Author Topic: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.  (Read 2587 times)

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Offline BriAntic

  • Posts: 6
Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« on: March 14, 2018, 06:58 AM »
Long story short, I'm devoting more time and effort into my carpentry. With that comes a complete re-tooling of my shop..aka garage.

I'm about to pull the trigger on either a Hammer C3 or SCM cu300, I was going to pick up a drum sander as well but it seems the only ones worth owning are north of $3000. I can't justify that for a convenience machine considering I don't really do the niche work that it excels at. When I have the space, money, and production requirements for a true wide belt setup thats what I will buy.

I've decided on going with a complete Festool setup for now. My bread and butter projects are workbenches, tables, and drawer systems. Baltic birch sheet stock is used for the drawers and yellow pine and maple for most of the rest. Other than the sheet stock the only finishing I'll need to be doing is what comes out of the planer. Nothing too terribly rough.

That being said, what would provide me with a full setup?

I'm going to grab the CT-48 for dust collection.

-I was thinking the RS 2 would make quick work of the sheet stock.

-RO-150 for the rough (5mm stroke)

-ETS-EC-150 for the fine (3mm stroke)

-RTS or DTS(?) for the super fine (2mm stroke)

Am I missing anything with that setup? Any recommendations?

Thanks! -Brian

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Online Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 517
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2018, 07:28 AM »
Welcome to the FOG!

About the Dust extractor. The CT 26,36 & 48 all have the same foot print and suction capability. The only difference is the capacity. If you plan to carry the CT on jobs I suggest the smaller one and in all case get a long life bag or a UDD (especially if the CT remains in the shop)

How are you planning to rip your BB? Perhaps a TS 55 can be added to your list.

I agree about the drum sander, those are very nice to have and works very well. Personally on those expensive tools I tend to wait to get a commission that will at least pay off half of the investment.

Mario
Mario

Offline BriAntic

  • Posts: 6
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2018, 07:36 AM »
Thanks Mario, the first two machines I listed (Hammer and SCM) are giant Euro-style combination machines. The BB will be ripped using whichever one of those I decide on, although Festool's track saws do look very nifty.

The CT - as well as all of my tools - will live in my shop except for a few rare occasions. Portability is not a concern of mine.

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 160
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2018, 07:37 AM »
You may not even need a Rotex if you don't plan on stripping paint or shaping quite rough lumber. I can't imagine ever using it on sheet goods or relatively clean planed lumber. Still a great machine but I'm afraid you may wish you'd gone for an ETS EC 150/5 instead. And definitely add a delta sander in there, DTS400 is the only suggestion in your list that can handle corners.

Offline BriAntic

  • Posts: 6
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2018, 07:42 AM »
So you think I should ditch the Rotex for an ETS EC 150 5mm and 3mm combo? I could see that working out, it should be plenty to knock down any marks from the planer right?

Also yes, I think you're right. I usually sand before assembly so corner sanding isn't a huge necessity but it would be better to have it and not need it than the other way around.

Offline deepcreek

  • Posts: 727
    • TimberFire Studio
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2018, 08:31 AM »
I have a Rotex 150 that I never use other than stripping.  Some people prefer them for finish sanding but I only go to 180 for my hardwax oil finish and it always seemed to leave sanding marks.

I now use an ETS 150/5 for rougher stock (anything up to 100 grit) and switch to the ETS 150/3 for 120 grit and up.  I also have the RTS 400 for edges.  I love this set up.

I prefer the older ETS design to the newer ETS EC models in terms of ergonomics.

I have seen the ETS EC models demonstrated and they are amazingly capable sanders in terms of not being able to stall them.
Joe Adams
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

http://www.facebook.com/timberfire

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2196
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2018, 08:55 AM »
You may not even need a Rotex if you don't plan on stripping paint or shaping quite rough lumber. I can't imagine ever using it on sheet goods or relatively clean planed lumber. Still a great machine but I'm afraid you may wish you'd gone for an ETS EC 150/5 instead. And definitely add a delta sander in there, DTS400 is the only suggestion in your list that can handle corners.
. ^^^^^^^^^^. This...Your choice on ETS EC or the older ETS version, but either is easy to use and much lighter than the larger Rotex.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline BriAntic

  • Posts: 6
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2018, 09:37 AM »
I need to start off by saying that I undervalued this forum immensely; the speed and quality of replies are outstanding. Thank you to everyone here.

I'll do some research on the differences between the EC and older models, I'm generally a fan of buying better initially to prevent costly upgrades in the future and I assume the EC is the way to go, I might be wrong.

So it appears my ideal setup will be this:

-ETS EC 150 (5mm)

-ETS EC 150 (3mm) and RS 2 (2.5mm)

-RTS 400 (2mm)

-CT-48E

I did a little research and I am going to go with the RTS over the DTS 400; my reasoning is I want to able to rotate the paper on the RTS and not have to deal with burning out the edge on the DTS, more or less wasting paper.

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 160
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2018, 09:56 AM »
I have never tried sanding with a 3mm stroke after a 5mm stroke, I can't say how necessary it is. For what I've done, a 5mm stroke seems fine. But I use a Mirka Deros instead of a Festool, and Mirka Abranet instead of Festool Granat/Rubin/whatever. After 180 grit I really can't spot any scratches. This is based mostly on sheet goods, I don't have a ton of experience with hard woods yet. But my suggestion would be to start of with the 5mm version and see if you really need a 3mm one. The Deros comes with 125mm and 150mm pads (or the kit I bought did), sometimes the smaller pad is nicer (e.g. rail and style doors). I believer the ETS EC 125 also fits the larger 150mm pad but not the other way around, perhaps this is worth considering.

Also, contrary to deepcreek I really really love the lightness and form factor of the DC/EC motors (the Mirka has one too). If you're doubting, find a shop that has both and pick one up.

By the way the RTS and DTS soles are exchangeable - not super quick like in the middle of sanding, but there's no real harm done if you later on figure out you do need it for the odd corner, you can just get the DTS sole and some paper. Not sure what the RTS would be doing in your setup though, are you expecting to sand a lot of edges but not corners? At first glance it seems to me the RS2 and ETS should have covered most stuff the RTS could do?

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2018, 11:00 AM »
Welcome to the forum!  [smile]  @BriAntic

A note on the vac size.  The CT48 is actually an inch wider and about 4" longer than the CT26 and CT36, and of course taller.

For the sanding you have planned you really won't need the Rotex. You can do it with either type of ETS150 (or EC) and either 3mm or 5mm stroke. You don't really need   both in the ETS150. However if getting two I would  get Rotex 150 and ETS150/3 (or EC) for the versatility.  If going with one and no plans for a Rotex the /5 covers a broader range and can still do between coat finish sanding.  But if I were you , based on the work you describe, I would get just an ETS150/3 (or EC). Skip the RS2 and /5 and Rotex until you see what the single /3 does for you.  Also the ETS150s do a good job on large flat panels.

Seth

Online Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 517
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2018, 02:14 PM »
@SRSemenza I did not know the CT 48 had a different foot print, thanks for the info :)

@BriAntic You may also consider the Rotex 90 for the delta mode. I have the RO 90 + ETS EC 125/3 and plan on the ETS EC 150/5 to complete my sanders collection.

EC (brushless) is the way to go.

Mario
Mario

Offline Pnw painter

  • Posts: 155
Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2018, 02:54 PM »
In all honesty, the DTS 400 and 150 ETS/EC (5 mm) will cover about 95% of your needs in a shop environment. In my opinion, these are the 2 most versatile and most enjoyable sanders to use.

The only time I use my Rotex sanders are for stripping paint. Beyond that I’ll always reach for my 150 ETC/EC sander first.


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Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 781
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2018, 03:21 PM »
Pretty good advice on the Festool tools, but just for fun...

I haven't seen any advice yet on how you can get an adult to complete your setup.  I've also found that one of the things that makes sanding (and finishing, for that matter) much more enjoyable is having another adult do it for you.

I once heard of a woodworker whose wife loved to help him in the shop by doing the sanding and finishing.  This strategy has not worked for me, as I may have mentioned in other posts.

Adults are really necessary.  Kids like my 6 and 9 year old granddaughters can be taught that sanding is enjoyable (I've had some success), but they don't really have the attention span or sense of quality.  Teenagers are otherwise occupied.

In the old days you could take on apprentices and make them sand for a year or two, but sadly that model is not much in vogue these days.  You could hire someone to do it, but employees are just too much legal headache for occasional work, and contractors can't make enough money sanding for hobbyists.

So if you have a good solution, let me know.  Barring that, I think the above advice from others on Festool sanders is pretty good.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2196
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2018, 03:38 PM »
I have never tried sanding with a 3mm stroke after a 5mm stroke, I can't say how necessary it is. For what I've done, a 5mm stroke seems fine. But I use a Mirka Deros instead of a Festool, and Mirka Abranet instead of Festool Granat/Rubin/whatever. After 180 grit I really can't spot any scratches. This is based mostly on sheet goods, I don't have a ton of experience with hard woods yet. But my suggestion would be to start of with the 5mm version and see if you really need a 3mm one. The Deros comes with 125mm and 150mm pads (or the kit I bought did), sometimes the smaller pad is nicer (e.g. rail and style doors). I believer the ETS EC 125 also fits the larger 150mm pad but not the other way around, perhaps this is worth considering.

Also, contrary to deepcreek I really really love the lightness and form factor of the DC/EC motors (the Mirka has one too). If you're doubting, find a shop that has both and pick one up.

By the way the RTS and DTS soles are exchangeable - not super quick like in the middle of sanding, but there's no real harm done if you later on figure out you do need it for the odd corner, you can just get the DTS sole and some paper. Not sure what the RTS would be doing in your setup though, are you expecting to sand a lot of edges but not corners? At first glance it seems to me the RS2 and ETS should have covered most stuff the RTS could do?
.  Are the newer versions of the RTS and the DTS interchangeably anymore. I thought @Alex in Europe had covered this at one point here on FOG.... I could wrong...
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline RustE

  • Posts: 306
Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2018, 04:35 PM »
I’m thinking the new DTS and RTS pads are not interchangeable. The pads on older models are interchangeable.

While I like the feel and balance of the RTS better than the DTS, both are useful. Although I have an older Porter-Cable sander with a triangular pad for tight spaces.

Any reason not to add an ETS125REQ?  Just seems like the 125mm pad size might be a better match for some of the projects described in the opening post.

Offline jobsworth

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  • Does Anyone Know What Time It Is?
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2018, 05:35 PM »
I think the RO 150 and the ETS 150/3 would do ya. Id also get the hard pad (blue) for the R)150 it will help flatten panels and work good with sheet goods. You might want to pick up the interface pad to.

This way you dont have to buy  lot of different size sand paper and it will what you want quite well. The CT 26 should be all you need. The only difference is size of the machine/capacity and cost.
Everything else is the same.

Offline BriAntic

  • Posts: 6
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2018, 06:45 PM »
I think the RO 150 and the ETS 150/3 would do ya. Id also get the hard pad (blue) for the R)150 it will help flatten panels and work good with sheet goods. You might want to pick up the interface pad to.

This way you dont have to buy  lot of different size sand paper and it will what you want quite well. The CT 26 should be all you need. The only difference is size of the machine/capacity and cost.
Everything else is the same.

You know, I think you're quite right. I was looking at my shopping cart over at Bob Marino's and nearly half of the total was from sanders alone, I'm all about buying the right tool for the job but I think I got carried away.

Your plan seems to make the most sense to me. The RO fills the role of both mass material removal and long stroke random orbital and the ETS will bridge the gap to the RTS. Also, I didn't realize the only difference was size with the CT's. I will go with the 36 just because I don't want to always be emptying it.

Just to re-iterate, this forum is awesome. - Brian

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 160
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2018, 07:55 PM »
Sorry about the misinformation on the RTS/DTS soles, I totally assumed the new ones to be interchangeable as well, how lame that they aren't. Not very system-y.

I still don't see why you'd need a Rotex but it's a very good tool and will probably sell easily if it does end up staying in the systainer.

Offline BriAntic

  • Posts: 6
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2018, 08:01 PM »
Sorry about the misinformation on the RTS/DTS soles, I totally assumed the new ones to be interchangeable as well, how lame that they aren't. Not very system-y.

I still don't see why you'd need a Rotex but it's a very good tool and will probably sell easily if it does end up staying in the systainer.

No worries!

In all honesty I probably don't need it right now..but..I want it? Haha, it seems like one of those things that you won't use often, but when you need it you'll be glad you had it. Just trying to plan ahead.

Offline Discap

  • Posts: 82
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2018, 11:34 PM »
FWIW when the repo man shows up to haul off my tools, he will have to fight me for the Rotex 150. If I could truly only have one sander that is it. Granted it can eat a hole through veneer in the blink of an eye, it can also polish the paint on your car. All about getting used to it. I regularly change between hard,soft and interface.

I also have the ETS 150/3. Great finishing sander, but that is all it does. If I am sanding sheet good exclusively I use it.

My $0.02

Bill

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5695
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2018, 03:06 AM »
Are the newer versions of the RTS and the DTS interchangeably anymore. I thought @Alex in Europe had covered this at one point here on FOG.... I could wrong...

Pads for the older DS 400/ RS 400 sanders were interchangeable.

Then it became more difficult with the next gen DTS 400 / RTS 400, but still doable if you really want, though there are  few hoops to jump through.

Looking at Ekat, nothing has changed for the newest REQ models, so still doable, but not easy.

I'd advice against it, even with my old DS400 it became a problem after a while because the aluminium base that accepts the screws that hold the pad is too soft and the screw holes stripped out. I had to tap them up from M4 to M5.

Offline serge0n

  • Posts: 59
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2018, 01:16 PM »
Don't ditch the Rotex if workbenches and tables are your bread and butter. People who advised you to do so probably never had to flatten a table top (or any hardwood panel) with a handheld sander. Sure, RS2 will do it as well, but it will take forever, especially if boards were joined with a lesser machine than a Domino, a DD40 or a Lamello. Even with a Domino you can have some minor misalignment.

RO150 (flattening panels and polishing), ETS EC 150/3 (general sanding) and DTS 400 (corner and edge sanding) should cover most of your sanding needs. RTS400 is much better for sanding edges than DTS 400 as it has more holes in the pad, so much less sanding dust escapes when your are sanding narrow surfaces or edges.

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 165
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2018, 03:02 PM »
I've read some stuff on the 1/2 sheet sanders recently that claimed they are quite fast. 

I had a couple of drum sanders but eventually acquired a stroke sander and a small 13" wide belt at auctions and ditched the drum sanders.   Both machines needed work but between them they are insanely efficient.   Drum sanding alway seemed like watching paint dry to me and the wide belt confirms that there's no comparison.

Drum sanders also can mess up stock.  I know some guys love them and even got discouraged at one point in trying to get my wide belt going, considered selling it at a loss and getting another drum sander.  I'm glad I persevered and figured the machine out.


Offline Coen

  • Posts: 364
Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2018, 06:49 PM »
Are the newer versions of the RTS and the DTS interchangeably anymore. I thought @Alex in Europe had covered this at one point here on FOG.... I could wrong...

Pads for the older DS 400/ RS 400 sanders were interchangeable.

Then it became more difficult with the next gen DTS 400 / RTS 400, but still doable if you really want, though there are  few hoops to jump through.

Looking at Ekat, nothing has changed for the newest REQ models, so still doable, but not easy.

I'd advice against it, even with my old DS400 it became a problem after a while because the aluminium base that accepts the screws that hold the pad is too soft and the screw holes stripped out. I had to tap them up from M4 to M5.

All that time and trouble, I just bought both DTS and RTS.

But now we're talking about it; you can also turn it into an ETS 125 with changing some more parts, right?

Offline Alex

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Re: Full sanding setup..I need an adult.
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2018, 07:09 PM »
All that time and trouble, I just bought both DTS and RTS.

I ended up doing that too.

But now we're talking about it; you can also turn it into an ETS 125 with changing some more parts, right?

Can be done, in theory. Both sanders are based on the same frame, only the bottom parts are different. Nevertheless, it is a major rebuild, it makes no sense to do that.