Author Topic: Festool or Bosch hand planer  (Read 8191 times)

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Offline Loren Woirhaye

  • Posts: 124
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Re: Festool or Bosch hand planer
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2014, 08:40 PM »
The 850 is a fine planer and it's a little longer than some so it may help make slightly straighter cuts.

Other than that, unless you want the whiz-bang features it offers, I don't see it as all that special.   The texture cutters are the reason I have one.  It's a decent door planer, sure, but you can buy a decent door planer for under $100.  I've cambered blades in a Makita planer for texturing too.

I have a big 20" long Ryobi 155mm planer (nearly identical to a Makita 1805).  It's quite heavy. Inverted as a jointer it would outperform the Festool planer due to a longer sole and of course it's 6" wide.   I've used it for working slabs but the big sole means there's a lot of pushing and not much cutting until the slab gets quite flat.  It's tiring.  The Festool works well for slabs with the cambered or straight cutterheads, but so does a little old 4" Makita, which can even be maneuvered one handed.  The 850 is a bit big for that.

For  a jobsite jointer (which is admittedly something that lacking will drive some of us nuts, hence the elaborate jig to use the Festool 850 as one) I use a KITY 6" jointer/planer on a folding miter saw cart. It's kind of heavy but it works well and thickness planes too.  Quite hard to find of course.  It was pulled off a Kity K5 combo machine setup.  The Kity combos can occasionally be found second hand.


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Offline LDBecker

  • Posts: 67
Re: Festool or Bosch hand planer
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2017, 01:55 PM »
Hi, Scott  -  I was thinking about the 850 planer but was stopped in my tracks because the bench unit is no longer available... I still may go ahead on it because of the spiral design of the cutterhead. I have an old Makita planer, and a cheap Bosch planer I actually won in a drawing - and they both seem to beat the crap out of wood- lots of tearout and poor cutting for the kind of work I want to do. I am currently redoing some cabinets with hard maple that has some funky grain that is prone to tearout. I even upgraded my Dewalt 735 to a spiral head to help with that (works great). I have some cabinet work that the spiral head on this would be great for that my stationary joiner doesn't really do a good job with.
I know you posted this a few years ago - any further thoughts on the 850? Did you ever get the rustic head? Anybody out there have a used one with the bench it, or just the bench unit for sale? And why was the bench unit discontinued. No one seems to have an answer... hmmm...

Thanks!
Larry

The 850 is one of my favorite tools. I bought it to level a bunch of studs in a remodel and it worked really well. Very, very smooth. But this tool is amazing in the bench unit. I set it up and use it all the time -- perfect for lots of quick smoothing and leveling tasks on smaller pieces. I am going to be using it with the angle fence to put bevels on several pieces for a coopered seat. I think 24 - 30 inch lengths is about its limit, but it works so well for these smaller pieces and I do not need to fire up the large jointer for quick passes. I did a couple of video reviews of this tool a year or so ago that shows the bench unit and some of the cuts it can make.

I have not tried the other heads yet, but will like buy the rustic head for an upcoming project where I want to add a little texture.





Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3287
Re: Festool or Bosch hand planer
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2017, 04:38 PM »
According to Festool HQ it was discontinued due to insufficient interest, similar to what was done with the MFS.  I have the bench unit, but rarely use it now that I work more with hand planes.  I'm going to keep it though for a rainy day.  I remember having trouble getting a truly flat jointed face, though I'm unsure whether this was simply because I was trying to feed stock that was too long.

I have the rustic undulating head.  It works ok, but you have to follow it up with a lot of interface pad sanding to truly get the desired effect.

But the HL850 in general is a dream to use.  The ability to adjust the depth on the fly makes jointing work a lot easier.  Dust collection is amazing, of course.  It is, however, among the Festools with the largest cost multiplier relative to other brands for that tool, so depending on what you need a planer for, not sure if it is worth the cost.  I'm glad I have mine, though.

Hi, Scott  -  I was thinking about the 850 planer but was stopped in my tracks because the bench unit is no longer available... I still may go ahead on it because of the spiral design of the cutterhead. I have an old Makita planer, and a cheap Bosch planer I actually won in a drawing - and they both seem to beat the crap out of wood- lots of tearout and poor cutting for the kind of work I want to do. I am currently redoing some cabinets with hard maple that has some funky grain that is prone to tearout. I even upgraded my Dewalt 735 to a spiral head to help with that (works great). I have some cabinet work that the spiral head on this would be great for that my stationary joiner doesn't really do a good job with.
I know you posted this a few years ago - any further thoughts on the 850? Did you ever get the rustic head? Anybody out there have a used one with the bench it, or just the bench unit for sale? And why was the bench unit discontinued. No one seems to have an answer... hmmm...

Thanks!
Larry

The 850 is one of my favorite tools. I bought it to level a bunch of studs in a remodel and it worked really well. Very, very smooth. But this tool is amazing in the bench unit. I set it up and use it all the time -- perfect for lots of quick smoothing and leveling tasks on smaller pieces. I am going to be using it with the angle fence to put bevels on several pieces for a coopered seat. I think 24 - 30 inch lengths is about its limit, but it works so well for these smaller pieces and I do not need to fire up the large jointer for quick passes. I did a couple of video reviews of this tool a year or so ago that shows the bench unit and some of the cuts it can make.

I have not tried the other heads yet, but will like buy the rustic head for an upcoming project where I want to add a little texture.




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Online antss

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Re: Festool or Bosch hand planer
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2017, 05:18 PM »
I've found that all of the planers with disposable blades are very dependent on sharp blades.  Because of the size and thickness of them , they don't stay sharp long. You should be able to get those thick makita blades razor sharp though. 

You can skew the cut of those other planers by holding them at an angle as you guide them along the workpiece.

I've used the 850 on ocassion, but don't own one. It's too big and heavy for handheld work ,and I don't need a jobsite jointer. Which is kinda moot now anyway - since Festool has decided to not offer the stand anymore.  It is a powerful beast, but makita offers something similar too.

Maple can just be tough sometime, even with surgical sharp hand tools.

Offline LDBecker

  • Posts: 67
Re: Festool or Bosch hand planer
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2017, 05:58 PM »
Maple can just be tough sometime, even with surgical sharp hand tools.
With my Dewalt 735 - even with new blades, the cut left too much tearout to sand away easily. Changing out the head on it to the carbide tipped cutters in a spiral pattern solved it. I was hoping that the spiral design of the 850 would help in a similar way. I would need to use the fence to make a flat surface referenced off of the side, so skewing the 850 would be problematic.

Larry

Offline LDBecker

  • Posts: 67
Re: Festool or Bosch hand planer
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2017, 06:05 PM »
According to Festool HQ it was discontinued due to insufficient interest, similar to what was done with the MFS.  I have the bench unit, but rarely use it now that I work more with hand planes.  I'm going to keep it though for a rainy day.  I remember having trouble getting a truly flat jointed face, though I'm unsure whether this was simply because I was trying to feed stock that was too long.

I have the rustic undulating head.  It works ok, but you have to follow it up with a lot of interface pad sanding to truly get the desired effect.

But the HL850 in general is a dream to use.  The ability to adjust the depth on the fly makes jointing work a lot easier.  Dust collection is amazing, of course.  It is, however, among the Festools with the largest cost multiplier relative to other brands for that tool, so depending on what you need a planer for, not sure if it is worth the cost.  I'm glad I have mine, though.

Thanks for the input - I don't know if I'd ever have a need for the rustic head but it's interesting.
The cost is an issue, but it generally is in some way for Festool products - kind of goes with the territory.
I think getting much of a long edge flat would be difficult for that little table - for longer boards I have a 12" jointer/planer. I was interested in it for smaller, more precise cuts in box making and so on.

Larry

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 165
Re: Festool or Bosch hand planer
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2017, 03:16 AM »
I know this forum is the best place for objective advice.

Kidding aside, in the not too far future I may purchase a hand planer. I will use it for small things, like fitting the back into a cabinet, planing flat Miller (through) dowels, flattening edge trip around plywood panels, installing doors in my house. Eventually I will make a plywood table, made my gluing a bazillion pieces of plywood on face so that the edges form the top of the table. I will definitely have to plane this flat.

Normally I do not mind paying extra for a Festool, but the Festool 850 planer is literally 4 times as much as the non Festool top of the line planer, a Bosch. $600 is so much for a tool I will use only occasionally. The Bosch gets mostly 5 star reviews on Amazon, except for the 1 star reviews, which all have the same complaint: the sole plates of the Bosh do not sit flat and produce an uneven cut.

If the price between the two tools were even close (say that the Festool were only twice the price of the Bosch), I would certainly pick the Festool.

Anyone have experience using one or both of these tools?

Hand-held planers are in general a pretty rough & crude tool.  They're more the province of carpenters (first & second fix, kitchen fitters etc.) than cabinet makers, which is what you (as per above) appear to wish to do.  For accurately gauged rebates, you'll be much more successful with a guided router, for planing end-grain composite blocks a belt sander is the obvious tool.  Just as with any type of planer (manual or electric), the blade will rip the living daylights out of any end grain.

I've had a few planers over the years.  The HL 850 E is good, but is really big for the size of cut, and the ergonomic layout of the tool demands a two-handed grip, which is often inconvenient.  Better in my opinion are smaller alternatives, such as the baby Makitas or (my personal favourite) Metabo's HoE 0983, which is an electronically controlled one-handed compact & lightweight tool which when coupled with a more powerful motor can accomplish much more, more conveniently & safely.

My best planers of all are the AEG/Atlas Copco family, now unfortunately long discontinued.  Whilst bigger than the Metabo they're still smaller & lighter than the big Festo/ol.  The killer features of these tools are twofold:  firstly, an all-encompassing retractable cutterhead guard makes them the safest planer I've ever used, and the cut width of a full 4" with disposable TCT blades makes for unprecedented safety & usefulness.  As good as the Festo/ols may be, with their much more "gentle" slicing cuts, they don't even approach the AEG's levels of safety & convenience.  That TCT 4" cut in particular makes a world of difference in dressing the faces of framing hardwoods.

Nevertheless, a good 1/2" router and a Bosch/Holz Her/Milwaukee/AEG/Atlas Copco/Festo Belt sander (especially when fitted with a sanding frame) will be much more useful & accurate cabinetmaking tools than any planer ever could.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2318
Re: Festool or Bosch hand planer
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2017, 06:03 AM »
Hi, Scott  -  I was thinking about the 850 planer but was stopped in my tracks because the bench unit is no longer available... I still may go ahead on it because of the spiral design of the cutterhead. I have an old Makita planer, and a cheap Bosch planer I actually won in a drawing - and they both seem to beat the crap out of wood- lots of tearout and poor cutting for the kind of work I want to do. I am currently redoing some cabinets with hard maple that has some funky grain that is prone to tearout. I even upgraded my Dewalt 735 to a spiral head to help with that (works great). I have some cabinet work that the spiral head on this would be great for that my stationary joiner doesn't really do a good job with.
I know you posted this a few years ago - any further thoughts on the 850? Did you ever get the rustic head? Anybody out there have a used one with the bench it, or just the bench unit for sale? And why was the bench unit discontinued. No one seems to have an answer... hmmm...

Thanks!
Larry

The 850 is one of my favorite tools. I bought it to level a bunch of studs in a remodel and it worked really well. Very, very smooth. But this tool is amazing in the bench unit. I set it up and use it all the time -- perfect for lots of quick smoothing and leveling tasks on smaller pieces. I am going to be using it with the angle fence to put bevels on several pieces for a coopered seat. I think 24 - 30 inch lengths is about its limit, but it works so well for these smaller pieces and I do not need to fire up the large jointer for quick passes. I did a couple of video reviews of this tool a year or so ago that shows the bench unit and some of the cuts it can make.

I have not tried the other heads yet, but will like buy the rustic head for an upcoming project where I want to add a little texture.






I still really like the planer and think the tables are useful. It is a shame they discontinued them. You can still find some at dealers, but it is not a guarantee. I did buy one of the rustic heads as I want to explore adding more texture to some of my pieces. I think it is a nice option to have. I got the fine undulating head to start, but will likely add the others in time.

Offline LDBecker

  • Posts: 67
Re: Festool or Bosch hand planer
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2017, 05:38 PM »
I know this forum is the best place for objective advice.

Kidding aside, in the not too far future I may purchase a hand planer. I will use it for small things, like fitting the back into a cabinet, planing flat Miller (through) dowels, flattening edge trip around plywood panels, installing doors in my house. Eventually I will make a plywood table, made my gluing a bazillion pieces of plywood on face so that the edges form the top of the table. I will definitely have to plane this flat.

Normally I do not mind paying extra for a Festool, but the Festool 850 planer is literally 4 times as much as the non Festool top of the line planer, a Bosch. $600 is so much for a tool I will use only occasionally. The Bosch gets mostly 5 star reviews on Amazon, except for the 1 star reviews, which all have the same complaint: the sole plates of the Bosh do not sit flat and produce an uneven cut.

If the price between the two tools were even close (say that the Festool were only twice the price of the Bosch), I would certainly pick the Festool.

Anyone have experience using one or both of these tools?

Hand-held planers are in general a pretty rough & crude tool.  They're more the province of carpenters (first & second fix, kitchen fitters etc.) than cabinet makers, which is what you (as per above) appear to wish to do.  For accurately gauged rebates, you'll be much more successful with a guided router, for planing end-grain composite blocks a belt sander is the obvious tool.  Just as with any type of planer (manual or electric), the blade will rip the living daylights out of any end grain.

I've had a few planers over the years.  The HL 850 E is good, but is really big for the size of cut, and the ergonomic layout of the tool demands a two-handed grip, which is often inconvenient.  Better in my opinion are smaller alternatives, such as the baby Makitas or (my personal favourite) Metabo's HoE 0983, which is an electronically controlled one-handed compact & lightweight tool which when coupled with a more powerful motor can accomplish much more, more conveniently & safely.

My best planers of all are the AEG/Atlas Copco family, now unfortunately long discontinued.  Whilst bigger than the Metabo they're still smaller & lighter than the big Festo/ol.  The killer features of these tools are twofold:  firstly, an all-encompassing retractable cutterhead guard makes them the safest planer I've ever used, and the cut width of a full 4" with disposable TCT blades makes for unprecedented safety & usefulness.  As good as the Festo/ols may be, with their much more "gentle" slicing cuts, they don't even approach the AEG's levels of safety & convenience.  That TCT 4" cut in particular makes a world of difference in dressing the faces of framing hardwoods.

Nevertheless, a good 1/2" router and a Bosch/Holz Her/Milwaukee/AEG/Atlas Copco/Festo Belt sander (especially when fitted with a sanding frame) will be much more useful & accurate cabinetmaking tools than any planer ever could.

Hi from Los Angeles. Thanks for the reply- as I mentioned, I have the old Makita and a small Bosch electric planer, and they do indeed rip things up a bit. Definitely for rough work. I was looking to the Festool 850 to be able to be used more delicately - and there the size of the thing might add some stability. My current jointer/planer is a 750 lb 12" Robland (imported by Laguna) with a 6' or so bed that I got 15 years ago or so. I've added better Teresa-type removable knives to it, and use it for big stock, but anything with figure in the grain gets a bad case of tearout. It has one speed- fast! I've given up on it as a planer at all, and went with a DeWalt 735 with a Helix head and carbide cutters. It has two speeds, and I use it on slow. The finish is ok, and certainly with a light sanding, very good. When I build boxes or other things I LIKE the figure and funky grain, and don't like having to avoid it because of tearout that is so bad it can't be sanded out.

I use the Robland just as a jointer now, and even though you can vary the speed that you move the stock through, I still get tearout. So... that's why I think I might try the Festool 850- spiral head, more shearing a action than direct cutting. I don's see any other hand-held planer that has that.

Larry

Offline LDBecker

  • Posts: 67
Re: Festool or Bosch hand planer
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2017, 05:39 PM »
Hi, Scott  -  I was thinking about the 850 planer but was stopped in my tracks because the bench unit is no longer available... I still may go ahead on it because of the spiral design of the cutterhead. I have an old Makita planer, and a cheap Bosch planer I actually won in a drawing - and they both seem to beat the crap out of wood- lots of tearout and poor cutting for the kind of work I want to do. I am currently redoing some cabinets with hard maple that has some funky grain that is prone to tearout. I even upgraded my Dewalt 735 to a spiral head to help with that (works great). I have some cabinet work that the spiral head on this would be great for that my stationary joiner doesn't really do a good job with.
I know you posted this a few years ago - any further thoughts on the 850? Did you ever get the rustic head? Anybody out there have a used one with the bench it, or just the bench unit for sale? And why was the bench unit discontinued. No one seems to have an answer... hmmm...

Thanks!
Larry

The 850 is one of my favorite tools. I bought it to level a bunch of studs in a remodel and it worked really well. Very, very smooth. But this tool is amazing in the bench unit. I set it up and use it all the time -- perfect for lots of quick smoothing and leveling tasks on smaller pieces. I am going to be using it with the angle fence to put bevels on several pieces for a coopered seat. I think 24 - 30 inch lengths is about its limit, but it works so well for these smaller pieces and I do not need to fire up the large jointer for quick passes. I did a couple of video reviews of this tool a year or so ago that shows the bench unit and some of the cuts it can make.

I have not tried the other heads yet, but will like buy the rustic head for an upcoming project where I want to add a little texture.






I still really like the planer and think the tables are useful. It is a shame they discontinued them. You can still find some at dealers, but it is not a guarantee. I did buy one of the rustic heads as I want to explore adding more texture to some of my pieces. I think it is a nice option to have. I got the fine undulating head to start, but will likely add the others in time.

Offline LDBecker

  • Posts: 67
Re: Festool or Bosch hand planer
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2017, 05:42 PM »
Hi, Scott  -  I was thinking about the 850 planer but was stopped in my tracks because the bench unit is no longer available... I still may go ahead on it because of the spiral design of the cutterhead. I have an old Makita planer, and a cheap Bosch planer I actually won in a drawing - and they both seem to beat the crap out of wood- lots of tearout and poor cutting for the kind of work I want to do. I am currently redoing some cabinets with hard maple that has some funky grain that is prone to tearout. I even upgraded my Dewalt 735 to a spiral head to help with that (works great). I have some cabinet work that the spiral head on this would be great for that my stationary joiner doesn't really do a good job with.
I know you posted this a few years ago - any further thoughts on the 850? Did you ever get the rustic head? Anybody out there have a used one with the bench it, or just the bench unit for sale? And why was the bench unit discontinued. No one seems to have an answer... hmmm...

Thanks!
Larry

The 850 is one of my favorite tools. I bought it to level a bunch of studs in a remodel and it worked really well. Very, very smooth. But this tool is amazing in the bench unit. I set it up and use it all the time -- perfect for lots of quick smoothing and leveling tasks on smaller pieces. I am going to be using it with the angle fence to put bevels on several pieces for a coopered seat. I think 24 - 30 inch lengths is about its limit, but it works so well for these smaller pieces and I do not need to fire up the large jointer for quick passes. I did a couple of video reviews of this tool a year or so ago that shows the bench unit and some of the cuts it can make.

I have not tried the other heads yet, but will like buy the rustic head for an upcoming project where I want to add a little texture.






I still really like the planer and think the tables are useful. It is a shame they discontinued them. You can still find some at dealers, but it is not a guarantee. I did buy one of the rustic heads as I want to explore adding more texture to some of my pieces. I think it is a nice option to have. I got the fine undulating head to start, but will likely add the others in time.

I have my dealer looking for a table, but his normal contacts don't have any. Do you (or anyone else!) know of a dealer I can point him to for ordering one?  I will likely move on the planer in the next week or so. I won't need it on my current project for about two weeks.

Thanks!

Larry

Offline LDBecker

  • Posts: 67
Re: Festool or Bosch hand planer
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2017, 02:05 AM »
So, I picked up the HL 850 E planer and the WA-HL angle stop today. I am very pleased with the surface that the planer gives. You can just take off a HAIR to clean up the saw marks or whatever, or straighten out a board so easily. The surface reminds me of what I'd get using an old school hand jointer plane (though I know the sole of the 850 at only 13.5" isn't long enough to be truly good at jointing a long edge). Funky grain patterns are cleanly cut and, though it might not be as good as a true smoothing plane, it's pretty good. Trying this wit other planers, i got chatter, funky grain tearout, and was not happy at all. This is a completely different animal. The dust collection is phenomenal. Using it with both heads of my Vac Sys, i have a quite stable platform for working the wood. The angle stop gives enough beef to adequately hold the planer to the wood, and as it's movable, you can cover the unused portion of the blade. 

Thanks all for the advice... still looking to give an unwanted bench unit a good home (hint, hint!).

Larry