Author Topic: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop  (Read 11209 times)

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Offline Jim Metzger

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Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« on: June 26, 2017, 06:02 PM »
From ToolGuyd website "SawStop announced that they’re being acquired by Festool’s parent company, TTS Tooltechnic Systems!"
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[/size]Let the commenting begin[/color]
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[/size]Jim[/color]

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Online leakyroof

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2017, 07:39 PM »
My dealer sent me this info......Wonder where this might take the Track Saws and their other saws in the future.... [scratch chin] [scratch chin] [scratch chin] [popcorn]
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 01:47 PM by leakyroof »
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Offline antss

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2017, 09:59 PM »
I doubt anywhere.  The brake mech. are just too big for handheld tools.  [sad]

Online leakyroof

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2017, 10:15 PM »
I doubt anywhere.  The brake mech. are just too big for handheld tools.  [sad]
picture a much smaller one.... [cool]
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Offline antss

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2017, 11:33 PM »
And where is that mini brake going to mount, and how heavy is it going to be ?

And how much torque do you think it's gonna generate when it fires, and are you going to be able to hold on when it does ?

Possible , sure.  Practical ?  Me thinks not.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2017, 01:18 AM »
And where is that mini brake going to mount, and how heavy is it going to be ?

    On the bottom rear corner of the motor housing.



And how much torque do you think it's gonna generate when it fires, and are you going to be able to hold on when it does ?



I don't know how much torque but people will be much stronger by then so holding it down won't be an issue. Or TTS /SS will invent a torque countering limiter.




Possible , sure.  Practical ?  Me thinks not.


In the current form it might not be pratical, but who knows what may develop in the future from the basic concept. Every idea started somewhere.

Seth


Offline Tinker

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2017, 04:32 AM »
TTS will redesign the MFT's to support the extra weight of the SS.
The giude rails will be built stronger for added support as well.
New earmuffs will be designed to lessen noise impact when the SS explodes.
Rick Cristopherson will be busy writing up a new instruction manual.
Uncle Bob will have to design new packaging.

Oh, there are all sorts of possibilities 8)
Tinker
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Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2017, 05:37 AM »
I own a SawStop Industrial saw and greatly admire its design and execution. I've never had a problem, but called the company with questions early on. I got superior support.

I hope the acquisition doesn't affect product or support quality.

Once the safety technology is incorporated into a product and is proven to work, schools and other teaching organizations almost have to adopt it. Companies wishing to avoid injuries and injury claims will follow.

I would see bandsaws, miter saws, planets, jointers, drill presses, and shapers as being candidates. I think hand held power tools would be problematic.
Birdhunter

Offline Scorpion

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2017, 07:24 AM »
I like my SS.  Fantastic tool.  I'd buy another without hesitation.  If the next one is green when it arrives, so be it. 

From another angle - getting acquired means changes.  It's unavoidable.  Without understanding the intended strategy, none will be able to guess if the changes will impact the product line or not.  Some acquiring entities allow the acquired to continue to operate with autonomy and others fully integrate moving all aspects in to leverage supply chain, mfg relationships, leadership, and so on.  Some changes will benefit the consumer and others may not.  Kinda gotta wait and see.

Regarding a previous comment - if they paint it green and jack up the price, it would likely hurt their market.  After using one for years now (I was an early adopter), I can honestly say I wouldn't have bought one for 2x the price.  I'd instead take up finger painting.


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Offline antss

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2017, 08:20 AM »
Isn't the track saw concept safer than a table saw to begin with , hence one of its appeals ?

How much xtra would guys be willing to pay for this mini brake ?  The pricing is likely to put off even the FT faithful.

Can't see TTS leveraging supply chain economies with SS.  They aren't even a manufacture , and FT doesn't have that capability in house.

Offline JimH2

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2017, 08:55 AM »
Isn't the track saw concept safer than a table saw to begin with , hence one of its appeals ?

How much xtra would guys be willing to pay for this mini brake ?  The pricing is likely to put off even the FT faithful.

Can't see TTS leveraging supply chain economies with SS.  They aren't even a manufacture , and FT doesn't have that capability in house.

The combination of the track, riving knife and spring loaded blade make it tremendously safer than the alternatives. I don't see any reason to add SawStop technology to the track saws.

People complain about SawStop prices now, just wait until the Festool pricing comes in. Mafell offers the Erika tablesaw and fully tricked out it is north of $3000 and that is for a portable tablesaw. It would have been much better for everyone if DeWalt or Bosch had bought SawStop and licensed the technology at a reasonable price. This transaction is not good for anyone expect TTS.

I guess SawStop's owner knew the end was near when Bosch introduced their alternative. I am sure the lawsuit was expensive and anymore of them could put them in a bind financially. I would think the owner/inventor would have negotiated $x/device royalty fee to keep the cash coming in and walk away with a victory.

Online HowardH

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2017, 11:15 AM »
Obviously there are synergies for both companies or this deal wouldn't have happened.  Both are privately owned so no possibility of a hostile takeover.  It could be, and I think most likely, that SS will operate as a wholly owned subsidiary of Tooltechnic and it will be business as usual.  Maybe Dr. Gass decided it was time to hang it up and Mother Festool thought it would be a good idea to acquire their customer base and intellectual property.  It will be closing pretty fast, I would imagine it's a cash deal, but it could be quite some time before any changed filter down to our level. 
Howard H
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Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2017, 12:26 PM »
Isn't the track saw concept safer than a table saw to begin with , hence one of its appeals ?

How much xtra would guys be willing to pay for this mini brake ?  The pricing is likely to put off even the FT faithful.




Yes.

And at least $5,000 .   ::)

Point was ...................  not every idea needs to be bashed,  just because.

Seth

Online HowardH

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2017, 12:31 PM »
mini brake would be totally unnecessary.  I have been using my TS55 for coming up on ten years without even a sniff of a chance to get hurt.  If someone did, they were doing something outside of it's operational intent and it would be Darwinism at work.   :o
Howard H
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Online Cheese

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2017, 12:45 PM »
I guess SawStop's owner knew the end was near when Bosch introduced their alternative. I am sure the lawsuit was expensive and anymore of them could put them in a bind financially.

Exactly...with Bosch challenging SawStop, Gass knew that they wouldn't be the last manufacturer and that others would follow, all of which meant that time was running out on patents and buckets of money were being spent on patent infringement litigation.

How many SawStops do you think needed to be sold just to pay for the last law suit?

So, Gass correctly surmised that now was the time that his IP had the highest $$$ value and so he decided to strike while the iron was hot. Meanwhile, Gass works out a deal for X number of years of royalty for each saw sold while TTS expands the market penetration and life becomes good again... [2cents] [2cents]

Online leakyroof

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2017, 02:00 PM »
And where is that mini brake going to mount, and how heavy is it going to be ?

And how much torque do you think it's gonna generate when it fires, and are you going to be able to hold on when it does ?

Possible , sure.  Practical ?  Me thinks not.
With that mindset you would have fit right in with the Automotive World as I knew it in the late 80's when I started. Esp. with Air Bags and SRS.  Not a dig, just an observation... [wink]
 We started with a Drivers Side Air Bag years ago, now they're all over the vehicle, and we have travel sensors in the seat tracks of front seats to show the position of the occupant so an SRS Module can decide which portion of the charge on the main air bags gets fired in a crash based on how far away that person is sitting from the Air Bag.
 Sitting under the passenger Occupancy Sensor Mat assembly on the R/F seat, we now have small electric fans coupled with a Peltier Effect Cooler to send Hot or Cold air through perforated seat material, AND, Massage Bladders on the Upper Seat Back, again with yet another air fan system sitting in the middle of that massage bladder system.  At the rear of the Front Headrests we have Screens for Rear Passenger Viewing, with Can Bus Wiring and Fiber Optic harnesses running through these seats to keep it all running and communicating with the vehicle.
 So, if someone wants to spend the R&D on it, I've learned they can get pretty creative at making things fit, even if it doesn't seem practical..... [smile]
  I amended my original post to include all of Festool's Saws since I should have listed them as such when I first posted.
 
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Offline Gator

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2017, 07:31 PM »
I was working with my Saw Stop Industrial cabinet saw all day today, and thought my mind was playing tricks on me.. I kept seeing a light green "haze' developing in the side of the cabinet.. naw.. must just be my eyes.. [eek]  [tongue]
When you stop having fun, stop doing it !

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Offline Holmz

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2017, 07:39 PM »
And where is that mini brake going to mount, and how heavy is it going to be ?

And how much torque do you think it's gonna generate when it fires, and are you going to be able to hold on when it does ?

Possible , sure.  Practical ?  Me thinks not.
With that mindset you would have fit right in with the Automotive World as I knew it in the late 80's when I started. Esp. with Air Bags and SRS.  Not a dig, just an observation... [wink]
 We started with a Drivers Side Air Bag years ago, now they're all over the vehicle, and we have travel sensors in the seat tracks of front seats to show the position of the occupant so an SRS Module can decide which portion of the charge on the main air bags gets fired in a crash based on how far away that person is sitting from the Air Bag.
 Sitting under the passenger Occupancy Sensor Mat assembly on the R/F seat, we now have small electric fans coupled with a Peltier Effect Cooler to send Hot or Cold air through perforated seat material, AND, Massage Bladders on the Upper Seat Back, again with yet another air fan system sitting in the middle of that massage bladder system.  At the rear of the Front Headrests we have Screens for Rear Passenger Viewing, with Can Bus Wiring and Fiber Optic harnesses running through these seats to keep it all running and communicating with the vehicle.
 So, if someone wants to spend the R&D on it, I've learned they can get pretty creative at making things fit, even if it doesn't seem practical..... [smile]
  I amended my original post to include all of Festool's Saws since I should have listed them as such when I first posted.

There was Ralph Nader and the Corvair.

Way before the US car maker's complaints about regulations, Volvo had invented the seat belt and had a roll cage.

Is there a moral or legal obligation to require people to protect themselves?
(With a car there is)

It is a bit bizarre to have our lives so precious that a hot coffee spill gets 1M$ settlement and on the other hand in the last week 340k new refugees were in the run in the Philippines.

And it is cheaper to have all saws made safe? Or to push that amount aside for the surgeons?

Offline antss

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2017, 10:32 PM »
"Is there a moral or legal obligation to require people to protect themselves?
(With a car there is)

It is a bit bizarre to have our lives so precious that a hot coffee spill gets 1M$ settlement and on the other hand in the last week 340k new refugees were in the run in the Philippines.

And it is cheaper to have all saws made safe? Or to push that amount aside for the surgeons? "



Not at all. caveat emptor, and personal responsibility play a part in this.  Who am I to tell you to not smoke cigarettes , despite overwhelming evidence to it shortening lifespans for the majority of people.   If you want to  ???????

Conversely , I don't want you telling me I need to have an explosive braking mechanism on my tablesaw because YOU think I many loose a digit.  It needs to be my choice.  I'm not infringing on your liberty - or - pocketbook by using saws without that feature.

The tort system , flawed as it is, still  allows for selling blazing hot coffee at my local establishment and without a warning in neon despite that award. 

Offline Paul G

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2017, 11:08 PM »
Who am I to tell you to not smoke cigarettes , despite overwhelming evidence to it shortening lifespans for the majority of people.   If you want to  ???????

I wish it still worked that way but when you are funding the medical care for the smoker then the entire dynamic changes. It's that liberty/security exchange at play. Saying much more would venture into political waters that are off limits here.
+1

Offline Huxleywood

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2017, 04:58 AM »

It is a bit bizarre to have our lives so precious that a hot coffee spill gets 1M$ settlement and...

But that never happened, at least not in the Liebeck v McDonalds case.  It is almost a universal truism that anytime anyone cites that case they get the facts wrong, even back in 1994. 



I think this is an interesting acquisition, one I don't think I would ever have thought would occur.  It will be quite interesting to see how TTS uses the IP.  While I would love to see an ICS in cream and green with Festo Sawstop on the side I am guessing that won't happen. 

Offline Jesse Cloud

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2017, 12:08 PM »
I can imagine synergy between the SS brake system and the CMS.  Maybe there's a path to getting a saw on the cms someday.

Offline lwoirhaye

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2017, 02:37 PM »
My bet is that Tooltechnic will acquire a maker of format table saws and move back into the woodworking machinery market or develop a blade braking system that can be licensed to makers of such saws.   

Online leakyroof

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2017, 04:06 PM »

It is a bit bizarre to have our lives so precious that a hot coffee spill gets 1M$ settlement and...

But that never happened, at least not in the Liebeck v McDonalds case.  It is almost a universal truism that anytime anyone cites that case they get the facts wrong, even back in 1994. 



I think this is an interesting acquisition, one I don't think I would ever have thought would occur.  It will be quite interesting to see how TTS uses the IP.  While I would love to see an ICS in cream and green with Festo Sawstop on the side I am guessing that won't happen.
   You should look up the slightly later case in the 90's about BMW versus a woman who got scalded when her chronically overheating BMW blew the heater core and burned her.
 An aftermarket shop modified the coolant system incorrectly to stave off a repair that she couldn't afford if I remember right, and BMW got sued in the aftermath, which then generated a National Recall/Campaign for all the E-30 3 series still on the road...... [blink]
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Offline Peter Durand

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2017, 04:22 PM »
I am sooo glad I bought my SawStop Industrial when I did. I could not afford the green painted version, which I suspect will sell for a lot more.

Offline RussellS

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2017, 04:46 PM »
My bet is that Tooltechnic will acquire a maker of format table saws and move back into the woodworking machinery market or develop a blade braking system that can be licensed to makers of such saws.

I sure hope that happens.  Yeah Yeah.  Not sure Tooltech will acquire a sliding table saw company.  Doubt they could finance anything like that.  That is like the minnow swallowing the whale.  But licensing it to Felder/Hammer, Minimax/SCMI, and several other European saw makers makes sense.  Improve the far superior European sliding table saw with the flesh detecting sensor.  Put all of the Chinese, Taiwanese, USA cabinet saw makers out of business in an instant.  Yeah.

Offline SouthRider

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2017, 09:56 PM »
Just put the sawstop technology in the Kapex, and then when it blows up you can blame the user for sticking their finger in there! [eek]
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Offline BoulderAv

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2017, 03:39 AM »
SawStop could be a good fit for Festool's parent. There are a few tools that could use the tech and Festool might be the company that is right to work with. A radical arm saw with the tech would be huge as would a jointer with ir. My money would be on Festool's engineers to make such ideas possible (working with those of SawStop) to make those products. If I am the parent of Festool I am looking into buying or competing against a Felder or SCM.

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2017, 04:16 AM »
It would make a RAS safer and it sounds like a good application of the tech.

The dangers of a RAS are probably what led to it's demise as much the
introduction of the SCMS did.

Still have mine and keep a dado stack mounted in it for making dados or
half laps where precision is not needed. Way faster than a router.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Tinker

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2017, 06:39 AM »
It would make a RAS safer and it sounds like a good application of the tech.

The dangers of a RAS are probably what led to it's demise as much the
introduction of the SCMS did.

Still have mine and keep a dado stack mounted in it for making dados or
half laps where precision is not needed. Way faster than a router.

My first shop saw was a RAS.  I used it for everything.  Cross cutting, ripping, dadoing, half laps, miter cuts and even used a sanding disc.  That sanding disc blew dust everywhere. 

I even loaded oto the back of my truch and took it to on site projects.  I never had a kickback. 

When I got my first table saw, I realized the shortcomings for that and quickly bought my SCMS.  Sold my RAS.  I now wish I had it back.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Online leakyroof

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2017, 09:06 AM »
It would make a RAS safer and it sounds like a good application of the tech.

The dangers of a RAS are probably what led to it's demise as much the
introduction of the SCMS did.

Still have mine and keep a dado stack mounted in it for making dados or
half laps where precision is not needed. Way faster than a router.

My first shop saw was a RAS.  I used it for everything.  Cross cutting, ripping, dadoing, half laps, miter cuts and even used a sanding disc.  That sanding disc blew dust everywhere. 

I even loaded oto the back of my truch and took it to on site projects.  I never had a kickback. 

When I got my first table saw, I realized the shortcomings for that and quickly bought my SCMS.  Sold my RAS.  I now wish I had it back.
Tinker
   I still cringe at the thought of Ripping on an RAS, but like you said, you had no issues..... [cool]
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Offline ChuckM

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2017, 10:38 AM »
mini brake would be totally unnecessary.  I have been using my TS55 for coming up on ten years without even a sniff of a chance to get hurt.  If someone did, they were doing something outside of it's operational intent and it would be Darwinism at work.   :o

This is exactly what many tablesaw owners say about the SawStop: totally unnecessary. We all know saws, including circular saws, cause injuries. I would keep an open mind about TTS buying SawStop and expanding SS.

There are many ways they can expand (of course, no one knows what TTS had in mind when it decided to buy out SS, but I believe it was a well-thought out financial or strategic decision). They can expand the sales and market of SS alone. Or, they can also expand the SS technology to other tools under the Festool brand name. Or, they can expand the SS technology to other non-Festool brands.

Knowing that the SS patents will eventually expire (in 5 years? So far no one has the official answer to that question. TTS should know it now, of course), TTS must have something up in the sleeve before it wanted to put down the money. Could it be aiming at something else that SS owns and that something is not known publicly yet? SS R&D dept. has been around for a decade and it could surprise us with things we don't know.

Things should be clearer in 2018, and if I were to prioritize, I would like to have my Kapex equipped with the SS feature, then the bandsaw. Drill press? Nah. Since I don't use a jointer anymore, or it would be the third machine I wanted the SS technology. Tablesaw? Mine is already a SawStop.

Before we rule out anything, such as a SS cannot be done on (fill-in-the-name-of=the-tool, because it is too small, too big, too fast, too slow, too expensive, too cheap...) (who would have thought 20 years ago that a tablesaw blade could be stopped in time in a hobby shop?), we should take note of this quote “For an idea that does not first seem insane, there is no hope.”

This insane quote is by Albert Einstein, if you want to know.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 10:50 AM by ChuckM »

Offline PeterK

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2017, 10:38 AM »
I wonder if the SS purchase will ever affect the Festool line? TTS I believe has a few different brand product lines and possibly the SS stuff will appear in one of them or maybe an entirely new line of non-portable tools.
Only the job site saw fits at all in the Festool lineup and even then Festool in Europe gives the option of using their TS saws in a table. Guess we will have to just wait to see what their plans are.

Online mcooley

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2017, 10:48 AM »
I have been wondering if something like this might happen with the Shaper Origin CNC router?

They are already endorsed by Festool. Which unfortunately doesn't mean Shaper Origin will have the same warranty on parts and labor nor I assume a service department with the same turn around. If they purchased Shaper just so those machines could be professionally warranted and quickly repaired then that would go a long way to making that tool more desirable for those looking to use it professionally.

One interesting point about Festool acquiring Sawstop is how popular those units have become in college and university settings. They maybe waited to see those numbers grow before acquiring them. I imagine the numbers are quite strong now. Every college I taught at seemed to be buying them etc. And the range was from public to private schools.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2017, 10:59 AM »


One interesting point about Festool acquiring Sawstop is how popular those units have become in college and university settings. They maybe waited to see those numbers grow before acquiring them. I imagine the numbers are quite strong now. Every college I taught at seemed to be buying them etc. And the range was from public to private schools.

With a few exceptions because of budgeting timing, all high school districts and schools in my province with woodworking programs switched to SS long ago. Usually, there are two SS (Indust.) per school. If my observations are correct, most established woodworking schools in North America are also switching to or equipping themselves with SS for students to use. Many companies are also proactive in this area s part of their Occupational Safety push.

Offline Charles959

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2017, 11:52 AM »
JLC coverage:

TTS Tooltechnic Systems Buys SawStop, by Chris Ermides.

Online Cheese

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2017, 08:40 AM »
JLC coverage:

TTS Tooltechnic Systems Buys SawStop, by Chris Ermides.

"...we are excited to join with TTS to bring safer woodworking to more people through new tools and in new markets around the world. With a family like TTS at our side, I can’t wait to see what we will accomplish together.”

Hmmm, that's an interesting statement.


Offline six-point socket II

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2018, 11:59 AM »
Hi,

Just a heads up for those attending HOLZ-HANDWERK in Nürnberg, Germany ( https://www.holz-handwerk.de/en ) : Festool brought SawStop along - I just spotted an introduction and demonstration on Festool's official Instagram (Stories).

To all attendees: HAVE FUN! :)

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2018, 12:12 PM »
 When I first moved to the UK about 4 years ago I was invited to Festool /TTS to review some table saws and give a eval along with a few other people and some festool Engineers. They had a CS 70 there along with a Saw Stop saw and a few other manufacturers.

I guess they were looking for feed back. Im sure we werent the only ones they did this with.

Offline promark747

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2018, 12:17 PM »
When I was at Woodcraft the other day, I saw that SawStop is now making a standalone router table.  Looked to be nicely built, though no better than a Jessem table -- and of course, it doesn't have a mechanism to stop the router bit if it detects flesh. I thought it was kind of an odd offering, though I heard they are also making one to add to connect to their existing table saws.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2018, 12:17 PM »
When I first moved to the UK about 4 years ago I was invited to Festool /TTS to review some table saws and give a eval along with a few other people and some festool Engineers. They had a CS 70 there along with a Saw Stop saw and a few other manufacturers.

I guess they were looking for feed back. Im sure we werent the only ones they did this with.

Festool actually also had a focus group discussion about table saws at a JLCLive event around that timeframe.  Hopefully now that TTS owns Sawstop we will see a Festool tablesaw in the future.

Peter

Online Sanderxpander

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2018, 12:43 PM »
mini brake would be totally unnecessary.  I have been using my TS55 for coming up on ten years without even a sniff of a chance to get hurt.  If someone did, they were doing something outside of it's operational intent and it would be Darwinism at work.   :o

The other day I saw a guy freehand cutting with it, making grooves in a left-over piece of pole hanging from a patio overhang. He was standing on a ladder. I stood watching for a couple of seconds trying to decide if he was trying to cut it off or prepping for a giant insurance claim. His colleague started watching me, puzzled and half annoyed at what I was doing. I decided the potential bloodbath was more than I could stomach and left.

Offline ben_r_

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2018, 02:22 PM »
When I was at Woodcraft the other day, I saw that SawStop is now making a standalone router table.  Looked to be nicely built, though no better than a Jessem table -- and of course, it doesn't have a mechanism to stop the router bit if it detects flesh. I thought it was kind of an odd offering, though I heard they are also making one to add to connect to their existing table saws.
All of their new accessories are just rebranded/repainted from other manufacturers. Its pretty sad actually. I expected more from them.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2018, 04:41 PM »
Festool actually also had a focus group discussion about table saws at a JLCLive event around that timeframe.  Hopefully now that TTS owns Sawstop we will see a Festool tablesaw in the future.

Peter

And I would hope that Bosch will soon be able to sell the REAXX table saw in NA now that Steve Gass is (hopefully) out of the picture. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline NL-mikkla

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2019, 03:58 AM »
Yesterday I was at a fair where there was a festool tool presentation.
The new tablesaw from festool was being displayed equipped with saw stop tech inside. The salerep confimred it comes out in 2020.
It looks like the precisio but it is not a pull saw, the saw height is upgraded to 80mm.
Not much more info since it was a prototype, it sounded like a brushless motor but they couldn’t confirme since it was a prototype and could possibly be changed before it comes out. I have some pictures, will try to upload later

My guess is that this machine is now ready for NA market
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 04:13 AM by NL-mikkla »

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2019, 09:01 AM »
If I could get a pull saw w/ sawstop tech I'd spring for the price.

Been getting by with an old DeWalt and seriously considering an Erika as the pull saw looks ideal for a small shop but as I get older I become more attached to my appendages and want to stay that way.

 [popcorn]
RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline NL-mikkla

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2019, 09:59 AM »
The promised pictures!

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2019, 12:30 PM »
I become more attached to my appendages and want to stay that way.
 

Richard, your comment reminds me of the knight in the Monty Python and the Holy Grail movie - "It's only a flesh wound!" 

 [big grin]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2019, 08:35 PM »
I become more attached to my appendages and want to stay that way.
 

Richard, your comment reminds me of the knight in the Monty Python and the Holy Grail movie - "It's only a flesh wound!" 

 [big grin]

 [scratch chin] An absolute classic.

The boss often asks me "what'd you do this time?" when I come in with a digit wrapped in a paper towel and electrical tape.

"Sprung another leak" is the standard reply.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline jeffm13

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2019, 03:41 AM »
Sawstop patents start to expire in 2021. Although, apparently there are more than 100 patents active. So it might take a while before we'll see prices come down.
Festool: TS75, DF500, DF700, OF1400, LR32, ETS EC 150/5, DTS400, RS2E, T18, TXS, CT36, PS420, FS1400 (2), FS1400/2-LR 32, FS 2424/2-LR 32, Tradesman/Installer Cleaning Set; TSO: MTR-18, GRS-16 PE; UJK: Parf Dogs, Super Dogs, Parf Guide System MkII, Seneca: Parallel Guides, Domiplate, Domishim; Makita: 3000mm Guide Rail; Jessem: Mast-R-Lift w/metric conversion kit, Pow-R-Tec Router, Mast-R-Fence, Mit-R-Slide, ClearCut Stock Guides; Grizzly: G0441 Cyclone, G0691 Table Saw; Laguna: 18BX Bandsaw; Robland: X31 Combination Machine; Incra: MagnaLock Cleansweep; Woodpecker: 1281-300mm, 600mm T-Square, 1200mm Ruler, 1200mm Story Stick Pro; Bosch: GCM12SD Glide Miter Saw

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2019, 07:13 AM »
If I could get a pull saw w/ sawstop tech I'd spring for the price.

Been getting by with an old DeWalt and seriously considering an Erika as the pull saw looks ideal for a small shop but as I get older I become more attached to my appendages and want to stay that way.

 [popcorn]
RMW

This is a new one on me, never heard the term before this thread, what is a 'pull saw', a RAS maybe ?
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Paul G

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2019, 07:59 AM »
This is a new one on me, never heard the term before this thread, what is a 'pull saw', a RAS maybe ?

Search for “mafell erika 85ec pull-push saw” and you will find plenty of info on it. Here’s a retailer https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-erika-85ec-pull-push-saw
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 08:12 AM by Paul G »
+1

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2019, 09:01 AM »
OK, followed your link and that is something I was not aware existed.

Lots of advantages when working with larger workpieces with the blade being moved through the stationary piece.

I wonder could the RAS make a comeback if it had the SawStop flesh-detecting technology.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Paul G

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2019, 09:16 AM »
A sawstop RAS would be interesting.
+1

Online Cheese

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #55 on: February 17, 2019, 10:14 AM »
A pull saw really is a just an upside down RAS except that it's 4X the cost.  [popcorn] [popcorn]

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2019, 10:56 AM »
Anyone know the particular advantage(s) of this pull push saw over the table saw (used with a cross cut sled or mitre gauge), given that it is not cheaper than a cabinet saw?

http://www.tool-hunter.com/shopsmith-posts/shopsmith-5-in-1-tools-like-the-mark-v-mark-vii-and-more/sawsmith-2000-tablesaw-information-history-review

("...the saw began a slow march to its inevitable death.')
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 12:16 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Lincoln

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2019, 09:01 PM »
A pull saw really is a just an upside down RAS except that it's 4X the cost.  [popcorn] [popcorn]

Nah, more like a table saw with ras capabilities

Offline JimH2

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2019, 11:21 AM »
Sawstop patents start to expire in 2021. Although, apparently there are more than 100 patents active. So it might take a while before we'll see prices come down.

No one should base purchasing decisions on the hopes of expiring patents and the lower pricing that might be seen.

Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2019, 04:02 PM »
A pull saw really is a just an upside down RAS except that it's 4X the cost.  [popcorn] [popcorn]

"A pull saw really is a just an upside down RAS except that it's 4X the cost"... & less likely to rip the material out of your hands?

Those things frighten me, my only experience with one ended with a "whammo!" & a chunk was taken out of the board I was carelessly cutting. Never recovered.

RMW

« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 06:12 PM by Richard/RMW »
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #60 on: February 19, 2019, 12:58 PM »
Sawstop patents start to expire in 2021. Although, apparently there are more than 100 patents active. So it might take a while before we'll see prices come down.

No one should base purchasing decisions on the hopes of expiring patents and the lower pricing that might be seen.

From the wiki: "The SawStop patents begin to expire in August 2021, with filed extensions this could extend until April 2024 for the early patents. Given that there are about 100 patents, patent protection for this product line may continue for some years."

If other sawmakers could start making their own versions of sawstop in 2021 or soon after that, and Bosch could resume selling its REAXX, the question is: What TTS acquired SawStop for? Couldn't Festool wait?

I wonder if the patent story is that simple.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 01:02 PM by ChuckM »

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Offline JimH2

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Re: Festool parent acquires Saw Stop
« Reply #61 on: February 19, 2019, 03:56 PM »
Maybe the key patents don't expire until 2024 giving Festool plenty of time to integrate and improve it and/or possibly license it to other manufacturers. It's all speculation, but I seriously doubt this was a handout to SawStop.

They may also have other safety products in the pipeline that are equally valuable.