Author Topic: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?  (Read 10516 times)

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Offline yetihunter

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2017, 06:46 PM »
Hard to say.  They have acknowledged there was a problem (hint, hint) and have said they are adjusting manufacturing but......................................

There are still a lot of saws mis-aligned out in the market.  So it's quite possible you get one that needs adjustment.  Might be a while before we can tell if the prob. was really fixed or just lip service.

The good news is the issue can be fixed relatively easily out in the field.   I haven't heard any reports on whether the battery version suffers from the problem.

Hmmm, if it's just an assembly whoopsie that needs re-alignment vs a permanent defect, I may not even be concerned.

I haven't cut anything with one, but I've manhandled the corded and cordless versions on display...back and forth between others and the Kapex.   The only real dealbreaker for me is that only the Kapex has the nicely visible bevel readout (which one would think everyone else would be doing) and that the new Makita's fences have to be removed and then tossed into the bin.   Otherwise, it's really nice.

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Offline Getmaverick

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2017, 07:32 PM »
Unless you do a lot of compound miters the bevel readout is not that important.
As a remodeler I use that function maybe 10% of the time.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2017, 03:40 AM »
I do a lot of mitre and bevel cuts and accuracy is really important for me.

If I am starting a new "heirloom" piece (as I am doing right now) I give the Kapex a quick check to make sure that it is spot on. I have only had to adjust it about 3 or 4 times in the 6 years that I have had it. For bevel checking I use an Angle Cube from iGaging. I set it at zero on the saw bed and then attach it to the saw blade as I alter the bevel angle. I have never had to make an adjustment to the bevel stops. My 4 adjustments have all been to the mitre setting and have taken just a couple of minutes.

Peter

Offline yetihunter

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2017, 03:51 AM »
Unless you do a lot of compound miters the bevel readout is not that important.
As a remodeler I use that function maybe 10% of the time.

Solid point. 

Offline oneeyesquare

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2017, 09:36 AM »
Reports on the battery powered Makita have been overwhelmingly positive. I suspect it was an assembly issue. I have; as of yet, taken the time to adjust my corded model.  Instead, for sliding miters/bevels I grab the Kapex from the van. Overall, I prefer the Makita for daily use. Been using Kapex since late 2015. Most accurate saw ever, but hate the handle/safety switch and the constant grabbing/flinging offcuts (which is an absolute no-no when I'm in at final running shoe, cabinet base, etc)
 Also, there is a 12" Makita version slated for early 2018 release. I'd buy a second battery version, if I knew Makita was going to offer an ac adaptor.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2017, 09:53 AM »
I have a Kapex and would buy one again.  It was noted above by others that the bevel adjustment was a selling point.  It was also noted that for one poster that it was only helpful for compound miters.  Like that poster I rarely cut compound miters, BUT I do regularly cut wood that exceeds the height limitation of ANY mitersaw where you stand the workpiece upright against the fence and then try to cut a simple miter (just rotating the saw in the horizontal plane.)

The ability to cut inside and outside miters on 6" baseboard for example using the easy to use bevel gauge is a valid consideration in my mind.

Peter

Offline Getmaverick

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2017, 10:09 AM »
Any base I do over 5 1/4 is usually 2 pieces. The Makita will cut 5 1/4 upright on the fence. As with any tool you need to determine your needs for it and purchase accordingly.

Offline antss

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2017, 11:42 AM »
Quote
I'd buy a second battery version, if I knew Makita was going to offer an ac adaptor.

It would seem a logical extension.   Greenlee's charger fits , but it's pretty anemic so I doubt it'll run a saw.   Los Gatos makes an AC adapter for Makita.  It's big and clunky though.

Offline yetihunter

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2017, 04:23 AM »
I have a Kapex and would buy one again.  It was noted above by others that the bevel adjustment was a selling point.  It was also noted that for one poster that it was only helpful for compound miters.  Like that poster I rarely cut compound miters, BUT I do regularly cut wood that exceeds the height limitation of ANY mitersaw where you stand the workpiece upright against the fence and then try to cut a simple miter (just rotating the saw in the horizontal plane.)

The ability to cut inside and outside miters on 6" baseboard for example using the easy to use bevel gauge is a valid consideration in my mind.

Peter

^ This

Took a minute to translate from trim carpenter speak to woodwork speak, but Peter hit the nail on the head when it comes to what my needs are.

If between the stop and ug extension and bevel the kapex can give me perfect
replicable cuts...out of the box...








Offline Getmaverick

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2017, 10:24 AM »
I have never used a Kapex. I did recently purchase a Makita XSL06PT. I have one word for this saw "Butter".
This is what its like using it. Extremely smooth from start to finish, even with original blade.
I installed a mantel at my sisters and cut through 12/4 oak that was 10" wide with zero hesitation. All my miters have been dead on accurate. I cant imagine a Kapex would be a $1000.00 better.

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2017, 11:25 AM »
I own a Kapex. The reason I bought is because since mine is shop bound, Im set it on a Kapex MFT and can set it right next to the wall. The way the arms are is they dont slide with the saw so I can set it as close to the wall as possible and not have to deal with the arms going back hitting the wall if this makes sense. Plud its apretty darned good saw IMO

Offline Ajax

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2017, 11:50 AM »
I'm a serious hobbyist furniture maker with a full workshop including a large sliding table saw.  I use a Dewalt 14" radial arm saw as my cut off station.  I don't currently own a miter saw.  I put all new base and casings in the current house and I just bought a dewalt 14" compound miter saw, used it, and then sold on Craig's list.  Net cost was about $40.  We bought a new house and I will be installing A LOT of wainscotting.  Maybe 250 linear feet.  It will be MDF and moldings.  I will rip all the parts to width in the shop which is just a mile away and I will be able to cut a ton of stuff in the shop, but I need a sliding compound miter saw.  And, I hate how loud and coarse most sound.

The Kapex is compelling as it's compact, relatively light weight with nice accessories.  But there have been so many issues reported.  Would you spring for a Kapex?  I have three daughters who will be buying houses over the next few years and expect to be working a lot on them so long term I will need a miter saw.

I'm a hobbyist like you and I've made furniture.  Everytime I use my Kapex I fall in love all over again with the thing.  It's one of the best engineered tools I own.  But like all love affairs there is the potential for heartbreak.  I'm waiting for the thing to go kaput on me.
Kapex KS120, MFT/3, TS55 REQ, LS130, RTS400, RO90 DX FEQ, D90 Assortment, RO150 REQ, ETS 150/3, PRO5, D150 Assortment, DF 500, Domino 4/5/8/10 Assortment, DF700 XL, Domino 12/14 Assortment,  CT Midi, MFT/3, Kapex MFT, 2 x SysRoll

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2017, 01:20 PM »

  But like all love affairs there is the potential for heartbreak.  I'm waiting for the thing to go kaput on me.

This is exactly how I feel about my Kapex, pretty much  a love-worry affair.

I have no complaints about the Kapex, but if I had to start again, Kapex would not be my choice of mitre saw given the worries about its motor. It is less about money but more about reliability -- the same consideration I use when buying new cars.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2017, 01:46 PM »
People should stop getting worked up about their Kapex saws. Mine has been used daily for over 6 years with no problems whatsoever. I no more worry about the Kapex than I do about crossing the road.

Get a life - enjoy your Kapex !

Peter

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2017, 02:45 PM »
Not sure if mine (110V) is as robust as yours (220V, I suppose), but I sure wish so (no reason not to!).

It is close to three years old, approaching the end of warranty. If it were already 6 or 7 years old (or if Festool offered me a free extended warranty for, say, two to three more years), I might feel differently.

« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 02:47 PM by ChuckM »

Offline ProCarpenterRVA

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2017, 02:48 PM »
People should stop getting worked up about their Kapex saws. Mine has been used daily for over 6 years with no problems whatsoever. I no more worry about the Kapex than I do about crossing the road.

Get a life - enjoy your Kapex !

Peter
I'm with Peter on this one, it's a well engineered machine. Mine was bought as reconditioned. I use it daily, with heavy use for hours at a time several days a week, and I expect it to last years.

I've had Makita, Hitachi, Porter Cable Saw buck, Radial arm saws. I have a Dewalt DW 708 that is approximately 25 years old, and a Dewalt 1707 German 8-1/2" saw that's still used regularly, which was bought in 1982 if I remember correctly. That's 35 years! They've both had belts, brushes, bearings, cords, cutting inserts, fences, guards and springs REPLACED. I'm looking for a battery operated miter saw and Dewalt is on the short list... So, all this is to say I'm not a Festool fanboy... I've owned and used a lot of different brands.

Over the years I have been surprised by the longevity of my power tools, but I do try to use my air compressor to blow the dust out periodically, change the brushes, etc. I've bought tons of reconditioned Dewalt tools and they last. I've had a few early failures, but not much.

IMHO If there were a brand of tool that could be regarded as superior in almost every respect, it would be Festool.

Just buy a new one, if you aren't convinced, you can get a full return within 30 days, or sell it after that period and recoup almost all of your purchase price.

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Offline ericvancronk

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #46 on: December 23, 2017, 03:20 PM »
“ I've had Makita, Hitachi, Porter Cable Saw buck, Radial arm saws. I have a Dewalt DW 708 that is approximately 25 years old, and a Dewalt 1707 German 8-1/2" saw that's still used regularly, which was bought in 1982 if I remember correctly. That's 35 years! They've both had belts, brushes, bearings, cords, cutting inserts, fences, guards and springs REPLACED. I'm looking for a battery operated miter saw and Dewalt is on the short list... So, all this is to say I'm not a Festool fanboy... I've owned and used a lot of different brands.

Over the years I have been surprised by the longevity of my power tools, but I do try to use my air compressor to blow the dust out periodically, change the brushes, etc. I've bought tons of reconditioned Dewalt tools and they last. I've had a few early failures, but not much. “

All the more reason for Festool to offer a longer warranty period for a product that has been proven unreliable because of motor failures. Why the company doesn’t double the warranty period out of good faith speaks volumes for their personal faith in the longevity of their miter saw. If a $200 yellow saw can last 35 years on the same motor - Festool should be able to survive 6 years at $1,500.

“IMHO If there were a brand of tool that could be regarded as superior in almost every respect, it would be Festool.”

Again, Festool should back it up with a longer warranty.

“Just buy a new one, if you aren't convinced, you can get a full return within 30 days, or sell it after that period and recoup almost all of your purchase price.”

Because of the infamous reliability issues of the Kapex, people are hesitant to purchase used and that hurts the resale value.

I will probably buy one before the end of the year (year-end tool purchases) however, I can realistically only count on 3 years of service from the Kapex. Anything after is a bonus I suppose.

Side note: I just picked up the Makita 36V slider - it’s awesome. Unfortunately I need a cord for the CT36.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 03:23 PM by ericvancronk »

Offline yetihunter

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2017, 11:03 PM »
People should stop getting worked up about their Kapex saws. Mine has been used daily for over 6 years with no problems whatsoever. I no more worry about the Kapex than I do about crossing the road.

Get a life - enjoy your Kapex !

Peter


Peter, are you still using the incra stop/fence with your Kapex?
I'm curious if you've had any troubles.  I had the miter express on my tablesaw, which quickly began to stress and flex and want to seperate.
I removed the sled part and it's now just the miter fence.
I then added the longer fence because the extension proved to be very unsturdy/unreliable.
By then I noticed all of the lateral flex in the pivot stop...and then I finally noticed that everything on it needs to be shimmed..🤣
All kind of silly that I bothered, really, considering I don't even like their unique stop system. 😁


My tablesaw is all squared up perfectly (to my pleasant surprise) thanks to
choosing one of the few 110v models with cabinet mounted trunions and
choosing to setup through assembly.  Thus, I could make a perfectly accurate crosscut sled and throw mitering abilities into it; alas, I didn't come into woodworking to actually woodwork, I came into it as an excuse to blow my income on cool tools. 🤗

I'm stuck on 110v (I rent my shop), and I kind of really like having the tablesaw
on wheels and not having a $1200+ crosscut slide hanging off the end.  So,
it is, I really want a fancy miter saw because I'm lazy.

« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 11:05 PM by yetihunter »

Offline aloysius

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #48 on: December 24, 2017, 12:14 AM »
For customers to continue purchasing dodgy 110v Kapex saws (or anybody's tool of any type or variety for that matter) given what is known already about their systemic reliability problems is a flawed strategy.

This just encourages the company to continue doing absolutely nothing whatsoever to remedy the situation.  You'll end up with a tool that will have a perpetual question-mark over its medium-term lifespan, which could potentially become near worthless if or when the company eventually decides to actually DO something about this flawed product & newer, improved & more viable replacements become available.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #49 on: December 24, 2017, 02:30 AM »


Peter, are you still using the incra stop/fence with your Kapex?
I'm curious if you've had any troubles.  I had the miter express on my tablesaw, which quickly began to stress and flex and want to seperate.
.....

It is still there and I use it all the time. The only thing to watch is that the scales must not be moved or, put another way, every now and again just check that they are okay.

I use it as a stop and rely entirely on the fence of the Kapex for registration.

Peter

Offline justinh

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #50 on: December 24, 2017, 10:24 AM »
Its just the unrefined nature of the Dewalt that bugs me.  Super loud annoying pitch sound, no soft start so the saw jumps when you start.   But it's way cheaper.

DeWalt saws lack bells and whistles but they are very accurate when set up and are work horses. They are also very easy set up and adjust which isn't the case with many saws. I'm a finish carpenter and run a DW716 every day.  The blade makes all the difference on any saw.  Put a good one on the saw and it's like you're using a different tool. I have a Royce Ayr 80t full kerf industrial blade on it right now. The saw doesn't scream either when running well balanced and tensioned blades

If you are looking for a scms see if you can find one of the older Hitachi C10FSH saws.  Lacks the DC of a Kapex but is an all around better saw.

Offline Getmaverick

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #51 on: December 24, 2017, 12:24 PM »
"Side note: I just picked up the Makita 36V slider - it’s awesome. Unfortunately I need a cord for the CT36. "

Not with the MAXSYS Remote.

Offline rst

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2017, 01:50 PM »
Maverick, are you aware that Makita is supposed to be releasing a corded/18V vac is 2018?  Won't need a cord then.

Offline Getmaverick

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #53 on: December 24, 2017, 02:32 PM »
Maverick, are you aware that Makita is supposed to be releasing a corded/18V vac is 2018?  Won't need a cord then.

I see now I have misread the other post. Meaning a cordless vac.
That being said,  the Makita 36V SCMS is not Bluetooth. Will still need a better way to start the vac since it wont be automatic.
I think the only way is to install the MAXSYS to my CT26, unless Makita has adaptors coming out I don't know of.

Offline rst

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #54 on: December 24, 2017, 03:21 PM »
I suspect that Makita will have a similar system to what Milwuakee is coming out with where there will be a transmitter available to attach to the hose end to activate the vac.

Offline Jaybolishes

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #55 on: December 24, 2017, 06:24 PM »
Aside from the Kapex being overpriced by $500, the fact it's only a 10" blade, and the fact you will be lucky to have your saws motor not burn up in a newer model after three years, I can't say I would do it. Boy I'd like to buy one, but three of the five builders I know who had one had many issues. Also it's  worthwhile to get a 12" bladed saw.  So many times I find myself wishing I brought my 12" Bosch Axial to a job instead of my 10" Makita. Sometimes a large crosscut capacity with a large cut depth are handy to have.  The only drawback with the axial is it's heavy.  The dust collection with a kapex dust shroud installed on it  is amazing.  Slower you cut, more dust you can expect to collect and it's over 90 percent of it which is comparable to the Kapex.  If you just dive the blade into the wood you can collect only about 60 percent.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 06:32 PM by Jaybolishes »

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #56 on: December 24, 2017, 07:15 PM »
The dust collection with a kapex dust shroud installed on it  is amazing. 

You outfitted a non-Kapex with a Kapex dust hood?

Never thought of that. I have a spare Kapex dust hood; I will keep it if one day I do go for a different mitre saw.

Offline yetihunter

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #57 on: December 26, 2017, 12:33 AM »


Peter, are you still using the incra stop/fence with your Kapex?
I'm curious if you've had any troubles.  I had the miter express on my tablesaw, which quickly began to stress and flex and want to seperate.
.....

It is still there and I use it all the time. The only thing to watch is that the scales must not be moved or, put another way, every now and again just check that they are okay.

I use it as a stop and rely entirely on the fence of the Kapex for registration.

Peter

I realised before you replied that your setup is probably perfectly square. 😁
The fence and bracket are spot on.
It's when the parts make up the miter fence products that you need to fiddle with it.
The parts begin to fight with each other.
Generally, it doesn't matter, but when cutting 5" thick timbers, doing the old cut one side and flip the work, one obviously would appreciate 90 degrees. 


Offline yetihunter

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #58 on: December 26, 2017, 12:38 AM »
Aside from the Kapex being overpriced by $500, the fact it's only a 10" blade, and the fact you will be lucky to have your saws motor not burn up in a newer model after three years, I can't say I would do it. Boy I'd like to buy one, but three of the five builders I know who had one had many issues. Also it's  worthwhile to get a 12" bladed saw.  So many times I find myself wishing I brought my 12" Bosch Axial to a job instead of my 10" Makita. Sometimes a large crosscut capacity with a large cut depth are handy to have.  The only drawback with the axial is it's heavy.  The dust collection with a kapex dust shroud installed on it  is amazing.  Slower you cut, more dust you can expect to collect and it's over 90 percent of it which is comparable to the Kapex.  If you just dive the blade into the wood you can collect only about 60 percent.

I've played with a lot of unplugged Bosch glides and was impressed.
I'm getting analysis paralysis.

Offline aloysius

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #59 on: December 26, 2017, 02:59 AM »
Yet in some respects the Bosch glide saw isn't really as good as a Kapex 120.  I've had both.  Yes the Bosch capacity is bigger (but not a whole lot), but dust capture is at best "average" & the controls (esp the bevel control) aren't quite as nice either.  With one distinct exception:  the horizontal handle on the Bosch & the mechanical plunge lock/safety lever are streets ahead ergonomically in comparison to the Festo/ol's rather awkward (to me) elongated vertical arrangement.

But man oh man, that Bosch is a heavy mother.  All but too heavy in fact for my aged bones to manhandle into & out of tight doorways & stairwells.  When fitted to its (heavy) gravity rise stand, it at least can be wheeled around, but the combined bulk & mass makes it all but impossible for me to hoist into & out of utility vehicles.  It can be rapidly unclipped from the carriage chassis, but that rather defeats its integrated purpose somewhat, plus it's a bit finicky to realign back onto the mounting rails again.

I've also found that those pneumatic tyres have an extremely irritating propensity to leak.  Solid rubber would've been a wiser choice here, & the whole assembly is only just able to fit through standard doorways without marking if you're careful.  I'd consider the Bosch GCM to perhaps be a better candidate for fixed installations, & the Kapex much more suited to portability.  Festool at least provide more handy grips for manhandling the Kapex around that appear to be missing from the GCM GDL.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...