Author Topic: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?  (Read 2368 times)

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Offline Jimxavier

  • Posts: 25
MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« on: December 31, 2018, 08:18 PM »
I’m building a cabinet and would like to know the best way to get the sides and top identical.

I have the included fence system with the flag stop  - is it normal for the fence to wiggle a bit?

Repeatability is huge and I must figure out a way to get consistent square cuts.

The gear I have:

MFT 3

TS75

3 Guide Rails

TSO Square

I’m aware of the parallel guide method and I have ordered some - there’s no reason I can’t use them to make Crosscuts as well is there?

I’d like to figure something out with the MFT 3 table, flag stop is a no brainer but I can’t seem to get the fence to hold in place square.

Thank you



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Offline travisj

  • Posts: 261
Re: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2018, 09:32 PM »
I can muscle my fence into wiggling.  Generally speaking, it is pretty sturdy.  My fence is mounted to the protractor head near the rail and the black plastic fence clamp is towards the end of the MFT.  I don’t have any pictures in my phone, but I would recommend finding Greg Paolini’s MFT squaring video on YouTube.  The method he uses to attach the fence is pretty solid.

Do you have a good method for squaring up your MFT?

Parallel guides (Festool or aftermarket) are necessary in my opinion.  Prior to my having parallel guides I used the below process being extra careful to maintain the side I was referencing off of:

Set the flag stops for repeatability (I used 2) - one for the panel width, and one for the panel length

Choose my reference side and square one corner (usually the width first)

Flip the board to keep the same reference side against the fence and use the pre set flag stop to cut the panel to final width.

If the MFT was properly squared, you should have 2 perfectly square corners along one length of the panel.

You can then use one of your width cuts and the properly set up flag stop to trim the last remaining side to length.

Rinse and repeat for the other panel and you should have two identical pieces for your cabinet carcass.


I have the TSO guide rail square and it is awesome, but by using that to try to make identical panels, you are introducing error potential as you will be working off of tape measure and pencil marks whereas the flag stop on the MFT will give you exact repeatability.  If you must use the TSO for this, use a knife for your marks as it is finer and more accurate than a pencil.

I’m sure others will chime in here, but if any of the above is unclear or requires clarification, let me know and I can try to get pictures to explain it better.


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Offline TSO Products

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  • Posts: 653
    • TSO Products
Re: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2018, 11:08 PM »
I’m building a cabinet and would like to know the best way to get the sides and top identical.

I have the included fence system with the flag stop  - is it normal for the fence to wiggle a bit?

Repeatability is huge and I must figure out a way to get consistent square cuts.

The gear I have:

MFT 3

TS75

3 Guide Rails

TSO Square

I’m aware of the parallel guide method and I have ordered some - there’s no reason I can’t use them to make Crosscuts as well is there?

I’d like to figure something out with the MFT 3 table, flag stop is a no brainer but I can’t seem to get the fence to hold in place square.

Thank you

@Jimxavier  - how about some pictures of the set up you are trying to use along with an actual work piece in position? We agree that stops are more accurate annd repeatable than measuring.
If you email me your name so I can find you in our customer record, I'll help you off line ( I don't want this to seem like a blatant TSO commercial  [wink]
- and Happy New Year to ALl!
Hans@tsoproducts.com
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline Jimxavier

  • Posts: 25
Re: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2018, 11:21 PM »
I’m building a cabinet and would like to know the best way to get the sides and top identical.

I have the included fence system with the flag stop  - is it normal for the fence to wiggle a bit?

Repeatability is huge and I must figure out a way to get consistent square cuts.

The gear I have:

MFT 3

TS75

3 Guide Rails

TSO Square

I’m aware of the parallel guide method and I have ordered some - there’s no reason I can’t use them to make Crosscuts as well is there?

I’d like to figure something out with the MFT 3 table, flag stop is a no brainer but I can’t seem to get the fence to hold in place square.

Thank you

@Jimxavier  - how about some pictures of the set up you are trying to use along with an actual work piece in position? We agree that stops are more accurate annd repeatable than measuring.
If you email me your name so I can find you in our customer record, I'll help you off line ( I don't want this to seem like a blatant TSO commercial  [wink]
- and Happy New Year to ALl!
Hans@tsoproducts.com


I will email you! The TSO square is incredibly accurate and fast for 90 degree cuts. Squaring the work price this way is repeatable.   My issue is final cuts to length.

Thanks,

Offline simonh

  • Posts: 42
Re: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2019, 06:17 AM »
If you use the Precision dogs or Seneca parallel guides you can attach one to the rail near the TSO guide rail square and use this for repeatable cross-cuts.

Offline Ewoodster

  • Posts: 6
Re: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2019, 01:51 AM »
I would recommend you to not use the table mounted guide rail. The best way for doing repeatable cuts is to use bench dogs. I am using Peter's Parf Super Dogs for guide rail alignment and small dogs to align the wood. This way you always get perfect 90° or 45° cuts.

Offline WoodworkTech

  • Posts: 130
    • My Personal Blog
Re: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2019, 09:13 AM »
I would recommend you to not use the table mounted guide rail. The best way for doing repeatable cuts is to use bench dogs. I am using Peter's Parf Super Dogs for guide rail alignment and small dogs to align the wood. This way you always get perfect 90° or 45° cuts.
I like the idea of using Super Dogs and smaller bench dogs to act as a fence.  How do you obtain repeatablity thought without a fence and flag stops?
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Offline X

  • Posts: 6
Re: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2019, 10:40 AM »
Hope this helps

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 743
Re: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2019, 10:08 AM »
Here's how I get square pieces.  I've tried other methods, but haven't been successful.

0. Square cut rail with fence on MFT.
0. Make sure your stock is flat!
 
1. Rough cut piece to get close to size. 
2. Straight-line edge one side.  I usually do this with a rail clamped to the piece on a different MFT.
3. Mark straight-line edge as a "reference".  Keep track of which side is the reference!
4. Cut the side parallel to the reference.  I use a table saw.  Properly calibrated parallel guides will work.  I haven't been successful free-handing it.
5. Place reference side against back fence and make the first cross-cut.
6. Flip the piece end over end, retaining the reference side against the fence.
7. Mark final length, set flag stop.
8. Make final cross-cut.

That's the only way I've been able to get consistent pieces.  There is a very slight error when the pieces are matched together.  Generally the thickness of a playing card.  That's as close as I can get it.

I hope this helps.

Offline jarbroen

  • Posts: 101
Re: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2019, 05:59 PM »
If you use the Precision dogs or Seneca parallel guides you can attach one to the rail near the TSO guide rail square and use this for repeatable cross-cuts.

That's a great idea!  I hadn't thought of putting the two together.  With the assurance of the piece being square via the GRS then you only need to set one of the parallel guides for the length.
A step further would be something like the parallel guides or incra track that attaches to the GRS.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1839
Re: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2019, 12:35 AM »
The fence should not "wiggle" under normal use. Either something isn't tightened down completely or the "clamp" that holds the end in place isn't secured or installed properly. The only way to make this fence "wiggle" if all the points are secured is to put some force on it. It should not wiggle by merely placing a piece of wood up against it. At least that's my experience.
Randy

Offline simonh

  • Posts: 42
Re: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2019, 07:40 AM »
I have a couple of setups on my MFT.

I use the @TSO Products GRS-16 PE for general cross-cutting with my track saw. It's quick easy and accurate without fussing with all the Festool bits n pieces.

I was just finishing off some melamine doors that I wanted square and repeatable sizing. So I setup an Incra fence with the Fence Dogs from www.benchdogs.co.uk. I setup the rail to be square to the fence using the TSO MTR/PTR-18 (18"triangle accurate to 0.001"). Run the router on the track to tidy up any chipping and size to final width / length.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 07:44 AM by simonh »

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 682
Re: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2019, 08:23 AM »
Here the link from x's picture

To me this is the best setup you can get. Easy to remove and put back with the same accuracy.

A few members have that set up, perhaps they can provide some input. @mattbyington
Mario

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 682
Re: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2019, 10:33 AM »
I'm  [jawdrop]

As some of you know I am building an Outfeed/Assembly/MFT table. After posting a link to the BenchDog fence, I review that fence again. I was convinced enough that I made an order at 8:21AM. Received shipping confirmation at 9:40AM and a tracking # at 10:13AM

Wow that's fast  [big grin]
Mario

Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 195
Re: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2019, 12:48 AM »
Thanks for the shout out @Mario Turcot !

Yes I indeed use fence dogs from the same company - I love them. They make great stuff and yes I've found them to be very prompt.

I didn't get their fence, I just use the standard MFT fence but it works similarly. The fence dogs are really the critical ones.

Extremely secure (Make sure to secure from below with a knob!).

That and then squaring the rail to the fence carefully (really make sure it's perfectly square, don't rush it - I know it sounds silly but trust me. Get a chair. Take a seat. take your time. you'll find usually you're a thou or two or three off when it looked square from a few feet away).

Then, I use the LS positioned by Incra for repeatable measurements + thin stock.

I find it way more accurate and repeatable than flag stops since it goes to the same place every time, whereas flag stop is manually place.

They're both good but it's just whether you want to be within 1/32 or within 1/1000

Matt

Offline simonh

  • Posts: 42
Re: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2019, 02:49 AM »
I contacted Ralph @ BenchDogs last year and suggested he make what became the Fence Dogs. He came up with a design to fit the Incra fence (aswell as other designs) and kindly made me a set FOC (pictured above with my Incra rail on the MFT). I had hoped to post about them earlier but an injury and other projects kept me out of the workshop for longer than I'd hoped.

I align the Incra rail upto the edge of the Festool rail so that it is positioned the same each time. I setup the calibration rule on the Incra rail so I can just set the flip stop at any 1mm repeatable increments.

Offline WoodworkTech

  • Posts: 130
    • My Personal Blog
Re: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2019, 07:13 AM »
Thanks for the shout out @Mario Turcot !

Yes I indeed use fence dogs from the same company - I love them. They make great stuff and yes I've found them to be very prompt.

I didn't get their fence, I just use the standard MFT fence but it works similarly. The fence dogs are really the critical ones.

Extremely secure (Make sure to secure from below with a knob!).

That and then squaring the rail to the fence carefully (really make sure it's perfectly square, don't rush it - I know it sounds silly but trust me. Get a chair. Take a seat. take your time. you'll find usually you're a thou or two or three off when it looked square from a few feet away).

Then, I use the LS positioned by Incra for repeatable measurements + thin stock.

I find it way more accurate and repeatable than flag stops since it goes to the same place every time, whereas flag stop is manually place.

They're both good but it's just whether you want to be within 1/32 or within 1/1000

Matt

Do you have pics of your setup with the LS and how you use it. 
Festool TS 55 REQ-F-PLUS
Festool OF 1400 EQ-F-PLUS
Festool CT MIDI HEPA
Festool Domino DF 500 Q-PLUS
Festool PRO 5 LTD (ETS 125 REQ)
Festool FS 1400/2 (x2)
Festool FS 1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail
Festool LR32 Router Hole Drilling Set

Offline box185

  • Posts: 34
Re: MFT 3 table cut repeatability?
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2019, 08:37 AM »
I drilled a few extra holes for some T-bolts just behind the back 20 mm holes, and centered them between the 96 mm hole spacings.

These additional holes ( I used three / 52 inch Incra Rail ) do not need to be positioned in a precise location because the front face of the Incra Rail is butted up against the 20 mm bench dogs. The T-bolts are then tightened from below the bench. The bench dogs that were used for alignment are removed once the T-bolts are tightened.

I have a second row of additional holes located closer to the front of the MFT/3 for relocating the Incra Rail should that be needed.

Paul
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 09:02 AM by box185 »