Author Topic: RAS  (Read 1788 times)

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Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2571
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
RAS
« on: July 08, 2019, 06:44 AM »
I have read the Festool RAS is being phased out. From the little I’ve read on the tool, it seems to be a grinder that uses 5” sandpaper.

If I’m doing stock removal, I use my RO 125. I don’t see the need for the RAS.

What am I missing?
Birdhunter

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Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3805
Re: RAS
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2019, 07:06 AM »
The RAS isn't for normal sanding where you're trying to get the wood flat and smooth, but comes into play for a host of specialized applications.  It works great for heavy stripping applications, like when you have multiple layers/years of paint or adhesive built up on something.  Whenever I pour epoxy, I use the RAS first to knock down the hardened puddles to the surface level.  Or for spot scribing, like when you have to fit something to a wavy wall.  Also works well when you have to cope boards to fit.

Another use is for wood sculpting.  Not quite as fast as an angle grinder outfitted with a sanding pad (or a Kutzall disc for that matter), but you gain dust control.
 


I have read the Festool RAS is being phased out. From the little I’ve read on the tool, it seems to be a grinder that uses 5” sandpaper.

If I’m doing stock removal, I use my RO 125. I don’t see the need for the RAS.

What am I missing?
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6023
Re: RAS
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2019, 07:24 AM »
What am I missing?

3800 RPM vs 600 RPM.

Which is like a Lada versus a stock car.

Offline SRSemenza

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  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: RAS
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2019, 12:54 AM »
The RAS removes material waaaaay faster than a Rotex.

Seth

Offline AndrewG

  • Posts: 97
RAS
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2019, 03:00 AM »
I’m part way through a refinishing job at the moment, probably 50 plus hours of sanding.

I started using my rotex to remove many years of oil on a pergola, it worked but was fairly slow. I then got my RAS 115 out with 80 grit saphir and it was much quicker. The finish is a little rough but I then used my RO90 or a RO150 and it came up beautifully. Very happy with the results.

I’ve also used my RAS 115 to sculpt furniture, it’s just a very useful tool. I definitely wouldn’t be without mine.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 530
Re: RAS
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2019, 10:01 AM »
What am I missing?

3800 RPM vs 600 RPM.

Which is like a Lada versus a stock car.

So as someone who just didn't understand this sander, I went back to a 2017 catalog I had.  Clear to see why people would just ignore it.  It's in the back in "specialty" sanders between the Planex and Duplex.  Festool doesn't really say much of anything, One page is just a side photo with a two sentence paragraph under it, everything else is white space.  Just tells folks it's good at stripping and sanding.  No explanation of why it's a good option or what it does.  For specs, it's almost nothing there,  5 lines.  Power : 500w, Pad Size: 115mm, Speed: 1500-4000rpm, Port: 27mm,  Weight: 2.3kg.  And that's it. 

It's not a surprise people would just pass on by,  Festool made zero effort to sell these.  The lack of info definitely just makes it come across as an angle grinder.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2280
Re: RAS
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2019, 11:05 AM »
What am I missing?

3800 RPM vs 600 RPM.

Which is like a Lada versus a stock car.

So as someone who just didn't understand this sander, I went back to a 2017 catalog I had.  Clear to see why people would just ignore it.  It's in the back in "specialty" sanders between the Planex and Duplex.  Festool doesn't really say much of anything, One page is just a side photo with a two sentence paragraph under it, everything else is white space.  Just tells folks it's good at stripping and sanding.  No explanation of why it's a good option or what it does.  For specs, it's almost nothing there,  5 lines.  Power : 500w, Pad Size: 115mm, Speed: 1500-4000rpm, Port: 27mm,  Weight: 2.3kg.  And that's it. 

It's not a surprise people would just pass on by,  Festool made zero effort to sell these.  The lack of info definitely just makes it come across as an angle grinder.
  Yep, until you own one, you don't know what you're missing since as you correctly noted, Festool didn't exactly sell these Sanders with Large Banners proclaiming their virtues.....
 I've seen more YouTube videos from users make sense of the Tool's abilities than anything from Festool's marketing people.
 It's a shame it's going away, I hope the abrasives at least are available for years to come for it, as well as new pads, since it's the pads that the weakest link if you get them too hot during sanding.
 You CAN swap the Hook-it/Fast Fix pads over to the Center Screw style if Festool is still offering that other pad like they once did.
 I've used it to strip Finishes, Paint, Weathered Wood, and as a Floor Edger in a pinch for tight spaces where a normal 7" edger wasn't the easiest to work with on a floor sanding job.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1866
Re: RAS
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2019, 11:16 AM »
The specs on the new cordless angle grinder indicate a 14mm thread just like the RAS. That should mean pads and abrasives will continue, as well as any items they add to the line. It also means the new tool will be a bit limited for generic shelf items common to all the other tools out there. An adapter would be a welcome item, standard addition to the kit of course.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1152
Re: RAS
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2019, 01:14 PM »
What am I missing?

3800 RPM vs 600 RPM.

Which is like a Lada versus a stock car.

So as someone who just didn't understand this sander, I went back to a 2017 catalog I had.  Clear to see why people would just ignore it.  It's in the back in "specialty" sanders between the Planex and Duplex.  Festool doesn't really say much of anything, One page is just a side photo with a two sentence paragraph under it, everything else is white space.  Just tells folks it's good at stripping and sanding.  No explanation of why it's a good option or what it does.  For specs, it's almost nothing there,  5 lines.  Power : 500w, Pad Size: 115mm, Speed: 1500-4000rpm, Port: 27mm,  Weight: 2.3kg.  And that's it. 

It's not a surprise people would just pass on by,  Festool made zero effort to sell these.  The lack of info definitely just makes it come across as an angle grinder.

Have to agree with this assessment, not much effort put into selling this tool. And there is little more (if any) info about it on the website.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6023
Re: RAS
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2019, 02:02 PM »
The RAS has max 3800 RPM. Festool's new cordless angle grinder has 4500 RPM at its lowest setting, so that's pretty close.

The RAS is a tool from a time power tools had no speed dial, and the standard angle grinder certainly didn't have one back then. So now the RAS has become a bit obsolete, because lots of angle grinders have a speed dial these days.


Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2280
Re: RAS
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2019, 03:42 PM »
The specs on the new cordless angle grinder indicate a 14mm thread just like the RAS. That should mean pads and abrasives will continue, as well as any items they add to the line. It also means the new tool will be a bit limited for generic shelf items common to all the other tools out there. An adapter would be a welcome item, standard addition to the kit of course.
  not sure if that's so since most angle grinders don't really use Velcro as their fastening media for the abrasive wheel. Instead, , unless they decide to do it differently , I suspect a slow death of the pads and abrasives from Festool for the RAS.... [scratch chin]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6023
Re: RAS
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2019, 04:38 PM »
not sure if that's so since most angle grinders don't really use Velcro as their fastening media for the abrasive wheel. Instead, , unless they decide to do it differently , I suspect a slow death of the pads and abrasives from Festool for the RAS.... [scratch chin]



These 115 mm pads do. In fact, that's why the RAS also has a 115 mm pad (4'') because it is a standard over here. Paper with velcro backing is widely available for it.

Only thing you miss out on if the RAS goes away is the dust hood, and while it's certainly not ideal, it's better than nothing.

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1866
Re: RAS
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2019, 09:07 PM »
not sure if that's so since most angle grinders don't really use Velcro as their fastening media for the abrasive wheel. Instead, , unless they decide to do it differently , I suspect a slow death of the pads and abrasives from Festool for the RAS.... [scratch chin]

(Attachment Link)

These 115 mm pads do. In fact, that's why the RAS also has a 115 mm pad (4'') because it is a standard over here. Paper with velcro backing is widely available for it.

Only thing you miss out on if the RAS goes away is the dust hood, and while it's certainly not ideal, it's better than nothing.

Alex,

Are 14mm arbors used on other similar tools from European manufacturers?
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6134
Re: RAS
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2019, 09:24 PM »
Are 14mm arbors used on other similar tools from European manufacturers?

Not Alex Greg... but 14 mm is the defacto standard for EU equipment. Was looking at a few 14 mm to 5/8" adapters today and they're all too long, so they place the sanding disc in a poor position relative to the RAS sanding shroud. Effective dust pickup would become circumspect.

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1866
Re: RAS
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2019, 10:46 PM »
Are 14mm arbors used on other similar tools from European manufacturers?

Not Alex Greg... but 14 mm is the defacto standard for EU equipment. Was looking at a few 14 mm to 5/8" adapters today and they're all too long, so they place the sanding disc in a poor position relative to the RAS sanding shroud. Effective dust pickup would become circumspect.

That was my suspicion. There is not enough space to make a threaded bushing with 14mm ID and a 5/8” ID.

So, if Festool brings this tool here it will either need to support a 14mm platform with consumables or change it to 5/8. The former helps us RAS owners and the latter makes the tool compatible to the rest of the AG market.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6134
Re: RAS
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2019, 11:50 PM »

That was my suspicion. There is not enough space to make a threaded bushing with 14mm ID and a 5/8” ID.

So, if Festool brings this tool here it will either need to support a 14mm platform with consumables or change it to 5/8. The former helps us RAS owners and the latter makes the tool compatible to the rest of the AG market.

Ya, my only reason for investigating the 14 mm to 5/8-11 adaptor was to make sure that my behind is protected if Festool decides to obsolete the RAS consumables. Having owned many Milwaukee products for tens/twenties of years I have a suitable supply of consumables that will let me weather the storm. From diamond surfacing discs to single hole sandpaper. I'd just like the same assurance from Festool that their commitment to customer support will be met for the next 10 years as that's what they've signed up for.  Radio silence...

However, history precedes us and we've been through this drill before when Festool announced through 3rd parties, no less, that the circular saw blades for metal cutting would be discontinued...then the MFS became obsolete and the spark trap was no longer available.

Did Festool corporate make that announcement...no it came from a third party source much the same as the RAS announcement did. I thank Shane for the head's up, that's really appreciated as seen by the over 1000 reads of this post.

Isn't this a corporate decision and thus, shouldn't it demand a corporate backed response?


 
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 08:35 AM by Cheese »

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2280
Re: RAS
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2019, 11:50 PM »
not sure if that's so since most angle grinders don't really use Velcro as their fastening media for the abrasive wheel. Instead, , unless they decide to do it differently , I suspect a slow death of the pads and abrasives from Festool for the RAS.... [scratch chin]

(Attachment Link)

These 115 mm pads do. In fact, that's why the RAS also has a 115 mm pad (4'') because it is a standard over here. Paper with velcro backing is widely available for it.

Only thing you miss out on if the RAS goes away is the dust hood, and while it's certainly not ideal, it's better than nothing.
. Here, a 4 1/2” or 5 “ sander or grinder is as noted, most likely to have a 5/8” spindle thread, and backing plates with a single recessed nut holding a disc onto the plate if it’s a sander, or, the  grinding wheel or flap disc has a built in 5/8” female thread or arbor.
 Velcro just isn’t the norm in this application from what I’ve seen. Maybe we’ll change at some point.. [smile]
 
I think the OSHA Dust Collection changes for Masonry work might move previously neglected grinders and sanders into more widespread hood collection systems being offered for grinders as an option instead of specialized tools only.

What’s even more fun Alex, is if you go low ball on price and get a really cheap off-Shore or Chinese grinder and the spindle is oddball from Euro 14mm or USA 5/8”... [embarassed]
I’ve seen 10mm spindles on 4” grinders, usually air powered tools to be sure, but not standard.... [big grin]
 
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 530
Re: RAS
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2019, 12:17 AM »


What’s even more fun Alex, is if you go low ball on price and get a really cheap off-Shore or Chinese grinder and the spindle is oddball from Euro 14mm or USA 5/8”... [embarassed]


Maybe Festool should have labeled the RAS as being 5/8 nut for North America, not saying change the thread, just change the label.  [wink]. Worked for the other tools  [unsure]


Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 530
Re: RAS
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2019, 12:22 AM »
Radio silence...

However, history precedes us and we've been through this drill before when Festool announced through 3rd parties, no less, that the circular saw blades for metal cutting would be discontinued...then the MFS became obsolete and the spark trap was no longer available.

Did Festool corporate make that announcement...no it came from a third party source much the same as the RAS announcement did.

Isn't this a corporate decision and thus, shouldn't it demand a corporate backed response?


Maybe Festool Discontinued the employee who makes the announcements about discontinuations, but we never found out because there was no one to make the announcement about the discontinuation of the discontinuation announcement employee... 

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6134
Re: RAS
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2019, 12:31 AM »
Maybe Festool should have labeled the RAS as being 5/8 nut for North America, not saying change the thread, just change the label.  [wink]. Worked for the other tools  [unsure]

Good idea...14 mm is pretty close to 5/8".  I have an "Imperial" HKC that follows that philosophy.  [big grin] [big grin]

« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 08:38 AM by Cheese »

Offline Peter Halle

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  • Posts: 11952
Re: RAS
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2019, 08:10 AM »
Festool USA is working to get the clarification on the future availability of backing pads.  Once they either supply me with information or they decide to post directly the answers will be here.

Peter


Offline awdriven

  • Posts: 289
Re: RAS
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2019, 09:12 AM »
This is sad to hear! I was shaping a maple knife handle with my RAS yesterday and you could literally watch the grain scroll by as the pad moved down into the wood. It has a lot of power in a tool of manageable heft. How long will consumables be available?

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3805
Re: RAS
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2019, 01:30 PM »
Thanks Peter.  Will stay tuned.

Festool USA is working to get the clarification on the future availability of backing pads.  Once they either supply me with information or they decide to post directly the answers will be here.

Peter
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3