Author Topic: need new motor for ctl midi  (Read 3513 times)

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Offline Festoolfootstool

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need new motor for ctl midi
« on: April 20, 2016, 04:19 AM »
Can someone confirm the price for a new motor in the UK is £224.00 as this seems ridiculus
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

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Offline Alex

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Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2016, 05:43 AM »
Ekat gives 162 pound ex vat for a 240v model and 110 pound ex vat for a 110v model.

Offline Petey83

  • Posts: 94
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2016, 05:45 AM »
that does look like the price including VAT on the MTMC site but found this which looks a little more sensible if it is the correct motor for the midi (part number searched was the same one used on the MTMC site)

http://thetoolstoredirect.co.uk/store/gbu-prodshow/Festool-Spare-Part-498299-Turbine-ET-BG-230V.html
MFT 3 | TS55 | Domino DF500 | CXS | Carvex PS420 | OF1010 | OF1400 | Kapex KS120 | PDC 18/4 | CTL Midi | Rotex RO90 | CMS GE + Sliding Table | CMS OF Insert | CMS TS55 Insert..............Mirka Deros......Fein Multimaster 350 (iN YELLOW & ORANGE SYSTAINERS!!)

Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2016, 05:56 AM »
Thanks guys, its just not worth repairing, which is such a waste, its more than half the cost of a new machine.. I just cant see why the motor would cost sooo much.
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline Alex

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Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2016, 06:09 AM »
A new Midi is 390 pounds. What does a vac consist of?

- motor
- electronics board
- filters
- some buttons
- heap of plastic, hose incl.

The motor takes by far the brunt of the cost.

No point complaining about the cost of Festool, you know from the start it is an expensive brand.

Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 838
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2016, 06:25 AM »
Yeah that's bonkers.

Axminster sell the CTL midi for £295. So when you consider for that £295 you're getting/paying for:

-The entire machine body and all internal parts
-Assembly labour
-The hose
-The tool connector
-Packaging
-3 year warranty
-A contribution to the cost of the returned items/theft cover under the service all inclusive

So yeah £224 is just stupid money when you can ha e a whole new machine for only £70 more!


« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 06:28 AM by bobfog »

Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2016, 06:25 AM »
A new Midi is 390 pounds. What does a vac consist of?

- motor
- electronics board
- filters
- some buttons
- heap of plastic, hose incl.

The motor takes by far the brunt of the cost.

No point complaining about the cost of Festool, you know from the start it is an expensive brand.

Alex

the cost of a new vac is £280 from nuts and bolts this cost has 20 % tax included along with a three year warrantee and theft cover the motor is worth around £60.00
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5699
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2016, 06:48 AM »
Then I would certainly opt to get a new vac instead of repairing it.

Dealers can now sell tools lower than the Festool price, which is a good thing, but unfortunately nobody can control what Festool asks for spare parts.

Whenever I have a tool that needs the motor or electronics board repaired I just find me a new, or better, a used-but-new-to-me tool. And sell the broken tool. Odly enough they're very easy to get rid off and get some money back. UK market might vary though.

Offline Festoolfootstool

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  • The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2016, 07:01 AM »
I have Just found a german seller who sells original motors for the midi for £52.00 plus p&p so I have just ordered one..
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2016, 07:04 AM »
I've seen those cheap DC motors listed .. never knew if they were the real thing.

Alternately you could probably list the DC on Ebay as "needs repair" and still get a decent return.

Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2016, 07:11 AM »
I will post about my thoughts re; the quality of the motor, and results
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5699
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2016, 09:56 AM »
Nice you got it so cheap, that's a lot better. You can get Festool stuff way cheaper if you just dig around a bit. Good luck with the repair.

Offline cjd

  • Posts: 5
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2018, 05:02 PM »
Hi to everybody I am new to the forum.

I am looking to replace the carbon brushes in my midi motor but have not figured out how to dismantle the motor to carry this out.
Any advice from someone has completed this task previously would be appreciated.

Also tried one of those motors from Germany as found on eBay but a difference in the casing arrangement means the mounting bracket does not fit.

Thanks

Offline Alex

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Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2018, 01:55 AM »
You don't need to dismantle the motor, the brushes are on the outside of it, and you can just pop them out of their holders. You just need to remove the plastic shell from the vac and it's all accessible.


Offline cjd

  • Posts: 5
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2018, 05:29 PM »
Thanks Alex,

Well the motor in your picture is substantially different to my version so I am not sure it is going to be that simple for my unit.

Festool do list replacement brushes so obviously it can be done but I cannot figure it out!

Offline BJM9818

  • Posts: 212
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2018, 08:47 PM »
I would have just thrown it up on eBay. I’ve seen a few midis that did not run go for $200+.

I have a 2006 Midi that still works. I think I paid $435 for it.  When that finally does, if I can get $175-200 for a broken 13 year old tool i used a ton no complaints there.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5699
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2018, 03:16 AM »
Thanks Alex,

Well the motor in your picture is substantially different to my version so I am not sure it is going to be that simple for my unit.

Festool do list replacement brushes so obviously it can be done but I cannot figure it out!

Right, sorry, I forgot that picture was from my old Mini, I haven't had a reason yet to open my newer model.

From what I can find online is that the newer motor has a plastic shell around it that you need to remove before you can access its innards. As far as I can judge from the lowe res pictures it is clamped in place by clips. You can open such clips by sticking a screwdriver or something like that in it, but the trick often is you have to do it with all clips at the same time. Tread carefully!

Does this look more like your motor?



Offline smartins

  • Posts: 27
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2018, 03:18 AM »
I regularly see also in Germany that in ebay worn Festool tools goes in auctions for about 70-90% from new price...  Never understood why save 50-100euros and have worn tool...

I would have just thrown it up on eBay. I’ve seen a few midis that did not run go for $200+.

I have a 2006 Midi that still works. I think I paid $435 for it.  When that finally does, if I can get $175-200 for a broken 13 year old tool i used a ton no complaints there.

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 462
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2018, 06:32 AM »
I regularly see also in Germany that in ebay worn Festool tools goes in auctions for about 70-90% from new price...  Never understood why save 50-100euros and have worn tool...

Those are bought for the parts. Repairing Festools 'off the regular road' is a business in Germany. Even at almost full price for a complete machine it is still way cheaper than buying the parts.
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 Mk2 · MFT/3 + VL + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 EQ · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · Centrotec Sets 2008 + 2015 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · Kapex KS120 · 2 x MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700 · BS75 · OFK500 · OF2200 · CMS-GE … | Mirka 1230L P&C | Hammer A3 31 Silent Power · Hammer N4400 

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3535
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2018, 09:30 AM »
I regularly see also in Germany that in ebay worn Festool tools goes in auctions for about 70-90% from new price...  Never understood why save 50-100euros and have worn tool...

Those are bought for the parts. Repairing Festools 'off the regular road' is a business in Germany. Even at almost full price for a complete machine it is still way cheaper than buying the parts.

Then why bother with repair?

One of the reasons I switched to Festool 15 years ago was the assumption that the tools cost so much that repair would be practical. It bothered me that a good tool had to be trashed because of the failure of one small part. But I learned the hard way that the repair/replace proposition on Festools is just as bad as on cheaper tools.

Another reason I went with Festool was that I learned they bought the Holz-Her factory and would be making superior belt sanders again and my old AEG 110v version from the mid '80's not getting any newer. But, that's for another thread.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 09:37 AM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 462
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2018, 09:38 AM »
I regularly see also in Germany that in ebay worn Festool tools goes in auctions for about 70-90% from new price...  Never understood why save 50-100euros and have worn tool...

Those are bought for the parts. Repairing Festools 'off the regular road' is a business in Germany. Even at almost full price for a complete machine it is still way cheaper than buying the parts.

Then why bother with repair?

There are guys on the German eBay that offer an all-inclusive repair of various Festool machines. Their pricing is very competetive compared to the regular services (that use the trumped up parts prices of Festools Ekat). In the order of things they luck out on certain repairs that require only one cheap part & sometimes need a more expensive part for a repair. Apparantly in the long run these guys make money, so draw your conclusions…

In my opinion cannibalizing defective machines for their parts is a good thing, although I'd rather have repairs done with some kind of warranty (don't know enough about german law to make a statement about the eBay guys' warranties).
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 Mk2 · MFT/3 + VL + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 EQ · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · Centrotec Sets 2008 + 2015 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · Kapex KS120 · 2 x MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700 · BS75 · OFK500 · OF2200 · CMS-GE … | Mirka 1230L P&C | Hammer A3 31 Silent Power · Hammer N4400 

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3535
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2018, 12:28 PM »
Okay, I get it. A repair guy should be able to do several repairs of other with the parts contained in a complete machine.

Offline smartins

  • Posts: 27
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2018, 03:17 PM »
OK, motor powered items... But what can go wrong with mft3 vl extension, for example? I was just hoping get used vl, but it went for more than 75% from new price (if shipping needed, which was not cheap either). And that was scratched and used quite a lot...
So, good for Festool, I'm going to buy new. :)


Those are bought for the parts. Repairing Festools 'off the regular road' is a business in Germany. Even at almost full price for a complete machine it is still way cheaper than buying the parts.

Offline cjd

  • Posts: 5
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2018, 04:04 PM »
Alex,
     
Yes you have it, the picture on the right that you have posted is the style i have.

Removing the shell makes sense but it appears that the cooling fan would also need to be removed and i am not sure how that is fixed, can't see a threaded fixing of any kind so maybe it is pressed on?


Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5699
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2018, 04:39 PM »
Yes you have it, the picture on the right that you have posted is the style i have.

Removing the shell makes sense but it appears that the cooling fan would also need to be removed and i am not sure how that is fixed, can't see a threaded fixing of any kind so maybe it is pressed on?

I don't think you have to worry about the cooling fan. I think you have to undo the clips and then the bottom part will separate to give you access to the brushes.

Both pictures in my previous post are from the same generic Nilfisk Alto motor, only Festool added the black plastic around it for their models. On the left picture you can see this rectangular protrusion next to one of the clips, and I think that's where the brushes are located.



Of course I can only speculate from a distance not having this at hand myself, and I'm not going to take my own vac apart when it's not needed, but I've repaired/refurbished dozens of Festools by now, and in my experience the important parts are never that difficult to get to, let alone the brushes, because they need to be easily serviceable.

I would try to get all the plastic clips loose and see if the top part lifts off.

But, only try this when you're certain of your ability to get it all back in working order again.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 04:43 PM by Alex »

Offline cjd

  • Posts: 5
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2018, 05:46 PM »
Alex,

       As you suggest by lifting the case slightly the brush and brush housing can be lifted and extracted that way. The black mounting ring in your second picture actually covers a cut out in the casing which once removed gives a far better view of what you are working with.

It appears that the bearing in the cooling fan end may be failed too as it has some play to such as extent that the fan has been contacting the casing depositing material from the fan on the casing.

Have to say though the new unit I had from eBay also had a certain amount of play on this end too.

Looking at the removed brush and  brush housing it would seem around 25mm of brush has worn away with around 15mm still intact.

Do you recommend Festool brushes only as they are horribly expensive and I am still dubious about the bearing too.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5699
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2018, 06:44 PM »
I'd mainly recommend the Festool brushes because I have no clue about an alternative. I recently tried to find some alternative brushes for my Fein MultiMaster and the guy in the hardware store told me it is always best to go with the originals because there can be slight differences in hardness and conductivity between brands. I tried to put some Festool brushes in I had laying around, but they didn't work.

So if you want to experiment with alternatives, then I've got no advice of value to give.

Your Midi must have been used an awful lot to see so much wear. My 11 year old older type Mini isn't even worn like you describe, and it has seen a lot of use.

Offline cjd

  • Posts: 5
Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2018, 01:21 AM »
Alex,
 
      thanks for the advice. Well I always prefer genuine parts where possible and if I am interpreting the Festool parts diagram correctly it appears that the brushes are part of a kit containing numerous other parts too.

Yes the machine has been used a fair bit but more as a vacuum than a dust extractor but it is only 4 years old.

Offline PreferrablyWood

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Re: need new motor for ctl midi
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2018, 06:55 PM »
Such helpful info. I thank the contributors her.
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