Author Topic: Hand Sanding?  (Read 3938 times)

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Offline bassman00

  • Posts: 96
  • Danbury, CT
Hand Sanding?
« on: February 27, 2007, 11:27 AM »
As a new owner of a R0150 I'm seeing the benefits that everyone's been talking about.  I can't believe how I can sand for hours and barely see any dust.  I used to use a PC 333 hooked to a shop vac.  Worked great I thought until I tried the RO150/CT combo.

Does anyone feel the need for a final hand sanding just before finishing?  That was my routine with the PC 333.

I definitely can see the slippery slope everyone talks about.  I already ordered up a Domino and I'm looking hard at a TS55/MFT combo and maybe the 1400 router and....  ;D

PaulD

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Offline Dan Uhlir

  • Posts: 138
    • www.danuhlir.com
Re: Hand Sanding?
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2007, 01:29 PM »
in a word...no

Offline Jesse Cloud

  • Posts: 1713
  • Festooling at the end of a dirt road in New Mexico
Re: Hand Sanding?
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2007, 02:49 PM »
I sand to 180 with the Rotex and 150/3, then hand sand with the grain at 180 or 220 for a formal finish.

But the hand sand is just a very light touchup and an opportunity to look very closely at all the surface with an angled light.

Could you still get a good finish without that - you bet!

Offline Lou Miller

  • Posts: 482
  • North Wales, PA
    • Some of my work
Re: Hand Sanding?
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2007, 04:11 PM »
I do basically the exact same thing as Jesse. I lightly hand sand everything before I put any type of finish on.

Offline Jim Becker

  • Posts: 169
  • Think twice...write once...
    • Saws 'N Dust
Re: Hand Sanding?
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2007, 04:49 PM »
The need for some hand sanding doesn't go away when you have excellent power sanders like the Festool units. Final preparation for finishing often demands attention to detail, especially if there are any profiles and if there is any exposed end-grain. But it's cut down considerably... ;)
“Never raise your hands to your children, it leaves your groin unprotected.” - Red Buttons

Offline bassman00

  • Posts: 96
  • Danbury, CT
Re: Hand Sanding?
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2007, 07:35 PM »
Thanks for the replies.  I guess I knew I'd probably still have to finish up by hand in most cases.  The excellent dust collection of the Rotex has spoiled me though.  I can definitely see I will need less hand sanding than with my old PC.  It would be nice to be able to do 100% of the sanding without all the dust though.  I guess 90-95% dust free ain't too bad.

PaulD

Offline John Stevens

  • Posts: 805
  • Ardmore, PA
Re: Hand Sanding?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2007, 11:13 AM »
I'm with Dan.  When I've tried to hand sand after using the Festool sanders, the scratch marks seem to be more visible, not less visible.  It might be that my hand-sanding technique is poor...or perhaps my machine-sanding technique is good.

I move the sander no faster than one inch per second.  That's really slow--half a minute to sand across a 36" long board.  See the article here:

http://www.festoolusa.com/Web_files/swirl_marks_tips.pdf

The other thing is that I change paper very often, sometimes after only five minutes' use (depending on the grit and the material).  If the paper on the sander doesn't feel sharp compared to the brand-new piece I keep lying on the toolbox behind me, then I change it.

Edit:  I forgot to mention that I brush or wipe the surface before moving to each finer grit, and in between grit changes I check the paper frequently to make sure it's clean and free from anything that could be scratching the wood more than the paper.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 11:18 AM by John Stevens »
What this world needs is a good retreat.
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Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1833
Re: Hand Sanding?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2007, 01:22 PM »
John,

Those are great observations. We sometimes lose sight of the fact that even Festool paper is a perishable item. Trying to make it last too long can be a real time eating exersize. My guess is that Bob and Per don't fret over sheet life too much either.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline bassman00

  • Posts: 96
  • Danbury, CT
Re: Hand Sanding?
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2007, 02:20 PM »
John,

Thanks for the reference.  Missed it on their site.

I'll try slowing down and see how things turn out.  Anotherthing that's impressed the heck out of me is after a lot of sanding, a quick brushing off of the disc and it looks like new.  Not one spec of buildup anywhere.  I can see how it would be easy to assume the paper hasn't dulled when it looks new.

PaulD

Online Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3350
Re: Hand Sanding?
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2007, 04:23 PM »
I only hand sand (broad surfaces) when the wood is very hard, very dark, and the finish is very thin. I do hand sand those places that a machine can't do without making extraneous marks.

One reason I don't hand sand anymore is that I've found the wood surface is actually cleaner after final machine sanding than after hand sanding and vacuuming. To enhance that I do a final/final pass with a worn abrasive at low speed and higher suction. The vibration seems to help the suction get the dust out of the pores much better than suction alone. Also, there seems to be less static build up on the surface from the sander than from the vacuum brush. Festool, can we have an AS brush?

Offline Dan Clark

  • Posts: 545
    • talkFestool
Re: Hand Sanding?
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2007, 06:10 PM »
Michael,

Just curious...  What sander(s) do you use for final sanding?

Dan.

Online Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3350
Re: Hand Sanding?
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2007, 09:10 PM »
Michael,

Just curious...  What sander(s) do you use for final sanding?

Dan.

ES 125 and a 6" Bosch 3727DEVS (2mm orbit)

Offline Dan Clark

  • Posts: 545
    • talkFestool
Re: Hand Sanding?
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2007, 12:44 AM »
Michael,

Thanks.  I'm thinking of getting an LS130 and/or maybe a Deltex as a second/third Festool sander.   I have a BIG deck project coming up where I need to resand three large Cedar decks.   They have lots of nooks and crannies.

Regards,

Dan.

Online Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3350
Re: Hand Sanding?
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2007, 07:22 AM »
Michael,

Thanks.  I'm thinking of getting an LS130 and/or maybe a Deltex as a second/third Festool sander.   I have a BIG deck project coming up where I need to resand three large Cedar decks.   They have lots of nooks and crannies.

Regards,

Dan.

I should have added that I also use an LS 130, primarily for long inside corners.

Offline bassman00

  • Posts: 96
  • Danbury, CT
Re: Hand Sanding?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2007, 08:33 AM »
Is there a big difference with the final result between the RO150 and ES150/5 which have the 5mm orbit and the ES150/3 and ES125 which have smaller orbits?  Assuming the final sanding is using 180 or higher grits?

I can see the benefit of the smaller and lighter ES sanders for vertical or overhead sanding.  I probably will grab an ES150/3 in the future for those reasons but if it produces a markedly better finish, I might bump that up as I have a bunch of furniture projects coming up.

PaulD