Author Topic: Most versatile Drill  (Read 3530 times)

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Offline Tim3100

  • Posts: 6
Most versatile Drill
« on: May 12, 2019, 05:10 AM »
Hi,

I’m soon moving to a new place where there is some renovation work to do (new floors, removal  of a wall, new wood stairs,...). Therefore, I’m building up a small home machine park. After falling in love with the TS55 and the Kapex KS60, I decided to go all Festool.

I’m now looking for one drill, which covers in the best case all use cases during renovations and later on — maybe besides drilling in reinforced concrete walls if this would broaden the spectrum to much.

Could you maybe give me a recommendation for the most versatile and generic drill? What is the machine you use most of you have several?

I appreciate any comments and suggestions .
Tim

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Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2518
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2019, 06:48 AM »
I have a bunch of Festool drills. If I could only keep one, it would be the T-18 with the accessory kit. If only two, they would be the TSX and the T-18 both with the accessory kits. The T-18 has all the power I will ever need. The TSX is a delightful tool that feels great in the hand and can reach into impossibly small spaces, especially with the nifty accessories that come in the kit.

If possible, you should try both the "C" and "T" handle form factors. I prefer the T handles. Others like the C handles.
Birdhunter

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 345
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2019, 06:54 AM »
For installation work and drilling jobs in wood up to, like, 12mm/half an inch I would recommend going with a small comfortable model with some options for an angled head etc. From Festool this would be the CSX12 I think. I have a Bosch 12V "Flexiclick" kit myself that I'm also happy with, and Metabo/Mafell make a similar 12V model.

What you can't do with that very well is drill in stone and certainly not concrete. But my situation is probably similar to yours in that I'm renovating my home and most of the time you really just don't need the power and weight of an 18V model and it's just annoying to do smaller jobs with something made to drill stone or concrete. So you'll end up getting at least two if you have stone or concrete to do as well.

I now have a bunch of drills, there is no concrete in my home but the outer walls are brick. If I had to make do with just one drill it would be my 14.4V Fein drill that I got in a kit with a multimaster oscillating tool. It has an impact setting that is strong enough for the brick in my house and it's not crazy heavy. I still reach for my 12V Bosch 90 percent of the time. It's just mo fun using anything heavier overhead or anything bigger installing closets etc.

EDIT:
By the way, Bosch also does two impact screwdrivers on the same battery platform. So I usually use the drill for drilling and the impact driver for screwing as it's infinitely more powerful for that and easier on the wrist. Since I only needed to buy the body it cost me like 60 bucks. I think with such a combo and a heavier corded drill hammer for the occasional tough work you could do almost anything without breaking the bank.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 07:00 AM by Sanderxpander »

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 475
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2019, 07:07 AM »
My view on this is, whilst its nice to have one drill with a million attachments you can swap over in twenty or so seconds, its generally more practical to have two or three so you can just leave a drill bit in one, a screwdriver bit in another and maybe an SDS bit in another and just pick one up when you need it.

You can usually get two or even three from another manufacturer cheaper than one Festool.
Make sure one of them is an impact screwdriver, another a drill driver with a chuck that opens upto 13mm (or half an inch if you're using those Liberian measurements) and an SDS sure is handy for one that drills stone or concrete.
Oh and make sure the bleedin things all have decent belt hanger clip things, that stupid flappy thing I saw on a Festool drill a while ago (think it was a T18 or something like that) was pathetic, I had to look at it everytime I hung it off my pouch.
Got a few Hitachis that have a great clip that I just don't have to think about, just hang it off my toolbelt pouch without looking.
If you're in a workshop thats not really an issue, just place it on your bench and take photos of it for instagram ;)

Offline Slowlearner

  • Posts: 46
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2019, 07:24 AM »
I have no experience w festool drills but i do have extensive exp on my Rigid drill set. I know homedepot has a drill and driver brushless 18v  2 batteries and a charger for about 180.00. Batteries and tool is lifetime warranty as long as you send in the info. I have used the drill to drill into concrete slab metal ypu name it.  After about 5 uears the chuck couldnt grip. Sent it in no worries. For right angle i ise a milwalkee m12 but thats just house hold dont expect to go through heavy concrete w it but i have

Offline Tim3100

  • Posts: 6
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2019, 07:33 AM »
Thanks for the quick replies!

I get the impression using one machine will become too much of a compromise. I currently already own a Bosch GSR 12V, which I think is ok for small jobs. I tried to drill out a metal screw once without any success, which was quite frustrating and somehow the starting point for my thoughts on a new (replacement) drilling tool.

Maybe keeping the Bosch for small jobs and adding a T18 / C18 / PDC would make sense? Would the T/C-18 be able to drill occasionally in concrete? I could later on still switch the Bosch to a TXS / CXS if I think it is worth the upgrade.

>> If possible, you should try both the "C" and "T" handle form factors. I prefer the T handles. Others like the C handles.
I will definitely try to find a store to test this.

>> By the way, Bosch also does two impact screwdrivers on the same battery platform.
Thanks, I will have a look at that! I wasn't too excited by the GSR, but I understand the reason was mainly because I used it outside its comfort zone (metal drilling).

>> Oh and make sure the bleedin things all have decent belt hanger clip things
Will double-check  [smile]

Offline Tim3100

  • Posts: 6
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2019, 07:38 AM »
I have no experience w festool drills but i do have extensive exp on my Rigid drill set. I know homedepot has a drill and driver brushless 18v  2 batteries and a charger for about 180.00. Batteries and tool is lifetime warranty as long as you send in the info. I have used the drill to drill into concrete slab metal ypu name it.  After about 5 uears the chuck couldnt grip. Sent it in no worries. For right angle i ise a milwalkee m12 but thats just house hold dont expect to go through heavy concrete w it but i have
That's definitely a better price point, but I would be willing to spend the money for Festool. If one tool is too much compromise and two don't fit in the budget, I would rather buy one tool now and add a second sometime later.

Offline Slowlearner

  • Posts: 46
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2019, 07:59 AM »
Gotcha. Price point youll probaly be into all drill w chargers for id say under 400. Milwalkee drill is  tool only so youll need a charger and battery. I used the m12 to drill into steel..it was a frame of a car and it did it. Good luck w the decision. Let us know which was you go.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1571
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2019, 08:47 AM »
Price aside, I would consider a tool set from another mainstream tool brand.  You’ll benefit from their entire ecosystem of tools in your projects, many of which aren’t even available from Festool (starting with the impact driver!).  Those sets will all include a hammer drill or drill driver.  Use it and see how it goes.  If you’re not happy, sell it then look at the Festool. 

If you do go do Festool to supplement the 12V Bosch, it’s either the PDC or C/T18.  The PDC will do light drilling in concrete, the C/T18 is not made for it.  But I like the 4 speed gearbox and higher drill speeds in the PDC.  It’s a beast of a drill.  It is about an inch longer and half pound heavier than a T18.  I pair it with a 3aH battery to cut down on weight and fatigue.  The ability to turn on the LED and keep it lit is very handy.

For real concrete work, buy or rent a Bosch SDS.  There is a night and day difference compared to a hammer drill. 
-Raj

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5928
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2019, 09:56 AM »
I think the largest plus for Festool drills is their interchangeable chuck system. After that, the compactness and light weight of the CXS drill is really beguiling. It's my favorite drill to use for small fastening tasks.

If I need to torque down a number of fasteners to a consistent and repeatable level, I choose the C 15 because it uses electronic torque sensing rather than the fairly crude typical slip clutch that's in other drills.

For all other tasks I use a Milwaukee M18 drill. It has more power than a Festool drill and is lighter than a Festool PDC while still having a hammer function for light duty concrete/brick work. It's brushless so the battery life is great and it cost around $300 with 2 batteries and a charger.




Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5613
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2019, 10:05 AM »
I agree with the guy that said Its better to have 2 or more drills. I have 2 a C 12 and a C 18. Makes life a lot easier. For example counter sinking and driving screws. Its a hassle to keep changing bits especially if you have a lot to do.

I also have a milwaukie hannerdrill. A older one when Milwaukie was milwaukie long before they were sold. It has a keyed chuck.
I very seldom use it only for drilling into concrete. I dont do that very much. Maybe one quick job every couple of years.
It stays on the shelf until I need it. Its one of those tools that I dont use very much but sure and glad I own it when I need it.

But for 99% of the time my C 12 / C18 work just fine for my needs.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1571
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2019, 10:36 AM »
@Cheese The electronic clutch on the T and C drills are something of a mystery to me.  If I run the screw at a lower consistent speed, I get repeatable results.  But in construction type tasks running long screws into 2x lumber at full speed, the electronic clutch frequently overdrives the screws be a large margin of error, where as the mechanical clutches are much more accurate.  I’ve gotten frustrated with the level of concentration required with the electronic clutches and either sneak up manually rather than relying on the clutch or switch out to one of my other drills.  I’ve never had the patience to sit down and figure out what’s happening with the electronic clutch.  Any ideas??
-Raj

Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1442
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2019, 10:52 AM »
" I’ve never had the patience to sit down and figure out what’s happening with the electronic clutch."

Same with my PDC, I'll  use my two C-12s anytime all the time.

Who wants to hear a beep when you're trying set your Spax and GRK fasteners?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 06:16 PM by waho6o9 »

Offline Bill Chang

  • Posts: 54
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2019, 11:02 AM »
I’ve been running the T18 for years as my primary drill.  I also have a C15. But I prefer the classic T-style.

One of these days I’ll probably pick up the smaller csx type form factor.

I use the T15 for everything from mixing drywall to driving screws while on a ladder, don’t really notice the weight but I know it is there.

The belt clip sucks.

Online Reed Hoyer

  • Posts: 27
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2019, 11:54 AM »
I'm also in the 2 drill camp (maybe 3?). I think a drill that is essentially a driver, a workhorse drill, and a corded beast for jobs where you really want to abuse a drill is the ideal setup. In Festool parlance you'd be looking at a T/CSX and a T/C18 for the cordless options. The interchangeable chucks are nice.

I have had the Milwaukee m12 Fuel hammer drill and a standard m12 screw driver for quite a long time. After buying a TS55, CT36, OF1400, and MFT/3 I really fell in love with Festool products. After an RTS400, CT Midi, ETS/EC 150, RO 150, RAS 115, OF1010, LR32 system, DF700, RO 90, carvex 420, and more abrasives (both for sanders and sponges) than I thought I would ever own I decided my drills could use an upgrade. Especially given how much I like the eccentric and fixed 90 degree chucks. Having already adjusted my drill grip on my Milwaukee drills to using my ring or middle finger on the trigger depending on the application I ordered up a CSX and C18. This is where this story falls apart. I, personally, was really unimpressed with the centrotec system as a whole and I felt the balance of my Milwaukee 12V drills was on par with the Festool drills. I headed into my local Woodcraft and drove a load of screws with a TCX and T18 and was equally not blown away by their feel. The fit and finish is great, but I couldn't find a way to choke down the Koolaid on these drills despite desperately trying to. Given that I have no plans to buy any other Festool coordless tools I returned the drills and, frankly, was happy to not add 2 additional battery chargers to my collection. I ended up purchasing, on eBay from the UK, a Milwaukee M12Bddxkit-202C which is an m12 drill with 90 degree, jacobs, and eccentric swappable chucks. It's not as "nice" as the CSX but for $200 it's more capable and fits my current system. Bosch and Metabo both make 12V offerings with an even more expansive set of chucks than my Milwaukee that are available in the US without making an international purchase.

The TL/DR of this is that it may be worth you while to really assess the drill market as a whole before diving in. I think Festool products are at the top of the food chain, especially in the US market, but there are a lot of really good drills out there and drill ergonomics are a pretty personal thing. There aren't really any features on the drills, as there are on lots of Festool tools, that make up for personal preference on feel.

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 345
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2019, 12:19 PM »
If you have a 12V Bosch I think that changes stuff a lot. Do you have the one with exchangeable chucks (Flexiclick) or the regular one? The FC version is really versatile. But even if you don't it's a different story than starting from scratch. I would definitely recommend a more powerful 18V model in that case, if you have stone/brick walls like I do get one with an impact setting. That won't help with concrete but it'll do everything else. With a drill like that and a 12V (or 10.8V, they're the same really) impact driver you'll be able to tackle almost everything around the house.

You'll probably use the new drill a lot in the beginning but after a while the ocompact format of the 12V ones will come back into focus I think, especially as you get closer to finishing the house rather than doing rough construction.

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 475
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2019, 12:37 PM »
If you end up looking in another "ecosystem" then its worth mentioning that I have an 18 volt De-Walt brushless cordless  SDS that can have its own little extractor fitted (although I've not done that yet so can't comment on how good it is.
The drill does manage pretty well and Ive drilled 18mm holes into concrete with it with no isssues.

The 18 volt range (or 20 volt max in Liberia) has a nice impact screwdriver, with decent power and three LED lights that actually light the front up instead of just casting a shadow of the bit.
Ive used one of those a fair bit and its compact, fast and nice to use.
One thing about De-Walt is the other tools on the same battery platform. Theres some very good nailguns, the jigsaw is OK, the portable planer is just as good as any other cordless one.

Whatever cordless platform you choose, have a look at the other tools you can get and might want.

I really like Festools saws and feel they are at the top of their game with them, personally I'm not at all interested in the Centrotec which whilst it cojld be good if other companies produced bits to that standard it might have been a winner. As it is Centrotec is a bit Betamax insofar as it was theoretically better than VHS was but you pay through the nose for it.
Those torque settings in screwdrivers might be OK if I was setting screws into the same homogeneous material all day but wood just isn't quite like that so I almost never use the torque settings otherwise I'm constantly adjusting them.
I just can't see how Festool drills are worth the extra money, the saws? heck yes but the drills? Not so much.


Im a site based subcontractor carpenter so those who are workshop based might have equally valid but different ideas. They usually prefer lighter drills with less amp hour batteries as they are closer to a charger.
I'm often on sites where the charging stations are hundreds of yards away and not always so secure either so I'd rather have a 5 Ah battery that doesn't need charging so often.

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 450
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2019, 12:40 PM »
I purchased a T18 +3 set when my years old DeWalt 14.4 drills began failing.  I like it very much and it has plenty of power for nearly anything I can throw at it.  The versatility of the interchangeable chucks makes this drill suitable for a wide variety of uses.

More recently, I added a Bosch 12V Flexiclick and have been amazed at how much power that little drill has.  Although the chuck is smaller and it is not brushless, I find myself reaching for it far more often than the T18.  The interchangeable chucks are very well designed and you can use the offset/eccentric chuck in direct combination with the right angle adapter (unlike the T18).  The light weight combined with a surprisingly long run time are a real convenience particularly for typical assembly and installation uses. 

If I had to pick only a single drill, it would have to be the T18 only because of the increased power of an 18V brushless motor.  However, if I merely needed a do everything drill in the 10mm chuck range for medium and light duty work, it would be the Bosch Flexiclick at less than a third of the price of my T18.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 12:51 PM by Dick Mahany »

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5938
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2019, 12:48 PM »
I think the current T18 is the best all-round Festool drill to get. Or the C if you like that better, the shape is a personal preference.

Would the T/C-18 be able to drill occasionally in concrete?

Wouldn't make a dent. You need a drill with a very decent hammer function for that.

I agree with the guy that said Its better to have 2 or more drills.

Same here. I have a T15 and a C12. T15 for driving screws, C12 for drilling holes. Works so much faster than constantly having to switch out bits.

The electronic clutch on the T and C drills are something of a mystery to me. 
...
’ve never had the patience to sit down and figure out what’s happening with the electronic clutch.  Any ideas??

Ideas? Yeah, what you did, forget about the clutch, I have the exact same feeling, the electronic clucth is totally inconsistent and unreliable. I've gotten used to do it manually.

Offline Tim3100

  • Posts: 6
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2019, 05:51 PM »
For really heavy work, I can borrow a cord Makita jack-hammer from a local friend. But I think it would be handy to at least be able to drill an occasional hole for a picture frame with my own machines. This would probably favor the PDC over the T18 and C18. I think I will try to find a dealer to get them in my hands, compare and find out my personal preference. If I like the T/C more (as I think many of you do), I maybe give up the concrete drilling option if I take Festool.

Quote from: demographic
I just can't see how Festool drills are worth the extra money, the saws? heck yes but the drills? Not so much.
Quote from: Reed Hoyer
  think Festool products are at the top of the food chain, especially in the US market, but there are a lot of really good drills out there and drill ergonomics are a pretty personal thing.
In general, I like to buy the best tool of a category once and stick to it forever. However, it seems Festool might for drills not be THE goto tool. If not Festool and go with a different ecosystem, is Bosch, Makita, Milwaukee, DeWalt the top category for drills+ecosystem similar to Festool for saws?

If you have a 12V Bosch I think that changes stuff a lot. Do you have the one with exchangeable chucks (Flexiclick) or the regular one?
I only have the regular one, but I still like it for small jobs.

PS:this forum is impressive, thanks for all the feedback!

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5938
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2019, 06:25 PM »
This would probably favor the PDC over the T18 and C18. I think I will try to find a dealer to get them in my hands, compare and find out my personal preference. If I like the T/C more (as I think many of you do), I maybe give up the concrete drilling option if I take Festool.

The PDC is a much rougher drill than the T/C18. I have the T15 for 11 years now and I have never used a smoother more easily controllable drill than this one. I also have lots of experience with the PDC which my nephew owns and I have used it on many projects besides my own drill. 

What I think is the PDC's main advantage is the high speed that comes from the gearbox with 4 gears vs the T/C models which only have the usual 2. It makes driving screws very fast and it seems effortless. Downside is the 4 gearbox constantly jams when switching gears, I find it incredibly irritating in use. It also makes the drill run rough and noisy. And it's quite a bit heavier than my T15. And last but not least, when you use the hammer function, it is like you unleash heck on earth due to the sound. It makes twice as much noise as my 220v percussion drill, and that one's loud already.

My T15 is 11 years old now, and the PDC is 6 or 7. My T15 has seen a lot more use, but it is still as smooth as it was new, while the PDC is a piece of junk now, everything rattles and it seems to have only half the power it originally had.

I would not trade my T15 for a PDC, ever, not even if I got money on top. It's like driving a Mercedes versus a Landrover. A really old, crappy, worn out Landrover with a broken suspension.


Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2019, 06:39 PM »
Lot of advice here due to our great Members.  Thank you.

I spent a few days putting in 3" screws using my T-15 with my C-12 ready and waiting.  I wouldn't trade my T-15 for anything.  It just rocks.  And rocks again years later.

Peter

Offline Doug S

  • Posts: 424
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2019, 07:41 PM »
PDC is by far my most disappointing Festool purchase. The gearbox is really clunky, the electronic clutch just beeps at you all the time and it is stupid loud when drilling masonry.

My most used driver is my little csx, had it years and love it but only gets used for driving screws.

Went down the 18v Makita platform for rest of drills just because I have the batteries.

I use one of these for most of my drilling, it's really small and light and compliments the csx really well for me.

https://www.makitauk.com/product/ddf083z.html

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5928
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2019, 11:43 PM »
@Cheese The electronic clutch on the T and C drills are something of a mystery to me.  If I run the screw at a lower consistent speed, I get repeatable results.  But in construction type tasks running long screws into 2x lumber at full speed, the electronic clutch frequently overdrives the screws be a large margin of error, where as the mechanical clutches are much more accurate.   
Any ideas??

So run the screw at lower speeds... [poke]

Yea that's the key Raj. Kind of like Bar-B-Queing... low and slow.  [big grin]

I usually drill at the fastest speed, while I screw at the slowest speed. It's more satisfying... [cool]   [big grin]

It's impossible to expect to have any drill with a clutch, mechanical or electronic, to be able to react within any reasonable time window if that thing is operating in excess of 2000 rpm. The forward momentum and the mass of the chuck & drill precludes it from acting in
the instantanious way it would need to do in order to halt the drilling/screwing process.

The Festool solution is the best I've found and I do wish they'd incorporate it into their next gen CXS. I'd off-load the old CXS for the new new CXS in a hot NY second.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 11:48 PM by Cheese »

Offline jeffm13

  • Posts: 20
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2019, 01:21 AM »
I spent some time with a bunch of Boy Scouts this weekend, working on an Eagle Scout project to build some benches. I brought a T18 and a TXS along to speed things along a bit.  Interestingly, one older Scout decided that the TXS didn't have enough ooomph, and decided to go with a big and clunky, but more powerful, corded drill.  Two other older scouts loved using the TXS. I preferred using the T18, and assembled three benches a bit quicker than each team of boys could construct one.  I then used the T18 to do a bit of reinforcement to the benches constructed by the boys.

So my vote: two drills--the TXS and the T18. But if I had to choose, the T18 would win every time.
Festool: TS75, DF500, DF700, OF1400, LR32, ETS EC 150/5, DTS400, RS2E, T18, TXS, CT36, PS420, FS1400 (2), FS1400/2-LR 32, FS 2424/2-LR 32, Tradesman/Installer Cleaning Set; TSO: MTR-18, GRS-16 PE; UJK: Parf Dogs, Super Dogs, Parf Guide System MkII, Seneca: Parallel Guides, Domiplate, Domishim; Makita: 3000mm Guide Rail; Jessem: Mast-R-Lift w/metric conversion kit, Pow-R-Tec Router, Mast-R-Fence, Mit-R-Slide, ClearCut Stock Guides; Grizzly: G0441 Cyclone, G0691 Table Saw; Laguna: 18BX Bandsaw; Robland: X31 Combination Machine; Incra: MagnaLock Cleansweep; Woodpecker: 1281-300mm, 600mm T-Square, 1200mm Ruler, 1200mm Story Stick Pro; Bosch: GCM12SD Glide Miter Saw

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1978
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2019, 01:36 AM »
Just wrapped up a quick cabinet project, using the same Milwaukee M18 fuel for everything from removing old cabinets, drilling and setting lots of pocket screws, hanging cabinets, installing hardware, hole sawing, mixing some hot mud, and other stuff I’m forgetting right now. This thread made me realize I changed the battery only once in 4 days. This drill and the batteries is about 6 years old now and still going strong. Maybe I don’t know what I’m missing in other brands but I’ve been extremely satisfied with Milwaukee and it has served me very well
+1

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 345
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2019, 01:45 AM »
Ok so the OP has a 12V Bosch for small jobs, would like something more powerful and would like to occasionally drill a hole in concrete to hang stuff. A T18 seems to be loved almost universally here and would fit the bill except for the concrete. I'd suggest getting a cheap  corded green Bosch SDS hammer drill for that, it'll go like a hot knife through butter for that use. Get a T18 with the attachments for everything else. Get a 12V Bosch impact driver body if you do a lot of larger screws.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 01:50 AM by Sanderxpander »

Offline Tim3100

  • Posts: 6
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2019, 02:48 AM »
That’s a good summary and the path I‘m going to take. Given the experience here, PDC is no longer an option and I will look for a shop to try the T18 and C18.

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 517
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2019, 07:37 AM »
My T15 is 11 years old now, and the PDC is 6 or 7. My T15 has seen a lot more use, but it is still as smooth as it was new, while the PDC is a piece of junk now, everything rattles and it seems to have only half the power it originally had.

Could the difference in quality have to do with the origins of these machines? If I remember correctly the PDC was a Protool and it has been rebranded to Festool after TTS consolidated the two firms into one. (I am not sure about this, please correct me if I am wrong).

OT: I own 2 CXS's and two other Festool drills. The fact that I don’t know by heart which ones is an indication of what I use a lot and what not. Having 2 CXS's rocks!
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 Mk2 · MFT/3 + TSB1-MW 1000 + VL + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 EQ · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · Centrotec Sets 2008 + 2015 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · Kapex KS120 · 2 x MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700 · BS75 · OFK500 · OF2200 · CMS-GE … | Mirka 1230L P&C | Hammer A3 31 Silent Power · Hammer N4400 

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5938
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2019, 08:19 AM »
Could the difference in quality have to do with the origins of these machines? If I remember correctly the PDC was a Protool and it has been rebranded to Festool after TTS consolidated the two firms into one. (I am not sure about this, please correct me if I am wrong).

The PDC is a pure Festool design made by Festool engineers after TTS took over Protool. You can see clearly they used the T15 as a base to design the PDC, it has all the features and electronics of the T15. Only thing is they overstretched with the 4 gear box, it was just too much to be sturdy.
 

Offline Jim_in_PA

  • Posts: 61
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2019, 10:36 AM »

I get the impression using one machine will become too much of a compromise.

IMHO, this is an accurate statement. I prefer to use the "heavy" drill/drivers only for tasks where the extra power and stoutness is required. I have three Festool D/Ds (plus an older DeWalt) and my most used Festool is the tiny CSX. It's light-weight, surprisingly powerful and easy to control for one-hand use. That's for both in-shop tasks and home improvement stuff, too. I don't get tired as fast when there is a lot of ordinary drilling/driving going on that way.
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Offline Chinski

  • Posts: 48
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2019, 12:29 PM »
Yikes, and I was thinking of moving from my Dewalt hammer drill DCD996 + impact driver DCF887 combo to Festool and turned to this thread to decide which ones!

While I think they're a fantastic combo - my feeling was that all my other Festool tools made their predecessors look like kids toys so I'd find the same with the drills / drivers.  Well this thread has made me think again. 

Tell me, do Festool have an impact driver in the way that my Dewalt DCF887 literally whacks the screw / bolt round or do they simply rely on high torque (which admittedly gives better control)?

Well, there's a few $$$ saved anyway.

Thanks all!

Offline Jmacpherson

  • Posts: 215
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2019, 02:46 PM »
@Chinski - there is a new Festool impact driver on a list of products for 2019 that was leaked/discovered, check the 2019 thread. Nobody knows when this year, what it will be like or how much damage it will do to ones wallet.

Don't be too quick to discard your DCD996 or DCF887. Ergonomically they have one of the best grips on the market.

In response to the thread I've changed my tune a little, use to swear by the PDC, nice drill but not my go to anymore:

PDC is mainly used for making custom pocket hole plugs - 3800rpm is fantastic for this
T18 is my go to 18v drill for general projects and even stuff around the house
CXS is for small odd little screws
DCD996 is my "dirty" drill - used to mix paint, really large holes, all the messy jobs. 

I wish the T18 had more rpm, like 1800-2000 instead of 1500. (Problem when you have to speed monsters in your arsenal)


Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 345
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2019, 06:44 PM »
Most impact drivers have way higher speed for screws, I really like them for construction even when I don't do huge bolts. E.g. my simple Bosch GDR-12V has 2600RPM. You generally only need/want the the higher speed for rougher construction and larger screws anyway, I wouldn't use it for very small screws or cabinetry.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 06:47 PM by Sanderxpander »

Offline unixisgoodforyou

  • Posts: 18
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2019, 11:47 PM »
I own a T18+set.  As an all around drill it is very well made and will do most homeowner tasks.  The right angle and eccentric(sp?) attachments are awesome. I really appreciate the electronic clutch.  Every time I use it, there is a smile on my face. (My other drill is a cheap handme down lead acid hammer drill.). The Bosch was not available, when I bought my T18.

If I was to buy something today, I would look at the 12V Bosch flexiclick.  It isn’t as powerful, and isn’t brushless.  But it should do the job for a lot less shekels.  (I don’t have any other plans for other cordless tools from Festool.)
 RWW

Offline Reiska

  • Posts: 1171
  • Hackers build things, Crackers break them.
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2019, 07:47 AM »
By far my most used Festoy drill is the CXS (though I would probably prefer a TXS had it been available when I bought my CXS). About 99% of my use is covered with this little beauty from installing stuff to drilling medium sized screws. Light, nible ja small with excellent tight space utility.

Then I skipped the middle sizes for a PDC which I don't use often, but when I need power there is boat loads of it and the gearbox makes it very versatile for the odd large jobs. Maybe a T18 would be 'smoother' but if pure grunt is needed this is nice to have. If I need more power I'll go to my ½" bolt wrench to tighten lag bolts and such as the impact action is easier on the wrist than the PDC.

If I had concrete I would get an BHC for that, but since the only time I need to worry about hard concrete is when doing installation for friends at their houses I usually use their Makita hammer drill which serves well the need once every couple of years to put a painting up or attach a bookshelf to the wall, etc. Living in a light concrete house where one can make holes in the wall with my CXS (or a teaspoon for that matter) I don't really have a need for BHC.  [wink]

I also own the now discontinued epic fail of a Festool the Ti15 impact drill. Works just fine, but is rather limited to decking work and it is apparently underpowered for what it is compared to the market. Built a deck with it but hasn't seen use since. The adapter thingy in it to disengage the impact function makes it awfully clunky and tip heavy.

The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. [big grin]

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 345
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2019, 04:46 PM »
To the OP, you're probably not in The Netherlands but if you're close, the T18 is on sale right now with 2 3.1V Bluetooth enabled batteries, a fast charger and a systainer for 250 ex VAT at bouwmaat.nl
No attachments though, but a better price than I've seen anywhere else except for bare body versions.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5928
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2019, 11:02 PM »
@Cheese The electronic clutch on the T and C drills are something of a mystery to me. 

Raj, so here's another great example of at least 2 drilling needs.

The First need is to have multiple drills.
The CXS is outfitted with a 5/16" bit to enlarge holes in multiple garage door steel brackets.
The C 15 is outfitted with a socket to properly torque down the new carriage bolts.
The Milwaukee is outfitted with a 12-point socket to remove the SQUARE nuts that are rusted to the old carriage bolts.

Looking at all the different sizes of bits that need to be used, with only a single drill you'd spend 6 hours at this project. Constantly chucking and un-chucking the drill bits & drivers.

The Second need is to be able to reliably/repeatably torque down the new stainless fasteners. 38 of them in all, 114 torque checks because I checked each one 3 times and 114 beeps...sweet.

I wish the CXS would be upgraded to brushless with an electronic clutch.  [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]



Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 314
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2019, 02:37 AM »
Drills are something we have in abundance, our work is so varied we have to try and cover any scenario.
We have little tiny 10.8 volt drills and drivers, up to very big mains powered drills for boring into thick concrete.
As always, I think when buying tools you have to look at both ends of the scale, for what they will be used for.
In a workshop environment, I often make do with an 18 volt drill driver, and an 18 volt impact driver.
If doing a large project with different types of drill size and fixings, we often have multiple cordless drills and drivers set up. This is a more convenient and quicker way of working for us.

We don’t own many Festool cordless drills, simply because we need so many, and obviously the cost for what we need would be substantial. Also they do not cover the drill or driver types that we need.
Oil pulse impact drivers is one example.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1571
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2019, 07:30 AM »
@Cheese you don’t need to convince me!  I think the OP might need a little push though.   [wink]
-Raj

Offline elfick

  • Posts: 528
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2019, 05:12 PM »
So, other than masonry, is there something the PDC can do that the C/T18 can't? Or something that it can do significantly better?

I'm hopping in on this conversation because I've been taking inventory and I'm thinking about selling my T15/TI15 and getting a C18 or PDC (to standardize on 18v batteries).

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2597
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #41 on: May 16, 2019, 10:16 PM »
Pdc light concrete or masonry. C18 has offset chuck for corners or inside edges. PDC is faster with 4 speed gearbox and more torque. C18 is lighter and great at furniture and cabinets.

Offline Tim3100

  • Posts: 6
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2019, 04:11 AM »
To the OP, you're probably not in The Netherlands but if you're close, the T18 is on sale right now with 2 3.1V Bluetooth enabled batteries, a fast charger and a systainer for 250 ex VAT at bouwmaat.nl
No attachments though, but a better price than I've seen anywhere else except for bare body versions.
Thanks for the hint, but I unfortunately don‘t have access to this offer.

@Cheese you don’t need to convince me!  I think the OP might need a little push though.   [wink]

True [smile] I‘m now certain to go with a corded impact drill and continue to use my 12V Bosch. The T/C 18 will probably fill the gap perfectly. I’m not entirely sure on the size of the gap: how many tasks in my home will I have which cannot smoothly be solved with one of the two (12V, impact drill), how often is it useful to have several tools mounted in parallel. But you gave some good examples and therefore I‘m convinced it is worth the investment.

I‘ll report here about the many instances I loved that I have the additional C/T 18 some time in the future.  [smile]

Edit: interestingly, my girlfriend came to a different conclusion after reading this thread (she was impressed from all the detailed and helpful replies). She would go for an additional CXS to the Bosch 12V instead of the T18. Hm...
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 04:47 AM by Tim3100 »

Online Reed Hoyer

  • Posts: 27
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2019, 06:24 AM »
Thanks for the hint, but I unfortunately don‘t have access to this offer.


I was in my local Woodcraft yesterday (Michigan) and they had what appeared to be 2 T18 kits (the $600+ versions) for clearance at $530. You might check around.

Edit: interestingly, my girlfriend came to a different conclusion after reading this thread (she was impressed from all the detailed and helpful replies). She would go for an additional CXS to the Bosch 12V instead of the T18. Hm...

If you haven't handled a Bosch Flexclick 12v and its attachments I think you're really doing yourself a disservice. It is a very nicely made tool and you may find that, without having to add another battery to your lineup and without spending very much, you can add quite a bit of function to your setup.

Offline Chinski

  • Posts: 48
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2019, 07:02 AM »

Edit: interestingly, my girlfriend came to a different conclusion after reading this thread (she was impressed from all the detailed and helpful replies). She would go for an additional CXS to the Bosch 12V instead of the T18. Hm...

That's pretty incredible on several levels.  You should probably marry her. 

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1571
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2019, 07:34 AM »
@Tim3100 The repetitive tasks Cheese describes come along every once in a while, so it is helpful to have at least 2 drills.  The CXS may eventually find its way into your stable.  I didn’t care much for it initially, but like so many others, I grew to love it’s lightness, it’s ability to sneak into tight quarters and the power (considering it looks like a kids toy).

The T18 is fantastic and should cover 90% of your needs and compliment the Bosch nicely.  The ability to modulate the trigger is fantastic on Festool drills, something I haven’t found other manufacturers pay enough attention to.  And as mentioned above they are discounting the kits as they transition to new kits with Bluetooth batteries, so you have an opportunity to save a few bucks.
-Raj

Offline jeffm13

  • Posts: 20
Re: Most versatile Drill
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2019, 12:21 AM »
Interestingly, my girlfriend came to a different conclusion after reading this thread (she was impressed from all the detailed and helpful replies). She would go for an additional CXS to the Bosch 12V instead of the T18. Hm...

Really then the only solution is to buy both the CXS and the C/T18
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