Author Topic: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions  (Read 105092 times)

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Offline Ned

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #120 on: March 02, 2008, 02:05 PM »
Question:  The MFT3 top has threaded inserts for the screws that attach it to the frame.  What is the size of the screws used?

Thanks,
Ned

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Offline Ned

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #121 on: March 02, 2008, 02:08 PM »
Question:  What is the minimum height of the MFT3's fence?  The old MFT's fence was 14mm; this made extra work when cutting 1/2" (12.7mm) or thinner stock.

Thanks,
Ned

Offline Festool USA

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #122 on: March 02, 2008, 02:53 PM »
Three questions on the upcoming MFT3:
1. Will the leg braces be compatible with the current MFT1080? If so, will they be available separately?
2: Will the new rails with top V-grooves accomodate slide-in clamps that face in towards the table? I find I seldom use the current top of rail slots for clamping because you can't extend the clamp over the work surface.
3: Does the new angle unit (other than bi-directional travel) offer any advantage over the current angle unit; i.e. does it hold its position any better, is it any easier to calibrate, or offer a vernier scale?

1. Not sure.  To be honest, I have not had my hands on them yet so I can't answer that question.  The braces are cool and fold and lock onto the leg for transport meaning they do not have to be removed.  As soon as I have an answer regarding backwards compatibility, I will post.
2. No.  However, the depth of the side profiles is much greater than on the gen 2 MFT.  This means there is now about 2" of thickness to allow for a clamping surface.
3. It is much more substantial in size and in accuracy.  The V-groove profile assists with making sure the fence can be removed and attached without recalibration.  The fence is notched allowing thinner stock (about 2-3 mm thinner than the previous models).  The fence and angle unit can slide fore and aft providing additional cross cut capacity (3" more than the 1080).  Likewise, you can move the material closer to the front reducing the reach on thinner materials.  That's a few of the things that come to mind.

Shane

Offline Festool USA

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #123 on: March 02, 2008, 02:55 PM »
Question:  What is the minimum height of the MFT3's fence?  The old MFT's fence was 14mm; this made extra work when cutting 1/2" (12.7mm) or thinner stock.

Thanks,
Ned


Ned, we measured this and it was about 2-3mm thinner as I recall.  The fence is notched between the angle unit and guide rail accomodating the thinner material.  If you want an exact measurement I can get in when I am back in the office tomorrow.  Just let me know.  Also, not sure of the size of the threaded inserts but I will see if I can get an answer on that also.

Offline Ned

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #124 on: March 02, 2008, 03:03 PM »
Thanks, Shane.

Just confirming that the fence isn't as high is enough for now.

As for the threaded inserts:  Just before the info came out on the MFT3, I was thinking about putting inserts in my old MFT top.  I'll probably use the same size Festool uses in the MFT3.  I'm guessing something like M5, but that's pure guess.

Thanks,
Ned

Offline Corwin

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #125 on: March 03, 2008, 01:17 AM »
I can tell you that your collective voice has been heard regarding a solution for connecting the gen 2 and gen 3 MFTs.  While there is no solution that I can announce, we recognize the concern and it has been conveyed to the engineers.  I think there will be a solution, just not sure what it will be and how soon it will be available.

Wow!  This is great news.  Thanks Festool!   ;D

As to the MFT3's new fence, with an LR32 guide rail mounted on the MFT3 one could align the fence to the stop(s) on that rail -- another setup option.
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline lawhoo

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #126 on: March 03, 2008, 08:34 AM »
If the new angle unit registers off the V-groove, does that mean that one couldn't retrofit it to an MFT1080?

Offline Terp

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #127 on: March 03, 2008, 10:01 AM »
If the new angle unit registers off the V-groove, does that mean that one couldn't retrofit it to an MFT1080?

 Bingo.  But be creative & you can retrofit any thing to the MFT 1080.  I've seen alot of devices sold under other brand names that are designed for use in aluminum T-slot track.  These devices & some creativity, should allow for infinite options.  Remember the MFT 1080 is an adaptable tool, & they never sold you everything you'd need anyway.  Unless the work I do is not as custom as it seems, I don't see how their engineers could think of every operation I do.
  I saw one gentleman had built his own trestle table under an expanded version of the MFT 1080.  On this he has installed the Incra miter 2000, I beleive.
His table blows the MFT3 away.  The t-slot in the edge of your MFT 1080 will hold what ever you can mate to it.  Be creative & have fun.
Dusty man

Offline Lancashire Fusilier

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #128 on: March 03, 2008, 06:33 PM »
All, I received a reply from Festool with regards to the MFT3 in Australia and I have quoted it here:

"Hi Paul,
Sorry but we haven?t been given a release date for this tool as yet.
I will send you a catalogue in the mail.
Regards
Travis."

I will follow this up with him again.
Paul M. Hamilton
Lancashire Fusiliers & 20th Foot
Historian, Researcher & Collector

Offline Ted Owen

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #129 on: March 04, 2008, 06:08 PM »
Dan, as I told Eli in a PM it was two years ago and luckily it was not a slapshot or I would have been really hurt. As it was I had two blow out fractures of the orbital socket, broke my nose in two places and jammed bone fragments into the maxillary sinus cavity. However, I was back on the ice three weeks later and am fully recovered. In addition I drove myself eight miles to the hospital bleeding like a stuck pig in my hockey gear. They x-rayed me, stitched me up, gave me vicodine and said okay drive yourself home.  ;D It was quite an eventful night. At least now I wear a half shield. ;) Again as I mentioned to Eli, I just like the picture and since I don't need to impress any woman, I figured what the heck. ::) Fred

Geez, Fred. I had no idea.

You going to 5-barns this July? Looks like I'll be out of town and unable to attend, for the third consecutive year.

Best, Ted

Offline Fred West

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #130 on: March 04, 2008, 06:43 PM »
Ted, Somone has to catch the pucks. :o) As I recall you started down the Slippery Slope of Festool far before I did. How goes it with you?  ;) :D ;D Fred
Domino,TS 75, Trion PS 300, RO 150, ETS 150/5, DTS 400, RS 400, LS 130, RS 2, Deltex 93, CT 33 CT 22, CT Midi & 3 MFT 1080s, OF 1400, C 12, RAS 115, MFK 700, MFT/3 :o)

Offline Ted Owen

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #131 on: March 06, 2008, 08:34 PM »
Fred, I've personally funded graduate school educations for Bob Marino's children.

Good to hear from you again.

Best, Ted

Offline Don Bullock

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #132 on: March 07, 2008, 04:35 PM »
Matthew,
I know this has been addressed in other threads, but Festool hasn't convinced me that I need a MFT no matter which model they are selling. Maybe I'm crazy (very possible), but I don't see the advantages of having one at least for the price they are charging. Yes, I do see the advantage of many Festool products and plan to add some to the sander I already have. I'm certainly not one of those people who think that all Festool products are over priced.

Offline Fred West

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #133 on: March 07, 2008, 04:52 PM »
Ted, I have funded his retirement at the very least if not a new house.  ;) :D

As far as the MFT, I very much used to be one of those that did not see the need for one. Now, after owning and using three 1080s, I am pretty much convinced that the tables may very well be the single most important and functional tool that Festool sells. Fred
Domino,TS 75, Trion PS 300, RO 150, ETS 150/5, DTS 400, RS 400, LS 130, RS 2, Deltex 93, CT 33 CT 22, CT Midi & 3 MFT 1080s, OF 1400, C 12, RAS 115, MFK 700, MFT/3 :o)

Offline clintholeman

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #134 on: March 07, 2008, 05:06 PM »
Matthew,
I know this has been addressed in other threads, but Festool hasn't convinced me that I need a MFT no matter which model they are selling. Maybe I'm crazy (very possible), but I don't see the advantages of having one at least for the price they are charging. Yes, I do see the advantage of many Festool products and plan to add some to the sander I already have. I'm certainly not one of those people who think that all Festool products are over priced.

I will take this opportunity to answer.  It is the system, not the individual tools that make FesTool.  while buying individual tools is a statement about the quality you want, using the FesTool system is what really makes them such an incredible bargain.  The MFT is at the core of the system.  It increases one's efficiency markedly and makes many tasks easier and some simply possble.

Offline Matthew Schenker

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #135 on: March 07, 2008, 06:11 PM »
Matthew,
I know this has been addressed in other threads, but Festool hasn't convinced me that I need a MFT no matter which model they are selling. Maybe I'm crazy (very possible), but I don't see the advantages of having one at least for the price they are charging. Yes, I do see the advantage of many Festool products and plan to add some to the sander I already have. I'm certainly not one of those people who think that all Festool products are over priced.

Don,
For me, the MFT has become such a central part of every project, I sometimes don't think about it too much.  That might sound like a hypocritical statement, but it's true.  Every single project, I just assume I'll be crosscutting on the MFT with the TS55, claming parts down with clamping elements and sanding, or holding parts down as I cut mortises with the Domino.  The list goes on and on.  But the point is, it's at the heart of every project.  Not only that, it has also made each of these actions -- crosscutting, sanding, mortisiing, and more -- easier and more centralized.  If the MFT were suddenly gone, I'd be scrambling for ways to do all these things.
Matthew
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 06:12 PM by Matthew Schenker »
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Offline Dave Ronyak

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #136 on: March 07, 2008, 09:46 PM »
Ted, I have funded his retirement at the very least if not a new house.  ;) :D

As far as the MFT, I very much used to be one of those that did not see the need for one. Now, after owning and using three 1080s, I am pretty much convinced that the tables may very well be the single most important and functional tool that Festool sells. Fred


I'm a hobbyist DIYer who agrees.  I was very skeptical at first, but eventually bought a 1080.  A year later a bought a 800.  Upon hearing Festool was stopping production of the orginal models, I bought another 800.  And eventually, I'll probably get another 1080 (used) from someone.  I've already lined up the purchase of one from a dealer when the MFT3 replacements become the norm for demos.   Ditto the Festool clamps.  I started with only a pair of short screw type clamps.  Now I have several more, a few in each of the different lengths and styles.  The MFTs are very versatile, and portable.  Read Jerry Work's manual for an excellent overview of some of the many uses.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline porkchop

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #137 on: March 08, 2008, 06:04 PM »
A few ideas;
1. different tops, one with a thin sacrificial/replaceable 1/8" top over pvc foam core (corecell, divinicell) sandwiched with thin aluminum sheet on bottom to keep jigs aligned and holes from getting trashed. Probably cut a lot of weight and make it so you can flip it easily and use aluminum surface (with a swipe of mold release or wax on it) as a direct glue up surface. Or make the bottom sandwich sacrificial 1/8" mdf too. One side for rough work, one for finish? Pins at center and it rotates weightlessly and locks in place for instant switching between surfaces? One side has jigs in place etc? So much potential for improvement here.

2. offer an upgrade to carbon fiber legs that would cut weight and vibration further.

3. clamp storage/shelf tainer system?

For the price it seems we should get more of these types of improvements.

It seems the big draw so far is just a better fence (the old one sucked badly) and the price we pay is incompatability with our old tables? Should have just made a better fence and offered that until they really had a new table worth switching for? It looks better but not better enough to justify cost/hassle/damage to "system" image.

Offline porkchop

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #138 on: March 09, 2008, 01:13 AM »
had another idea, how about wheels that slide into V tracks so table can be rolled folded up on edge

Offline Eli

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #139 on: March 09, 2008, 05:47 PM »
This already works so well with a slotted track though! ;D
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline porkchop

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #140 on: March 09, 2008, 06:57 PM »
I agree the existing table is great. It's a little hard to get used to the idea of not using clamps in tracks to clamp at edges of table. I guess the mft3 is the same and doesn't offer a "ninety degree" track clamp. Maybe it would put too much pressure on the tracks and distort them?

I would like to see more upgrades/features to justify them abandoning the old tables and those who purchased them. Maybe they should have offered both for a few years?

Offline graphex

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #141 on: March 09, 2008, 07:48 PM »
Maybe they should have offered both for a few years?

Or at least no gap. I was just about to buy a 1080 when I heard about the MFT3. I think those of you with any type of MFT take it for granted. I can only dream of how nice it must be to toss some wood under the rail, close and saw. I'm trying to find corners and edges to clamp to my plywood-on-sawhorses worktable, saving my offcuts to support the rail so it doesn't bend or twist. I've got to wait 2 more months before I've got a table at all. Hopefully by then the plywood I've been cutting into swiss cheese won't have completely collapsed!
Sean McKibben
Westminster, Colorado

we need more tools in north america

Offline Corwin

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #142 on: March 10, 2008, 01:58 AM »
... I'm trying to find corners and edges to clamp to my plywood-on-sawhorses worktable...

Hmmm, I could sell you four corners and four of the longer profiles off the current (soon past) MFT 1080.  Worked great between two 1080s, but is now disassembled because it was just too large to have up in my shop on a perminate basis.
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline graphex

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #143 on: March 10, 2008, 02:41 AM »
I appreciate the offer, but I'm also working with limited space and will continue suffering until the MFT3 can be produced. :-\

I think of these tools as investments, (although woodworking will only be a hobby unless I get much better at it) and I don't want to invest in something that's already been 'delisted' as it were. I'm sure the functionality of the two versions is very comparable, but if they release a new v-grove compatible accessory that I 'need' and I have to reinvest the full amount of a table I'll kick myself.

From what I've read here, a primary component in the tooling of the 800/1080 broke, (extrusion form?) leading to the gap between MFT versions we're experiencing. It is my nature to complain about gaps like this - and their impact on the consumer (I have a degree in advertising/graphic design, after all) but when it comes down to it, I'll just hold on until the release with only a few complaints about how a company which probably has more money than God takes 3 months to get a new tool built for a critical niche they engineered themselves  ;)

Ironically enough, the project I'm working on now is a workbench. I intended it to be supplemental to a MFT, and I counted on having an MFT to complete the steps to build it. As it stands, I'm trying to make up for the deficit of having no mitre saw and just a TS-75 with the included rail and an additional LR-32 to get things done with. I think it is possible, just quite a few extra steps, some difficulty cutting things properly, and I keep messing things up just enough to where I would appreciate what a reference surface and square MFT fence would give me.

I've been posting to the Angle Guide thread lamenting how it de-squares itself so easily. I got a horrible table saw (DW 745) which I can't really use for much of anything in my current project (and it makes me fear for my life - or at least my hands). Both of these would be moot points if I had an MFT, of course, so I'm just trying to get through this project (and my $800 of maple) without completely buying the farm.

It is going to be a great workbench if I can just get the ends of the stretchers and legs square. I'm really close, but I was mitering the legs, and the plywood/sawhorse table I'm cutting on was bowed, so the cut pinched a bit and now they've got saw marks on the ends and aren't that square. Oh well, I'm really just a beginner (this is my second wood project since wood shop in middle school) so I should just take my knocks and see how forgiving the design will be.

Aww crap, this post turned out to be way too long winded. I'm sorry if you've read this far.
Sean McKibben
Westminster, Colorado

we need more tools in north america

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #144 on: March 10, 2008, 09:40 AM »

... I was mitering the legs, and the plywood/sawhorse table I'm cutting on was bowed, so the cut pinched a bit and now they've got saw marks on the ends and aren't that square.


You need an MFT now.
Or at least, a flat piece of plywood (or MDF) and a couple of (shimmed) level sawhorses.

Offline porkchop

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #145 on: March 10, 2008, 07:24 PM »
the festool table does become something you take for granted and the entire "system" (which is anchored by great dust control) is more than the sum of the individual tools. But I think some tools shine much brighter than others. For me the saw and guide system and the domino I could no longer work without. Everyone has their favorites and there are no real losers in the line. The sanders are great for woodwork I just wish they had a real production sander (not random orbital)  that could compete with a milwakee 5000 for production sanding of other things. Festools sanders are slower than molasses when it comes to heavy jobs (boats, fiberglass, etc)

My old table which was 2'by 8' made of three layers of laminated 3/4" maple ply and edged in maple with lots of holes drilled in top and legs for using the old style "hammer in the hole" bench clamps is still really useful and sometimes still easier and faster (just as a compound slider is sometimes a better tool for crosscuts and sometimes a table saw for ripping) but overall the festool mft has so many strengths and options and is portable. I recommend taking the plunge and just getting one to any skeptics. Should be some used ones as some people upgrade to mft3

Offline porkchop

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #146 on: March 10, 2008, 08:17 PM »
oh yeah, this has probably been asked a thousand times but I am new here. Why no CMS or table saws in the US of A?

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #147 on: March 10, 2008, 10:02 PM »
oh yeah, this has probably been asked a thousand times but I am new here. Why no CMS or table saws in the US of A?

Festool has been unable to get UL (Underwriters Laboratories) approval for the CMS here in the States.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Don Bullock

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #148 on: March 10, 2008, 10:08 PM »

Don,
For me, the MFT has become such a central part of every project, I sometimes don't think about it too much.  That might sound like a hypocritical statement, but it's true.  ...
Matthew

First, thanks for those of you who have replied about the MFT. I appreciate the input.

Matthew, that's just my point. I could say the same thing for my Black & Decker WorkMate that I've been using for about thirty years. Since I don't have space for a bench, it's the most used tool in my shop. I literally use it for everything that is at all possible. You'd be amazed what I've used it for. People say that their MFT is central to their shop, but I could do most of the same things (remember I don't have a Festool circular saw or router) about my WorkMate. What makes the MFT so unique that it "solves" my woodworking problems or makes my woodworking so much easier? Those are the types of questions that Festool needs to address if they are going to penetrate deeper into the market. After buying a Festool sander you don't have to convince me that they are well made tools and work well. That alone, however, isn't enough to convince me that the rest of their tools are "musts" for my shop. I'm sure that I'm not alone. There are many more who are out there wondering what it's all about. One only has to read the woodworking forums to find that out.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 10:09 PM by Don Bullock »

Offline Dan Clark

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Re: MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions
« Reply #149 on: March 11, 2008, 12:08 AM »

Don,
For me, the MFT has become such a central part of every project, I sometimes don't think about it too much.  That might sound like a hypocritical statement, but it's true.  ...
Matthew
...
What makes the MFT so unique that it "solves" my woodworking problems or makes my woodworking so much easier?
...
Don,

I agree that we need more of this information.   However, one of the major issues is that the value of the MFT is a little different for everyone.    Some people love it.   Others say it's too heavy and bulky to move around.   What you use it for may be different from me.   

If you add a guide rail plus accessories to an MFT, it becomes a decent cross cut table saw.   The number of ways that you can use if for a clamping station is amazing.  I've clamped my Makita belt sander to my MFT for a stationary sander.  I've used it for glueup and sanding.   I've used it to clamp sheetrock for some cutting.   It's a convenient place to put tools when I'm working.   With a Ridgid flip-top stand, I used Festool clamps attached to the side to clamp a board for planing.   Clamp down a guide rail to a piece of wood and rout on it.  You can connect two or more MFTs together to make a big MFT.   Lots of options.

Here's a pic of a quick and dirty "vice" setup that I created in about 20 minutes.   

And here's the routing jig I set up to cut the slots for the "vice":


Here's a pic of Jesse's setup for quickly ripping some small strips:


Here's LaserGecko's sanding station:


Perhaps you might fancy a nice glue-up station like Matthew's:


I have a WorkMate and still use it occasionally.  Sometimes with my MFT.   My WorkMate is still useful, but doesn't have near the flexibility of the MFT.

The bottom line is YMMV.   YOU take the MFT where you want it to go.  It has the flexibility, but YOU make it useful.

Regards,

Dan.