cc.

The Cunex blade is not fun to use because it is double the thickness of a standard jig saw blade, which makes for a very slow and tedious cutting process.

However if the P1 cc jigsaw was attached to a guide rail, the Cunex would again be my blade of choice.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 240
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #62 on: November 17, 2017, 01:19 AM »
Any of the Bosch branded blades ending in DP are thicker than normal blades - actually very similar to the Carvex or Trion labeled blades. These will aid in cutting square and reducing deflection. The Cunex blade is nice, but really only shines in curved cuts. Personally I prefer the thicker blades for straight cuts that need to be square. The Mafell employs more technology than just the thicker Cunex blade - the entire clamping mechanism is different and holds the blade more securely with a wedge action. There is also no deflection from any rear wheel or roller guide, which can also introduce deflection. Since there are no guides, there is less heat and blades last longer.

I agree 100%...I only use the Cunex blade for cutting very sharp radiuses when the jigsaw is tethered to a a central pivot point. For cutting larger free form radius cuts, I’ll use Trion blades in the Mafell and they will usually yield cuts that are within 1-2 degrees of perpendicularity. The Trion blades are stiff enough to resist sideways deflection because of the guidance system used in the P1 cc.

The Cunex blade is not fun to use because it is double the thickness of a standard jig saw blade, which makes for a very slow and tedious cutting process.

However if the P1 cc jigsaw was attached to a guide rail, the Cunex would again be my blade of choice.

The Bosch 572 is usually off by about 3 to 5 degrees depending on the blade. I end-up using a rasp and an angle cube to fix perfect the edge if necessary.  It’s also why I never use jig saws for bevel cuts.  Even with a very rigid blade there’s still some deflection.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #63 on: November 17, 2017, 02:24 AM »
Perhaps I should have been more clear in my last post. When using the P1 cc, and Trion blades, the perpendicularity of the cut is absolute when sawing straight cuts and when sawing large radius free-form radius cuts. Absolute, as measured by a Starrett square and the abundance of wood fuzz that’s left from the blade of the jig saw.   

If the Trion blade is pushed hard in a tight radius cut, then the blade will bend and you’ll have a 1-2 degree deviation in perpendicularity on the P1 cc, or 3-4 times that amount when using a Trion or Carvex jig saw.

A Cunex blade will yield absolute perpendicularity whether sawing in a straight line or in a radius/circle. However it is slow going because of the size of the kerf.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3971
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #64 on: November 17, 2017, 04:07 AM »
While you have accused me of being a red fan-boi , it really depends.
The main thing that excite me here are build threads, and it could be anything...
The things that get me wound-up are anything factually in error.

We have some mongrel woods...

I cut a few things with even the pixie dust encrusted p1cc, which this week is also rainbow emblazoned in support of our same sex marriage vote in Australia...

And an old aboriginal elder sold me a some unicorn horn dust which looked somewhat like the pedicure sander dust without the CT26 attached...

Even with all those 3 magics of pixie dust, rainbows and unicorns... on a mongrel wood can produce a wonky cut.
The power of the force is only so strong.

The only truthful thing we can say is that the blades are the stiffest, the guide mechanism idiot proof, and the power pretty high.
And that on <your> standard pine it cuts like a champ.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 374
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #65 on: November 17, 2017, 07:33 AM »
While you have accused me of being a red fan-boi , it really depends.
The main thing that excite me here are build threads, and it could be anything...
The things that get me wound-up are anything factually in error.

We have some mongrel woods...

I cut a few things with even the pixie dust encrusted p1cc, which this week is also rainbow emblazoned in support of our same sex marriage vote in Australia...

And an old aboriginal elder sold me a some unicorn horn dust which looked somewhat like the pedicure sander dust without the CT26 attached...

Even with all those 3 magics of pixie dust, rainbows and unicorns... on a mongrel wood can produce a wonky cut.
The power of the force is only so strong.

The only truthful thing we can say is that the blades are the stiffest, the guide mechanism idiot proof, and the power pretty high.
And that on <your> standard pine it cuts like a champ.

This reminds me of the time that I used a die grinder to remove the old man ridges from my toenails.

Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 461
  • Festool Atomic Phaser Particle Blaster (APPB Set)
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #66 on: November 17, 2017, 02:51 PM »
While you have accused me of being a red fan-boi , it really depends.
The main thing that excite me here are build threads, and it could be anything...
The things that get me wound-up are anything factually in error.

We have some mongrel woods...

I cut a few things with even the pixie dust encrusted p1cc, which this week is also rainbow emblazoned in support of our same sex marriage vote in Australia...

And an old aboriginal elder sold me a some unicorn horn dust which looked somewhat like the pedicure sander dust without the CT26 attached...

Even with all those 3 magics of pixie dust, rainbows and unicorns... on a mongrel wood can produce a wonky cut.
The power of the force is only so strong.

The only truthful thing we can say is that the blades are the stiffest, the guide mechanism idiot proof, and the power pretty high.
And that on <your> standard pine it cuts like a champ.

This reminds me of the time that I used a die grinder to remove the old man ridges from my toenails.



Just curious, were they vertical or horizontal ridges?  One represents old age and the other is a symptom of a more serious illness.
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) | Next  Purchase: A new sander by Christmas |

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3971
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #67 on: November 17, 2017, 02:56 PM »
While you have accused me of being a red fan-boi , it really depends.
The main thing that excite me here are build threads, and it could be anything...
The things that get me wound-up are anything factually in error.

We have some mongrel woods...

I cut a few things with even the pixie dust encrusted p1cc, which this week is also rainbow emblazoned in support of our same sex marriage vote in Australia...

And an old aboriginal elder sold me a some unicorn horn dust which looked somewhat like the pedicure sander dust without the CT26 attached...

Even with all those 3 magics of pixie dust, rainbows and unicorns... on a mongrel wood can produce a wonky cut.
The power of the force is only so strong.

The only truthful thing we can say is that the blades are the stiffest, the guide mechanism idiot proof, and the power pretty high.
And that on <your> standard pine it cuts like a champ.

This reminds me of the time that I used a die grinder to remove the old man ridges from my toenails.



Just curious, were they vertical or horizontal ridges?  One represents old age and the other is a symptom of a more serious illness.

The the thread has literally "gone off the rails".

But please tell... which ridge orientation represents which conditions, and which illnesses are represented?

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 240
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2017, 05:24 PM »
I would think the the way the strip interfaces to the rail itself would have been easy enough to address in the original design. Its an extrusion right. So you just design the extrusion with a slot for the strip and BANG.....no more adhesive for strip to rail interface. Sliding a composite or rubber into a the slot of an aluminum extrusion has been around for a pretty long time now. So unless Mafill has some sort of use patent floating around, that one would seem to have been a matter of just thinking about it long enough to come to that conclusion.

Think floor sweeps/weather strips on the bottom of storm doors. They all slide into an extruded slot. However, if Mafell has a patent on the rail, maybe they've included the slot as one of the claims on the patent.

I wish Bosch would sell it’s version of the Mafell Track Saw in Canada/US.  I’m guess there’s some kind of licensing issue preventing Bosch from releasing their track saw in North America.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3971
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #69 on: November 17, 2017, 05:32 PM »
I would think the the way the strip interfaces to the rail itself would have been easy enough to address in the original design. Its an extrusion right. So you just design the extrusion with a slot for the strip and BANG.....no more adhesive for strip to rail interface. Sliding a composite or rubber into a the slot of an aluminum extrusion has been around for a pretty long time now. So unless Mafill has some sort of use patent floating around, that one would seem to have been a matter of just thinking about it long enough to come to that conclusion.

Think floor sweeps/weather strips on the bottom of storm doors. They all slide into an extruded slot. However, if Mafell has a patent on the rail, maybe they've included the slot as one of the claims on the patent.

I wish Bosch would sell it’s version of the Mafell Track Saw in Canada/US.  I’m guess there’s some kind of licensing issue preventing Bosch from releasing their track saw in North America.

Well buddy up to someone in the UK or Germany or buy it off of eBay?
Your main question should be 110v or 230v.

Then you either need a step up transformer, or get a 220 plug if you have 220 in the shop.

That also opens up the 230v Mirka... which the model with the 5" and 6" pad is (I think) the 5650. I got mine straight from 'Hel'sinki, which all known for their good Finnish sanders.

Offline amt

  • Posts: 362
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2017, 06:19 PM »
You can probably buy from axminster and ship to USA for very good price.  Just order the 110v and change the plug yourself.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 374
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2017, 06:27 PM »
Bosch rails are plentiful and cheap on the UK amazon website.

I never asked for a shipping quote, but Axminster does have the 2 1600 rails + connector + bag package for
a couple of hundos.   

http://www.axminster.co.uk/bosch-fsn-guide-rail-accessory-kit-503645

As for the Herculean pedi party: said incident only occurred in my imagination.   


Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 374
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2017, 06:33 PM »
I would think the the way the strip interfaces to the rail itself would have been easy enough to address in the original design. Its an extrusion right. So you just design the extrusion with a slot for the strip and BANG.....no more adhesive for strip to rail interface. Sliding a composite or rubber into a the slot of an aluminum extrusion has been around for a pretty long time now. So unless Mafill has some sort of use patent floating around, that one would seem to have been a matter of just thinking about it long enough to come to that conclusion.



Think floor sweeps/weather strips on the bottom of storm doors. They all slide into an extruded slot. However, if Mafell has a patent on the rail, maybe they've included the slot as one of the claims on the patent.

I wish Bosch would sell it’s version of the Mafell Track Saw in Canada/US.  I’m guess there’s some kind of licensing issue preventing Bosch from releasing their track saw in North America.

There's a lot of things Bosch's power tool division isn't selling in North America.   
As in, either just about everything innovative or everything we'd consider buying from them.   

Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 461
  • Festool Atomic Phaser Particle Blaster (APPB Set)
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2017, 11:14 PM »
While you have accused me of being a red fan-boi , it really depends.
The main thing that excite me here are build threads, and it could be anything...
The things that get me wound-up are anything factually in error.

We have some mongrel woods...

I cut a few things with even the pixie dust encrusted p1cc, which this week is also rainbow emblazoned in support of our same sex marriage vote in Australia...

And an old aboriginal elder sold me a some unicorn horn dust which looked somewhat like the pedicure sander dust without the CT26 attached...

Even with all those 3 magics of pixie dust, rainbows and unicorns... on a mongrel wood can produce a wonky cut.
The power of the force is only so strong.

The only truthful thing we can say is that the blades are the stiffest, the guide mechanism idiot proof, and the power pretty high.
And that on <your> standard pine it cuts like a champ.

This reminds me of the time that I used a die grinder to remove the old man ridges from my toenails.



Just curious, were they vertical or horizontal ridges?  One represents old age and the other is a symptom of a more serious illness.

The the thread has literally "gone off the rails".

But please tell... which ridge orientation represents which conditions, and which illnesses are represented?

Link to the Mayo Clinic:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/expert-answers/nails/faq-20058541

Horizontal ridges
Deep horizontal ridges, called Beau’s lines, are often symptoms of a serious condition. They may actually stop nail growth until the underlying condition is treated. Acute kidney disease may also be present if Beau’s lines appear. In addition, when Beau’s lines develop on all 20 nails, it could be a symptom of:

mumps
thyroid disease
diabetes
syphilis
Chemotherapy may also cause Beau’s lines.


GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) | Next  Purchase: A new sander by Christmas |

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 179
Re: Festool/ Mafell Rails
« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2017, 11:26 PM »
Thought there'd be an STI in there somewhere.  Not that I'm speaking from experience or anything....
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...