Author Topic: HK85 as table saw  (Read 2670 times)

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Offline smartins

  • Posts: 27
HK85 as table saw
« on: January 27, 2018, 06:53 AM »
I'm now thinking about what to put in mft 3 vl table... First choice would be my existing TS55. But I cut quite often ~30+mm laminated plywood and it is quite hard for this saw. Also, angle cuts means less depth. Logical choice would be TS75. But I don't have it and have to buy it anyway. But if I have to buy new saw, I had a look around for similar options with, maybe, even more cut depth.
 So, AP85 comes to my sight with basis 2a. But this is old saw, no spare parts. Also, it's carpenter saw, base construction does not look quite stiff for me (with some experience from other vendor similar construction saws, maybe I'm wrong about this particular AP85).
 Now Festool have HK85, which is made like TS saws with cast aluminum base and must be as stiff as precise as TS series saws. BUT, it is not meant to be used in CMS modules. Still, I see that at both base ends HK85 have very similar tabs like TS saws which are attached with these tabs to CMS module. It means, HK85 can be attached to CMS module like TS saw, just plates for HK85 should be fabricated.
 As HK85 sits on FS Festool rails as AP85, HK85 will fit to CMS saw module base plates as well. The only problem is riving knife, this, seems, must be designed and made from scratch.
 Another reason, I'm looking at HK85 saw, I will have to build all wooden construction parts for my house in nearest feature. This saw can help me do this as well with some accessories.
Otherwise, I'm aiming to use this saw as a table saw only.

What else could be against using HK85 saw as a table saw?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 06:57 AM by smartins »

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Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1421
Re: HK85 as table saw
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2018, 10:57 AM »
I think hk85 will be great in a table unit. 85 mm depth of cut, tilt 60 deg., accepts grove cutting unit, no need for extra depth adjusting mechanism. I bet the standard CMS plate can be easily modified to accept it. Probably just drill couple new holes.
Small riving knife on the tip of the blade guard is replaceable. You can make and attach a longer one. Contrary to what your picture suggests there is no need to remove the blade guard, just retract it.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 11:09 AM by Svar »

Offline smartins

  • Posts: 27
Re: HK85 as table saw
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2018, 11:29 AM »
I really like that this saw have 2300W motor!
60 deg. tilt, how I miss that in my TS55, just now I had project where I really needed 54 degrees!  [eek]

I think, any CMS TS plate will work as TS saws are positioned on plates by rails groove, these dimensions between saws blade and position groove are same for all FS compitable saws.
I will not drill additional holes, I will make new holding plates for existing holes, TS saws bases lengths in direction along blades probably are not too different.
I'm now thinking about riving knife, thanks for information that existing knife is removable from guard. If leaving it attached to guard, knife will not follow blade when adjusted down/up like it is in TS saws. But, let's see, if no other serious troubles are in a way of my idea, I'll order saw, then it will be much easier to decide whether it's easier attach knife to guard or somewhere else in saw's body.

Groove cutting unit means, that saw, most likely, has even much stronger base and bearings, shafts as TS saws, load from groove cutting operation, I think, is much higher than just from blades. So, even better, this saw must be much stronger than TS75.

I think hk85 will be great in a table unit. 85 mm depth of cut, tilt 60 deg., accepts grove cutting unit, no need for extra depth adjusting mechanism. I bet the standard CMS plate can be easily modified to accept it. Probably just drill couple new holes.
Small riving knife on the tip of the blade guard is replaceable. You can make and attach a longer one. Contrary to what your picture suggests there is no need to remove the blade guard, just retract it.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1421
Re: HK85 as table saw
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2018, 12:05 PM »
If leaving it attached to guard, knife will not follow blade when adjusted down/up like it is in TS saws.
True, but it probably does not matter. You can make it long enough to safely cover the blade regardless of the depth.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: HK85 as table saw
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2018, 04:58 PM »
Please don't post any actual ideas on how to modify / attach the HK saws to a plate for mounting in the CMS.

Thanks,

   Seth

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1421
Re: HK85 as table saw
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2018, 03:27 PM »
@smartins
Any progress with this?
If there are "actual ideas" you can PM me instead of posting (see moderator warning above).

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 364
Re: HK85 as table saw
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2018, 03:02 PM »
Please don't post any actual ideas on how to modify / attach the HK saws to a plate for mounting in the CMS.

Thanks,

   Seth

But why doesn't Festool just make the plate? There was a unit to attach the AP85 into CMS; the CMS-AP/AT
I don't see why the HK85 should be excluded

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 151
Re: HK85 as table saw
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2018, 07:39 PM »
Please don't post any actual ideas on how to modify / attach the HK saws to a plate for mounting in the CMS.

Thanks,

   Seth

But why doesn't Festool just make the plate? There was a unit to attach the AP85 into CMS; the CMS-AP/AT
I don't see why the HK85 should be excluded


...Lawyers?

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 364
Re: HK85 as table saw
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2018, 11:50 PM »
Please don't post any actual ideas on how to modify / attach the HK saws to a plate for mounting in the CMS.

Thanks,

   Seth

But why doesn't Festool just make the plate? There was a unit to attach the AP85 into CMS; the CMS-AP/AT
I don't see why the HK85 should be excluded


...Lawyers?

So what changed in law between AP85 and HK85?

Offline smartins

  • Posts: 27
Re: HK85 as table saw
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2018, 10:54 AM »
Thanks for interest. At the moment I'm still aquiring needed parts as I want to do this maximally using ready made parts...
Some has mailed me in PM- already done this quicker than I...

@smartins
Any progress with this?
If there are "actual ideas" you can PM me instead of posting (see moderator warning above).

Offline smartins

  • Posts: 27
Re: HK85 as table saw
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2018, 11:05 AM »
Well, I think, not only laws are here, also marketing-business issues. If users will start to use HK85 in a table, there's no point to buy TS75... At some point in future, I think, Festool may end TS75 and put HK85 as a table saw as well.
Why I think like that- older AP85 didn't have stiff, cast base. It was lower grade saw. But HK85 is, basically, with same stiffness as TS series saws.

But unless this is not done oficially, I can understood Festool's will and don't blame them for anything. Their product, their right to ask not to use (and show on public) their product in a way it's not designed/sertified.

So what changed in law between AP85 and HK85?
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 11:07 AM by smartins »

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 605
Re: HK85 as table saw
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2018, 05:34 PM »
It is an all around terrible idea. Just buy a nice portable or stationary table saw. It will be infinitely better to setup and use and safer. Sometimes you have to get out of the "system" to realize that not everything that can work with the "system" without significant compromises.

I'll add that the CMS is at best a marginal solution. It works for some things, but is nowhere near the best solution. I can see it being useful in some cases like where space is an issue, but even then a portable tablesaw with a 24" capacity at $400 costs less and will outperform.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 05:42 PM by JimH2 »

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1421
Re: HK85 as table saw
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2018, 12:45 AM »
It is an all around terrible idea. Just buy a nice portable or stationary table saw. It will be infinitely better to setup and use and safer.
"Infinitely better" - that's a stretch to say the least. CMS-TS setup is on par with an average portable table saw. Some people prefer minimalist approach to their hobby for various reasons.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 03:04 PM by Svar »

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 364
Re: HK85 as table saw
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2018, 02:03 AM »
Well, I think, not only laws are here, also marketing-business issues. If users will start to use HK85 in a table, there's no point to buy TS75... At some point in future, I think, Festool may end TS75 and put HK85 as a table saw as well.
Why I think like that- older AP85 didn't have stiff, cast base. It was lower grade saw. But HK85 is, basically, with same stiffness as TS series saws.

But unless this is not done oficially, I can understood Festool's will and don't blame them for anything. Their product, their right to ask not to use (and show on public) their product in a way it's not designed/sertified.

So what changed in law between AP85 and HK85?

No, different tools. Also see; HK55 exists next to the TS55 in peace. No reason why that wouldn't be with the TS75 and HK85.