Author Topic: New from Festool for Europe - September 2018: CT pre separator with cyclone tech  (Read 4017 times)

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Online six-point socket II

  • Posts: 637
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
Hi,

Festool just dropped this in their Instagram stories:

!All pictures copyright by Festool!









English (UK Website): https://www.festool.co.uk/campaigns/microsites/ct-va

German (Deutsche Webseite): https://www.festool.de/kampagnen/microsites/ct-va


Kind regards,
Oliver
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 12:18 PM by six-point socket II »
Kind regards,
Oliver

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline blaszcsj

  • Posts: 344
  • I like building stuff with my hands.
that is bannanas...
OF1010 EQ Router | MFT/3 | DF500Q | Carvex 420 | ETS EC 150/3 | CT 36 Auto Clean | TSC55 | LR32 | OF1400 EQ Router | ZOBO Metric Set | CXS Li 2.6 - 90 Limited Edition | Universal Cleaning Set | HKC55 | Centrotec CE-SORT | RO150 FEQ | DTS 400 | RO90 DX | CTSYS | C18 Drill | SysLite KALII | Syslite STL 450 | RAS 115 E

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3327
In the 3/4 view of the assembly in use it looks like the collection tub of the CT has been lined with a clear plastic bag. Is this a useful practice? Is it only useful with newer CT’s? Mine are older models.

Regarding the new equipment, it’s nice that it maintains the stackable nature of the Sys/tem.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1350
Integrated cyclone is long overdue, but this one looks bulky and no different from Dust Deputy products. I realize it's an afterthought and add-on to existing collectors. Household vacs are way ahead on this.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 12:55 PM by Svar »

Offline SRSemenza

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I don't see a picture that shows it but it looks to me that the upper portion attaches to the lower portion when the clear tub is removed. I wonder if the lower then becomes the collection container?

I like the idea of the removable, swap out, tub with lid.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was thinking it seemed less bulky?  [huh]

Or at least more streamlined, easy to remove and move since it is really built in to a Systainer, stackable and the cyclone is not an appendage sitting on top.

Seth

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 350
Integrated cyclone is long overdue, but this one looks bulky and no different from Dust Deputy products. I realize it's an afterthought and add-on to existing collectors. Household vacs are way ahead on this.

Run concrete dust and paint dust through your household vac and it will die very, very early  [wink]

Offline The.Handyman

  • Posts: 82
More information and photos. I am excited.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Offline ceddy

  • Posts: 139
I don't see a picture that shows it but it looks to me that the upper portion attaches to the lower portion when the clear tub is removed. I wonder if the lower then becomes the collection container?

Seems like that's the case, but the bottom portion would probably fill really fast and the cyclone seems to extend bellow the top systainer. The buckets are a cool idea. Like many festool things though, unless you are a road warrior, not much incentive to upgrade from a Dust deputy.

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 881
Don't have a Dust Deputy so I'll likely get the festool verion..
RO 150, 850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1350
Integrated cyclone is long overdue, but this one looks bulky and no different from Dust Deputy products. I realize it's an afterthought and add-on to existing collectors. Household vacs are way ahead on this.
Run concrete dust and paint dust through your household vac and it will die very, very early  [wink]
I wasn't talking about job specific post filters. I was pointing out integration of the functional parts into a very compact package with outstanding separation efficiency. All that while maintaining great suction and static pressure.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 04:33 PM by Svar »

Offline Bhend18

  • Posts: 188
    • Hendricks Construction
What would be the benefit of owning multiple bins if you use the liners?
Domino DF 500, CT 36 E, Boom Arm Set, CT MIDI, OF 1400, LR 32, FS 2424/2-LR 32, FS 1400/2 LR32, TS 55 REQ, TS 75 EQ, HKC 55 EB, FS 800, FS 1080, FS 1900, FS 3000, FSK 250, FSK 420, Parallel Guide Set, MFT/3, Kapex KS 120, Kapex UG, CXS, PDC 18/4, Drilling Dust Nozzle, CMS-GE, Carvex PS 420 EBQ, Pro 5 LTD,RO 90 DX, RO 150 FEQ, RTS 400 REQ, RS 2 E, LS 130 EQ, RAS 115 E, HL 850 E-F Plus, MX 1200 E EF, CT Wings, Vecturo OS 400, SysLite KAL-2, SYSRock

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1350
What would be the benefit of owning multiple bins if you use the liners?
Higher corporate profit.  [big grin]

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 104
What would be the benefit of owning multiple bins if you use the liners?

Try picking up a 50 lbs sack of flour that uses a bread bag as the bag.  The bag keeps it all together, the liner is so the clear tubs down get dirty, so at the end of the day, you have everything clean.  So when you go home you can use the tubs to let the next days bread dough rise.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 104
Looks nice and probably the route I will go. But the more I look at the photos the more it looks like the tub doesn't package up within the 2 systainer halves  [unsure] .  At first glance I was assuming you flipped things around and everything packages up into the 1 systainer for nice storage.  That's after all part of the benefit here over other solutions is it packs up nice and goes back into someones infinite stack of systainers.

I'm not generally one to complain about price, but that looks to be rather high for something that is just a couple bits of molded plastic.

Now how many years till they make one that processes sawdust into wood pellets for stoves.  End of the day you have a bin full of wood pellets.  Have a bonus shredder on top that process scraps into dust and feeds into the pellet maker systainer.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 834
Some thoughts:

Extraction will likely be less than what a DD can archive, especially on the fine dust fraction, as of the geometry:
The cone of a cyclone is ment to accelerate the particles so that they'll have enough momentum to continue on downward and separate from the airstream at its turning point. The festool thing looks like a dustcan type extractor, while these are somewhat OK for bigger particles these usually fail at the smaller/fine fraction. Might be OK to use with the CT in AC mode and a Planex (as depicted), or to collect chips from a router (unless these tend to clog inside the inlet as it has a narrowing section) - but I suspect a DD will overall perform better (especially when sanding with higher grits).

The bins being transparent is good so you can watch the fill grade, question though is if the bag won't simply turn opaque and leaving you non the wiser. I dislike how the bins are stacking though, they're not deep enough to fit the lids, so you can't put a lid on the top one leading to you being unable to stack something ontop as there isn't an even surface (or you'll have to also stack the lids, opposed to how it's depicted). The rim (and handles) could have been created different (smaller, with the latch of the top systainer going into the handle instead of an extra slot) to give a better stacking ratio than 5:2 (excluding the lids that protrude over the topmost bin) that can be deducted from the bin carrying picture.

The bottom adaptor dosn't seem to be able to lock onto the bins, thus there dosn't seem to be a single-hand way (as the handle on the top systainer most likely can't be used) to lift the CT over an obstacle. But it looks like it'll have enough space though to store the additional hose for transport. Possibly it can be used without a bin (just a liner bag in the bottom part) for ~1/3 of the capacity of a bin, but that will have the downside of no visibility at all.

EDIT:
It dosn't look like it's worth spending (all prices as of the german homepage incl. VAT) 416,50€ on it - or 184,45€ on a 3 pack of bins (that's 61,48€/ piece) or 83,30€ in case you buy one in a single pack (that's 3€ less than a SYS-5). Comparing the pricing for the bins to the 41,65 € they call for the part (a socket with short extension and plug) that moves the outlet to the top part of the pre-extractor (which seems to be a must-have in case you want to use a sleeved hose) makes that part look cheap in comparison.

Given that similar sized transparent containers (20L) can be at obtained at IKEA for less than 5€ (which would make them 10€ when molded in thicker to have higher stability) I can only assert that such ripoff pricing dosn't make me want to continue buying their products...
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 10:24 AM by Gregor »

Offline Reiska

  • Posts: 1160
  • Hackers build things, Crackers break them.
What I don't understand is why didn't they make the bottom part as a TL4 or TL5 sized systainer with a side window and just omit the removable plastic monstrosity?

Or even better, just make a T-loc lid with the cut-out and attachment point to be able to fit it to any T-loc body of your choise so one could decide how large of a container they need.

For my woodworking I could probably easily get away with a TL3 as the receptacle under the cyclone module and be done with it - empty once a day and after routing operations.
The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. [big grin]

Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 554
Has anyone seen mention of the capacity?

Using my CT26 with a lunchbox thicknesses it fills up very quickly; I'd like to see a much bigger bin than 26 litres.

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline PeterK

  • Posts: 960
The really short cone of the cyclone makes me question its ability to separate finer materials. The bottom box appears to only function as a housing base. My Oneida DD works extremely well and only costs about $100 but it is clunky. I made a base for the bucket that latches to my C.T. but it is not as nice or easy to transport as the Festool design.
This gizmo might appeal to the professional commercial users but makes no real economic sense for a hobbiest as I can purchase a lot of bags for the approximate $400 cost to this. Will be curious to actual users reporting on how well it works.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 834
Has anyone seen mention of the capacity?
The bins are listed on the festool.de site as 20L.

Offline SRSemenza

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Has anyone seen mention of the capacity?

Using my CT26 with a lunchbox thicknesses it fills up very quickly; I'd like to see a much bigger bin than 26 litres.

Andrew

The bins would probably be faster and easier to empty compared to the CT26 bottom. Realistically even 100 liters would fill fast from a planer. I have a CT33 in the shop but even when running the HL850 for a few passes I use an old, big, 16 gallon Craftsman vac due to the fast fill of the CT bag.


Seth

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7337
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    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
I hate to be negative, but this is just another example of Festool coming to the game way too late, and overpriced.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 97
A lot of discussion about this new Festool product on this thread and the concurrent thread: “CT CYCLONE Pre-Seperator: Coming To NA...”.
And in them both are a good number of “how Festool SHOULD have done it” posts...
Months before any buyer/users have actually had the chance to use it.
BOTTOM LINE: This is what Festool’s offering. It is what it is. Take it... Or leave it.

When one evaluates the purchase of any new Festool product - It needs to be done in the context of Festool’s GERMAN/European focus on their PRIMARY market - The worksite TRADESMAN - An enormously larger customer base than the woodworkers’ market.
Hence, their clear focus on “mobile” products: MFTs, Systainers, Mobile Dust Extractors, Battery powered hand tools, etc. And now their “add-on” Separator.
IMO - If you’re a “Road Warrior” - Hauling your Dust Extractor from job site to job site -
This looks like a terrific improvement to the present circumstance.
I’d most likely buy one - And 2-3 extra of the collection tubs.

If your woodworking is done “in the shop” - Like me - I for one - Am not interested.
I’ll stick with my -
Oneida ALL STEEL Heavy-Duty Dust Deputy 2" DIY Cyclone Separator ($199)
https://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD001002&CatId=%7B2C6BB449-99F9-4CB9-BC27-CAF1BB570002%7D
And my -
Oneida Super Dust Deputy® 17 Gal. Steel Drum Kit $101
https://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=SXK170601&CatId=%7BA34256DD-0599-4A53-B7BA-EB8FB4C63260%7D
WHY:
1.
It’s a TRUE CYCLONE - Virtually TOTAL - KNOWN - separation.
2.
It’s an ALL STEEL product - Not a plastic “whanna be”.
And... While I presume Festool has built into their new Separator “anti-static” properties to avoid “frying” the electronics of their Dust Extractors - I KNOW - From years of experience - That my ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum setup is safe for my Festool DE’s.
3.
PRICE - The ALL STEEL - TRUE CYCLONE and DRUM - Costs $199 + $101 = $300
$75 - 20% LESS - Than Festool’s $375 (U.S) PLASTIC Separator.
I know... Not as cheap as the plastic Dust Deputy/plastic bucket setup.
But, if you’re buying Festool tools at measurably higher prices - Why not an ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum. I decided to pay a little more - Do it right - Do it once.
MY CONCLUSION:
My woodworking’s done in my shop. I’ll stick with what’s working for me.
Proven Cyclone “Total” Separation - Known to be Safe for my Festool Dust Extractors - Cheaper.

DISCLAIMER: I don’t work for/receive any compensation from Oneida. I bought the products.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 11:37 AM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1350
It’s an ALL STEEL product - Not a plastic “whanna be”.
Does it matter? It's not a subject to serious stress and there is no moving parts. My plastic DD will outlast me three times over. And it does not rust, so when archaeologists dig up my shop it'll still be there and intact.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3327
The chief value of the new Festool semi-cyclone separator is that it is more mobile than most and is the only one that allows you to stack stuff on top.

Offline Kevin D.

  • Posts: 890
The chief value of the new Festool semi-cyclone separator is that it is more mobile than most and is the only one that allows you to stack stuff on top.

Bingo!
Kapex, CT-SYS, SYS-Cart, Pro 5 Sander, CT36AC, TS75, MFT 1080, MF-SYS/2, PS300 EQ-Plus, Parallel Guides Set, LR32 SYS, RO 150FEQ-Plus, OF1400 EQ Plus, DOMINO 500 Q-Plus,  Domino XL, MFK 700 EQ-Set, FS-SYS/2, CT22 w/hose storage, D36HW-RS-Plus, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, FS 1080/2-LR32, FS 1400/2-LR32, Gecko, Festool Floor Mat, Festool Stein, Multi-Tool, tape measure, large and small Festool floor mats (foam rubber).

Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 554
Thanks to those that supplied the capacity info.

£400 is quite a lot to be able to see the bag fill.  I'll have to see it in the flesh and understand if it has any other benefits I'm missing.

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline Kevin D.

  • Posts: 890
I just found the Festool Canada product links for the Festool seperator.

https://www.festoolcanada.com/en-ca/products/dust-extraction/pre-separator/204083---ct-va-20?_ga=2.136252593.1480235752.1531241825-1184194170.1531241825

You guys in the US, just go to the bottom and toggle over to the Festool USA site.
Kapex, CT-SYS, SYS-Cart, Pro 5 Sander, CT36AC, TS75, MFT 1080, MF-SYS/2, PS300 EQ-Plus, Parallel Guides Set, LR32 SYS, RO 150FEQ-Plus, OF1400 EQ Plus, DOMINO 500 Q-Plus,  Domino XL, MFK 700 EQ-Set, FS-SYS/2, CT22 w/hose storage, D36HW-RS-Plus, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, FS 1080/2-LR32, FS 1400/2-LR32, Gecko, Festool Floor Mat, Festool Stein, Multi-Tool, tape measure, large and small Festool floor mats (foam rubber).

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 97
SVAR -
Thx for reading/commenting on my post. FYI... I think that you missed my point.
You apparently didn’t read (or understand) the next sentence.
Having an ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum setup has NEVER been about DURABILITY.
At my age - Both plastic or steel/metal - And my life insurance - Have greater longevity.[wink]

I read the multitude of FOG posts about plastic Dust Deputies - And the travails of “fried” Festool Dust Extractors.
I also read about the “fixes” FOG members were trying - “Jerry-rigging” DD’s and hoses together - To avoid “frying” the electronics of their Dust Extractors.
I didn’t want to be running copper tape/wire from part to part - Hoping to make a continuously grounded connection to keep me/my Dust Extractors safe/working.
I KNOW that my ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum setup is grounded sitting on my concrete workshop floor. A friend - A licensed commercial electrician - Has tested it.
Hence... My use and (more than once) recommendation.
The $75 - 20% Cost Savings is just “icing on the cake”. [smile]

MICHAEL K -
I agree with you.
The primary value of spending $375 (U.S.) on the new Festool Separator is it’s mobility.
Stationary - In a shop... Not so much.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 04:40 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline Distinctive Interiors

  • Posts: 316
  • Modern Kitchen Specialist
    • distinterior.com
I made my own cyclone in a Sys5. The cyclone itself, an anti static Dust Commander, along with the plywood lid, inverts and fits inside the Sys5 and then packs away.

[ Specified attachment is not available ]











« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 04:53 PM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1350
SVAR -
Thx for reading/commenting on my post. FYI... I think that you missed my point.
You apparently didn’t read (or understand) the next sentence.
Having an ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum setup has NEVER been about DURABILITY.
At my age - Both plastic or steel/metal - And my life insurance - Have greater longevity.[wink]
I read the multitude of FOG posts about plastic Dust Deputies - And the travails of “fried” Festool Dust Extractors.

You are wrong. The latest plastic Dust Deputy cyclone is CONDUCTIVE. Designed specifically for CTs.