jbc
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Location: eldorado, WI. Member Since: May 2012
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« on: May 05, 2012, 08:50 AM » |
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Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.
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Kev
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Location: Australia Member Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 2640
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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2012, 09:46 AM » |
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I have te KAPEX and I really like it.
I've only watched the review of the Bosch. I'd say it's interesting and they've introduced several good features. Just to look at it, I'd question whether it is intended for high precision (not a judgement ... just a curiosity).
It'll be interesting to hear the comments of anyone that's had the opprportunity to get "hands on" with it.
Surprisingly they're almost giving these away here ... $AU1,049 with a stand and 3 extra blades (compared to $1,850 for the bare KAPEX).
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barnowl
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Location: Massachusetts Member Since: Feb 2008
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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2012, 10:04 AM » |
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best wishes,
Steve
TS-55, assorted rails, Domino, Kapex, OF1400, ETS 125 EQ, RO 125 FEQ, RO 90, PSB 300 EQ, CT-22, CT-26, MFT-3
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Shane Holland
Festool USA Employee FOG Administrator
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Location: USA Member Since: Jan 2007
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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2012, 10:48 AM » |
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Welcome to the forum! Just a reminder that you can get the Kapex and have a full 30 days to put it through its paces. If you don't think it meets your expectations, just return it for a no hassles refund. Obviously I'm partial, but if you read the reviews on some of the major online retailers you'll see people who bought the Bosch returned it and got the Kapex. If you have the opportunity, use them both and I have little doubt that the Kapex will be your choice. And, for the record, I've used the Bosch. If I can answer any questions for you or be of assistance, please feel free to contact me - sho@festoolusa.com. Thank you, Shane Holland Festool USA
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WarnerConstCo.
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Location: Auburn, In usa Member Since: Apr 2008
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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2012, 11:33 AM » |
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If you need a boat anchor, get the bosch.
I would buy another Kapex with out thinking twice about it.
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Ken Nagrod
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Location: New Jersey Member Since: Jul 2010
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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2012, 12:37 PM » |
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I've used both saws and while I like the glide mechanism, it's still a Bosch saw similar to previous models in every other aspect. If you like Bosch saws and don't mind the size and weight, it is cheaper than the Kapex. I would choose the Kapex for myself, between those two models due to cut quality, ease of use, lighter transport weight, compactness and dust reduction when used with the CT. I still think for the kind of money being charged for the Kapex, it should come with a work piece light.
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Don T
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Location: Phoenix, AZ Member Since: Jan 2008
Posts: 611
Phoenix, Az
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2012, 01:02 PM » |
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I have the Kapex and absolutely love it. All the actions are smooth and the cut is perfect.
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RO150, C12, DF 500 Q, CT33, TS75, MFT3, Kapex 120, MFT3/Kapex, MFK 700, RO 90, ETS150/3, CT22, Centrotec Installers Kit
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davee
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Location: Central Illinois Member Since: Jan 2010
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2012, 03:24 PM » |
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I have and love the Kapex, but seeing this is the Festool Owners Group....
I wonder what the BOG has to say? Is there a BOG?
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sean_hogan
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Location: glasgow/scotland Member Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 146
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2012, 05:06 PM » |
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I have kapex and recently played with the glide at a show, I love my kapex it's amazing but the glide is smoother too pull back and forward, not sure if that's a good or bad thing but on another note it's HUGE and the dust shroud is half the size of the kapex and is paper thin and the stand with the wheels for it are ridiculous need a separate van just for it lol  . Get a kapex is my opinion
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wrote using my fingers
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SRSemenza
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jun 2007
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Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2012, 09:27 PM » |
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Hi jbc, Welcome to the FOG!  Here is another short thread on the topic. BTW, I have a Kapex and it is reeeaaally sweet. Don't know how it compares in actual use to the Bosch. Seth
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Seth R. Semenza S. R. Semenza Woodworking
Festool Service 800-554-8741
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Holzhacker
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Location: Chicago, IL Member Since: Mar 2009
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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2012, 10:46 PM » |
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I have an older Bosch,5412 I think, and recently purchased the Kapex. I went and checked out the new Bosch and wasn't sufficiently impressed. The reason I went for a new chop saw is because my older Bosch weighs a ton. I'm just too tired of lugging that monster around. As someone else mentioned the new Bosch is very similar to the older models. I honestly looked at it and played with it and didn't find any great improvement in it. Sure the glide is better, it looks newer and different, etc. but overall the components, feel, etc were very similar to my existing Bosch. And yes the new one weighed a ton just like the old one. The price of the Kapex is a bit of a disgrace. You just have to close your eyes and forget about it. One of the great features of the Kapex is its simplicity and lack of add on fu fu. You look at other brand chop saws and there's all kinds of stuff going on. The Kapex is simple and boring looking but it gets the job done better. DC is great and the lack of weight is the real winner. Festool does need to make some improvements though in order to stay competitive over time. If this will be a shop saw, buy the Bosch and use the extra money for whatever else. If this will be a mobile saw buy the Kapex and pucker up.
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"The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"
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tallgrass
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Oct 2007
Posts: 468
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« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2012, 11:07 PM » |
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I had the 2 kapexes and returned them for the glide. I was one of the guys who had problems with the initial release with manufacturing problems. Kapex is a great saw, the bosch is a great saw. I would say if you want a lite saw buy the kapex if you want a stationary saw by the Bosch. I think they are different enough that they don't really compare well. One is much larger the other one much lighter. I do not move my saw around so the liteness of the kapex is of no value to me. I think if you know what you really need the choice is pretty straightforward, they're both good saws and both of them have their pluses and their minuses. I was going to do a write up of the Bosch but no one seemed to really want to have it so I didn't. Being an ME I really could not resist the glide. I did find the the deflection of the arm in the glide to be less than the kapex over the the full translation distance. However with the correct technique I think it does not really matter. Just my 2 quickly devaluing cents.
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« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 02:55 AM by tallgrass »
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ScotF
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Location: Southern Orange County, CA, USA Member Since: Jul 2009
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« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2012, 01:03 AM » |
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I would try it a Kapex out on the 30 day trial and see how it works for you -- nothing to lose other than time if you decide it is not for you. If you do not like it, return it and go with the Bosch.
Scot
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Knottys
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Location: Toronto Member Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 34
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« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2012, 10:31 AM » |
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I need to agree with tallgrass, got the bosch and really enjoy it. Comming from no dust collection shop the bosch is sufficient however most tools being festool now its does fall short in that aspect. The size does not bother me one bit as it stays put but it nice to cross cut 15"and the glide is quite slick. Bit the real reason i bought it was the deal $800-20% off at home depot and free bosch radio that i sold for 180.00 so for $480.00 tax in the bosch was a no brainer
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tallgrass
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Oct 2007
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« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2012, 02:38 AM » |
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I have a hood on mine, with vac. Works great.
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JLB builders LLC
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Location: Annapolis, Md. USA Member Since: Jun 2011
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« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2012, 07:37 AM » |
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I have both. I use the Kapex for trim/crown and tend to grab it more often because it is much lighter. Use it with the Ultimate mitre stand that I built from Ron Paulks video.
The Bosch gets used for outdoor vinyl rails/columns 2x material and some tall trim. Mine is on the rise assist bosch stand and even with wheels I really don't like to take it on jobs but it has its place.
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moorewarner
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Location: USA Member Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 9
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« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2012, 04:33 PM » |
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I just wanted to pipe up and say a thing.
I am surprised when I hear tradesmen moaning about the price of tools, and Festool stuff gets moaned about louder than any other. I am surprised doubly so to hear moaning about price here.
I currently run a DeWault 12" single bevel miter saw, and have been for about... crap like 15 years now. It has been a good little performer, and it has had all of it's limitations, heavy, dusty, stiff, etc. It will be replaced with a Kapex, soon.
The price difference between a Kapex and my second choice, a Makita slider, is about $600. I believe that Makita is a good saw, I also believe the Kapex is better. When I imagine using both for the next 10 years and try to put a value on the additional ease and function of a Kapex, for 10 years; and divide out the price difference over 10 years, 60 a year, honestly seems like a bargain.
A company like Festool that is seriously pushing the envelope in tool design, and employing folks for a living wage in their home country vs. exploiting cheap labor has real additional value to me as well beyond the value a better tool will bring over it's lifetime.
We all want good manufacturing jobs until it comes time to pony up and pay the extra cost associated with providing them. We all want kick tools until they cost more than the competition.
I want tools crafted by artists for artists, and when I find them I call that a bargain.
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"If you don't have time to do it right, when are you going to have time to do it over?" ~ Wise Old Timer
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Festoolfootstool
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Location: uk Member Since: Mar 2010
Posts: 1556
The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
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« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2012, 04:59 PM » |
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I have the Bosch glider I bought it just a couple of months ago It has all sorts of issues. the first one was returned to the retailer and the second has exactly the same faults as the first,
I have had someone from Bosch look at the saw and they did not have an answer for some of the issues although it does now cut vertically and squarely
it is still not right and needs to be replaced, so I cannot recommend the Bosch
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If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......
Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?
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Dovetail65
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Feb 2008
Posts: 3864
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« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2012, 05:26 PM » |
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Well although I had a Kapex and got rid of it, between those two saws I would say the kapex for sure.
A quick Google will show all the shortcomings of that particular Bosch saw.
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The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.
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jmarkflesher
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Location: flemington,nj usa Member Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 101
Scoot
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« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2012, 07:12 PM » |
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I have the Bosch glider I bought it just a couple of months ago It has all sorts of issues. the first one was returned to the retailer and the second has exactly the same faults as the first,
I have had someone from Bosch look at the saw and they did not have an answer for some of the issues although it does now cut vertically and squarely
it is still not right and needs to be replaced, so I cannot recommend the Bosch
I'm glad to hear that the Kapex ( fence not flat, cuts not 90 degree) isn't the only brand with problems. MARK
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DEC 21st, 2012 TIC TIC TIC WAS A DUD
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Jaybolishes
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Location: vt Member Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 159
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« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2012, 09:39 PM » |
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I've got the Bosch axial. Hate to say it but my dealers kapex has been broken twice during demos! I wanted to try it out on two different occasions and it was broke at different times months apart. That sacred me a bit when was on the fence between the two saws. Ive seen threads saying the kapex has broken from a chunk of wood flying up and breaking a bearing. It should be noted if the kapex breaks you will find no better company than festool to fix your saw free of charge if it ever breaks. My axial has taken three of the hardest falls and tumbles i could ever imagine with the saw surviving unhurt. The falls all made me cringe and it still works and cuts perfectly. The bosch is tough as heck and i can guarantee that now. 15" of travel, and I have used every inch of that and I love it. Its glide system is just davine, I recommend you try it. The bevel mechanism is great too, I've been doing interior trim and the bevel being at the front is a great innovation. Another thing I like is that with the flip of a thumb you can disengage the miter detents while swinging the saw left to right. This feature should be on every saw, cause it is so annoying when the saw wants to slide into the detent when you are trying to make a cut slightly to either side. I've used the saw a ton and couldn't be happier. It is heavy, if you're a wimp you may want another saw, but I move it around no problem, granted I'm 31 years old and no wimp. It also can only take one laser, kapex has two, not a real big deal but that is something I wish it had. Being able to bring the work in from the left and the right with two lasers is something the kapex owns as a plus. Also the dust collection is not great, I'm sure the kapex is much better.
I absolutely love my axial glide and know I made the right decision, but honestly you have to weigh what is most important for you. I took many months deciding which saw to get, and after the abuse my Bosch has taken it was with out a doubt the right pic for me. I had a broken lever on the fence that broke during shipping, a wonderful woman for the Bosch customer service sent me a new lever free of charge immediately no questions asked. I was impressed, and she was great to talk with. I think the festool saw must be treated like a delicate tool. So if you get the kapex, just be careful with it, the Bosch can literally be tossed down stairs, I've seen mine do it thanks to my dopey helper.
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« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 10:34 PM by Jaybolishes »
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RonWen
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Location: One of the Thirteen Original Colonies of the United States of America. Member Since: Feb 2009
Posts: 1546
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« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2012, 10:29 PM » |
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I've got the Bosch axial. Hate to say it but my dealers kapex has been broken twice during demos! I wanted to try it out on two different occasions and it was broke at different times months apart. That sacred me a bit when was on the fence between the two saws. Ive seen threads saying the kapex has broken from a chunk of wood flying up and breaking a bearing. My axial has taken three of the hardest falls and tumbles which all made me cringe and it still works and cuts perfectly. The bosch is tough as heck and i can guarantee that now. 15" of travel, and I have used every inch of that and I love it. Its glide system is just davine, I recommend you try it. The bevel mechanism is great too, I've been doing interior trim and the bevel being upwards at the front is a great innovation. Another thing I like is with the flip of a thumb you can disengage the miter detents while swinging the saw left to right. This feature should be on every saw, cause it is so annoying when the saw wants to slide into the detent when you are trying to make a cut slightly to either side. I've used the saw a ton and couldn't be happier. It is heavy, if you're a wimp you may want another saw, but I move it around no problem, granted I'm 31 years old and no wimp. It also can only take one laser, kapex has two, not a real big deal but that is something I wish it had. Also the dust collection is not great, I'm sure the kapex is much better.
I absolutely love my axial glide and know I made the right decision, but honestly you have to weigh what is most important for you. I took many months deciding which saw to get, and after the abuse my Bosch has taken it was with out a doubt the right pic for me. I had a broken lever on the fence that broke during shipping, a wonderful woman for the Bosch customer service sent me a new lever free of charge immediately no questions asked. I was impressed, and she was great to talk with. I think the festool saw must be treated like a delicate tool. So if you get the kapex, just be careful with it, the Bosch can literally be tossed down stairs, I've seen mine do it thanks to my dopey helper.
Being a 12" saw I assume the Bosch also has greater cut capacities?
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Jaybolishes
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Location: vt Member Since: Apr 2012
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« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2012, 10:44 PM » |
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Oh definitely in the depth of cut the Bosch would cut deeper. But if I were only doing fine work, like trimming and cabinetry sort of stuff, the kapex is the tool for that with all it's own features. I do everything so the Bosch more fit my needs. I see the kapex in my future, hopefully they add some new goodies when I finally get it. I think it's an amazing saw and I wish I had some extra coin to use it permanently in my enclosed trailer to keep the dust down in there.
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« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 10:59 PM by Jaybolishes »
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Giff
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Location: UK Member Since: Mar 2012
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« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2012, 04:50 PM » |
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I have a Bosch Glide and have had problems with kickback at the end of the cut. What problems did you have Festoolfootstool ? I am in the UK as well. Giff
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jmarkflesher
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Location: flemington,nj usa Member Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 101
Scoot
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« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2012, 07:59 PM » |
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jbc I would first buy a dead accurate square, straight edge and 45 degree block. These could cost $300.00 but if taken care of will last forever. Order you're Kapex and right out of the box check the fence for straightness with feeler gauges. Check the table for square to the fence. Next check the saw blade for 90 degrees off the fence. Check the blade for 90 degrees off the table at several positions. Put the head at 45 degree bevel to the table and check with the square and the 45 degree block at several positions. If any of these fail send back before 30 days and order another and go through same procedure. For $1,300.00 you should get a fine tuned saw ready to go. Kapex seems to be best for dust pickup. MARK
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DEC 21st, 2012 TIC TIC TIC WAS A DUD
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tallgrass
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Oct 2007
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« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2012, 04:59 AM » |
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I love my glide. I had the early kapex and had to return it twice. What I would have done if the kapex had not failed I do not know, considering how much I love the glide. Think they are both great.
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Brian J
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Location: Mississauga Ontario, Canada Member Since: Oct 2012
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« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2012, 05:06 PM » |
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I just wanted to pipe up and say a thing.
I am surprised when I hear tradesmen moaning about the price of tools, and Festool stuff gets moaned about louder than any other. I am surprised doubly so to hear moaning about price here.
I currently run a DeWault 12" single bevel miter saw, and have been for about... crap like 15 years now. It has been a good little performer, and it has had all of it's limitations, heavy, dusty, stiff, etc. It will be replaced with a Kapex, soon.
The price difference between a Kapex and my second choice, a Makita slider, is about $600. I believe that Makita is a good saw, I also believe the Kapex is better. When I imagine using both for the next 10 years and try to put a value on the additional ease and function of a Kapex, for 10 years; and divide out the price difference over 10 years, 60 a year, honestly seems like a bargain.
A company like Festool that is seriously pushing the envelope in tool design, and employing folks for a living wage in their home country vs. exploiting cheap labor has real additional value to me as well beyond the value a better tool will bring over it's lifetime.
We all want good manufacturing jobs until it comes time to pony up and pay the extra cost associated with providing them. We all want kick tools until they cost more than the competition.
I want tools crafted by artists for artists, and when I find them I call that a bargain.
Well said!
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skids
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Location: USA Member Since: Oct 2012
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« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2012, 01:04 PM » |
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I
A company like Festool that is seriously pushing the envelope in tool design, and employing folks for a living wage in their home country vs. exploiting cheap labor has real additional value to me as well beyond the value a better tool will bring over it's lifetime.
We all want good manufacturing jobs until it comes time to pony up and pay the extra cost associated with providing them. We all want kick tools until they cost more than the competition.
Coming from a guy who will not pony up $1350, I have to say this is an excellent point. To the OP..You have to ask yourself what you will be using this saw for. The Kapex has NO equal in performance but also pricepoint and the Bosch is a fine saw for what it sets out to do. The precision might not be the same, but I have never had an issue with saw at this price point for finish work.
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The Almighty Kapex 120, RO125, DTS 400, CTMidi, C15 Set, Sys-1 Box (2), Sys-STF D125, Sys-Vari, Compact Cleaning Set, Box-OF-S 8, OF1010, MFT-3, 1900 Rail, TS55r, Centrotec Set (well sort of building it myself).
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ceddy
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Location: Montreal Canada Member Since: Oct 2011
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« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2012, 03:03 PM » |
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A company like Festool that is seriously pushing the envelope in tool design, and employing folks for a living wage in their home country vs. exploiting cheap labor has real additional value to me as well beyond the value a better tool will bring over it's lifetime.
We all want good manufacturing jobs until it comes time to pony up and pay the extra cost associated with providing them. We all want kick tools until they cost more than the competition.
I want tools crafted by artists for artists, and when I find them I call that a bargain.
This doesn't get mentioned enough here. For me, the fact that Festool is made in Germany vs. china is a HUGE factor. Just go visit a german factory and you will come back amazed. That being said, I know bosh is german as well, but are any of their tools made in Germany? (real question)
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TS75 OF1400 MFT/3 CT22 ETS125 ETS150/5 Kapex CXS DominoXL C15 RO90
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Jalvis
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Location: USA Member Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 259
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« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2012, 01:13 PM » |
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I'm a new User for Kapex but use my tools professionally. My Impressions thus far might help you decide. Although I've only used on one job requiring miters of small 1/4" thick molding, 3/4" thick maple(mitering 6"), and 3 1/2" crown.
1) The greatest difference for me has been the Miter and Bevel scales. The numbers and increments are large and visible. This one change has increased my ability and joy of use greatly!
2) Dual Laser. An obvious change but a thankful one!
3) Size. Its a compact and lightweight unit. For me this is a plus since I move from job to job.
Note: I'm not impressed with the dust collection using the standard CT hose(26mm?). Perhaps when I switch to the 36mm things will get better. With the Standard hose the dust collection isn't any better than my previous saw so if you do get a Kapex buy the larger hose at the same time. Also be sure to buy an accessory to allow for crown stops since there isn't a place to clamp to.
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