Author Topic: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65  (Read 1857 times)

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Online Steven Owen

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New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« on: October 04, 2017, 04:37 PM »
I’m planing to buy my first Festool equipment over the next year.  I’m home wood worker who eventually is planing to make furniture for re-sale after working on upgrading my wood working skills over the next 1-2 years.

I have my mind made up on the following items.  There’s not too much debate here.  I think
The Bushless EC is a better choice for most Furniture making tasks over the Rotex.

- Midi Dust Extraror
- Domino XF 700
- TS 75 for ticker wood cuts
- EC 150 Sander
- RO 90 Sander

The sanders in the middle.  Well that one gets much harder.

- ETS 150/3
- Bosch ROS 65

- New ETS 125 with a 250 W motor and improved stock removal.

I don’t think it’s a case where you can go wrong.  The ETS 125 is a pure finish sander.  The real contest will be between the ROS 65 and ETS 150/3.

I would expect the ETS/3 to have an edge on dust removal and the ROS 65 to have an edge on stock removal, anti-vibration and the Bosch ROS 65’s ability to be used both as a 5 inch and 6 inch sander.

If I use Abranet, the Bosch and Festool cousins will be able to share abrasives.

Based on furniture based projects, what sanders do you think will make the best combination. 



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Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 715
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2017, 05:09 PM »
if you are set on an ETS EC 150 then there is no need for either the ets 150 or the ros65.

The ETS EC will be more than sufficient.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3915
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2017, 05:39 PM »
if you are set on an ETS EC 150 then there is no need for either the ets 150 or the ros65.

The ETS EC will be more than sufficient.

If you only have 1 sander that is what I would do.

Unless you parts are not flat you do not need an RO90.

A half sheet sander is missing, and while many do not like them, they tend to keep surfaces flat. I tend to use it up to 120 or 180, and then move to random orbital up to 180 or 240 or 320/400.
I will often sand to 320 with a /5 and then finish using a hand block with the grain.

I do not see any fancy Mirka or Festool hand blocks. Mirka makes a 3"x8" and a 115x228 which uses the same screens as the 1/2-sheet sander.
You can get both Mirka blocks and their hose that fits any vacuum for ~$100... More like $200 with packs of screens.

I would suggest those hand blocks and any cheap sander over any of the RO-series sanders for flat work.

Online Steven Owen

  • Posts: 133
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2017, 05:50 PM »
Does the new EC 150/3 make purchasing the ETS 150/3 redundant?

Online Steven Owen

  • Posts: 133
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2017, 06:31 PM »
if you are set on an ETS EC 150 then there is no need for either the ets 150 or the ros65.

The ETS EC will be more than sufficient.

I didn’t think of looking at the Festool sheet sanders since I already have a Bosch sheet sander.

I watched a few videos on the ETS EC 150/3.  It does look like it would make the ETS/3
And Bosch ROS 65 redundant.

I will probably be willing to buy 3 different sanders for the job.

- ETS 125 for Varish Coats/Touch-up and Drywall
- ETS EC 150 as the main fishing sander
- R0 90 or Festool Detla for Face frames, narrow wood cuts, tight corners 

The Rotex 150 would be a big question mark.  I wouldn’t need it for furniture projects.  It may have a use for re-finishing stairs, a deck, stripping paint off a fence, ect.  There’s no fire burning to buy a Rotex for any immediate projects.

Do I have the right combination or is the RO 90 overkill?

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 715
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2017, 07:01 PM »
It’s your dime.... but IMO you don’t need the 125. Either 150 will be more than adequate.

Bosch half sheet will be fine you might want to consider the DTS 400 got your corner stuff. If you like the BLUE consider the 1250devs as an alternative to the RO150


Online Steven Owen

  • Posts: 133
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2017, 01:11 AM »
I ended up picking up the new ETS 125 today for my varnish work.  I don’t want anything with a big stoke and aggressive removal rate for sanding inbetween varnish coats.

The CT Midi will be the next purchase.  Then I’ll make a final decision on my primary go-to project sander. 

- Mirka DEROS 6 Inch with a 6 Inch pad
- Festool EC 150/3 there doesn’t seem to be a 5 option available
- ETS 5 or the ETS 3

All three are priced the same.  All three are good sanders.  It’s not an easy choice.  I like the ergonomics of the Festool EC better.  The Mirka has a 5 MM stoke and a better design for dust collection on boards under 3 inches.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2017, 01:25 AM »
I ended up picking up the new ETS 125 today for my varnish work.  I don’t want anything with a big stoke and aggressive removal rate for sanding inbetween varnish coats.

The CT Midi will be the next purchase.  Then I’ll make a final decision on my primary go-to project sander. 

- Mirka DEROS 6 Inch with a 6 Inch pad
- Festool EC 150/3 there doesn’t seem to be a 5 option available
- ETS 5 or the ETS 3

All three are priced the same.  All three are good sanders.  It’s not an easy choice.  I like the ergonomics of the Festool EC better.  The Mirka has a 5 MM stoke and a better design for dust collection on boards under 3 inches.

Hi,

   Welcome to the forum!  [smile]

There is definitely an ETS EC 150 /5  available. 

        https://www.festoolusa.com/products/sanding-and-brushing/random-orbital-sander/571892---ets-ec1505-eq-plus-usa


Seth

Online Steven Owen

  • Posts: 133
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2017, 11:42 AM »
I found it on Elite Tools website.  The Festool Canada store doesn’t carry it.  The Festool store relies on Atlas Machinery to fulfil orders in Canada.   Atlas is the reason why the 5 MM version.

The Mirka DEROS and the Festool 150/5 EC ETS are identical in a lot of ways.  Overall owners of the Festool 150/5 EC are repotting fewer problems.  The performance of the two units is nearly identical with the Mirka being slightly faster at material removal by a hair. 

I’ve lost count of the number of threads complaining about the reliability of the DEROS.  Most of those posts are from 2014/2015.  Most of the issues were cuircuit board failures.

Concerns about reliability of the Mirka have kept me leaning towards buys the Festool EC instead. The Festool has a wider range of add-on’s and third party add-on’s over the Mirka.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3915
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2017, 05:18 PM »
In 110v the Mirka woes, seem similar to the 110v Kapex woes.
(mine is 230v)

You may want to try the Mirka screens which will fit on the ETS/EC.
The dust holes line up.  [smile]

Online Steven Owen

  • Posts: 133
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2017, 08:37 PM »
In 110v the Mirka woes, seem similar to the 110v Kapex woes.
(mine is 230v)

You may want to try the Mirka screens which will fit on the ETS/EC.
The dust holes line up.  [smile]

I plan on using Abranet as my main sanding discs.  The Ceros had great reliability.  The Ceros had a separate power supply. 

Integrating the power supply into the body of the small Deros is creating more heat.  My best guess is the added heat is killing off their circuit boards.  The Ceros was rock solid.  Sometimes there’s only so much you can jam into a tiny space.

   

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3915
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2017, 08:55 PM »
...
I plan on using Abranet as my main sanding discs.
...

The HD are more substancial, and papers tend to rip less (which is always near the edge of a piece).


...
Integrating the power supply into the body of the small Deros is creating more heat.  My best guess is the added heat is killing off their circuit boards.  The Ceros was rock solid.  Sometimes there’s only so much you can jam into a tiny space.

The 230v DEROS seems to work fine... And I believe that the DC motor is the same voltage in both the 230v and 110v.

Amps create heat more than volts do, in fact there is no physical mechanism to create heat from volts in a power transmission sense.

There CEROS did seem elegant and a model for battery or wall power to get to a common DC tool.

The main thing I know is that for Finnish work one may want a Finnish sander  8)

Online Steven Owen

  • Posts: 133
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2017, 10:50 PM »
...
I plan on using Abranet as my main sanding discs.
...

The HD are more substancial, and papers tend to rip less (which is always near the edge of a piece).


...
Integrating the power supply into the body of the small Deros is creating more heat.  My best guess is the added heat is killing off their circuit boards.  The Ceros was rock solid.  Sometimes there’s only so much you can jam into a tiny space.

The 230v DEROS seems to work fine... And I believe that the DC motor is the same voltage in both the 230v and 110v.

Amps create heat more than volts do, in fact there is no physical mechanism to create heat from volts in a power transmission sense.

There CEROS did seem elegant and a model for battery or wall power to get to a common DC tool.

The main thing I know is that for Finnish work one may want a Finnish sander  8)

I’ll have to see if anyone carries the Mirka Deros in Edmonton, Alberta.  It pays to get one in your hands before making a decision.  I’m leaning heavily towards the ETS EC 150 5mm for it’s better reliability reviews.

 Both sanders are so close you can’t really go wrong either way.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3915
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2017, 07:29 AM »
In 230v land, and liking a paddle switch, the Mirka is a no brainer when it is the same price as an ETS/EC.

In the US/Canada, with 110v, One can argue argue that the Festool could be a better choice with their footprint. IMO The Mirka is a better sander, but the ETS/EC is a solid 9.9, and there have been no 110v issues, and Festool have a big footprint for support.

I would probably get a Bosch if I was in Canada, but any of the three would be outstanding.

Or I would get a Bosch random orbital and a good 1/2-sheet sander.

Online Steven Owen

  • Posts: 133
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2017, 09:27 AM »
In 230v land, and liking a paddle switch, the Mirka is a no brainer when it is the same price as an ETS/EC.

In the US/Canada, with 110v, One can argue argue that the Festool could be a better choice with their footprint. IMO The Mirka is a better sander, but the ETS/EC is a solid 9.9, and there have been no 110v issues, and Festool have a big footprint for support.

I would probably get a Bosch if I was in Canada, but any of the three would be outstanding.

Or I would get a Bosch random orbital and a good 1/2-sheet sander.

I like the Bosch.  It’s very heavy for furniture work where you have odd angles and shapes.  I wanted something light for my primary go-to sander.

The Festool actually cost $60 more than the Mirka in Canada. Mirka distributes directly into Canada and Festool uses the US to move products into Canada.   The Deros is $65 cheaper than the ETS-EC-150.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3915
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2017, 11:10 PM »
Well the Mirka is light and it is a joy to use.
I have a stunningly great 1/2-sheet sander, but the Mirka actually makes sanding fun.

Do they have a decent warranty?

They sell variety pack of screens where you get a few in each grit.
The Abranet-HD seem to work better for rough work, and papers hold up better in the <100 gr range.

For furniture you will probably be using 120/180/240 and 320 (??).

It is not like either sander is a bad choice, and they are just about tied for 1st.
Basically comes down to whether you like a switch or a paddle as to how one would rank them.

I have the DEROS, and the word is that the ETS/EC was modelled off the Mirkas... They are about the same.
That being said I got the Mirka, and if it is cheaper there and has a warranty... well it is not like it isn't world's top random orbital sander.
If it was $100 more than the Festtool, and you liked a switch over a paddle, I would say get the Festool.
Or if you really needed the PlugIt, which is dodgy, but less dodgy than the Mirka... Then I would say get the Festool.
---
I seem to stop often and run my paw across the surface, so using the paddle seems natural.
(I never seem to sand for more than a few minute before either switching screens, or stopping for look.)

It is only changing papers that the paddle turns it on, so after 1/2 dozen times you remember to switch it off.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 11:17 PM by Holmz »

Online Steven Owen

  • Posts: 133
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2017, 03:07 AM »
Well the Mirka is light and it is a joy to use.
I have a stunningly great 1/2-sheet sander, but the Mirka actually makes sanding fun.

Do they have a decent warranty?

They sell variety pack of screens where you get a few in each grit.
The Abranet-HD seem to work better for rough work, and papers hold up better in the <100 gr range.

For furniture you will probably be using 120/180/240 and 320 (??).

It is not like either sander is a bad choice, and they are just about tied for 1st.
Basically comes down to whether you like a switch or a paddle as to how one would rank them.

I have the DEROS, and the word is that the ETS/EC was modelled off the Mirkas... They are about the same.
That being said I got the Mirka, and if it is cheaper there and has a warranty... well it is not like it isn't world's top random orbital sander.
If it was $100 more than the Festtool, and you liked a switch over a paddle, I would say get the Festool.
Or if you really needed the PlugIt, which is dodgy, but less dodgy than the Mirka... Then I would say get the Festool.
---
I seem to stop often and run my paw across the surface, so using the paddle seems natural.
(I never seem to sand for more than a few minute before either switching screens, or stopping for look.)

It is only changing papers that the paddle turns it on, so after 1/2 dozen times you remember to switch it off.

The paddle will be the million dollar question.  I’m used to working with switches and toggle switches.  I’ll have to see if there’s any way I can get my hands on a sander to take on for a test drive to see if I can get used to working with a paddle.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3915
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2017, 03:54 AM »
It is pretty intuitive... Push it just a bit to go slow, depress it more for medium, and smash it for full speed.

I assume that snowmobile throttles still have the thumb operated throttle?
There should be an example around you ;)

Or run (or walk) down to the nearest panel beaters, as their pneumatic sanders usually all use a paddle.

Online Steven Owen

  • Posts: 133
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2017, 02:58 AM »
It is pretty intuitive... Push it just a bit to go slow, depress it more for medium, and smash it for full speed.

I assume that snowmobile throttles still have the thumb operated throttle?
There should be an example around you ;)

Or run (or walk) down to the nearest panel beaters, as their pneumatic sanders usually all use a paddle.

Festool’s biggest mistake on the ETS-EC series is the 400 W motor.  The 500 W motor on the Mirka Deros doesn’t seem like much.  The extra 100 W of power is the reason why people feel the Mirka Deros is faster and more agile than the ETS-EC-150 5mm units. 

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3915
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2017, 04:14 PM »
It is pretty intuitive... Push it just a bit to go slow, depress it more for medium, and smash it for full speed.

I assume that snowmobile throttles still have the thumb operated throttle?
There should be an example around you ;)

Or run (or walk) down to the nearest panel beaters, as their pneumatic sanders usually all use a paddle.

Festool’s biggest mistake on the ETS-EC series is the 400 W motor.  The 500 W motor on the Mirka Deros doesn’t seem like much.  The extra 100 W of power is the reason why people feel the Mirka Deros is faster and more agile than the ETS-EC-150 5mm units.

Both seem good but my time on a ETS/EC is in the minutes, not hours.
However, I do not hesitate to recommend ETS/EC as it is in many ways a clone of the DEROS (with a switch).

In comparison I have a 450W 1/2-sheet sander that does a 2.2 mm stroke at 12k rpm.
I thought that the DEROS was 450W?

In any case the Mirka takes ~60% of the time that the 1/2-sheet takes... So it is about more than just watts.
This is especially true if one is not jamming down on the sander. Which they say NOT to do in about every tutorial.
I doubt that they use anywhere near the 450W in normal use, because when one does jam down they sound like they stay close to the same speed.
Maybe a 200W sander does not run as jack-rabbit'ity fast as the 400-500W ones? and could be slower?

The removal rate seems pretty linear with the orbit size between a 2.5-mm oribit and a 5-mm orbit.

No one seems to provide a decent real-world comparison, just specs.
I did a kindergarten comparison on a bench top with identical grit screens on both sanders.

Online Steven Owen

  • Posts: 133
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2017, 04:48 PM »
It is pretty intuitive... Push it just a bit to go slow, depress it more for medium, and smash it for full speed.

I assume that snowmobile throttles still have the thumb operated throttle?
There should be an example around you ;)

Or run (or walk) down to the nearest panel beaters, as their pneumatic sanders usually all use a paddle.

Festool’s biggest mistake on the ETS-EC series is the 400 W motor.  The 500 W motor on the Mirka Deros doesn’t seem like much.  The extra 100 W of power is the reason why people feel the Mirka Deros is faster and more agile than the ETS-EC-150 5mm units.

Both seem good but my time on a ETS/EC is in the minutes, not hours.
However, I do not hesitate to recommend ETS/EC as it is in many ways a clone of the DEROS (with a switch).

In comparison I have a 450W 1/2-sheet sander that does a 2.2 mm stroke at 12k rpm.
I thought that the DEROS was 450W?

In any case the Mirka takes ~60% of the time that the 1/2-sheet takes... So it is about more than just watts.
This is especially true if one is not jamming down on the sander. Which they say NOT to do in about every tutorial.
I doubt that they use anywhere near the 450W in normal use, because when one does jam down they sound like they stay close to the same speed.
Maybe a 200W sander does not run as jack-rabbit'ity fast as the 400-500W ones? and could be slower?

The removal rate seems pretty linear with the orbit size between a 2.5-mm oribit and a 5-mm orbit.

No one seems to provide a decent real-world comparison, just specs.
I did a kindergarten comparison on a bench top with identical grit screens on both sanders.

Several guys have posted videos on You Tube using the EC-150 5 mm against the Mirka Deros 5 mm. Most of them try to draw a conclusion that the Mirka is slightly faster than the EC 5 mm.  Most of the differences are hard to discern and subjective. 

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3915
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2017, 04:36 AM »
...
Several guys have posted videos on You Tube using the EC-150 5 mm against the Mirka Deros 5 mm. Most of them try to draw a conclusion that the Mirka is slightly faster than the EC 5 mm.  Most of the differences are hard to discern and subjective.

I would not put too much value on a perception of "a bit, or slightly, faster"... The main point was to point out the Mirka as an option.
If light weight is important then those are hands-down the top two, and it then becomes mostly an argument over a switch.

If it is on a bench then there are more options when weight doesn't matter, or if one really wants a 8 or 12-mm orbit.

I cannot imagine you would have much to complain about with either sander.
I did not get paws on the ETS/EC until well after I had the DEROS, but I was impressed with it.
I have zero 'ragrets' with the yellow one [cool] and imagine the green one would be difficult to not like too.

(Which one is cheaper?  [smile] - You will need some screens...)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 04:38 AM by Holmz »

Online Steven Owen

  • Posts: 133
Re: New ETS 125 250 W 2 MM vs Bosch ROS 65
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2017, 09:15 AM »
...
Several guys have posted videos on You Tube using the EC-150 5 mm against the Mirka Deros 5 mm. Most of them try to draw a conclusion that the Mirka is slightly faster than the EC 5 mm.  Most of the differences are hard to discern and subjective.

I would not put too much value on a perception of "a bit, or slightly, faster"... The main point was to point out the Mirka as an option.
If light weight is important then those are hands-down the top two, and it then becomes mostly an argument over a switch.

If it is on a bench then there are more options when weight doesn't matter, or if one really wants a 8 or 12-mm orbit.

I cannot imagine you would have much to complain about with either sander.
I did not get paws on the ETS/EC until well after I had the DEROS, but I was impressed with it.
I have zero 'ragrets' with the yellow one [cool] and imagine the green one would be difficult to not like too.

(Which one is cheaper?  [smile] - You will need some screens...)

The question of which one is cheaper gets complicated.

- The new Festool hoses don’t fit the Mirka perfectly.  You may end-up having to buy a Mirka hose if you can’t find an adapter
- Mirka Accessories are cheaper
- The Deros can be changed into a 5 inch unit.  The Festool can’t.  You can turn the Deros 6 into a 5 inch if need be.
- The Festool has a much wider range of accessories available.  The more options to adapt the Festool to different types of jobs.