Author Topic: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry  (Read 1565 times)

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Offline dlu@canishe.com

  • Posts: 93
Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« on: November 04, 2018, 04:59 PM »
On my holy rail the edge of the first hole on one side is 9mm from the end of the rail, on the other it is 10mm. I realize that when the system is being used the way it is supposed to be used this shouldn't make any difference. However...

Today I was adding some shelf pin holes to an existing cabinet and after striking out with my Woodhaven jig, decided that the best plan was to use the LR-32 rail and drilling fixture on the OF1010. So I cut a spacer block to make it easy to set up the rail and went to work. When I switched to the other side of the cabinet I noticed that the holes weren't going to line up with the rail and I needed to make a new spacer block - no problem, just annoying.

It seems like the obvious solution is either:

  • a) Figure I'll never need to do this again and forget about it, or
  • b) Trim the long end of the rail to match the short end.

I'm leaning towards B, it seems like it will work and would avoid hassles in the future – or am I missing something?

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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2018, 05:17 PM »
You are correct that in the Festool LR-32 system nothing references off the end of the rails.  If you want the ability to use the end of the rails for a reference point in the future, then trimming would be the route I personally would take.

Peter

Offline dlu@canishe.com

  • Posts: 93
Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2018, 06:43 PM »
You are correct that in the Festool LR-32 system nothing references off the end of the rails.  If you want the ability to use the end of the rails for a reference point in the future, then trimming would be the route I personally would take.

Peter

Thanks, appreciate the sanity check - besides my rail being off, I discovered that the system holes in the cabinet were off by 2.5mm between the sides. Not sure how that made it past quality control...

Online Corwin

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Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2018, 07:35 PM »
How will you accurately trim the longer end to match?
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline rmhinden

  • Posts: 70
Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2018, 11:15 PM »
I was thinking about getting into the LR-32 system.  I have a FS 1400 55" Guide Rail, it seems excessive to have to buy a new guide rail with holes.

Is there any way to have holes drilled into my existing rail?  I assume the two are the same, except one has holes in it.

Thanks.
Bob

Offline gnlman

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Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2018, 11:20 PM »
My rail is not the same at both ends either....using the stop 16 up and out, you are only using the last hole for the thumb screw that holds the end stop in place...the end stop registers off the 2nd and 3rd holes which are accurate to the 32 mm system which I'm sure you already know. My lovely bride wanted another shelf in the cabinet above our fridge to store her Grandmothers silverware chest...rail would not fit in the cabinet....unless I cut it down to 20 inches......Kreg jig to the rescue... I put 2 5mm self pins in the existing holes which aligned the jig and drilled the rest of the shelf holes front and back...I think they are about 20 bucks...I was a hero, and got red meat and potatoes for dinner that night instead of the dirt and leaves she normally tries feeding me...and no rail was hurt by a saw in all of this...lol
Greg

Offline Bohdan

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Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2018, 11:30 PM »
I was thinking about getting into the LR-32 system.  I have a FS 1400 55" Guide Rail, it seems excessive to have to buy a new guide rail with holes.

Is there any way to have holes drilled into my existing rail?  I assume the two are the same, except one has holes in it.

Thanks.

See converting a standard rail into a holey rail.

You will need to borrow an existing holey rail.

Offline dlu@canishe.com

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Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2018, 02:08 AM »
How will you accurately trim the longer end to match?

Miter saw, dial caliper, and courage  [smile]

The rail will cut easily – I've done it before to salvage a long rail that UPS had its way with. So as long as I can get the rail squared up in the miter saw and accurately set up to cut 1mm I should be good.

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2018, 09:55 AM »
Why bother trimming the rails and going through all the angst?  The stop blocks give you the correct spacing when they're used, either to give the necessary increment from the end of the material, or to provide correct spacing when joining two rails to make a longer rail. 

When I first bought into the Festool system, I bought two 1400mm standard rails which I still have.  Then when I decided to switch from another system to the LR 32 system, I acquired two 1400mm holey rails and subsequently found a (now discontinued) 1080mm holey rail for sale by a FOG member.  In retrospective, I'd rather have bought the two holey rails up front and called it done.  Last time I checked, the holey rails were that same price as the standard rails, so why not just get the holey rails and call it a day?  Also look at the time you'd need to invest in converting the rails and compare your "wage investment" against the cost of buying new holey rails.  Also be aware that the holes in the holey rails are really ovals, and so far, I've never managed to find any oval drill bits.   [smile]
- Willy -

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Offline jobsworth

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Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2018, 10:05 AM »
Sparky, other than buying a 1080 holy rail, I had the same experiance as you and agree. just get the holy rails when you buy yer TS 55

Offline dlu@canishe.com

  • Posts: 93
Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2018, 05:20 PM »
Why bother trimming the rails and going through all the angst?  The stop blocks give you the correct spacing when they're used, either to give the necessary increment from the end of the material, or to provide correct spacing when joining two rails to make a longer rail.

Unfortunately the stop blocks don't work when you're reworking a cabinet in place as they prevent you from getting the rail flat on the material you're putting the holes into (unless you can remove parts of the cabinet or put holes in it) and trimming is really not that big a deal.

Offline travisj

  • Posts: 203
Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2018, 01:05 AM »
I would recommend using your LR32 and make a template to fit your workpiece.

I was working on a new outfeed table/workbench over the weekend.  I was kind of winging it as I went in reference to dimensions.  After my dry fit, I measured for drawer slides.  My dimensions did not coincide with 32mm system sizes and I was not satisfied with the hole placement options with the LR32 standoffs.  I wanted my bottom holes to give my drawer slides 1mm of clearance from the “floor” of the cabinet.  My solution was to cut a piece of 19mm ply the interior size of my carcass sides.  I then used the LR32 and OF1010 to punch the holes in the necessary arrangement.  That created the template I used with the Festool 5mm stubby drill bit.  The length of the bit combined with the thickness of the template worked out beautifully.


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Offline skids

  • Posts: 947
Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2018, 08:14 AM »
Question on the Holy rail..Are there other use(s) for the holes other than just shelf pins?
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Offline DynaGlide

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Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2018, 08:33 AM »
Question on the Holy rail..Are there other use(s) for the holes other than just shelf pins?

Sure. Drawer slides, hinge cups, making your own MFT tops with exact 20mm holes 96mm on center.

I also bought my holey rails with my TS55 when I got into Festool not knowing whether I'd want/need the LR32 which seemed extravagant at the time and not really understanding its' utility. Now I'm so far down the rabbit hole it's dark and cold and I'm scared.

Offline skids

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Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2018, 09:25 AM »
LOL..very well said, I recently had this conversation with my wife on whether to charge ahead or just sell all I had..$3k later, and MFT 3, CT 26, work center, multiple clamps, a Domino, and Domino set and I in that same dark scary place.

I have the need to drill shelf pin holes, and I need another rail, but not sure I want to commit to the LR32 just set. I want to get proficient at it with something cheaper first, just not sure there is anything thats any good. Maybe Kregs system? Or the Woodpeckers T Square? Not sure what else does the 32mm spacing that isn't a complete PIA to set up. It's at least good to know the other things folks use the Holy rail for.   
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Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 246
Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2018, 09:45 AM »
LOL..very well said, I recently had this conversation with my wife on whether to charge ahead or just sell all I had..$3k later, and MFT 3, CT 26, work center, multiple clamps, a Domino, and Domino set and I in that same dark scary place.

I have the need to drill shelf pin holes, and I need another rail, but not sure I want to commit to the LR32 just set. I want to get proficient at it with something cheaper first, just not sure there is anything thats any good. Maybe Kregs system? Or the Woodpeckers T Square? Not sure what else does the 32mm spacing that isn't a complete PIA to set up. It's at least good to know the other things folks use the Holy rail for.

For now you're probably better off with the Kreg jig for shelf pins. It looks like it works well for one off situations. The LR32 shines when you need those holes at precise locations, i.e. inset at exactly 37mm, or 224mm. If you're just throwing some adjustable shelving in it is overkill (although nice to use).

Offline skids

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Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2018, 09:49 AM »
Yes that is exactly what i was going to do organize my systainers into the Festool AZ shelving which I believe is based off the 32mm set up. So basically I am just building boxes with 32mm holes in them, never drilled shelf pins before be good to hone some skills with as little financial commitment as possible. Woodpeckers makes a jig too, just found it. Kreg is cheaper though, but both are BY fAR cheaper than the Festool set up.  [smile]
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Offline Cheese

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Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2018, 10:18 AM »
Woodpeckers makes a jig too, just found it. Kreg is cheaper though, but both are BY fAR cheaper than the Festool set up.  [smile]

I've used the Woodpeckers jig for shelf pin holes. It offers 1/4" or 5mm versatility. It works well and is simple to use. I also used the Woodpeckers Drill Guide along with the template. The 5mm version is #DG53214.

https://www.woodpeck.com/drilling/shelf-pin-template/combo-shelf-pin-template.html

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 246
Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2018, 10:20 AM »
Yes that is exactly what i was going to do organize my systainers into the Festool AZ shelving which I believe is based off the 32mm set up. So basically I am just building boxes with 32mm holes in them, never drilled shelf pins before be good to hone some skills with as little financial commitment as possible. Woodpeckers makes a jig too, just found it. Kreg is cheaper though, but both are BY fAR cheaper than the Festool set up.  [smile]

That's what I used mine for recently. Check this out, he didn't use any jigs for this . And he has every Festool from the looks of it.

Offline skids

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Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2018, 10:49 AM »
I wanted to use my 1010 to drill out the holes, would be a new use for it and it drills cleaner holes (not that is matters in this application). But quickly realizing it's a PIA to set up a 1010 with a guide bushing.
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Offline Sparktrician

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Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2018, 11:15 AM »
Now I'm so far down the rabbit hole it's dark and cold and I'm scared.

Don't forget to take your woobie...   [poke] [poke] [poke]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2018, 11:20 AM »
It's a great system, as @DynaGlide mentioned, for precise hole spacing for drawer glides.  My former system was just fine for front and rear shelf pin holes, but completely inadequate for the precision needed for drawer glides, and for shelf pin holes for half-shelves (mid-carcase). 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline dlu@canishe.com

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Re: Holy Rail (FS1400-2/LR-32) Symmetry
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2018, 11:58 AM »
The Festool system (really any reasonably well established system) demands that you rethink how you work. Otherwise it is just an expensive way to do what you've always done. For me, it also means having to forego the pleasures of jig building for the pleasures of woodworking (and getting done sooner). When I do that is when I start realizing the value that comes from the "system" and from using the components enough that I can "think in the system." That was the breakthrough for me, making a point of studying the "masters" and trying to make "the system" my go-to approach so that I started seeing new ideas for how to work with it.