Author Topic: New from Festool for Europe - September 2018: CT pre separator with cyclone tech  (Read 19854 times)

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Online Roachmill

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Mine arrived yesterday but I only had a short time to play with it. I did notice a reduction in suction more with the SYS hooked up than the MIDI. This was using the empirical hand-over-the-end-of-the-tube test and the cyclone top was left untouched between switching vacs so the seal should've been the same for both.

I'd guesstimate the reduction being vaguely in the 15% (SYS) and 5% (MIDI) range, but that's in no way reliable [big grin]. I didn't empty out the bags or clean the filters; they were hooked up as they were. The SYS was ~40% full and I didn't check the MIDI bag but, IIRC, it's somewhere near half full. Another factor could be the hoses as I used the old ribbed D27 with the MIDI and the new slinky D27 with the SYS.

Tonights plan (kids willing!) is to try them again with new bags, the same hose and to clean their respective filters as best I can. I am a wee bit concerned that the SYS perhaps struggles more thus putting more strain on the motor (or it could be the bag as it's been reused many times over). Will see tonight.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 04:35 AM by Roachmill »

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Offline Peter Parfitt

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You need to watch emptying and re-using extractor bags. I used to do it with my CT26 but stopped after doing my dust study years ago.

Basically, the bag material is an important part of the filtration process as air passes through the material of the bag on its way to the main filter. It does not take long for the bag material to become saturated with small dust particles which then clogs the weave and reduces the effectiveness of the extractor. It is usually noticeable when a discolouration of the bag material is evident. This often happens as the bag becomes full for its first time of use. If you then empty and re-use the bag then the starting point will not be ideal and things go down hill from there on.

This is the reason that I stopped emptying my bags and went over to the UDD. With that setup I periodically check the bag in the CT and find that it only needs to be changed about once a year (more energetic woodworkers may need to do the change more often).

Peter

Offline Gregor

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I wonder if having no seal between the top and the bin being intentional so that blocking the inlet can't collapse the bin, by the maximum pressure differential being limited by air leaking in through the seam (which should quickly increase in case the clear bin decides to deform).

Online Roachmill

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Absolutely Peter. That's the plan now I've something to catch the vast majority of debris. It'll certainly make the cost of replacing CT bags a whole lot more palatable. Which reminds me, I'll need to have a hunt for compatible clear bin bags. IDK what Festool are charging for their branded ones... but I can hazard a guess!

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Absolutely Peter. That's the plan now I've something to catch the vast majority of debris. It'll certainly make the cost of replacing CT bags a whole lot more palatable. Which reminds me, I'll need to have a hunt for compatible clear bin bags. IDK what Festool are charging for their branded ones... but I can hazard a guess!

The bags are product code 204296 and have a RRP (inc VAT) of £22.92 for 10. I am sure that some of the box shifters will beat that price.

Peter

Online Roachmill

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Ta for the product code but 10 for £20 still sounds a lot to me, not that I'd be changing them all that often. But then I am an Aberdonian and we're world renowned for having deep pockets and short arms ;)

I'm currently looking at paper shredder bags as an alternative. 40ish litre ones appear to be somewhere around the right dimensions and 100 for £12 ain't bad. I would imagine they'll be a thinner gauge but may be worth a punt.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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The only thing to watch, and I am sure that Festool have this right, is that a clear bag allows you to check before it is overfull. As someone else (Don from Anderson I think) has said, if the drop box bag gets too full then everything goes into the CT and that bag is filled fairly quickly.

Of course having a paper bag does make the recycling profile look a lot better.

Peter

Offline CirclDigital

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Mine arrived yesterday but I only had a short time to play with it. I did notice a reduction in suction more with the SYS hooked up than the MIDI. This was using the empirical hand-over-the-end-of-the-tube test and the cyclone top was left untouched between switching vacs so the seal should've been the same for both.

Thanks... that most reviews seem to avoid this subject is a bit telling.

Online Roachmill

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Of course having a paper bag does make the recycling profile look a lot better.

Peter
Sorry, my mistake: it's clear plastic bags for paper shredders I'm looking for.

Offline RobBob

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There is probably a larger container out there somewhere that will work.  Maybe a tall kitchen trash can?

Offline GoingMyWay

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Wouldn't the hose be too short if the container were taller?
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

TS55, CT26, RO150, CXS, ETS 150/3, ETS EC 150/5, MFT/3, TS75, DF500, DTS400, OF1400, CT SYS

Offline RobBob

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Not if you placed the container on the floor next to the vac.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Wouldn't the hose be too short if the container were taller?

The seal is important and so if you want to do this just take an original drop box, remove the bottom and add on something bigger below.

As far as the hose goes the ends should be easily removed and fitted onto a new length of hose to suit the needs of the setup.

Or, to make life easier, just stick with things as they are.

Peter

Offline leakyroof

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If anything, I think the test Don did was more than real world. He basically overloaded the cyclone and forced it to produce results. The results were pretty astounding. I’m pretty slack-jawed with the results.

I’d expect that with the amount of debris that Don introduced into the cyclone and with the frequency that he kept introducing the debris that the cyclone would become overloaded. That would lead to a higher level of debris in the bag which was not the case.
   Although off topic a bit, my original UDD Cyclone and replacement unit handle massive dust input from using it with an 8" Drum Floor Sander, so if the Cyclone, any Cyclone ,is well thought out, it IS impressive how much dust they can handle.  Kudos to Festool, looks like an interesting set-up for people to use.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Online Roachmill

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New bag in the SYS made the world of difference. Couldn't notice any real drop in suction and smooth versus slinky hose made no odds. Thanks again Peter for the wise words.

I also gave up on finding alternative bags (couldn't find comparible sizes that weren't paper thin) and just ordered the Festool ones. It's not like I'll be changing them every other day.

Offline Peter Halle

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Am I missing something?  If we are talking about the Festool bags that go into the Cyclone, can't they just be emptied just like dumping the bin?  And then reused?

Peter

Offline Don Ware

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Most of the people I know that have the 36 AC ( planex extractor ) reuse the liner over and over should be the same on the CT Cyclone. But with the Cyclone it would be more work to dump the bag then reinstall it, Just dump the dust out of the bin with out a bag skip the reinstalling the bag part.
Don Ware
Anderson Plywood Sales
Culver City, California

Online Roachmill

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Emptying the bin, or even a bag, will be an option for some but it's not all that viable for me where I live (a small island in the North Sea). I only have a small workspace with no air purification so emptying dust inside is not ideal. Outside it is then... however, due to getting hammered by high wind a lot of the time, it's "not fun" and it'll be a whole lot easier and safer to just bin it. The bags will make what has been a major PITA for me a lot quicker and easier.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Emptying the bin, or even a bag, will be an option for some but it's not all that viable for me where I live (a small island in the North Sea). I only have a small workspace with no air purification so emptying dust inside is not ideal. Outside it is then... however, due to getting hammered by high wind a lot of the time, it's "not fun" and it'll be a whole lot easier and safer to just bin it. The bags will make what has been a major PITA for me a lot quicker and easier.

With strong westerly winds you do not need to take too much care - the Norwegians might get worried though !

Peter

Online Roachmill

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With strong westerly winds you do not need to take too much care - the Norwegians might get worried though !

Peter
Ha ha. Yes, they might. If you believe D.I. Perez from the Anne Cleves "Shetland" TV series,"You can see Norway from here on a clear day". You can't!


Offline Windsor Plywood Calgary West

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Mine arrived yesterday but I only had a short time to play with it. I did notice a reduction in suction more with the SYS hooked up than the MIDI. This was using the empirical hand-over-the-end-of-the-tube test and the cyclone top was left untouched between switching vacs so the seal should've been the same for both.

I am new to the site but am a Festool Dealer in Canada with Windsor Plywood Calgary West in Alberta. The CT Cyclone is not designed to work with the SYS, MINI or MIDI collectors. Not sure if that was covered or not within the thread.

We got our demo unit tuesday and I have to say that I am quite impressed with it as we have it on a 26 that we use in our shop. The unit makes the minimum operating height of the 26 before you can stack more Systainers almost 40" or 1010mm so its a bit taller than most would like.
Daniel Harcus
Windsor Plywood Calgary West
Proud Festool Dealer

Online Roachmill

  • Posts: 76
Mine arrived yesterday but I only had a short time to play with it. I did notice a reduction in suction more with the SYS hooked up than the MIDI. This was using the empirical hand-over-the-end-of-the-tube test and the cyclone top was left untouched between switching vacs so the seal should've been the same for both.

I am new to the site but am a Festool Dealer in Canada with Windsor Plywood Calgary West in Alberta. The CT Cyclone is not designed to work with the SYS, MINI or MIDI collectors. Not sure if that was covered or not within the thread.

We got our demo unit tuesday and I have to say that I am quite impressed with it as we have it on a 26 that we use in our shop. The unit makes the minimum operating height of the 26 before you can stack more Systainers almost 40" or 1010mm so its a bit taller than most would like.
It has been mentioned but no reason given as to why only for CT26+. It does appear to work with the smaller extractors so any official reason why it shouldn't be used would be appreciated.

Offline Don Ware

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The hose is not long enough to work on the Mini or the Midi.
Don Ware
Anderson Plywood Sales
Culver City, California

Online Roachmill

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The hose is not long enough to work on the Mini or the Midi.
The short coupling hose? It fits my midi with the VA on top - all be it snuggly.

Offline Windsor Plywood Calgary West

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There is no official response that I was given as to why it is not listed as compatible with the SYS/MINI/MIDI. The only reason I can see it not working as well due to the lower suction of the smaller collectors. So far my testing of it is with the 26 and we have been putting it through its paces. We are quite impressed with it but are yet to see much interest from our contractors.
Daniel Harcus
Windsor Plywood Calgary West
Proud Festool Dealer

Online Roachmill

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Thanks for that. An official reason would be good. Although, having put the SYS through its paces today with great results, I do wonder whether it's to sell pricier extractors. The TS55, RO 90 and Kapex all did their thing today with 20mm oak and there was not a drop (OK, maybe a puff) of dust in the SYS bag at the end of the day.

It's early days but a small vac with comparible small cyclone in a small shop has made me smile several times today :D

Offline Gregor

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We are quite impressed with it but are yet to see much interest from our contractors.

The thing (together with a pack of bins and the power extension that you need when you have a sleeved hose) cost about the same as a CTL MIDI - and takes about same space as one. Space is premium for quite many contractor vans I would suspect.

I also guess the same is true about money, you can buy plenty of bags (and they'll take less room) for the price of one pre separator - bags that you'll bill your customer for anyway.

Offline Windsor Plywood Calgary West

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The official news from my supplier is "The reason the CT Pre-Separator is not recommended for the small collectors is that Festool has not done substantial enough testing to know for sure if there could be any negative outcomes in the long term. Once the testing has been done to their liking, they will release new information on the unit."

Hope this helps guys!
Daniel Harcus
Windsor Plywood Calgary West
Proud Festool Dealer

Online Roachmill

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Thanks for taking the time to ask and passing it on. I'd call it good news... in a glass half full way ;)

Offline Windsor Plywood Calgary West

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You are most welcome. We are still new to the world of Festool so asking the questions you guys have helps us gain more knowledge as well.
Daniel Harcus
Windsor Plywood Calgary West
Proud Festool Dealer