Author Topic: locked threads  (Read 2977 times)

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Offline Peter Durand

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locked threads
« on: October 19, 2017, 01:32 PM »
Three threads locked in the last 48 hours.  Is it a coincidence or has the word come down from the owners of FOG?

No malice intended here, just curious. BTW, I agree with the flogging a dead horse idea. The optics of the timing set me to wondering. OK, so I may be one of those conspiracy nuts. :-)

Cheers,

Peter
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 01:37 PM by Peter Durand »

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Offline Alex

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2017, 01:37 PM »
You're seeing things that aren't there.

Offline mikeyr

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2017, 01:47 PM »
I made a comment a couple of weeks ago that I was shocked people here actually believed Festool even knew this place existed, they don't care, they have our money and are looking for the next sale.  I was told by forum admins I am wrong, Festool does know about this place, still don't believe it but ok, maybe I was wrong.  Guess its true since the threads locked were not very Festool friendly, if this is their forum, its their rules and no bashing Festool.
 As long as the rules are clear I am ok with that, now I know how much salt to throw before I read them.
ex-cabinet maker, now I just play with wood

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 420
Re: locked threads
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2017, 01:49 PM »
“These are not the droids you are looking for”

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3590
Re: locked threads
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2017, 01:52 PM »
I think the issue was rather that after some initial airing of legitimate grievances, the threads spun off into tangents not necessarily related to the original topic.  Also, see the forum moderator statements at the end of the threads (http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/what-can-festool-do-to-regain-brand-loyalty/msg526011/#msg526011)

Festool is the owner of the site, so they are aware of it, and at least one of their employees regularly posts replies -- the question of course is to what levels of the company does this awareness rise.  But the decision on thread locking was made by the moderators of the forum, private individuals who put in a lot of time and energy into making the site the valuable resource that it is, and who are not tools of the company.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 01:54 PM by ear3 »
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Offline tjbnwi

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2017, 02:00 PM »
They got lock after the 3rd or 4th trip around the circle jerk.

My only regret is I don't get to them soon enough to post more sarcastic post.

Tom

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2017, 02:08 PM »
I was a bit worried that the locking was done shortly after I had posted on at east two of them.

As a regular FOG user I must say that the frequent bending of informative or useful threads into Festool bashing is non productive, extremely boring and it does put a lot of people off.

I was at a woodworking show a couple of weeks ago and met a number of FOG people. Three people mentioned that they were turning away from the FOG due to the frequent Festool bashing. These chaps were not Festool fan-boys but hard working professionals who only have so much time for extra curricular activity.

I am all for reasonable calling to account but it must be done fairly - if you have a tool problem then go the Dealer/Festool route first. Only after a bad experience with both should a public broadcast (FOG entry) be used. Those that have an axe to grind soon get spotted and they seem to eventually disappear into the sawdust.

The thread titles are often a give away - they presume an issue. An example is " What can Festool do to regain brand loyalty" - that presumes that brand loyalty has been lost, not dented or shaken.

If you do not like Festool and cannot respect the opinions of those of us who like the tools that we have then try another forum.

Peter

« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 04:53 PM by Peter Parfitt »

Offline glass1

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2017, 02:16 PM »
If you cannot respect the opinion  of people who have paid hard earned money for festool tools that have failed or failed to deliver than..... What. 

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3590
Re: locked threads
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2017, 02:19 PM »
 [eek] [big grin]


They got lock after the 3rd or 4th trip around the circle jerk.

My only regret is I don't get to them soon enough to post more sarcastic post.

Tom
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline J373

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2017, 02:29 PM »
I joined a couple of days ago and I am actually shocked about some of the things I've read on here . I've only been using festool gear for around 3 years and 3 months ago I switched over almost everything to FT stuff a massive outlay. If festool do own this site I doubt they would have threads locked and would think more if they did interfere would have the. Deleted. I've been the member of forums that would not allow anything against them at all. So if they do own it fair play for letting these posts stay on the site albeit locked. It is a bit worrying reading some stuff on here and I'm hoping my investment will be safe. The only problem I had was actually with a very nearly new c18 drill , I was away from site and got a phone call from one of the lads saying "I didn't do anything it just stopped working"  I took it back to d and m tools and no questions asked took it back , sent it off and I revived a brand new one around 5 days later.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2017, 02:42 PM »
Festool did not lock the threads.  The volunteer moderators locked them due to fact that they had strayed off topic and were becoming personal.  Each of the threads had been open for weeks.  The last post in each of the threads explained why they were locked.  No orders came down from Festool to lock those threads.

Peter Halle - Moderator

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2017, 02:55 PM »
Damned if we do damned if we don't. So we are choosing the path that we feel will be better for the overall health of the forum.

We could let the forum continue to spiral down  the black hole , the drain, into oblivion, take your pick. But we are trying to get off that road.

No  word  has come down from above. And the assertion that you can't bash Festool on FOG?   Seriously?   Have you ever read anything on this forum?!   

                            RIDICULOUS!

    Those topics had run their course and were no longer providing anything useful. Just a lot of irritation, annoyance, and noise. Those people that actually like the forum, like the help they receive here, find useful information, provide help and information are all disappearing due to an on going onslaught of discussions (I use that word loosely) of the type that were locked.  Please take note that the topics were LOCKED. We could have just as easily deleted them entirely.

    Seth

     

Offline Oldwood

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2017, 03:02 PM »
Peter Said,
"The thread titles are often a give away - they presume an issue. An example is " What can Festool do to regain brand loyalty" - that presumes that brand loyalty has been lost, not dented or shaken.

If you do not like Festool and cannot respect the opinions of those of us who like the tools that we have then try another forum."

I think that it is the view of a lot of users that Festool has lost some  loyalty or brand image or whatever you want to call it and could make some improvements. If you feel that is presumptive of me fair enough although I don't think it is.

At the beginning of the post I said that my post was meant to be constructive. I like Festool fine I do own a lot of their tools. Just because I don't agree with your opinion does not mean I don't respect it. It seems like Peter only wants people here who are fan boys?

I do think that thread had run it's course and have no problem with the moderators decision to close it.

FWIW
Gerry
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline Timtool

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2017, 03:12 PM »
@mikeyr I know first hand that they monitor this forum, and the effect it has on their decisions. A non negligible amount of their tool designs/redesigns have been directly impacted because of reactions on this forum.
It's a huge test group that doesn't put on gloves like a regular selective test group does.
BR10, MFK 700, OS 400, ETS EC 150/3, KA 65-plus,TS55R, CT22E, CTLmini, CTL MIDI, CTM 36 AC HD, Kapex KS120, ETS125, ETS150/5, RO150, RO90, CXS-set, T-15+3 set, DTS400, OF900, OF1010, OF2200 set, Carvex PS420 EBQ set, EHL 65, SSU 200, Centrotec installer set, LR32-sys, FS-800, FS-LR-1400x2, domino 500+domino sys, domino 700 XL, Surfix-sys, Sys-box 1, Syslite, LEV-350, Sys-box,MFTB/1-2-4... MFTC, MFSC

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2017, 04:00 PM »
It seems like Peter only wants people here who are fan boys?

I do think that thread had run it's course and have no problem with the moderators decision to close it.

FWIW
Gerry


     I don't believe that it is true that Peter only wants fan boys ( I hate that term, because it tends to get applied any one that actually likes the tools).  But some of the critics  and naysayers will demand facts about peoples opinions. But when called to back up their own opinion with facts they start slinging.  Lately there have been things that started as rumor and then after a bit have miraculously turned to fact.

     On the second line above please don't restart the loyalty debate here, it was locked for a reason.

Seth

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2017, 04:16 PM »

 It seems like Peter only wants people here who are fan boys?

Gerry

Which came first the "Apple fanboy" attempt at insult, or the "Festool fanboy" attempt at insult.

For me it was those first insults of being an "Apple fanboy". The "Festool fanboy" came about 3 years after.

I'm dual fanboy.......and proud of it.

Tom

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2017, 04:23 PM »

 It seems like Peter only wants people here who are fan boys?

Gerry

Which came first the "Apple fanboy" attempt at insult, or the "Festool fanboy" attempt at insult.

For me it was those first insults of being an "Apple fanboy". The "Festool fanboy" came about 3 years after.

I'm dual fanboy.......and proud of it.

Tom

    Tom, what's your favorite kind of apple?  I don't really like apples much. Not even cider.  [wink]

Seth

Offline Svar

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2017, 04:25 PM »
Lately there have been things that started as rumor and then after a bit have miraculously turned to fact.
Lets not exaggerate, it started as anecdotal evidence and developed into a hypothesis. All in agreement with the scientific method, BTW.

The irony will be if "locked threads" thread ends up being locked.  [big grin] Sorry for contributing towards that.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 04:45 PM by Svar »

Online Peter Halle

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2017, 04:30 PM »
That is a very distinct possibility.  Question was asked.  Answers given.  Rules were followed.  Debating is not going to open them back up. 

Peter

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2017, 04:34 PM »

The irony will be if "locked threads" thread ends up being locked.  [big grin]

Will that reverse time?   [scratch chin]

Or maybe something like Steven Wright ........ "I put instant coffee in the microwave and almost went back in time."

Seth

Offline TylerC

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2017, 04:45 PM »
To affirm what @Peter Halle and @SRSemenza said, we (Festool) didn't ask them to lock any of the topics. Honestly, I'm always more hesitant to lock topics than the other moderators are, because I don't want the appearance that Festool is trying to silence your opinions. That said, when a topic feels like it's run its course or gets too far from the original subject, I respect the mods' decisions to put the conversation to rest.

Online Gregor

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2017, 05:11 PM »
Regarding the topics about issues with certain tools that crept up in recent times (which are the reason for this post): unless Festool either confirms existing issues and their will to fix them (even if there should be a problem, we're talking about a german company so the CEO dosn't have to pick up the short sword to cut his guts out like some in Japan did when **** hit the fan) -or- state that the problems dosn't exist in reality (and accepting that this would backfire expensively should they be proven wrong in the future)... these topics won't go away until the reasons for them get addressed - what will go away (the longer the silence stays that deafening) are forum users, trust in the brand and thus prospective buyers.

So it could be a good idea for the moderators to deliver 'our users get (increasingly) restless over $topic' toward the powers that be. Because as I see it, over the time I'm here... they do.

From my experience moderating a forum:

Splitting off derails decisively and early so the healthy body of a topic can live seems to work well (combined with personal messages toward the ones responsible for the derail, detailing the reasoning why their posts had been put up for recycling - and at times handing temporary, or even eternal in lost cases, holidays to the ones who refuse to get that memo).

What I found is that Broken Window works, so my suggestion is to ask for proof when (yet) unsubstantiated claims pop up, should the user making them fail to deliver simply (but politely) treat him as a troll.

I (and I guess most others) have no problem with someone informing about something being wrong because lookhere - but no interest at all in FUD.

Offline Peter Durand

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2017, 05:25 PM »
To affirm what @Peter Halle and @SRSemenza said, we (Festool) didn't ask them to lock any of the topics. Honestly, I'm always more hesitant to lock topics than the other moderators are, because I don't want the appearance that Festool is trying to silence your opinions. That said, when a topic feels like it's run its course or gets too far from the original subject, I respect the mods' decisions to put the conversation to rest.[/i]



Thank you for your reply.

Cheers,

Peter

Offline magellan

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2017, 05:26 PM »
I believe this forum is a great source of information pro and con but it seems lately it has been leaning towards a negative narrative.   Personally I visit this site often during the day to see what interesting experiences the members have come up with. 

I believe if you have an issue with a product from Festool it can be discussed without such a demeaning note.  If you think of it at some point it is no longer an issue with your tool it becomes ugly and none productive

I believe the moderators on this site do a fair job. I know I wouldn’t want their job.  They put a lot of time and energy into this site and we all benefit from their work.  I have found them to be a fair group.  If they believe it’s time to close a discussion then it might have run its course
I know I would be at a lose without this site.  Maybe we need a specific area to vent that has to accessed individually and not in the general discussion area. (Just kidding). 

 



Offline Oldwood

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2017, 05:33 PM »
OK "fanboy" was a poor choice but I was responding to this.
"If you do not like Festool and cannot respect the opinions of those of us who "like" the tools that we have then try another forum"

That seems to indicate if I don't have the same opinion I should try another forum.  So this forum is only for people who like Festool unconditionally? That clearly is not not the case. I don't think I have shown any disrespect for anyone's opinion?

Gerry

 
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2017, 05:43 PM »
OK "fanboy" was a poor choice but I was responding to this.
"If you do not like Festool and cannot respect the opinions of those of us who "like" the tools that we have then try another forum"

That seems to indicate if I don't have the same opinion I should try another forum.  So this forum is only for people who like Festool unconditionally? That clearly is not not the case. I don't think I have shown any disrespect for anyone's opinion?

Gerry


     I can see how that statement could be a bit off putting to the general reader. I   think , and I hope I am not speaking out of turn for Peter Parfitt,  it is born out out of a bit of frustration with people that seem to show up with an agenda of  only  panning Festool and panning those who like and use Festool.  As opposed to those with a legitimate criticism that is not laced with rancor or terms designed to incite and insult.

    Seth

Online Peter Halle

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2017, 05:45 PM »
@magellan   I can assure you that Seth, myself, Festool USA, Festool, and a whole bunch of members here; some quiet now as Seth mentioned, want this forum to be more of a community that shares ideas, answers questions regarding tools and their usage, shows the result of using those tools, and offer general woodworking advice thru the participation of our members.

That hasn't changed since day one.

The core is intact but needs to b expanded on thru the participation of the members in concert with the original intent of the forum's goals.

Peter

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2017, 07:20 PM »
I can assure you that Seth, myself, Festool USA, Festool, and a whole bunch of members here; some quiet now as Seth mentioned, want this forum to be more of a community that shares ideas, answers questions regarding tools and their usage, shows the result of using those tools, and offer general woodworking advice thru the participation of our members.

Hear, hear!!!  Enough of this incessant whining.  Let's get back to woodworking. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline ChuckM

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2017, 07:20 PM »
Locked or unlocked. It is always a judgment call. All the moderators have done a fantastic job here in the Forum as far as I'm concerned. Please keep up the good work.

We shouldn't read too much into the coincidental locking of the threads. When we have time, we tend to attend to the loose ends at the same time; we do that with our work or in the shop, don't we? I look forward to sharing and benefiting from the wealth of knowledge and experience found among the members.

« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 07:23 PM by ChuckM »

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: locked threads
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2017, 08:29 PM »

 It seems like Peter only wants people here who are fan boys?

Gerry

Which came first the "Apple fanboy" attempt at insult, or the "Festool fanboy" attempt at insult.

For me it was those first insults of being an "Apple fanboy". The "Festool fanboy" came about 3 years after.

I'm dual fanboy.......and proud of it.

Tom

    Tom, what's your favorite kind of apple?  I don't really like apples much. Not even cider.  [wink]

Seth

Granny Smith, they're as sour as me, and the best baking apples in the world.

Tom