Author Topic: Kapex KS 120 vs KS 60  (Read 3524 times)

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Offline ontic

  • Posts: 2
Kapex KS 120 vs KS 60
« on: April 24, 2017, 05:44 AM »
New member and first post,
If this is not in the right section, apologies, moderator please move it.

it is past time for me to upgrade my mitre saw. Currently I've only got a big nasty 12" AEG that is barely good enough for framing and a complete PITA for anything requiring finesse. After a (stupid) incident not long ago which resulted in a bent fence and blade, this saw is on death row, awaiting its last meal.
After eliminating a bunch of other options I am deciding between the KS 120 and the KS 60 E, both on the UG stand with the wings.
I am a bit of a jack-of-all-trades, and do a range of work, but for this tool I need it onsite mostly for framing, flooring, decking and finish (trim, skirting, architraves, etc- Australian vernacular). For home work, owning a big 70's timber house that needed everything renovated, there is also a lot of work for it, kitchen and bathroom fit-out approaching, and always more jobs and uses.

I've used a bunch of festool stuff before, and mostly really appreciate it, and own some festools (rotex 125 etc) and regret buying some tools instead of the festool version (makita track saw etc), and have plans for some more.

I don't want to buy another mitre saw for a long time and can (just) scrape the funds for either purchase right now. I want this to be my do-all saw (yes, a compromise), used for heavier and more precise work. Although I mostly set up outside, dust control is one of the things I like about festool and I usually hook up most of my tools to a vac when possible.

I also live on a hill (cliff) where I am absolutely sick of carrying heavy stuff up and down the steep driveway, and, when working at home I set up saws and workhorses and roller stands and the like outside my garage on the top flat spot of the driveway- so the light weight and portability of the Kapex's and the UG stand are some of the points that sell them to me.

I suspect that given the regular outside use I will put it to, the 120 lasers are likely to be better for me than the 60 shadow line- and this issue is almost a deciding factor for me. I have played with both (though I haven't been able to actually do cuts on a 60 yet- hopefully next week), and so far I much prefer the twin lasers, but I can very much appreciate the simplicity and lack of adjustment needed on the shadow line. Inside a tool shop I found it hard enough to see the edge of blade tooth, but I assume this would get better/easier with use. However, the 60 does feel really really nice as well. I almost prefer the feel of the handle and the buttons and most of the adjustments.

As far as capacity goes, I think I could live with the 60- it doesn't really make a difference in how I would cut most of my framing material (90x45 usually) and when it is not enough there always seems to be other ways to get the job done. I've never done crown moulding and don't expect to any time soon.

I know this is an expectable, and kinda difficult thread to start and answer. The KS 60 is brand new and few will have tried it, let alone put it to any good use right now. Plus they are different capacity saws. I have watched the youtube videos of Dave Stanton and Peter Parfitt, and amongst many other videos even tried to guess my way through the german Mikes Toolshop two videos (I wish there was a way to properly translate what he is saying).

For this thread, while I would appreciate some responses to my individual predicament (or is it privileged choice...?) until I decide what saw to go for, please also feel free to use this thread as a more general discussion about the comparison between these two models and any other issues that this raises- that might actually be more important for me.

As it is right now, I am very slightly leaning towards the 120, primarily for the lasers for outside use, the not falling over bevel adjustment, and for the safety of getting the bigger saw 'just in case'. But I really like the 60, I am tempted to buy a 'sufficient' saw (capacity wise), and money too is a serious factor, with a young baby and not quite enough work right now the 120 package is a real stretch for me.

Either way I need to decide in the next week or two for my next job.

I could make this post longer, but I should probably just start it here, please ask me questions if you feel I have missed any important info, and get discussing...
cheers,




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Offline thylaxene

  • Posts: 26
Re: Kapex KS 120 vs KS 60
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2017, 08:46 AM »
I'm in similar boat to you. Deciding on the 120 or the 60. Like you I want a tool to last a long time and expect to "grow" into it. So after looking at the price of the two as complete kits, they are just too close for me to consider the 60. If it was 1k cheaper I would've pulled the trigger on the 60. But $500!! That is nothing over several years of use. I'd rather wait another month or two and get that final chunk of money and know I will be very happy with the 120!

Yes it is heavy, but on the cart it will be more then manageable.

Cheers.

Offline ontic

  • Posts: 2
Re: Kapex KS 120 vs KS 60
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2017, 07:34 PM »
Thanks for the post thylaxene,
yeah, the price difference for the packages is a bit underwhelming. And I suppose I agree with your rationale. I have been told by one of the dealers that given they ran a special on the 120 last month (in Australia, bugger, missed it), and given that the KS 60 has just come out, it wouldn't be unreasonable at all to expect some sort of special next month on the 60. This was a kind of 'no garrantee wink wink' understanding. He said the 120 special was around $100 off. But even with another $100 difference to packages, if the 60 actually does the same, doesn't really alter the above metric much.

Going the 120 route, I am a little concerned that the 120 might be updated in the not too distant future- with some of the better parts of the 60 one might hope- would be just my luck. Oh well, I can't wait long. Gotta make a decision on what is on offer now. I am going to at least wait until I can do some cuts on the 60, but the 120 is leading by a head.

A couple of questions to try to get some conversation going:

For those that have tried and compared, how do the different 'adjustable angle bevel' systems compare? If I understood mikes toolshop video comparison (highly unlikely!) I think he was praising the 60 system? From a quick play I found the KS 60 a tad annoying and confusing- it sort of wanted to slot into the grove for the blade, but not quite enough, and kept popping out... the 120 seems rather fiddly trying to line up the laser...?
Sprichst du Deutsch anyone?



Laser adjustment: how often would a mobile saw need to be adjusted, and is the user allowed to do this within warranty period themselves?

Any thoughts on the different drive systems, belt, bevel? One salesman I spoke to demonstrated that the KS 60 has a much rougher motor sound/action during start-up than the 120. Both were new machines, thus both would have had brushes needing bedding in- not sure how this will change longer term, but to me the 120 did seem to have a nicer softer start, though as a general rule some seem to favour a belt drive?

Lastly, any thoughts (tea leaf readings) on the future of a 120 update?

Cheers,

Offline flagre

  • Posts: 12
Re: Kapex KS 120 vs KS 60
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2017, 11:38 AM »
Also, see my questions at the end here (regarding actual cut capacity at angles): http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/new-kapex-ks60/90

Could also be of interest to others to have this checked by someone who has bought the saw.


Offline PeterK

  • Posts: 940
Re: Kapex KS 120 vs KS 60
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2017, 07:44 PM »
Is there a list of the model differences somewhere?

Offline ashrow

  • Posts: 1
Re: Kapex KS 120 vs KS 60
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2017, 01:26 PM »
Hi All
I have owned the KS120 for around 2 years now and honestly love it but as i am mobile and have a full van i tended to leave it at home and not carry it all the time. I have only just recently brought the KS60 just to do the flooring jobs i do (around 6 per month).
I would prefer to have the 120 with me all the time but for the smaller jobs carrying such a large machine all the time is a no go.
I personally will use the 60 for all floor level works and the 120 for all others but if it came down to buying one i would by the 120 as it can do more than the 60.
I know the price is so much greater but better to buy something that does more then to waste money on a tool that gets left short.
Good luck with what tool you decide to buy

Offline slimm

  • Posts: 41
Re: Kapex KS 120 vs KS 60
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2017, 09:22 AM »
I purchased the KS60 and returned it the next day, I honstly think the saw is useless, the cuting depth againts the fence is so shallow especially on a mitre therefor you are forced to use the bevel which is terrifically inaccurate.

I swaped is for a KS120 which is phenominal. There is no machine more accurate or easy to set up than a 120

The difference between the two saws is night and day. I feel festool have let themselfs down with the KS60

Offline scalci

  • Posts: 5
Re: Kapex KS 120 vs KS 60
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2017, 01:04 AM »
This is very interesting to read. Our dealer have a special on the 60 ans want to sell this to me. After reading the comments, I think to rather wait till I can buy the 120. I will use it only in my workshop.....


Offline David Stanton

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  • Posts: 129
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    • David Stanton
Re: Kapex KS 120 vs KS 60
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2017, 04:42 AM »
This is a 42mm thick piece of timber. I did not have any 50mm available. You can see that in order to get the depth of cut that I presume will be very close to 50mm you would need to adjust the depth control and also use a sacrificial fence.
Click here for Dave Stanton on Youtube
KAPEX 120, ROTEX 150, ETS 5 150, TS55, 800-1400-2700 TRACKS,  PDC 18-4 TEC, DOMINO XL, CXS, EHL 65, SYSLITE, HKC 55 EB, PSC 420 EB, CTL SYS, SYSROCK

Offline slimm

  • Posts: 41
Re: Kapex KS 120 vs KS 60
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2017, 05:35 PM »
This is a 42mm thick piece of timber. I did not have any 50mm available. You can see that in order to get the depth of cut that I presume will be very close to 50mm you would need to adjust the depth control and also use a sacrificial (Attachment Link) fence.

good decision you wont regret it