Author Topic: New from Festool for Europe - September 2018: CT pre separator with cyclone tech  (Read 19850 times)

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Offline Gregor

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Would having this separator make a specialty vac like the CT36AC less necessary when doing larger amounts of drywall sanding, because it would reduce the amount going into the main body of the vac and the filter?
It likely won't massively reduce the amount of very fine dust going into the filter and the fine stuff (that's just coarse enough to not pass through the filter) is what's clogging it quickly, ending good airflow.

Thus the CT AC likely won't be obsoleted.

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Offline Cheese

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It likely won't massively reduce the amount of very fine dust going into the filter and the fine stuff (that's just coarse enough to not pass through the filter) is what's clogging it quickly, ending good airflow.

I’d take the opposite tack, from what I saw, this thing collects 90% of the drywall dust which would leave the CT 36 AC in a rather neutered position.

Offline jmbfestool

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It likely won't massively reduce the amount of very fine dust going into the filter and the fine stuff (that's just coarse enough to not pass through the filter) is what's clogging it quickly, ending good airflow.

I’d take the opposite tack, from what I saw, this thing collects 90% of the drywall dust which would leave the CT 36 AC in a rather neutered position.

No way does it collect 90% on drywall.  I’ve seen it for my self it doesn’t

Even Festool don’t claim it does well the rep anyway .  He said it will hit 90%+ with wood but not plaster.
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Online Scorpion

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1. When the Festool Roadshow came to town, Steve Bace demonstrated it for me. After using it with a Planex, he unlatched the 2 modules, removed the clear plastic tub of drywall dust and then latched the 2 halves back together and said it could be used in that more compact manner without the plastic tub. He then unlatched the 2 units and reinserted the plastic tub between them and went back to drywall sanding. I know there's not a gasket in the lower unit and I don't remember seeing a gasket on the plastic tub. Possibly there's a gasket on the upper unit?

2. There's already an excess of suction when using Festool sanders so that's probably not an issue. The only possible exception could be when using it attached to the Kapex. Any decrease in suction may compromise the dust collection of the saw. If so, maybe it's in the same realm of using the 27mm vs 36mm hose on the Kapex?

Thanks, that’s good info.  Think I’ll get one.

Offline jobsworth

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I went to Anderson Plywood Thursday and had Don Ware and Klaus (the festool rep) demonstrate it for me. They used a sander and a TS 55. It collected everything no issues. I can confirm that that there is no gasket either for sealing the bin or just the 2 halves.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1965
There is no need for a gasket it the parts fit together snugly.  I use small steel drums used for grease or paint, probably 20-25 gallon for under my two steel Oneidas.  When I turn on that vacs there is an audible thump as the lid clamps down to the drum, the marvels of vacuum!

Offline Gregor

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I use small steel drums used for grease or paint, probably 20-25 gallon for under my two steel Oneidas.  When I turn on that vacs there is an audible thump as the lid clamps down to the drum, the marvels of vacuum!
In case you want to have fun with these drums: apply some real vacuum (1mbar abs and lower) instead of the slightly reduced pressure you generate with a shopvac (though one of these can already be enough to collapse lesser vessels in case the intake hose gets fully blocked).

Offline HowardH

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I know a lot of guys here are clever at designing their own versions of different things that Festool itself makes and that's great.  Some of us either aren't smart enough, don't have the patience or the time to develop our own.  I like the new Festool version of the cyclone for a few reasons.  1. even with a tub, it's almost a foot shorter than the DD.  2.  I like the clear container.  3.  Although many may disagree or not care, I like the idea that Festool designed it and it looks like it belongs.  It's like buying curb feelers for a Mercedes. They don't belong.  4.  It's only $75 more than the DD.  For some folks, that's a deal killer but for me, I don't mind spending a bit more for a Festool designed and branded product so I really don't care. 5.  I just got one of the new ct36's and using their accessories guarantees I won't screw up my $800 vac by using someone else's aftermarket product. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE

Offline jobsworth

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@HowardH

I couldnt agree more.

Offline jonathan-m

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This is what it looks like on the inside
Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
Protool: 2x VCP 260 LE AC // PDP 20-2
Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Offline jimbo51

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"... Klaus (the festool rep) demonstrate it for me. They used a sander ... "

So Sander Klaus works for Festool in the off season.

Offline Cheese

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It's like buying curb feelers for a Mercedes. 

LOL... [big grin]

Online Scorpion

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"... Klaus (the festool rep) demonstrate it for me. They used a sander ... "

So Sander Klaus works for Festool in the off season.

Don’t care who you are, that’s funny

Offline Bullterrier

  • Posts: 13
On sale in the UK now - £270 online inc VAT.

Offline jobsworth

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270 GP is around $346. if I did the math correct using the exchange rate of $1.28 = 1 GBP. So thats about what we are going to pay here in NA for it.

Offline DynaGlide

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270 GP is around $346. if I did the math correct using the exchange rate of $1.28 = 1 GBP. So thats about what we are going to pay here in NA for it.

Pricing was already announced. $375, see first page of thread.

Offline jobsworth

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Just found it at FFX.co.uk for 249 GBP

Offline jobsworth

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  • Does Anyone Know What Time It Is?
270 GP is around $346. if I did the math correct using the exchange rate of $1.28 = 1 GBP. So thats about what we are going to pay here in NA for it.

Pricing was already announced. $375, see first page of thread.

Ok 270 GBP was at toolfest, ,

I just found it for 249 GBP @ FFX .co.uk including VAT

Nuts and Bolts has it for 268 GBP,

 Europe doesnt price fix like NA does.

Offline Bullterrier

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Seems like today was stock day in the UK.

Offline tallgrass

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Subtract 19% VAT and add shipping.

Offline HowardH

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Actually got my hands on the new cyclone today.  Not for sale yet, but got a few impressions.  The tub looks a bit smallish but I don't think it's much of an issue.  The tub also rocks a bit in it's base but that would also make it very easy to remove and replace.  I didn't see a bag in the box and I thought it came with one.  It may have been in with the rest of the documentation.  I really don't think it's going to be too tall, either, nothing like the DD.  It's very solid feeling and I would imagine I could go pretty much all day without worrying about emptying the bin.  I'm convinced it's a well conceived and executed accessory and will soon find a home on top of my new CT36. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE

Offline jobsworth

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that was my impression to Howard

Offline Bullterrier

  • Posts: 13
270 GP is around $346. if I did the math correct using the exchange rate of $1.28 = 1 GBP. So thats about what we are going to pay here in NA for it.

Pricing was already announced. $375, see first page of thread.

Ok 270 GBP was at toolfest, ,

I just found it for 249 GBP @ FFX .co.uk including VAT

Nuts and Bolts has it for 268 GBP,

 Europe doesnt price fix like NA does.

One thing that comes along with laws that prevent price fixing is dealers with no stock showing a temptingly lower price that mysteriously goes back up once they actually do have stock.....

Hold on and buy from us guys.....oh wait.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Actually got my hands on the new cyclone today.  Not for sale yet, but got a few impressions.  The tub looks a bit smallish but I don't think it's much of an issue.  The tub also rocks a bit in it's base but that would also make it very easy to remove and replace.  I didn't see a bag in the box and I thought it came with one.  It may have been in with the rest of the documentation.  I really don't think it's going to be too tall, either, nothing like the DD.  It's very solid feeling and I would imagine I could go pretty much all day without worrying about emptying the bin.  I'm convinced it's a well conceived and executed accessory and will soon find a home on top of my new CT36.

I now have one on loan from Festool UK and no plastic bag was included. However, in the scope of delivery bit on the web site its states that the following is included:

   - cyclone Systainer
   - VAB-20 collection container
   - Systainer pan
   - connecting hose
   - disposal bag
   - container lid
   - in carton

The disposal bags are in short supply at the moment but will be included once the product is released to market.

I have been doing some filming of the cyclone and hope to release a video very soon - when I do I will start a new thread.

My first impressions back up what @HowardH has said. It is well made, certainly part of the "System" approach and not too tall. The Festool bags will not be cheap and in the absence of any bag with the demo kit I just used an ordinary black plastic bag - it worked fine.

Interestingly, Oneida go to a lot of effort to keep the bag seated in the their UDD drop box and have an annoying plastic tube which runs from the front of the CT to the bottom of the drop box that sucks the bag in place. There is no such arrangement with the CT VA and it works fine with a bag.

I have built several cyclones from kits and read a little about them on Bill Pentz's web site. The height of the tapered cone can have an effect on the efficiency of the cyclone as far as fine dust is concerned. This can be offset to an extent by the diameter choosen for the upper section. The CT VA 20 has a short cyclone section and so it will be interesting to see how it managed with the fine dust particularly as Festool's imaging for the product shows it in a drywall/Planex context.

I do not believe that this is aimed primarily at the static workshop user. The mobile user, particularly when working on site with other trades, will have the advantage of much longer CT bag life and easier disposal of waste.

Peter


Offline Havwoods Accessories Ltd

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Some Interesting points raised here.

We've now got stock the CT-VA and the disposable bags and getting great feedback from Contractors.
We have steered well away from NON Festool separators after seeing serious issues with static and voided warrantys etc.
(we are in the flooring game so large quantity's of dust and sparks don't mix as we all know) [eek] [scared]

If anyone's in the North West and wants to pop in for a brew and a play feel free we have one in our workshop you can have play with, Not just fire it up..actually use it with a ts55 etc. ;D [big grin]
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Offline Peter Parfitt

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Hi Everyone

I have just done the test of the CT VA 20 and I am really amazed at the separation rate which came out at 97.5% for wood debris (chips and dust).

I have captured this on video and can assure even the most sceptical person that my figures are accurate. However, I admit (and say this in the video) that my test is not truly scientific as I did not repeat it, nor did I start with a brand new CT or hose. My CT 26 is a veteran member of my workshop and so I am really pleased with the result.

Technically this would mean saving 39 bags for every 1 used although as it would be only the really fine dust making up the 2.5% that gets through I would suspect it means saving 19 bags for every 1 used. That is still a huge saving.

I did not test mineral dust and have no way of doing that.

Peter

Offline Havwoods Accessories Ltd

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Brilliant Peter!

Look forward to seeing the video as ever! [smile]
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Offline six-point socket II

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Hi!

So I saw it live at the Roadshow today and all I can say is: pictures really don't do it justice.

Sounds stupid, I know - but: Seeing this live made me suddenly realize how compact (yes it's really small) the whole system is when pieced together and what a difference that will make in any small shop or when portability is key. Personally, I think this will put a cyclone in a lot of hands that otherwise would have never bought/built one.

The clear bins and bags ... Great.

In short: I'm getting one ASAP.

Now another visitor asked the Festool rep. about compatibility with the CTL-SYS - something that I was interested in, too. Answer was: CTL-SYS has not enough power/suction/flow (whatever you wanna call it) to make this worthwhile.

I'll take this statement for what it is, but will definitely give it a try.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Havwoods Accessories Ltd

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Like this?

Just having  a play.. [big grin]
Have to say it was actually OK!

Big apologies for T-locs.... [embarassed]
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Havwoods Accessories Ltd
FESTOOL Dealer, Preston UK
01772 696600
www.havwoodsaccessories.com

Offline six-point socket II

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Yeah exactly! Great to hear, while not intended, it works.

Can't wait for mine ... :)

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver