Author Topic: New from Festool for Europe - September 2018: CT pre separator with cyclone tech  (Read 6859 times)

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Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2575
SVAR -
Thx for reading/commenting on my post. FYI... I think that you missed my point.
You apparently didn’t read (or understand) the next sentence.
Having an ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum setup has NEVER been about DURABILITY.
At my age - Both plastic or steel/metal - And my life insurance - Have greater longevity.[wink]
I read the multitude of FOG posts about plastic Dust Deputies - And the travails of “fried” Festool Dust Extractors.

You are wrong. The latest plastic Dust Deputy cyclone is CONDUCTIVE. Designed specifically for CTs.

Yep, I was just about to reply to Joe's post on this. It took Oneida a long, long time to finally make a DD from a material that was conductive enough to eliminate the static discharge issue on CT extractors. So, now their newer black plastic DD will work as needed. And their newer UDD with the black plastic cyclone is going to be a better solution than trying to mount a steel drum and steel cyclone on top of your CT. Just too bad it took Oneida so very long to correct their product -- especially when they were told of both the situation and the solution here repeatedly.
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

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Offline Svar

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I made my own cyclone in a Sys5. The cyclone itself, an anti static Dust Commander, along with the plywood lid, inverts and fits inside the Sys5 and then packs away.
Brilliant!

Online Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 317
I made my own cyclone in a Sys5. The cyclone itself, an anti static Dust Commander, along with the plywood lid, inverts and fits inside the Sys5 and then packs away.

Very clever idea.  Cyclones require tight seals between the cyclone and collector bin to be effective.  Can you share what you used?

Offline Joe Felchlin

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SVAR / CORWIN:
Thx for the info/correction. Accepted.
Glad it works for you.[smile]
All the same, I’ll stick with my setup. Works for me.[wink]
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Offline bwehman

  • Posts: 27
I’m curious how the liner stays in place without that little vacuum hose that the Oneida DD includes; the one that creates negative pressure on the backside of the bag.

Offline jmbfestool

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I made my own cyclone in a Sys5. The cyclone itself, an anti static Dust Commander, along with the plywood lid, inverts and fits inside the Sys5 and then packs away.

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Would have thought that’s something Festool would have done.   

Does the shorter hose fit inside the sys 5 aswell when the cyclone is inverted?

Just a simple and safe way transporting the cyclone in one hand cyclone  sys5 with short hose inside  and your other hand Festool vac with long hose in hose carriage which could have sanded attached so you could carry tool vac and cyclone all in one trip.

Then you have festools setup 😂😂🤣 gotta do atleast double the amount of trips or more.

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Offline jobsworth

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 @Distinctive Interiors

Thats a pretty slick set up. Please provide more info. How effectively does  it collects dust etc.

 Im interested in building something like that as Im started to do some on site work and Im tired of emptying the CT bags .

Anything to save a few quid and make life easier is always a good thing.

Offline Distinctive Interiors

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I got the idea to make it from a similar set up someone on here came up with a few years ago.

I tend to use 36mm A/S hoses for the majority of my cutting and routing, so there is not enough room inside the Sys5 for a short hose and the inverted Cyclone.

The 18mm plywood drop box is screwed and glued together and all joints sealed with Silicone sealant. The plywood top is a relatively snug fit in the rebate and although not a perfectly airtight seal, the drop box seems to work pretty well. I use mine mostly out on job sites and have had a lot of positive comments from other trades and clients.

The inlet and outlet pipes on the Cyclone don't fit the Festool hose ends. The spigots are slightly too small, so I bought 2 Festool 50mm straight couplings and wrapped the Cyclone spigots with aluminium conductive tape tò ensure I had electrical conductivity.

Overall, the set up suits my work method and I am happy with its efficiency.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 12:32 PM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline Gregor

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The 18mm plywood drop box is screwed and glued together and all joints sealed with Silicone sealant. The plywood top is a relatively snug fit in the rebate and although not a perfectly airtight seal, the drop box seems to work pretty well.
The seal of the collector box is very important to the effectiveness as even small leaks will massively reduce the separation, starting with the finest fraction. In case you get too much fine dust in the CT bag it might be worth to look at the seam between box and top, adding a rubber or foam seal there should help you get rid of any remaining leaks.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 567
When I first saw the one image of just the product (last week? Monday?), I laughed at it.   
Now that I've seen the set of marketing photos demonstrating onsite use... ok, now I get it.   

Whether it's a good product or not is something we'll have to wait and see.
However, based on looks, if I was sanding drywall all day (or doing concrete), this is totally better than the other options out there.

Just swap dust bins everytime you fill up.  At the end of the day, tie the bags up, lift the bin (the one that says Festool) over the bin (the one that says "Waste") let gravity do the job; no plumes and no dead back from lifting a bag. 

I used to hand schlep bags of instant concrete by the trailer load, and soil, and waste bags filled with offcuts and other misc garbage... I get this product.  I get it a lot.   [big grin]

For concrete and drywall, just imagine how much nicer this is than option a.   
And yes, the concrete industry is buying Festool dust extractors.   So, I don't see this as a Dust Deputy replacement.  I see this
as them seeing where the dust collectors have been getting sold and addressing that market's needs. 


Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 557
The chief value of the new Festool semi-cyclone separator is that it is more mobile than most and is the only one that allows you to stack stuff on top.

And that’s i ruggedly portable (at least as rugged as a systainer).  A DD wouldn’t live through daily transport and in/out of the truck for the working man.

I made my own cyclone in a Sys5. The cyclone itself, an anti static Dust Commander, along with the plywood lid, inverts and fits inside the Sys5 and then packs away.

UNLESS you did something like this.  A very brilliant idea sir!!  I’ve had some thoughts about making a cyclone in a systainer but got hung up on how to collect.  I was thinking of stacking two systainers on top of each other - top is the cyclone, bottom was the collector.  Your idea is way better.



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Offline Distinctive Interiors

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Thanks!......But as I said in an earlier post, I can't take the credit for the original idea. I just developed the idea based on someone else's Cyclone Systainer. It did however, make sense to invert the Cyclone and store it inside the ply drop box when not in use, due to its odd shape.

Regards, Tim.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 05:26 AM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 557
Thanks!......But as I said in an earlier thread, I can't take the credit for the original idea. I just developed the idea based on someone else's Cyclone Systainer. It did however, make sense to invert the Cyclone and store it inside the ply drop box when not in use, due to its odd shape.

Regards, Tim.

Yeah, inverting the cyclone for storage is the slick part.  [emoji41]


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Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 557
Now I’m wondering is the hose length will work with a CT Clone stacked on top of a CT SYS.  If it could, then the CT SYS could play a much bigger role in my workflow while never leaving the Sys Port.

Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone. 
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 11:26 PM by Scorpion »

Offline Master Carpenter

  • Posts: 89
Now I’m wondering is the hose length will work with a CT Clone stacked on top of a CT SYS.  If it could, then the CT SYS could play a much bigger role in my workflow while never leaving the Sys Port.

Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.

I was thinking along these same lines. Wondering if the separator will work with th CT SYS?  Will definitely cut down on how often I have to empty it. Was going to wait for my local dealer to have one on display so I can play around with them.
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Offline Svar

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Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.
I don't get it. You only need one hose that pulls air from cyclone into the CT. What's the problem?

Anyway, I always said the whole vac system has to be modular in sys sized blocks. You buy one motor (sys2), then snap in dust bag compartment of your choice (sys 1 through 5). Than you could have cyclone section in between designed to avoid external connecting hose. All goes on sys cart. Easy to reconfigure for the job at hand.

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 557
Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.
I don't get it. You only need one hose that pulls air from cyclone into the CT. What's the problem?

Anyway, I always said the whole vac system has to be modular in sys sized blocks. You buy one motor (sys2), then snap in dust bag compartment of your choice (sys 1 through 5). Than you could have cyclone section in between designed to avoid external connecting hose. All goes on sys cart. Easy to reconfigure for the job at hand.

You’re right, one hose not two.

Offline guitarchitect

  • Posts: 56
Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.
I don't get it. You only need one hose that pulls air from cyclone into the CT. What's the problem?

Anyway, I always said the whole vac system has to be modular in sys sized blocks. You buy one motor (sys2), then snap in dust bag compartment of your choice (sys 1 through 5). Than you could have cyclone section in between designed to avoid external connecting hose. All goes on sys cart. Easy to reconfigure for the job at hand.
It's great in theory but ultimately to get a proper cyclone you need something the size of the DD... Which I think needs a sys5.  If you have another sys 5 for your bin and a ctl midi to get good CFM airflow, the whole thing is pretty tall and likely easy to topple. A thien baffle design (like the CT cyclone) would help but at a huge CFM loss - most reports I've seen reduce airflow by about half.

I cut and chiseled a piece of plywood to sit on top of my ct26, thinking it would form the basis of a ride-along collector with a baffle, but for my situation I think side by side under a bench with extra hose/pipe to get the corners of the shop will be much easier... 98% of what I do is in my small shop so I might as well optimized for it!

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Offline Gregor

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Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.
You could put the CT SYS ontop of the pre-separator (possibly without the hose garage), should be no problem then to lead the hose (even with a straight connector end). A SYS ROLL would make this mobile, the CT is quite light so it shouldn't get that top heavy and you would have easy access to the bag to unclog / clean out the fine dust (that the pre-separator will not be able to catch as of it's design).

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 557
Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.
You could put the CT SYS ontop of the pre-separator (possibly without the hose garage), should be no problem then to lead the hose (even with a straight connector end). A SYS ROLL would make this mobile, the CT is quite light so it shouldn't get that top heavy and you would have easy access to the bag to unclog / clean out the fine dust (that the pre-separator will not be able to catch as of it's design).

I think you might be right.  Would be really compact if it worked setup like that.  I’m hesitant to pre-order but I’ll probably get one after the early adopters start to post up their opinions.

Offline jobsworth

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just gave the notice for Xmas list hehehehe

Offline Havwoods Accessories Ltd

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its been a while...
Having now had a play with the new toys i thought id post a few "real" pics.
Will certainly be a useful bit of kit to thos who generate large volumes of dust and is pretty robust and well thought out as usual, we are flooring specialists so will be putting them to test with some serious dust generating machines.. ;D ;D
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 03:05 AM by Havwoods Accessories Ltd »
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Offline jobsworth

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@Distinctive Interiors

Thanks for the info. Its a very cleaver set up u got

Offline Distinctive Interiors

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@jobsworth 

Thanks, you're welcome.

I got to try out the new Festool CT Cyclone on Monday. My local rep brought one in for me to try out. I only got to try it for a few minutes so not an extensive workout, but it seems to work very well.
I don't think it's any more efficient than my own homemade set up though, so until I get a chance to do a direct comparison, I am reserving final judgement.

Offline jmbfestool

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@jobsworth 

Thanks, you're welcome.

I got to try out the new Festool CT Cyclone on Monday. My local rep brought one in for me to try out. I only got to try it for a few minutes so not an extensive workout, but it seems to work very well.
I don't think it's any more efficient than my own homemade set up though, so until I get a chance to do a direct comparison, I am reserving final judgement.

I had a quick go with it sanding plaster dust.   
It did catch a lot of the dust but also a lot still got through into the vacuum.

If your were using for wood dust and shavings I think efficiency would be greatly increased.

Plaster dust is far finer especially the filler plaster.

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Offline Distinctive Interiors

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One thing that I  noticed whilst looking inside it, the various components all seemed to fit together quite loosely.........Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that for a Cyclone to work properly , everything had to be completely airtight or the efficiency of the separation was compromised significantly.
I mentioned the fact that all the components were loose to the Festool Rep, but he said it was for ease of taking it apart for cleaning....?!!

Another thing that struck me was the transparent drop box. I made my own from ply and fitted it inside a Sys5 coz I had read that someone previously had tried to mount a Cyclone directly to a Systainer and when the vacuum was applied, it started to crush. The transparent drop box didnt look or feel any more structurally rigid than a Systainer, if anything it felt more flimsy.

These are just my observations, not criticisms as the unit obviously works as it was designed to do, but it has got me thinking that perhaps my own set up is far more heavy duty than it needed to be. I made my Dropbox out of 18mm ply and the weight of that along with the Dust Commander  and a Sys5, is heavy in comparison with Festool's offering.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6619
One thing that I  noticed whilst looking inside it, the various components all seemed to fit together quite loosely.........Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that for a Cyclone to work properly , everything had to be completely airtight or the efficiency of the separation was compromised significantly.
I mentioned the fact that all the components were loose to the Festool Rep, but he said it was for ease of taking it apart for cleaning....?!!

Another thing that struck me was the transparent drop box. I made my own from ply and fitted it inside a Sys5 coz I had read that someone previously had tried to mount a Cyclone directly to a Systainer and when the vacuum was applied, it started to crush. The transparent drop box didnt look or feel any more structurally rigid than a Systainer, if anything it felt more flimsy.

These are just my observations, not criticisms as the unit obviously works as it was designed to do, but it has got me thinking that perhaps my own set up is far more heavy duty than it needed to be. I made my Dropbox out of 18mm ply and the weight of that along with the Dust Commander  and a Sys5, is heavy in comparison with Festool's offering.

It’s funny you mentioned about the loose parts.

When the rep showed me inside it had sealant around the joints it was first thing I noticed and thought that was rather messy as it didn’t look like it was done from factory but rather some one with a bit of spit on their finger rubbing it in.

I assumed it must have been because it might have been a prototype

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Offline Scorpion

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I wondered how the unit was sealing to the collection containers.  I assumed there was some kind of faster inside the top but it’s now sounding like that’s not the case.  Can anyone confirm if there’s a gasket or not?

Guess it would be interesting to see the results of a suction test on a vac with and without the collector.  A little loss of suction may not matter when sanding but it might matter a lot during other activities...or would it matter at all?

Offline Cheese

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1. I wondered how the unit was sealing to the collection containers.  I assumed there was some kind of faster inside the top but it’s now sounding like that’s not the case.  Can anyone confirm if there’s a gasket or not?

2. Guess it would be interesting to see the results of a suction test on a vac with and without the collector.  A little loss of suction may not matter when sanding but it might matter a lot during other activities...or would it matter at all?

1. When the Festool Roadshow came to town, Steve Bace demonstrated it for me. After using it with a Planex, he unlatched the 2 modules, removed the clear plastic tub of drywall dust and then latched the 2 halves back together and said it could be used in that more compact manner without the plastic tub. He then unlatched the 2 units and reinserted the plastic tub between them and went back to drywall sanding. I know there's not a gasket in the lower unit and I don't remember seeing a gasket on the plastic tub. Possibly there's a gasket on the upper unit?

2. There's already an excess of suction when using Festool sanders so that's probably not an issue. The only possible exception could be when using it attached to the Kapex. Any decrease in suction may compromise the dust collection of the saw. If so, maybe it's in the same realm of using the 27mm vs 36mm hose on the Kapex?

Offline ear3

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Would having this separator make a specialty vac like the CT36AC less necessary when doing larger amounts of drywall sanding, because it would reduce the amount going into the main body of the vac and the filter?
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