Author Topic: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?  (Read 9397 times)

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Offline Joe Jensen

  • Posts: 149
I'm a serious hobbyist furniture maker with a full workshop including a large sliding table saw.  I use a Dewalt 14" radial arm saw as my cut off station.  I don't currently own a miter saw.  I put all new base and casings in the current house and I just bought a dewalt 14" compound miter saw, used it, and then sold on Craig's list.  Net cost was about $40.  We bought a new house and I will be installing A LOT of wainscotting.  Maybe 250 linear feet.  It will be MDF and moldings.  I will rip all the parts to width in the shop which is just a mile away and I will be able to cut a ton of stuff in the shop, but I need a sliding compound miter saw.  And, I hate how loud and coarse most sound.

The Kapex is compelling as it's compact, relatively light weight with nice accessories.  But there have been so many issues reported.  Would you spring for a Kapex?  I have three daughters who will be buying houses over the next few years and expect to be working a lot on them so long term I will need a miter saw.

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Offline CrpntrFreak

  • Posts: 19
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2017, 10:37 PM »
Over and over and over again. It is not worth the price, but it absolutely IS THE BEST miter saw on the market. However, I use my saw to make me money. So I imagine I could justify the cost a little better. I have achieved great results from other saws, but the steps to get there are much less with the Kapex.

Offline Joe Jensen

  • Posts: 149
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2017, 10:45 PM »
looks like I could buy new, use for a month, and resell of maybe $100-200 less.  Might be what I do

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 10:54 PM »
Lots , repeat , lots of other mitersaw will do what a kapex will do at a fraction of the cost.   And they don't have even the slightest reputation of burning up motors.

If you're moving from jobsite to jobsite weekly or daily , then the lighter weight and the UG cart might be worth the added expense and risk.  The less portability you need the less compelling the argument.

The other selling points like dust collection and ease of settings are now matched by other makes. Ones that use standard sized blades you can get anywhere.   Today.

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2017, 10:56 PM »
Yes.

Tom

Offline Joe Jensen

  • Posts: 149
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2017, 11:06 PM »
Its just the unrefined nature of the Dewalt that bugs me.  Super loud annoying pitch sound, no soft start so the saw jumps when you start.   But it's way cheaper.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2017, 11:08 PM »
Makita, Milwaukee and Hitachi all make saws that will give accurate cuts with a good blade.

Offline CrpntrFreak

  • Posts: 19
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2017, 11:13 PM »
DeWalt, Hitachi, and Bosch, I have used them extensively and owned them also. No they CAN NOT cut like the Kapex. The Bosch came close. So either I have bought many duds or I happen to have the very best Kapex ever made. Once again, I have achieved great results from other brands but the steps to get there are much less with the Kapex.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 566
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2017, 11:49 PM »
Personally, I'm waiting for the KS60 to come to the states so that I can inevitably buy a KS120.  [big grin]



Offline McNally Family

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2017, 11:49 PM »
@CrpntrFreak
 
My mistake.  When I typed my response, I was thinking you were the original poster.  I am old, sorry!

Having said that, I do think the OP has made up his mind to get the Kapex.....
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Offline Joe Jensen

  • Posts: 149
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2017, 12:47 AM »
I actually have  Dewalt on backorder from Amazon.  I'll probably cheap out but I'll check out the Kapex again for the 50th time..OP...Joe

Offline nms

  • Posts: 16
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2017, 03:12 AM »
The DeWalt 780 is big, but should do you just fine.

I wouldn't consider one myself due to the size & weight (as portability ease is crucial for me), but if not for my circumstances I might.

The Makita 10" LS1019 would be my second choice to a Kapex, and first choice if considering price.

I gave up and vetoed a miter saw purchase though. I'm about to do 3 weeks of work abroad without one, using my TS55, MFT, & bench dogs instead! No crown molding in my line of work.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 03:17 AM by nms »

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 834
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2017, 05:42 AM »
Kapex 120 (with laser), UG cart with wings, autostart VAC - IMHO best combination for onsite work: moved to workspace, setup and adjusted in <5 minutes (given reasonable distance to the van), easy to use, precise and clean, fun to work with.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 264
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2017, 07:00 AM »
You say you've an pretty big old DeWalt Radial Arm Saw in your stable.  Apart from the lack of easy portability, it's probably one of the best, most accurate, biggest capacity & quietest compoundmiter saws available.  Why look elsewhere?

It won't cost you a red cent,  & it will still be going strong, cutting quietly & accurately when all alternatives are but a distant memory & your daughters have children (or even grandchildren) of their own!
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2017, 08:02 AM »
1. in the shop which is just a mile away and I will be able to cut a ton of stuff in the shop, but I need a sliding compound miter saw. 

2. radial isn't exactly fast and easy to set for compound cuts.

3. Daughter's house is further away.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 575
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2017, 08:55 AM »
Get the Dewalt Cordless Compound Mitre saw (DHS790T2). Works great and an adapter to switch to 120V is included in the box. It's currently cheaper than the version that does not include the AC adapter. Home Depot has it for $699.99. I have had mine since the summer and am 100% happy with it. I also have a Kapex, but that never the leaves the shop. I don't see any noticeable cut difference between the two.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 575
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2017, 08:58 AM »
Lots , repeat , lots of other mitersaw will do what a kapex will do at a fraction of the cost.   And they don't have even the slightest reputation of burning up motors.

If you're moving from jobsite to jobsite weekly or daily , then the lighter weight and the UG cart might be worth the added expense and risk.  The less portability you need the less compelling the argument.

The other selling points like dust collection and ease of settings are now matched by other makes. Ones that use standard sized blades you can get anywhere.   Today.

I have the UG cart and it is less than desirable. It's an indoor only item and is very flimsily built. I believe you can buy a Bosch or Dewalt stand that are universal and much more durable.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 264
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2017, 08:59 AM »
If it's portability you're after, then the sheer versatility of smaller SCMS certainly take a lot of beating.  Esp. the cordless variety.  There's excellent examples around now from the likes of DeWalt & Makita which come highly regarded & favourably reviewed.

I personally despised my own Kapex, which I considered an unreliable, expensive white elephant.  I replaced mine a decade or so ago with a Bosch glide saw, which is was (is) bigger, heavier, more capacious & reliable.  I also have an old 10" DeWalt RAS, which is still used.  But my current "darling" is a very compact, featherlight (in comparison), Metabo 8 1/2" cordless SCMS.  For me it's super portable (read one-hand carry), relatively powerful (for a mere 18v & 7.0AH) & capacious (2 1/2" x 12 1/2").  Plus it was remarkably inexpensive.  A mere AU $270 as a naked tool!  The Kapex, in today's prices, would be SEVEN TIMES more! 

I'm not as young or fit as I once was, & the sheer convenience & portability of contemporary cordless SCMS that use the latest, far superior "supercell" battery technologies makes a just about irrefutably persuasive argument in my opinion & for my own personal circumstances.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 198
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2017, 09:06 AM »
I would not hesitate to buy an older used Kapex on a UG cart with extensions.  I have the strong impression that most of the failures reported here have been on recent (last few years) Kapexes and I've never seen an oldie reported as letting out the smoke.  I have one approaching 9 years old that I bought used with UG for just over the price of the new Kapex.  With the recent reported troubles I suspect used Kapex prices are suffering some.  The production date is on the saw label and I would look for pre-2013 builds...mine is a 2009.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 346
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2017, 11:50 AM »
Its just the unrefined nature of the Dewalt that bugs me.  Super loud annoying pitch sound, no soft start so the saw jumps when you start.   But it's way cheaper.

It depends on the version of Dewalt you get.  The 780 is pretty solid.  It’s actually the simplicity of the Dewalt that makes it more accurate than many of the competing miters saws on the market.  They don’t put a lot of toys and complicated features on the Dewalts.

With the expedition of Makita, not many of the other Miter saws review as well as the 780.
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Offline VW MICK

  • Posts: 868
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2017, 01:59 PM »
I really like my kapex

Mick

Offline johnbro

  • Posts: 128
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2017, 02:54 PM »
I really like my Kapex. Why not get one and try it on your trim project? Take it back if you don't find it superior to anything else you've used.
TS 55, 3 guide rails, MFT 1080, RO 150, ETS 150/3, MFK 700, OF 1400, Kapex 120, Domino 500, CT 26

Offline BMH

  • Posts: 365
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2017, 08:11 PM »
Kapex and UG stand is the way to go and then sell it. Not a professional but have been using mine on all types of projects and it saves me time. I have the UG wings calibrated to my tape measure and never have to waste time marking my pieces probably the best video series on how to be efficient

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2017, 10:20 PM »
I wouldn't hesitate on a KAPEX, though in my market they're 240V and there have been very few issues reported involving 240V machines.

As stated by some others, the flexibility and portability of the KAPEX on the UG stand with the extensions is hard to beat [wink]

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2017, 11:24 PM »
yup

Offline Master Carpenter

  • Posts: 85
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2017, 11:30 PM »
Short answer No. unless you absolutely need the great dust collection of the kapex, buy another miter saw. And yes I own a kapex, but my Bosch 12" slider is a superior saw.
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Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2017, 01:25 AM »
I'm a serious hobbyist furniture maker with a full workshop including a large sliding table saw.  I use a Dewalt 14" radial arm saw as my cut off station.  I don't currently own a miter saw.  I put all new base and casings in the current house and I just bought a dewalt 14" compound miter saw, used it, and then sold on Craig's list.  Net cost was about $40.  We bought a new house and I will be installing A LOT of wainscotting.  Maybe 250 linear feet.  It will be MDF and moldings.  I will rip all the parts to width in the shop which is just a mile away and I will be able to cut a ton of stuff in the shop, but I need a sliding compound miter saw.  And, I hate how loud and coarse most sound.

The Kapex is compelling as it's compact, relatively light weight with nice accessories.  But there have been so many issues reported.  Would you spring for a Kapex?  I have three daughters who will be buying houses over the next few years and expect to be working a lot on them so long term I will need a miter saw.

Go for it - you will not be disappointed. Your situation is similar to mine a few years ago when I bought my Kapex. My then aging Dewalt RAS was on the way out and I spent 3 months looking at a replacement. Despite, at that time, it being the most expensive SCMS on the market it won the debate hands down.

I have not looked back and now cut mainly hard wood (oak, elm and mahogany), some man made board pieces but also copper, brass and aluminium.

The KS120 was my first Festool purchase and was what really got me into my subsequent purchases.

Peter

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 346
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2017, 01:42 AM »
Short answer No. unless you absolutely need the great dust collection of the kapex, buy another miter saw. And yes I own a kapex, but my Bosch 12" slider is a superior saw.

The Kapex is the best designed Miter Saw but it’s reliability issues have made it a bit of dice roll unless your business can write off the cost of purchasing a Kapex over 3-years. 

Makita has done a lot of great things with their miter saw that make it a compelling Kapex alternative for anyone doing trim work.
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Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 566
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2017, 08:07 AM »
Have Makita sorted out the LS1019L's issues yet?

 

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2017, 06:02 PM »
Hard to say.  They have acknowledged there was a problem (hint, hint) and have said they are adjusting manufacturing but......................................

There are still a lot of saws mis-aligned out in the market.  So it's quite possible you get one that needs adjustment.  Might be a while before we can tell if the prob. was really fixed or just lip service.

The good news is the issue can be fixed relatively easily out in the field.   I haven't heard any reports on whether the battery version suffers from the problem.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 566
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2017, 06:46 PM »
Hard to say.  They have acknowledged there was a problem (hint, hint) and have said they are adjusting manufacturing but......................................

There are still a lot of saws mis-aligned out in the market.  So it's quite possible you get one that needs adjustment.  Might be a while before we can tell if the prob. was really fixed or just lip service.

The good news is the issue can be fixed relatively easily out in the field.   I haven't heard any reports on whether the battery version suffers from the problem.

Hmmm, if it's just an assembly whoopsie that needs re-alignment vs a permanent defect, I may not even be concerned.

I haven't cut anything with one, but I've manhandled the corded and cordless versions on display...back and forth between others and the Kapex.   The only real dealbreaker for me is that only the Kapex has the nicely visible bevel readout (which one would think everyone else would be doing) and that the new Makita's fences have to be removed and then tossed into the bin.   Otherwise, it's really nice.

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Offline Getmaverick

  • Posts: 122
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2017, 07:32 PM »
Unless you do a lot of compound miters the bevel readout is not that important.
As a remodeler I use that function maybe 10% of the time.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2017, 03:40 AM »
I do a lot of mitre and bevel cuts and accuracy is really important for me.

If I am starting a new "heirloom" piece (as I am doing right now) I give the Kapex a quick check to make sure that it is spot on. I have only had to adjust it about 3 or 4 times in the 6 years that I have had it. For bevel checking I use an Angle Cube from iGaging. I set it at zero on the saw bed and then attach it to the saw blade as I alter the bevel angle. I have never had to make an adjustment to the bevel stops. My 4 adjustments have all been to the mitre setting and have taken just a couple of minutes.

Peter

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 566
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2017, 03:51 AM »
Unless you do a lot of compound miters the bevel readout is not that important.
As a remodeler I use that function maybe 10% of the time.

Solid point. 

Offline oneeyesquare

  • Posts: 41
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2017, 09:36 AM »
Reports on the battery powered Makita have been overwhelmingly positive. I suspect it was an assembly issue. I have; as of yet, taken the time to adjust my corded model.  Instead, for sliding miters/bevels I grab the Kapex from the van. Overall, I prefer the Makita for daily use. Been using Kapex since late 2015. Most accurate saw ever, but hate the handle/safety switch and the constant grabbing/flinging offcuts (which is an absolute no-no when I'm in at final running shoe, cabinet base, etc)
 Also, there is a 12" Makita version slated for early 2018 release. I'd buy a second battery version, if I knew Makita was going to offer an ac adaptor.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2017, 09:53 AM »
I have a Kapex and would buy one again.  It was noted above by others that the bevel adjustment was a selling point.  It was also noted that for one poster that it was only helpful for compound miters.  Like that poster I rarely cut compound miters, BUT I do regularly cut wood that exceeds the height limitation of ANY mitersaw where you stand the workpiece upright against the fence and then try to cut a simple miter (just rotating the saw in the horizontal plane.)

The ability to cut inside and outside miters on 6" baseboard for example using the easy to use bevel gauge is a valid consideration in my mind.

Peter

Offline Getmaverick

  • Posts: 122
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2017, 10:09 AM »
Any base I do over 5 1/4 is usually 2 pieces. The Makita will cut 5 1/4 upright on the fence. As with any tool you need to determine your needs for it and purchase accordingly.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2017, 11:42 AM »
Quote
I'd buy a second battery version, if I knew Makita was going to offer an ac adaptor.

It would seem a logical extension.   Greenlee's charger fits , but it's pretty anemic so I doubt it'll run a saw.   Los Gatos makes an AC adapter for Makita.  It's big and clunky though.

Offline yetihunter

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2017, 04:23 AM »
I have a Kapex and would buy one again.  It was noted above by others that the bevel adjustment was a selling point.  It was also noted that for one poster that it was only helpful for compound miters.  Like that poster I rarely cut compound miters, BUT I do regularly cut wood that exceeds the height limitation of ANY mitersaw where you stand the workpiece upright against the fence and then try to cut a simple miter (just rotating the saw in the horizontal plane.)

The ability to cut inside and outside miters on 6" baseboard for example using the easy to use bevel gauge is a valid consideration in my mind.

Peter

^ This

Took a minute to translate from trim carpenter speak to woodwork speak, but Peter hit the nail on the head when it comes to what my needs are.

If between the stop and ug extension and bevel the kapex can give me perfect
replicable cuts...out of the box...








Offline Getmaverick

  • Posts: 122
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2017, 10:24 AM »
I have never used a Kapex. I did recently purchase a Makita XSL06PT. I have one word for this saw "Butter".
This is what its like using it. Extremely smooth from start to finish, even with original blade.
I installed a mantel at my sisters and cut through 12/4 oak that was 10" wide with zero hesitation. All my miters have been dead on accurate. I cant imagine a Kapex would be a $1000.00 better.

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2017, 11:25 AM »
I own a Kapex. The reason I bought is because since mine is shop bound, Im set it on a Kapex MFT and can set it right next to the wall. The way the arms are is they dont slide with the saw so I can set it as close to the wall as possible and not have to deal with the arms going back hitting the wall if this makes sense. Plud its apretty darned good saw IMO

Offline Ajax

  • Posts: 188
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2017, 11:50 AM »
I'm a serious hobbyist furniture maker with a full workshop including a large sliding table saw.  I use a Dewalt 14" radial arm saw as my cut off station.  I don't currently own a miter saw.  I put all new base and casings in the current house and I just bought a dewalt 14" compound miter saw, used it, and then sold on Craig's list.  Net cost was about $40.  We bought a new house and I will be installing A LOT of wainscotting.  Maybe 250 linear feet.  It will be MDF and moldings.  I will rip all the parts to width in the shop which is just a mile away and I will be able to cut a ton of stuff in the shop, but I need a sliding compound miter saw.  And, I hate how loud and coarse most sound.

The Kapex is compelling as it's compact, relatively light weight with nice accessories.  But there have been so many issues reported.  Would you spring for a Kapex?  I have three daughters who will be buying houses over the next few years and expect to be working a lot on them so long term I will need a miter saw.

I'm a hobbyist like you and I've made furniture.  Everytime I use my Kapex I fall in love all over again with the thing.  It's one of the best engineered tools I own.  But like all love affairs there is the potential for heartbreak.  I'm waiting for the thing to go kaput on me.
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Offline ChuckM

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2017, 01:20 PM »

  But like all love affairs there is the potential for heartbreak.  I'm waiting for the thing to go kaput on me.

This is exactly how I feel about my Kapex, pretty much  a love-worry affair.

I have no complaints about the Kapex, but if I had to start again, Kapex would not be my choice of mitre saw given the worries about its motor. It is less about money but more about reliability -- the same consideration I use when buying new cars.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2017, 01:46 PM »
People should stop getting worked up about their Kapex saws. Mine has been used daily for over 6 years with no problems whatsoever. I no more worry about the Kapex than I do about crossing the road.

Get a life - enjoy your Kapex !

Peter

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 470
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2017, 02:45 PM »
Not sure if mine (110V) is as robust as yours (220V, I suppose), but I sure wish so (no reason not to!).

It is close to three years old, approaching the end of warranty. If it were already 6 or 7 years old (or if Festool offered me a free extended warranty for, say, two to three more years), I might feel differently.

« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 02:47 PM by ChuckM »

Online ProCarpenterRVA

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2017, 02:48 PM »
People should stop getting worked up about their Kapex saws. Mine has been used daily for over 6 years with no problems whatsoever. I no more worry about the Kapex than I do about crossing the road.

Get a life - enjoy your Kapex !

Peter
I'm with Peter on this one, it's a well engineered machine. Mine was bought as reconditioned. I use it daily, with heavy use for hours at a time several days a week, and I expect it to last years.

I've had Makita, Hitachi, Porter Cable Saw buck, Radial arm saws. I have a Dewalt DW 708 that is approximately 25 years old, and a Dewalt 1707 German 8-1/2" saw that's still used regularly, which was bought in 1982 if I remember correctly. That's 35 years! They've both had belts, brushes, bearings, cords, cutting inserts, fences, guards and springs REPLACED. I'm looking for a battery operated miter saw and Dewalt is on the short list... So, all this is to say I'm not a Festool fanboy... I've owned and used a lot of different brands.

Over the years I have been surprised by the longevity of my power tools, but I do try to use my air compressor to blow the dust out periodically, change the brushes, etc. I've bought tons of reconditioned Dewalt tools and they last. I've had a few early failures, but not much.

IMHO If there were a brand of tool that could be regarded as superior in almost every respect, it would be Festool.

Just buy a new one, if you aren't convinced, you can get a full return within 30 days, or sell it after that period and recoup almost all of your purchase price.

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Offline ericvancronk

  • Posts: 8
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #46 on: December 23, 2017, 03:20 PM »
“ I've had Makita, Hitachi, Porter Cable Saw buck, Radial arm saws. I have a Dewalt DW 708 that is approximately 25 years old, and a Dewalt 1707 German 8-1/2" saw that's still used regularly, which was bought in 1982 if I remember correctly. That's 35 years! They've both had belts, brushes, bearings, cords, cutting inserts, fences, guards and springs REPLACED. I'm looking for a battery operated miter saw and Dewalt is on the short list... So, all this is to say I'm not a Festool fanboy... I've owned and used a lot of different brands.

Over the years I have been surprised by the longevity of my power tools, but I do try to use my air compressor to blow the dust out periodically, change the brushes, etc. I've bought tons of reconditioned Dewalt tools and they last. I've had a few early failures, but not much. “

All the more reason for Festool to offer a longer warranty period for a product that has been proven unreliable because of motor failures. Why the company doesn’t double the warranty period out of good faith speaks volumes for their personal faith in the longevity of their miter saw. If a $200 yellow saw can last 35 years on the same motor - Festool should be able to survive 6 years at $1,500.

“IMHO If there were a brand of tool that could be regarded as superior in almost every respect, it would be Festool.”

Again, Festool should back it up with a longer warranty.

“Just buy a new one, if you aren't convinced, you can get a full return within 30 days, or sell it after that period and recoup almost all of your purchase price.”

Because of the infamous reliability issues of the Kapex, people are hesitant to purchase used and that hurts the resale value.

I will probably buy one before the end of the year (year-end tool purchases) however, I can realistically only count on 3 years of service from the Kapex. Anything after is a bonus I suppose.

Side note: I just picked up the Makita 36V slider - it’s awesome. Unfortunately I need a cord for the CT36.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 03:23 PM by ericvancronk »

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 566
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2017, 11:03 PM »
People should stop getting worked up about their Kapex saws. Mine has been used daily for over 6 years with no problems whatsoever. I no more worry about the Kapex than I do about crossing the road.

Get a life - enjoy your Kapex !

Peter


Peter, are you still using the incra stop/fence with your Kapex?
I'm curious if you've had any troubles.  I had the miter express on my tablesaw, which quickly began to stress and flex and want to seperate.
I removed the sled part and it's now just the miter fence.
I then added the longer fence because the extension proved to be very unsturdy/unreliable.
By then I noticed all of the lateral flex in the pivot stop...and then I finally noticed that everything on it needs to be shimmed..🤣
All kind of silly that I bothered, really, considering I don't even like their unique stop system. 😁


My tablesaw is all squared up perfectly (to my pleasant surprise) thanks to
choosing one of the few 110v models with cabinet mounted trunions and
choosing to setup through assembly.  Thus, I could make a perfectly accurate crosscut sled and throw mitering abilities into it; alas, I didn't come into woodworking to actually woodwork, I came into it as an excuse to blow my income on cool tools. 🤗

I'm stuck on 110v (I rent my shop), and I kind of really like having the tablesaw
on wheels and not having a $1200+ crosscut slide hanging off the end.  So,
it is, I really want a fancy miter saw because I'm lazy.

« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 11:05 PM by yetihunter »

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 264
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #48 on: December 24, 2017, 12:14 AM »
For customers to continue purchasing dodgy 110v Kapex saws (or anybody's tool of any type or variety for that matter) given what is known already about their systemic reliability problems is a flawed strategy.

This just encourages the company to continue doing absolutely nothing whatsoever to remedy the situation.  You'll end up with a tool that will have a perpetual question-mark over its medium-term lifespan, which could potentially become near worthless if or when the company eventually decides to actually DO something about this flawed product & newer, improved & more viable replacements become available.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #49 on: December 24, 2017, 02:30 AM »


Peter, are you still using the incra stop/fence with your Kapex?
I'm curious if you've had any troubles.  I had the miter express on my tablesaw, which quickly began to stress and flex and want to seperate.
.....

It is still there and I use it all the time. The only thing to watch is that the scales must not be moved or, put another way, every now and again just check that they are okay.

I use it as a stop and rely entirely on the fence of the Kapex for registration.

Peter

Offline justinh

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #50 on: December 24, 2017, 10:24 AM »
Its just the unrefined nature of the Dewalt that bugs me.  Super loud annoying pitch sound, no soft start so the saw jumps when you start.   But it's way cheaper.

DeWalt saws lack bells and whistles but they are very accurate when set up and are work horses. They are also very easy set up and adjust which isn't the case with many saws. I'm a finish carpenter and run a DW716 every day.  The blade makes all the difference on any saw.  Put a good one on the saw and it's like you're using a different tool. I have a Royce Ayr 80t full kerf industrial blade on it right now. The saw doesn't scream either when running well balanced and tensioned blades

If you are looking for a scms see if you can find one of the older Hitachi C10FSH saws.  Lacks the DC of a Kapex but is an all around better saw.

Offline Getmaverick

  • Posts: 122
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #51 on: December 24, 2017, 12:24 PM »
"Side note: I just picked up the Makita 36V slider - it’s awesome. Unfortunately I need a cord for the CT36. "

Not with the MAXSYS Remote.

Offline rst

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2017, 01:50 PM »
Maverick, are you aware that Makita is supposed to be releasing a corded/18V vac is 2018?  Won't need a cord then.

Offline Getmaverick

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #53 on: December 24, 2017, 02:32 PM »
Maverick, are you aware that Makita is supposed to be releasing a corded/18V vac is 2018?  Won't need a cord then.

I see now I have misread the other post. Meaning a cordless vac.
That being said,  the Makita 36V SCMS is not Bluetooth. Will still need a better way to start the vac since it wont be automatic.
I think the only way is to install the MAXSYS to my CT26, unless Makita has adaptors coming out I don't know of.

Offline rst

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #54 on: December 24, 2017, 03:21 PM »
I suspect that Makita will have a similar system to what Milwuakee is coming out with where there will be a transmitter available to attach to the hose end to activate the vac.

Offline Jaybolishes

  • Posts: 366
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #55 on: December 24, 2017, 06:24 PM »
Aside from the Kapex being overpriced by $500, the fact it's only a 10" blade, and the fact you will be lucky to have your saws motor not burn up in a newer model after three years, I can't say I would do it. Boy I'd like to buy one, but three of the five builders I know who had one had many issues. Also it's  worthwhile to get a 12" bladed saw.  So many times I find myself wishing I brought my 12" Bosch Axial to a job instead of my 10" Makita. Sometimes a large crosscut capacity with a large cut depth are handy to have.  The only drawback with the axial is it's heavy.  The dust collection with a kapex dust shroud installed on it  is amazing.  Slower you cut, more dust you can expect to collect and it's over 90 percent of it which is comparable to the Kapex.  If you just dive the blade into the wood you can collect only about 60 percent.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 06:32 PM by Jaybolishes »

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 470
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #56 on: December 24, 2017, 07:15 PM »
The dust collection with a kapex dust shroud installed on it  is amazing. 

You outfitted a non-Kapex with a Kapex dust hood?

Never thought of that. I have a spare Kapex dust hood; I will keep it if one day I do go for a different mitre saw.

Offline yetihunter

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #57 on: December 26, 2017, 12:33 AM »


Peter, are you still using the incra stop/fence with your Kapex?
I'm curious if you've had any troubles.  I had the miter express on my tablesaw, which quickly began to stress and flex and want to seperate.
.....

It is still there and I use it all the time. The only thing to watch is that the scales must not be moved or, put another way, every now and again just check that they are okay.

I use it as a stop and rely entirely on the fence of the Kapex for registration.

Peter

I realised before you replied that your setup is probably perfectly square. 😁
The fence and bracket are spot on.
It's when the parts make up the miter fence products that you need to fiddle with it.
The parts begin to fight with each other.
Generally, it doesn't matter, but when cutting 5" thick timbers, doing the old cut one side and flip the work, one obviously would appreciate 90 degrees. 


Offline yetihunter

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #58 on: December 26, 2017, 12:38 AM »
Aside from the Kapex being overpriced by $500, the fact it's only a 10" blade, and the fact you will be lucky to have your saws motor not burn up in a newer model after three years, I can't say I would do it. Boy I'd like to buy one, but three of the five builders I know who had one had many issues. Also it's  worthwhile to get a 12" bladed saw.  So many times I find myself wishing I brought my 12" Bosch Axial to a job instead of my 10" Makita. Sometimes a large crosscut capacity with a large cut depth are handy to have.  The only drawback with the axial is it's heavy.  The dust collection with a kapex dust shroud installed on it  is amazing.  Slower you cut, more dust you can expect to collect and it's over 90 percent of it which is comparable to the Kapex.  If you just dive the blade into the wood you can collect only about 60 percent.

I've played with a lot of unplugged Bosch glides and was impressed.
I'm getting analysis paralysis.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 264
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #59 on: December 26, 2017, 02:59 AM »
Yet in some respects the Bosch glide saw isn't really as good as a Kapex 120.  I've had both.  Yes the Bosch capacity is bigger (but not a whole lot), but dust capture is at best "average" & the controls (esp the bevel control) aren't quite as nice either.  With one distinct exception:  the horizontal handle on the Bosch & the mechanical plunge lock/safety lever are streets ahead ergonomically in comparison to the Festo/ol's rather awkward (to me) elongated vertical arrangement.

But man oh man, that Bosch is a heavy mother.  All but too heavy in fact for my aged bones to manhandle into & out of tight doorways & stairwells.  When fitted to its (heavy) gravity rise stand, it at least can be wheeled around, but the combined bulk & mass makes it all but impossible for me to hoist into & out of utility vehicles.  It can be rapidly unclipped from the carriage chassis, but that rather defeats its integrated purpose somewhat, plus it's a bit finicky to realign back onto the mounting rails again.

I've also found that those pneumatic tyres have an extremely irritating propensity to leak.  Solid rubber would've been a wiser choice here, & the whole assembly is only just able to fit through standard doorways without marking if you're careful.  I'd consider the Bosch GCM to perhaps be a better candidate for fixed installations, & the Kapex much more suited to portability.  Festool at least provide more handy grips for manhandling the Kapex around that appear to be missing from the GCM GDL.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Online ProCarpenterRVA

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #60 on: December 26, 2017, 04:54 PM »
Aside from the Kapex being overpriced by $500, the fact it's only a 10" blade, and the fact you will be lucky to have your saws motor not burn up in a newer model after three years, I can't say I would do it. Boy I'd like to buy one, but three of the five builders I know who had one had many issues. Also it's  worthwhile to get a 12" bladed saw.  So many times I find myself wishing I brought my 12" Bosch Axial to a job instead of my 10" Makita. Sometimes a large crosscut capacity with a large cut depth are handy to have.  The only drawback with the axial is it's heavy.  The dust collection with a kapex dust shroud installed on it  is amazing.  Slower you cut, more dust you can expect to collect and it's over 90 percent of it which is comparable to the Kapex.  If you just dive the blade into the wood you can collect only about 60 percent.

I've played with a lot of unplugged Bosch glides and was impressed.
I'm getting analysis paralysis.
It's all fun and games until you have to pick up the darn thing to cart it out of the store. Yikes, this thing is a bit heavy!! [emoji52]

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Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 566
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #61 on: December 26, 2017, 06:20 PM »
Oh, I would not consider that saw for construction/carpentry/remodel.   [scared]

Offline Rob-GB

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #62 on: December 27, 2017, 12:16 PM »
Any mitre saw that is re-located from job to job will have the occasional need to re-calibrate unless you have access to a hover board  [big grin]

My Kapex has travelled many miles since purchase in 2010 and I the only calibration that I have needed to do was with the laser (twice). It gets used for everything from cutting rafters to joint points on geometrical stair handrailing to mitres on furniture.
At the risk of jinxing the tool...it has never let me down.
Before the Kapex I managed with an Elu chopsaw, similar models are now branded dewalt and the quality is much lower. I retired that Elu but have it in reserve for a rainy day.
Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 117
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #63 on: December 27, 2017, 01:57 PM »
I've played with a lot of unplugged Bosch glides and was impressed.
I'm getting analysis paralysis.
Try this quick cure - pull the Glide and the stand out of the van, together with 2 or 3 cables and an industrial vacuum cleaner. Haul it across 200 yards of rubble-strewn construction site, then up 6 flights of stairs (say 80 or 90 steps) to the third floor and set-up the kit. This will take 4 return journeys. Do a full day's work framing out or trimming-out. Then unplug the saw and break down the sawing rig, haul it all don to the ground floor (another 4 return trips) and lug it across to the van where you need to pack it in neatly. Go home. The following day repeat, and keep on repeating for the full 6 days of a working week and for the full 4 weeks of a month. Then see how keen you are on the Bosch glide saw and the Gravity Rise stand.....
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 02:03 PM by Job and Knock »
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Offline Jaybolishes

  • Posts: 366
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #64 on: December 27, 2017, 02:18 PM »
That's why you get the Dewalt stand. With the money you save you can offer $100 a day for a hand if it's too heavy.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 566
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #65 on: December 27, 2017, 08:58 PM »
I was that $100 a day hand for most of my twenties. 
No thanks, I ain't going back to a jobsite and I
certainly ain't carrying nothin'.  🤣


Offline cubevandude

  • Posts: 16
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2017, 08:12 AM »
I wish Dewalt offered the DW777 in North America.  They sold an older version of it under the Elu name about 25 years ago.  It will do most of your trim work and is smaller that the 12 inch monsters sold now.  I used the ELU for over 15 years until I decided a new saw was needed.  I missed the Elu and picked one up a few years ago at an auction with the original blade still in it for $15.  It does not have the upgraded fence on it though and needs the fence changed.  Dewalt fixed all the quirks from what I see in the videos.  I'm in Canada so can't get the Dewalt 777 anyway.  I think it would be a great saw and looks like they just made it cordless.

Offline big K

  • Posts: 6
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #67 on: December 31, 2017, 04:24 AM »
Two huge issues with the Kapex saw, besides the price anyways. I have always hated vertical handles on any miter saw. To me the ergonomics make that saw a no go. And since the more recent Kapex's have developed a nasty habit of smoking out, I am not willing to gamble that kind of money to test my luck.

Pity, as I would love to get a SCMS that excelled in dust control the way the Kapex has, but apparently Festool is not in any hurry to correct the problem. Oh well.

Offline Rob-GB

  • Posts: 1075
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #68 on: December 31, 2017, 09:39 AM »
Two huge issues with the Kapex saw, besides the price anyways. I have always hated vertical handles on any miter saw. To me the ergonomics make that saw a no go.

Is this an American issue?
I ask this as there seems to be an idea that if it is not powered it is not a tool in the states.
The grip action on the Kapex is just like using a handsaw and very natural to anyone who learnt using hand tools before being let loose with power tools.
I have only once used a chop saw with a horizontal aspect and that felt very foreign to me.
Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #69 on: December 31, 2017, 09:48 AM »
Every miters I have had since 1983 has had a vertical handle.  A few times I had had to use a horizontal handle and that handle was offset to one side of the centerline.  Felt weird to me.  I would thing that the center handles set up like that on the Kapex would appeal to both left and right handed users and keep forces more inline with the blade and slides.

Preferences will always vary of course.

Peter

Online ProCarpenterRVA

  • Posts: 69
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #70 on: December 31, 2017, 10:19 AM »
I wish Dewalt offered the DW777 in North America.  They sold an older version of it under the Elu name about 25 years ago.  It will do most of your trim work and is smaller that the 12 inch monsters sold now.  I used the ELU for over 15 years until I decided a new saw was needed.  I missed the Elu and picked one up a few years ago at an auction with the original blade still in it for $15.  It does not have the upgraded fence on it though and needs the fence changed.  Dewalt fixed all the quirks from what I see in the videos.  I'm in Canada so can't get the Dewalt 777 anyway.  I think it would be a great saw and looks like they just made it cordless.
That's essentially my 35 year old Dewalt 1707 Crosscutter Saw in Yellow!!! German made, 8-1/2" blade, 27 mm dust port, absolutely love the saw, way ahead of its time in America. I paid a small fortune for it back then, and I was envied by all the guys I worked with, especially since it never really caught on and was hard to get. Unfortunately the weird stroke and the small format make it too dangerous(I'm cautious, have seen a few fingers chopped ) to let anyone else use. I still have it in the miter saw arsenal in the shop, though... It is light enough to grab when finishing up a project and just need to get a few pieces of trim installed. I can still get parts for it!

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Offline pettyconstruction

  • Posts: 429
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #71 on: December 31, 2017, 02:52 PM »
Two huge issues with the Kapex saw, besides the price anyways. I have always hated vertical handles on any miter saw. To me the ergonomics make that saw a no go.

Is this an American issue?
I ask this as there seems to be an idea that if it is not powered it is not a tool in the states.
The grip action on the Kapex is just like using a handsaw and very natural to anyone who learnt using hand tools before being let loose with power tools.
I have only once used a chop saw with a horizontal aspect and that felt very foreign to me.
Rob.
I agree, I don’t care for the horizontal handle type
Charlie


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Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 264
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #72 on: December 31, 2017, 08:20 PM »
Whilst I'm personally not a fan of vertical mitre saw handles, I suppose it's because I've only really had horizontal ones before & since my own Kapex:  DeWalt DW1251, Bosch GCM GDL, Metabo KGS 216 LTX 18.  So the action of a vertical handle just doesn't "feel right".  For the same reason, those asymmetric handles on smaller Festo/Festool/Mafell routers also feel just too weird to me too:  whereas my older Elu & DeWalt router designs feel "just right".

I can understand where some situations call for, & probably work best with, a vertical handle.  Handsawing, or other vigorous or energetic pushing actions lend themselves to vertical handles more than horizontal.  Track/rail sawing or even just crosscutting or ripping freehand with any circular would just be too stupidly un-ergonomic with horizontal handgrips.

Yet the pull-out-push-down-push-in action of SCMS & even more so the carefully restrained, creeping feed of a Radial Arm Saw just seem more natural to me with my hand held horizontally.

As far as the Kapex is concerned, however, its not just the handle alignment that's an issue for me.  My hands are fairly small (size M gloves), & the elongated hand slot on the Kapex would tend to get slippery when I'm sweating.  I'd often have to catch myself in the process of losing my grip.  That's dangerous.  I'd far rather devote my attention to the blade in/on the workpiece than on my grip.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 566
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #73 on: January 01, 2018, 04:34 PM »
Whilst I'm personally not a fan of vertical mitre saw handles, I suppose it's because I've only really had horizontal ones before & since my own Kapex:  DeWalt DW1251, Bosch GCM GDL, Metabo KGS 216 LTX 18.  So the action of a vertical handle just doesn't "feel right".  For the same reason, those asymmetric handles on smaller Festo/Festool/Mafell routers also feel just too weird to me too:  whereas my older Elu & DeWalt router designs feel "just right".

I can understand where some situations call for, & probably work best with, a vertical handle.  Handsawing, or other vigorous or energetic pushing actions lend themselves to vertical handles more than horizontal.  Track/rail sawing or even just crosscutting or ripping freehand with any circular would just be too stupidly un-ergonomic with horizontal handgrips.

Yet the pull-out-push-down-push-in action of SCMS & even more so the carefully restrained, creeping feed of a Radial Arm Saw just seem more natural to me with my hand held horizontally.

As far as the Kapex is concerned, however, its not just the handle alignment that's an issue for me.  My hands are fairly small (size M gloves), & the elongated hand slot on the Kapex would tend to get slippery when I'm sweating.  I'd often have to catch myself in the process of losing my grip.  That's dangerous.  I'd far rather devote my attention to the blade in/on the workpiece than on my grip.

Now, c'mon, you know that the Dewalt versions of the Elu routers
don't feel right. The handles aren't shiny. 😁🤗
To be fair, the plunge action is still the best thing since sliced calamari.

If anyone wants the Elu saw, there's one on eBay.   

So did the op buy a kapex or what?


Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 117
Re: Need a miter saw for a large jobsite project, would you buy a Kapex?
« Reply #74 on: January 01, 2018, 07:17 PM »
I wish Dewalt offered the DW777 in North America.
Shame that they don't. That's been my "drag around" saw for the last 5 years and it's been pretty good, although TBH mine is actually a DW771 (variable speed, otherwise identical) and I have the legstands for it as well. The Kapex gets kept for the high value/high accuracy tasks but for slamming-in miles of MDF or softwood skirtings (baseboards) and basic architrave sets the little DW is hard to fault - apart, that is, from its' less than stellar dust extraction. It's also god for my old back! A couple of colleagues have bought a newer, lighter version the DWS773/DWS774, which is even smaller and lighter

That's essentially my 35 year old Dewalt 1707 Crosscutter Saw in Yellow!!! German made, 8-1/2" blade, 27 mm dust port, absolutely love the saw, way ahead of its time in America.
Not really. Same format, different motor, though, and slightly better guards - oh, and the dust extraction requires a 3-into-1 "snake" hose
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 07:22 PM by Job and Knock »
Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
- Shaker Maxims

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 443
 ;D
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 12:10 PM by Lbob131 »