Author Topic: Kapex and 50mm hose  (Read 6492 times)

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Offline Iwood75

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Kapex and 50mm hose
« on: January 23, 2013, 09:37 PM »
My Kapex and I are still within our 30 day relationship trial period. As I said in an earlier post, I'm so far quite dissatisfied with its dust collection. Here's the back story... I only (barely) convinced my wife that this saw is worth its huge cost because "the fantastic DC would allow me to set it up right INSIDE the house and, therefore, I'll finish all of our baseboard and window/door trim work this winter."

For testing purposes, it's out in my shop hooked up to the CT26 with a 27mm hose. Many of you have posted that the 36mm hose will make a huge difference. (Boy, do I hope so!) Rather than spend $150 for the 36mm hose just for a "test", I'm thinking of jerry-rigging my boom arm's 50mm hose to fit. If 36mm provides better dust collection than 27mm, wouldn't 50mm be even better? Or, could it at least convince me that "approximately 95%" IS possible... and I can keep my promise? And, that investing in a 36mm, or another 50mm hose will be money well spent? Anyone ever try the 50mm on your Kapex? 

Thanks for sharing your DC hose comparisons and your comments.   Joel
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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2013, 09:45 PM »
I might go against the trend here, but I am being honest.  I posted something similar earlier today on another forum.  In my mind there are two types of debris caused by cutting - chips and dust.  The Kapex rocks IMHO opinion with the way that it collects dust that would become airborne and land on your furniture.  The stuff that lans on the floor can be handled by a dropcloth or other means.

Peter
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Offline hhh

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2013, 09:56 PM »
I've never been able to get 95% or what ever FT maintains...  Now, It's probably the best DC of any SCMS that I've tried, but 95%?  No. 

I currently use about a 40" length of 36mm.  I don't think a 50mm will do much better...
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2013, 10:06 PM »
First to answer the question about the D50 hose to Kapex, you'll need this adapter.  As for the dust collection, 95% is as good as it gets but don't expect that with everything you cut.  Fact is things like small moldings the dc is almost 100%, with larger and thicker stock you won't get nearly that, maybe 80%.  As Peter said the airborne dust is just about completely collected, leaving some of the more coarse dust behind.  One thing to keep in mind is that the 20% not collected adds up after a day of cutting so if you want to keep the area clean you can throw a drop down under the saw.  BTW, if you see the 20% adding up and are disappointed just take the hose off the saw see what you get.  I'm sure you'll be impressed after you see the mess after only a few cuts without dc.  Also, you don't have to buy the Festool AS D36 hose, the non-antistatic hose is less.  and there is also other options like a regular shopvac hose and the adapter I linked above.      
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Offline 3PedalMINI

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2013, 10:38 PM »
Got the CT26 for christmas, my Kapex is 2 years old so i was excited to try the DC for the first time. i was actually really disappointed with it and kind of bummed but a few weeks later i ordered the CT-Midi and the tradesmen cleaning kit for the workvan and tried the 36mm hose and there was a huge difference. Granted ive been cutting alot of 2x lumber for a buildout im doing and the chips are larger. I tried some MDF baseboard and i would say it was 99% DC Pine trim and it was 97%

I also read on here that its crucial to use the right blade for the job because festool engineers their blades to make the most "fine" dust. Not sure if its true or if i interpreted that right but it makes sense.  

That being said, you dont realize how much it actually collects. If you pull the hose off the sawdust is everywhere!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 10:46 PM by 3PedalMINI »
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Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2013, 10:42 PM »
Quote
if you see the 20% adding up and are disappointed just take the hose off the saw see what you get

I couldn't have said it better, Brice.

If you put a normal chop saw / miter saw in someone's yard or driveway, you'll spend significant time cleaning up. If you don't spend that clean up time, you will leave a month-long, very big negative impression on them. I'm not going to even talk about what happens if you use most saws in their house...

I've set up my Kapex in our living room and cut about a total of a foot-square cross section of various material while working on our kitchen. At first, I think my wife thought I was nuts. I had it set up with a 3.5 m x 36 mm AS hose and it left very little (1/4 - 1/2 cup) debris - and it was all localized. My wife cleans the area daily (or more) and was impressed. Since then, she trusts me to not make a mess.

Another thing I noticed was that the debris was on the floor and not the wall behind the saw. I had the saw backed up against the wall and the stuff (sawdust in this case) wasn't stuck to the wall. My past experience with chop / miter saws was that any vertical surface near the back of the saw had to be swept also.


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Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2013, 04:00 AM »
I might go against the trend here, but I am being honest.  I posted something similar earlier today on another forum.  In my mind there are two types of debris caused by cutting - chips and dust.  The Kapex rocks IMHO opinion with the way that it collects dust that would become airborne and land on your furniture.  The stuff that lans on the floor can be handled by a dropcloth or other means.

Peter

Peter is absolutely right and the same is true with tools like the OF2200 and PSC420. What you see are some larger bits of chippings or debrise that falls to the ground and never gets airborne. When you are using these tools with the sun coming in the window of the workshop there is no sign of dust in the atmosphere as the CT gets the lot. Also, I still breath easy at the end of the day.

Peter

Offline tonylumps

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2013, 05:23 AM »
I use use a Fein Turbo. I Tried using a larger hose from my big Shop-Vac. It was not any better. So went back to using the Fein 27MM hose But one thing that I did notice and never thought about was letting the Vac build up full suction before a cut to get 90% if I am in a finished area. If in a garage or basement I just cut without waiting and collect airborn dust.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 05:26 AM by tonylumps »

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2013, 05:44 AM »
I use use a Fein Turbo. I Tried using a larger hose from my big Shop-Vac. It was not any better. So went back to using the Fein 27MM hose But one thing that I did notice and never thought about was letting the Vac build up full suction before a cut to get 90% if I am in a finished area. If in a garage or basement I just cut without waiting and collect airborn dust.

If your big shop vac is an HVLP machine then it will not be an improvement on the Fein with the 27mm hose. I noticed a great improvement with my Kapex by going from a 3m x 27mm to 1.2m x 36 mm hose (I have the CTL26 hooked up).

Peter

Offline skids

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2013, 07:39 AM »
Can't speak for the 50mm hose, but I can for the 36mm. It improves performance by quite a margin. As Brice mentioned, you do not need the Anti-stat hose, I got the non AS hose for $85 and have an extra length left over for my table saw-it's worked out just fine. I wouldn't think the 50mm is desgined for the Kapex, but you might ask Festool that question.

The other day my friend set up his Hitachi next to my Kapex set up. He set up his saw after using the Kapex for a while and wanting to use his own saw, he's partial to his Hitachi. At the end of the day I looked at the ground in my garage and it was pretty evident the value of dust collection. Like others have said I wouldn't expect 95%, I think the numbers get inflated. I have definitely got more than 80% though. Although as mentioned, it depends on what you are cutting. Also, I have noticed a significant difference when the bag in my midi is fresh as opposed to when it's about 3/4 of the way full. The suction and ultimately how much gets drawn into the vac increases alot. 

I was literally chuckling after an entire day of cutting moldings and 1x material (more cuts on my Kapex) when I looked at the two dust piles. The amount of dust under my Kapex was (like Peter said) nothing more than something you could have shook off a drop cloth outside. The Hitachi pile needed to be swept up with an industrial dust pan-twice.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 07:47 AM by skids »
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Offline greg mann

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2013, 10:12 AM »
When it comes to improving dust collection I have found it makes considerable difference if you use the saw as a traditional chop saw or use it as a slider. When used as a chop saw the dust will bigin its exit from the cut in a horizontal direction and more of it will escape under the dust shroud. When used as a slider with the blade fully dropped in front of the material and then pushed through to the back the dust will exit at a higher angle and into the shroud. This is true of any slider, it is just a function of exit angle and shroud position but it makes good DC on the Kapex even better.

There may be reasons you might not want to make all of your cuts this way, minimizing tearout for example, but it sure helps DC.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Peter Durand

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2013, 10:39 AM »
My Kapex and I are still within our 30 day relationship trial period. As I said in an earlier post, I'm so far quite dissatisfied with its dust collection. Here's the back story... I only (barely) convinced my wife that this saw is worth its huge cost because "the fantastic DC would allow me to set it up right INSIDE the house and, therefore, I'll finish all of our baseboard and window/door trim work this winter."

For testing purposes, it's out in my shop hooked up to the CT26 with a 27mm hose. Many of you have posted that the 36mm hose will make a huge difference. (Boy, do I hope so!) Rather than spend $150 for the 36mm hose just for a "test", I'm thinking of jerry-rigging my boom arm's 50mm hose to fit. If 36mm provides better dust collection than 27mm, wouldn't 50mm be even better? Or, could it at least convince me that "approximately 95%" IS possible... and I can keep my promise? And, that investing in a 36mm, or another 50mm hose will be money well spent? Anyone ever try the 50mm on your Kapex? 

Thanks for sharing your DC hose comparisons and your comments.   Joel


I tried the 50mm hose, connected it to the kapex with rubber type plumbing fittings (the solid fitting restricts the movement when using at various angles) and found it very frustrating. It is too stiff. Disregarded it after one day. Anyone in the Vancouver BC area want to buy a slightly used 50mm hose at a good price??

 Soooo, the next step was a 36mm non antistatic which I cut down to attach the vac which resides directly beneath the saw. Works like a charm and a definite improvement over the 27mm. Festool should ship the saw with the 36mm in my opinion.

Cheers,

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2013, 10:44 AM »
I'd say the advice and descriptions of the Kapex DC in the above posts are quite realistic. Things to keep in mind when considering Kapex DC reports......

Many of us are comparing to other miter saws that don't even come close to the Kapex DC.

Percentages given by users are most likely guesstimates.

Type of cut being made.

The vac already running, and up to speed or not (when triggering , pause for a second to let CT come up to speed).

Speed the cut is made (if I make a sliding cut as fast as the saw will go I get less dust collected than if I slow down a bit).

The size , length , and type of hose.

The connected vac. cfm, etc.

        

Seth
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 10:47 AM by SRSemenza »

Offline tonylumps

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2013, 04:30 PM »
I use use a Fein Turbo. I Tried using a larger hose from my big Shop-Vac. It was not any better. So went back to using the Fein 27MM hose But one thing that I did notice and never thought about was letting the Vac build up full suction before a cut to get 90% if I am in a finished area. If in a garage or basement I just cut without waiting and collect airborn dust.

If your big shop vac is an HVLP machine then it will not be an improvement on the Fein with the 27mm hose. I noticed a great improvement with my Kapex by going from a 3m x 27mm to 1.2m x 36 mm hose (I have the CTL26 hooked up).

Peter
Just using the hose off of theshop vac. Larger hose was no different than the smaller one. Not that I could see

Offline Don T

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2013, 09:21 PM »
When I did the wood flooring in my house I had the Kapex in the room or just outside of the room I was working on and had very little clean after a room full of cuts.  Now that was with the D36 hose.  Before I got the D36 I did some flooring in our second home and the collection was good but not great like with the D36.
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Offline GaryLaroff

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2013, 09:01 PM »
I've had my Kapex installed in the shop for over four years and am pleased with the excellent dust collection using a 36 mm hose.  I follow all of Peter's guidelines, especially waiting for the CT22 to ramp up before pushing the arm down and forward to make the cut.  Also, I made zero-clearance inserts which help in dust collection and more importantly provide for superb cuts.  To save money back in 2008, I bought the Lowe's variant of the hose used by Festool.  I assume it is not an antistatic hose but have never tried to test that.  The ends of the hose are standard Festool connectors.  The hose is quite long and enables me to leave the CT22 with boom arm wherever it is in the shop near the Kapex, unplug the 50mm hose from the CT22 and attach the Kapex hose.  The Kapex is plugged in to the CT22 and the CT22 is plugged in to the 20 amp circuit visible on the back wall.  This has worked quite well although I need to find a better way to support the hose on the wall behind the Kapex.

The first photo is my Kapex after cutting a number of pieces of oak. 

81510-0

The second photo is a close-up of the 36mm hose from Lowe's with a standard Festool 452893 "Non-antistatic rotating connector for D 36 mm suction hose"

81512-1

Gary Laroff

Offline Sal LiVecchi

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2013, 07:59 AM »
I can say now as finally a Kapex owner, that I took a 36 mm hose shorten down to 4ft and now go directly into my midi which is placed directly under the Kapex. This was a method that was recommended to me by another FOG member and I can say it is working just awesome for dust collection. I just finished trimming out 16 door replacements and I had very little dust cleanup when I was done.

Sal
 
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Offline Iwood75

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2013, 10:39 AM »
Thanks everyone for your informative and helpful comments. Sorry for the delay in posting, but I had no internet connection for nearly a week.

Well, I bought the Lowe's 36mm hose for $31 (Thanks Gary!) and cut it down to about 8 feet for now and – as you guys predicted – I am happy with the improvement. The hose ends simply screw on/off and they fit the DC and Kapex perfectly! Wish I could shorten the hose even further but with the boom arm on the vac, I can't get it under – or even close enough to – the saw to do so and still have it comfortably serve my MFT and panel cutting/assembly table. I'll continue to work on that.

Again, thanks for sharing your experiences.  Now, all's well in the shop... except for the frigid temps.   Joel
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Offline Womble

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2017, 08:40 AM »
I might go against the trend here, but I am being honest.  I posted something similar earlier today on another forum.  In my mind there are two types of debris caused by cutting - chips and dust.  The Kapex rocks IMHO opinion with the way that it collects dust that would become airborne and land on your furniture.  The stuff that lans on the floor can be handled by a dropcloth or other means.

Peter

Peter is absolutely right and the same is true with tools like the OF2200 and PSC420. What you see are some larger bits of chippings or debrise that falls to the ground and never gets airborne. When you are using these tools with the sun coming in the window of the workshop there is no sign of dust in the atmosphere as the CT gets the lot. Also, I still breath easy at the end of the day.

Peter

Hi Peter

I know this is an old thread :) but was curious has the 1.2m 36D hose got a standard Festool Part number?  Or did you just purchase some hose by the meter? An one last Question did you use standard or anti-static hose to the Kapex?

Looking to get best dust extraction from my  110v CTL Midi to my spanking new & lovely 110v Kapex KS 60 E Set

Thanks Darren
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 08:32 AM by Womble »

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2017, 09:21 AM »
Hi Darren

I bought a 5 m long anti static Festool hose as part of a large order in the days when discounting was not allowed on tools. What I did manage was to get a huge discount off that hose. I then had to but a couple of ends for the new section of hose - I went to Toolfest for those.

Once upon a time it was possible to buy both anti static and normal hose by the meter but I do not know if that is still possible - I am sure that Toolfest will tell you if it is still possible.

You are lucky to be getting the KS60 - I have seen it demonstrated and it looks excellent. I am hoping to borrow one soon in order to make a video.

Cheers.

Peter


Offline Laminator

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2017, 10:19 AM »
A little ingenuity with duct tape used to extend the rubber "dust shroud" , making it about an inch longer, makes dust collection better.  It sure lacks aesthetics but....

Offline Womble

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2017, 10:50 AM »
Thanks guys

Peter yes you can purchase both standard & anti-static by the meter Nuts & Bolts sell it. Overall the Kapex KS 60 is a lovely tool but there is issues, the trigger is a proper PITFA slightest release of pressure & it cuts off & trenching setup is pretty naff IMO & the angle finder is not made for the saw be carried around site slightest knock & it comes flying off also the table insert is slightly lower than the main bed for the angle gizmo so when cutting small pieces they don't sit flat requiring secondary solution like in your Parf Guide suction attachment video.

I am not above an ugly solution if it does the job needed & duct tape has been the solution on many occasions :)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 08:33 AM by Womble »

Offline Len R

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2017, 07:55 AM »
"I've had my Kapex installed in the shop for over four years and am pleased with the excellent dust collection using a 36 mm hose.  I follow all of Peter's guidelines, especially waiting for the CT22 to ramp up before pushing the arm down and forward to make the cut.  Also, I made zero-clearance inserts which help in dust collection and more importantly provide for superb cuts. "

I can understand how a zero clearance insert would prevent small cut offs from falling into the slot, and maybe prevent some chip out, but how would it improve dust collection?  I recall reading a post by a Festool rep or dealer stating that using a zero clearance insert on a Kapex interferes with the dust collection.  Anyone know?

Thanks.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2017, 02:54 PM »
It is the fence (at the back) zero clearance bit that can hamper dust collection depending on its shape and size. The lower insert will not have any effect.

Peter

Offline Len R

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Re: Kapex and 50mm hose
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2017, 07:59 PM »
Thank you Peter, that makes sense.