Author Topic: New from Festool for Europe - September 2018: CT pre separator with cyclone tech  (Read 6861 times)

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Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 675
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
Hi,

Festool just dropped this in their Instagram stories:

!All pictures copyright by Festool!









English (UK Website): https://www.festool.co.uk/campaigns/microsites/ct-va

German (Deutsche Webseite): https://www.festool.de/kampagnen/microsites/ct-va


Kind regards,
Oliver
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 12:18 PM by six-point socket II »
Kind regards,
Oliver

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline blaszcsj

  • Posts: 355
  • I like building stuff with my hands.
that is bannanas...
OF1010 EQ Router | MFT/3 | DF500Q | Carvex 420 | ETS EC 150/3 | CT 36 Auto Clean | TSC55 | LR32 | OF1400 EQ Router | ZOBO Metric Set | CXS Li 2.6 - 90 Limited Edition | Universal Cleaning Set | HKC55 | Centrotec CE-SORT | RO150 FEQ | DTS 400 | RO90 DX | CTSYS | C18 Drill | SysLite KALII | Syslite STL 450 | RAS 115 E

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3394
In the 3/4 view of the assembly in use it looks like the collection tub of the CT has been lined with a clear plastic bag. Is this a useful practice? Is it only useful with newer CT’s? Mine are older models.

Regarding the new equipment, it’s nice that it maintains the stackable nature of the Sys/tem.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1370
Integrated cyclone is long overdue, but this one looks bulky and no different from Dust Deputy products. I realize it's an afterthought and add-on to existing collectors. Household vacs are way ahead on this.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 12:55 PM by Svar »

Offline SRSemenza

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  • Posts: 8471
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I don't see a picture that shows it but it looks to me that the upper portion attaches to the lower portion when the clear tub is removed. I wonder if the lower then becomes the collection container?

I like the idea of the removable, swap out, tub with lid.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was thinking it seemed less bulky?  [huh]

Or at least more streamlined, easy to remove and move since it is really built in to a Systainer, stackable and the cyclone is not an appendage sitting on top.

Seth

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 359
Integrated cyclone is long overdue, but this one looks bulky and no different from Dust Deputy products. I realize it's an afterthought and add-on to existing collectors. Household vacs are way ahead on this.

Run concrete dust and paint dust through your household vac and it will die very, very early  [wink]

Offline The.Handyman

  • Posts: 87
More information and photos. I am excited.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Offline ceddy

  • Posts: 140
I don't see a picture that shows it but it looks to me that the upper portion attaches to the lower portion when the clear tub is removed. I wonder if the lower then becomes the collection container?

Seems like that's the case, but the bottom portion would probably fill really fast and the cyclone seems to extend bellow the top systainer. The buckets are a cool idea. Like many festool things though, unless you are a road warrior, not much incentive to upgrade from a Dust deputy.

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 889
Don't have a Dust Deputy so I'll likely get the festool verion..
RO 150, 850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1370
Integrated cyclone is long overdue, but this one looks bulky and no different from Dust Deputy products. I realize it's an afterthought and add-on to existing collectors. Household vacs are way ahead on this.
Run concrete dust and paint dust through your household vac and it will die very, very early  [wink]
I wasn't talking about job specific post filters. I was pointing out integration of the functional parts into a very compact package with outstanding separation efficiency. All that while maintaining great suction and static pressure.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 04:33 PM by Svar »

Offline Bhend18

  • Posts: 188
    • Hendricks Construction
What would be the benefit of owning multiple bins if you use the liners?
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Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1370
What would be the benefit of owning multiple bins if you use the liners?
Higher corporate profit.  [big grin]

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 134
What would be the benefit of owning multiple bins if you use the liners?

Try picking up a 50 lbs sack of flour that uses a bread bag as the bag.  The bag keeps it all together, the liner is so the clear tubs down get dirty, so at the end of the day, you have everything clean.  So when you go home you can use the tubs to let the next days bread dough rise.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 134
Looks nice and probably the route I will go. But the more I look at the photos the more it looks like the tub doesn't package up within the 2 systainer halves  [unsure] .  At first glance I was assuming you flipped things around and everything packages up into the 1 systainer for nice storage.  That's after all part of the benefit here over other solutions is it packs up nice and goes back into someones infinite stack of systainers.

I'm not generally one to complain about price, but that looks to be rather high for something that is just a couple bits of molded plastic.

Now how many years till they make one that processes sawdust into wood pellets for stoves.  End of the day you have a bin full of wood pellets.  Have a bonus shredder on top that process scraps into dust and feeds into the pellet maker systainer.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 896
Some thoughts:

Extraction will likely be less than what a DD can archive, especially on the fine dust fraction, as of the geometry:
The cone of a cyclone is ment to accelerate the particles so that they'll have enough momentum to continue on downward and separate from the airstream at its turning point. The festool thing looks like a dustcan type extractor, while these are somewhat OK for bigger particles these usually fail at the smaller/fine fraction. Might be OK to use with the CT in AC mode and a Planex (as depicted), or to collect chips from a router (unless these tend to clog inside the inlet as it has a narrowing section) - but I suspect a DD will overall perform better (especially when sanding with higher grits).

The bins being transparent is good so you can watch the fill grade, question though is if the bag won't simply turn opaque and leaving you non the wiser. I dislike how the bins are stacking though, they're not deep enough to fit the lids, so you can't put a lid on the top one leading to you being unable to stack something ontop as there isn't an even surface (or you'll have to also stack the lids, opposed to how it's depicted). The rim (and handles) could have been created different (smaller, with the latch of the top systainer going into the handle instead of an extra slot) to give a better stacking ratio than 5:2 (excluding the lids that protrude over the topmost bin) that can be deducted from the bin carrying picture.

The bottom adaptor dosn't seem to be able to lock onto the bins, thus there dosn't seem to be a single-hand way (as the handle on the top systainer most likely can't be used) to lift the CT over an obstacle. But it looks like it'll have enough space though to store the additional hose for transport. Possibly it can be used without a bin (just a liner bag in the bottom part) for ~1/3 of the capacity of a bin, but that will have the downside of no visibility at all.

EDIT:
It dosn't look like it's worth spending (all prices as of the german homepage incl. VAT) 416,50€ on it - or 184,45€ on a 3 pack of bins (that's 61,48€/ piece) or 83,30€ in case you buy one in a single pack (that's 3€ less than a SYS-5). Comparing the pricing for the bins to the 41,65 € they call for the part (a socket with short extension and plug) that moves the outlet to the top part of the pre-extractor (which seems to be a must-have in case you want to use a sleeved hose) makes that part look cheap in comparison.

Given that similar sized transparent containers (20L) can be at obtained at IKEA for less than 5€ (which would make them 10€ when molded in thicker to have higher stability) I can only assert that such ripoff pricing dosn't make me want to continue buying their products...
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 10:24 AM by Gregor »

Offline Reiska

  • Posts: 1160
  • Hackers build things, Crackers break them.
What I don't understand is why didn't they make the bottom part as a TL4 or TL5 sized systainer with a side window and just omit the removable plastic monstrosity?

Or even better, just make a T-loc lid with the cut-out and attachment point to be able to fit it to any T-loc body of your choise so one could decide how large of a container they need.

For my woodworking I could probably easily get away with a TL3 as the receptacle under the cyclone module and be done with it - empty once a day and after routing operations.
The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. [big grin]

Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 559
Has anyone seen mention of the capacity?

Using my CT26 with a lunchbox thicknesses it fills up very quickly; I'd like to see a much bigger bin than 26 litres.

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline PeterK

  • Posts: 963
The really short cone of the cyclone makes me question its ability to separate finer materials. The bottom box appears to only function as a housing base. My Oneida DD works extremely well and only costs about $100 but it is clunky. I made a base for the bucket that latches to my C.T. but it is not as nice or easy to transport as the Festool design.
This gizmo might appeal to the professional commercial users but makes no real economic sense for a hobbiest as I can purchase a lot of bags for the approximate $400 cost to this. Will be curious to actual users reporting on how well it works.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 896
Has anyone seen mention of the capacity?
The bins are listed on the festool.de site as 20L.

Offline SRSemenza

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  • Posts: 8471
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Has anyone seen mention of the capacity?

Using my CT26 with a lunchbox thicknesses it fills up very quickly; I'd like to see a much bigger bin than 26 litres.

Andrew

The bins would probably be faster and easier to empty compared to the CT26 bottom. Realistically even 100 liters would fill fast from a planer. I have a CT33 in the shop but even when running the HL850 for a few passes I use an old, big, 16 gallon Craftsman vac due to the fast fill of the CT bag.


Seth

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7345
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
I hate to be negative, but this is just another example of Festool coming to the game way too late, and overpriced.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 111
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
A lot of discussion about this new Festool product on this thread and the concurrent thread: “CT CYCLONE Pre-Seperator: Coming To NA...”.
And in them both are a good number of “how Festool SHOULD have done it” posts...
Months before any buyer/users have actually had the chance to use it.
BOTTOM LINE: This is what Festool’s offering. It is what it is. Take it... Or leave it.

When one evaluates the purchase of any new Festool product - It needs to be done in the context of Festool’s GERMAN/European focus on their PRIMARY market - The worksite TRADESMAN - An enormously larger customer base than the woodworkers’ market.
Hence, their clear focus on “mobile” products: MFTs, Systainers, Mobile Dust Extractors, Battery powered hand tools, etc. And now their “add-on” Separator.
IMO - If you’re a “Road Warrior” - Hauling your Dust Extractor from job site to job site -
This looks like a terrific improvement to the present circumstance.
I’d most likely buy one - And 2-3 extra of the collection tubs.

If your woodworking is done “in the shop” - Like me - I for one - Am not interested.
I’ll stick with my -
Oneida ALL STEEL Heavy-Duty Dust Deputy 2" DIY Cyclone Separator ($199)
https://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD001002&CatId=%7B2C6BB449-99F9-4CB9-BC27-CAF1BB570002%7D
And my -
Oneida Super Dust Deputy® 17 Gal. Steel Drum Kit $101
https://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=SXK170601&CatId=%7BA34256DD-0599-4A53-B7BA-EB8FB4C63260%7D
WHY:
1.
It’s a TRUE CYCLONE - Virtually TOTAL - KNOWN - separation.
2.
It’s an ALL STEEL product - Not a plastic “whanna be”.
And... While I presume Festool has built into their new Separator “anti-static” properties to avoid “frying” the electronics of their Dust Extractors - I KNOW - From years of experience - That my ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum setup is safe for my Festool DE’s.
3.
PRICE - The ALL STEEL - TRUE CYCLONE and DRUM - Costs $199 + $101 = $300
$75 - 20% LESS - Than Festool’s $375 (U.S) PLASTIC Separator.
I know... Not as cheap as the plastic Dust Deputy/plastic bucket setup.
But, if you’re buying Festool tools at measurably higher prices - Why not an ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum. I decided to pay a little more - Do it right - Do it once.
MY CONCLUSION:
My woodworking’s done in my shop. I’ll stick with what’s working for me.
Proven Cyclone “Total” Separation - Known to be Safe for my Festool Dust Extractors - Cheaper.

DISCLAIMER: I don’t work for/receive any compensation from Oneida. I bought the products.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 11:37 AM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1370
It’s an ALL STEEL product - Not a plastic “whanna be”.
Does it matter? It's not a subject to serious stress and there is no moving parts. My plastic DD will outlast me three times over. And it does not rust, so when archaeologists dig up my shop it'll still be there and intact.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3394
The chief value of the new Festool semi-cyclone separator is that it is more mobile than most and is the only one that allows you to stack stuff on top.

Offline Kevin D.

  • Posts: 899
The chief value of the new Festool semi-cyclone separator is that it is more mobile than most and is the only one that allows you to stack stuff on top.

Bingo!
Kapex, CT-SYS, SYS-Cart, Pro 5 Sander, CT36AC, TS75, MFT 1080, MF-SYS/2, PS300 EQ-Plus, Parallel Guides Set, LR32 SYS, RO 150FEQ-Plus, OF1400 EQ Plus, DOMINO 500 Q-Plus,  Domino XL, MFK 700 EQ-Set, FS-SYS/2, CT22 w/hose storage, D36HW-RS-Plus, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, FS 1080/2-LR32, FS 1400/2-LR32, Gecko, Festool Floor Mat, Festool Stein, Multi-Tool, tape measure, large and small Festool floor mats (foam rubber).

Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 559
Thanks to those that supplied the capacity info.

£400 is quite a lot to be able to see the bag fill.  I'll have to see it in the flesh and understand if it has any other benefits I'm missing.

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline Kevin D.

  • Posts: 899
I just found the Festool Canada product links for the Festool seperator.

https://www.festoolcanada.com/en-ca/products/dust-extraction/pre-separator/204083---ct-va-20?_ga=2.136252593.1480235752.1531241825-1184194170.1531241825

You guys in the US, just go to the bottom and toggle over to the Festool USA site.
Kapex, CT-SYS, SYS-Cart, Pro 5 Sander, CT36AC, TS75, MFT 1080, MF-SYS/2, PS300 EQ-Plus, Parallel Guides Set, LR32 SYS, RO 150FEQ-Plus, OF1400 EQ Plus, DOMINO 500 Q-Plus,  Domino XL, MFK 700 EQ-Set, FS-SYS/2, CT22 w/hose storage, D36HW-RS-Plus, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, FS 1080/2-LR32, FS 1400/2-LR32, Gecko, Festool Floor Mat, Festool Stein, Multi-Tool, tape measure, large and small Festool floor mats (foam rubber).

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 111
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
SVAR -
Thx for reading/commenting on my post. FYI... I think that you missed my point.
You apparently didn’t read (or understand) the next sentence.
Having an ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum setup has NEVER been about DURABILITY.
At my age - Both plastic or steel/metal - And my life insurance - Have greater longevity.[wink]

I read the multitude of FOG posts about plastic Dust Deputies - And the travails of “fried” Festool Dust Extractors.
I also read about the “fixes” FOG members were trying - “Jerry-rigging” DD’s and hoses together - To avoid “frying” the electronics of their Dust Extractors.
I didn’t want to be running copper tape/wire from part to part - Hoping to make a continuously grounded connection to keep me/my Dust Extractors safe/working.
I KNOW that my ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum setup is grounded sitting on my concrete workshop floor. A friend - A licensed commercial electrician - Has tested it.
Hence... My use and (more than once) recommendation.
The $75 - 20% Cost Savings is just “icing on the cake”. [smile]

MICHAEL K -
I agree with you.
The primary value of spending $375 (U.S.) on the new Festool Separator is it’s mobility.
Stationary - In a shop... Not so much.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 04:40 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline Distinctive Interiors

  • Posts: 324
  • Modern Kitchen Specialist
    • distinterior.com
I made my own cyclone in a Sys5. The cyclone itself, an anti static Dust Commander, along with the plywood lid, inverts and fits inside the Sys5 and then packs away.

[ Specified attachment is not available ]











« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 05:20 AM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1370
SVAR -
Thx for reading/commenting on my post. FYI... I think that you missed my point.
You apparently didn’t read (or understand) the next sentence.
Having an ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum setup has NEVER been about DURABILITY.
At my age - Both plastic or steel/metal - And my life insurance - Have greater longevity.[wink]
I read the multitude of FOG posts about plastic Dust Deputies - And the travails of “fried” Festool Dust Extractors.

You are wrong. The latest plastic Dust Deputy cyclone is CONDUCTIVE. Designed specifically for CTs.

Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2575
SVAR -
Thx for reading/commenting on my post. FYI... I think that you missed my point.
You apparently didn’t read (or understand) the next sentence.
Having an ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum setup has NEVER been about DURABILITY.
At my age - Both plastic or steel/metal - And my life insurance - Have greater longevity.[wink]
I read the multitude of FOG posts about plastic Dust Deputies - And the travails of “fried” Festool Dust Extractors.

You are wrong. The latest plastic Dust Deputy cyclone is CONDUCTIVE. Designed specifically for CTs.

Yep, I was just about to reply to Joe's post on this. It took Oneida a long, long time to finally make a DD from a material that was conductive enough to eliminate the static discharge issue on CT extractors. So, now their newer black plastic DD will work as needed. And their newer UDD with the black plastic cyclone is going to be a better solution than trying to mount a steel drum and steel cyclone on top of your CT. Just too bad it took Oneida so very long to correct their product -- especially when they were told of both the situation and the solution here repeatedly.
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1370
I made my own cyclone in a Sys5. The cyclone itself, an anti static Dust Commander, along with the plywood lid, inverts and fits inside the Sys5 and then packs away.
Brilliant!

Online Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 317
I made my own cyclone in a Sys5. The cyclone itself, an anti static Dust Commander, along with the plywood lid, inverts and fits inside the Sys5 and then packs away.

Very clever idea.  Cyclones require tight seals between the cyclone and collector bin to be effective.  Can you share what you used?

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 111
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
SVAR / CORWIN:
Thx for the info/correction. Accepted.
Glad it works for you.[smile]
All the same, I’ll stick with my setup. Works for me.[wink]
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline bwehman

  • Posts: 27
I’m curious how the liner stays in place without that little vacuum hose that the Oneida DD includes; the one that creates negative pressure on the backside of the bag.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6619
I made my own cyclone in a Sys5. The cyclone itself, an anti static Dust Commander, along with the plywood lid, inverts and fits inside the Sys5 and then packs away.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Would have thought that’s something Festool would have done.   

Does the shorter hose fit inside the sys 5 aswell when the cyclone is inverted?

Just a simple and safe way transporting the cyclone in one hand cyclone  sys5 with short hose inside  and your other hand Festool vac with long hose in hose carriage which could have sanded attached so you could carry tool vac and cyclone all in one trip.

Then you have festools setup 😂😂🤣 gotta do atleast double the amount of trips or more.

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Offline jobsworth

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 @Distinctive Interiors

Thats a pretty slick set up. Please provide more info. How effectively does  it collects dust etc.

 Im interested in building something like that as Im started to do some on site work and Im tired of emptying the CT bags .

Anything to save a few quid and make life easier is always a good thing.

Offline Distinctive Interiors

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I got the idea to make it from a similar set up someone on here came up with a few years ago.

I tend to use 36mm A/S hoses for the majority of my cutting and routing, so there is not enough room inside the Sys5 for a short hose and the inverted Cyclone.

The 18mm plywood drop box is screwed and glued together and all joints sealed with Silicone sealant. The plywood top is a relatively snug fit in the rebate and although not a perfectly airtight seal, the drop box seems to work pretty well. I use mine mostly out on job sites and have had a lot of positive comments from other trades and clients.

The inlet and outlet pipes on the Cyclone don't fit the Festool hose ends. The spigots are slightly too small, so I bought 2 Festool 50mm straight couplings and wrapped the Cyclone spigots with aluminium conductive tape tò ensure I had electrical conductivity.

Overall, the set up suits my work method and I am happy with its efficiency.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 12:32 PM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline Gregor

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The 18mm plywood drop box is screwed and glued together and all joints sealed with Silicone sealant. The plywood top is a relatively snug fit in the rebate and although not a perfectly airtight seal, the drop box seems to work pretty well.
The seal of the collector box is very important to the effectiveness as even small leaks will massively reduce the separation, starting with the finest fraction. In case you get too much fine dust in the CT bag it might be worth to look at the seam between box and top, adding a rubber or foam seal there should help you get rid of any remaining leaks.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 567
When I first saw the one image of just the product (last week? Monday?), I laughed at it.   
Now that I've seen the set of marketing photos demonstrating onsite use... ok, now I get it.   

Whether it's a good product or not is something we'll have to wait and see.
However, based on looks, if I was sanding drywall all day (or doing concrete), this is totally better than the other options out there.

Just swap dust bins everytime you fill up.  At the end of the day, tie the bags up, lift the bin (the one that says Festool) over the bin (the one that says "Waste") let gravity do the job; no plumes and no dead back from lifting a bag. 

I used to hand schlep bags of instant concrete by the trailer load, and soil, and waste bags filled with offcuts and other misc garbage... I get this product.  I get it a lot.   [big grin]

For concrete and drywall, just imagine how much nicer this is than option a.   
And yes, the concrete industry is buying Festool dust extractors.   So, I don't see this as a Dust Deputy replacement.  I see this
as them seeing where the dust collectors have been getting sold and addressing that market's needs. 


Offline Scorpion

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The chief value of the new Festool semi-cyclone separator is that it is more mobile than most and is the only one that allows you to stack stuff on top.

And that’s i ruggedly portable (at least as rugged as a systainer).  A DD wouldn’t live through daily transport and in/out of the truck for the working man.

I made my own cyclone in a Sys5. The cyclone itself, an anti static Dust Commander, along with the plywood lid, inverts and fits inside the Sys5 and then packs away.

UNLESS you did something like this.  A very brilliant idea sir!!  I’ve had some thoughts about making a cyclone in a systainer but got hung up on how to collect.  I was thinking of stacking two systainers on top of each other - top is the cyclone, bottom was the collector.  Your idea is way better.



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Offline Distinctive Interiors

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Thanks!......But as I said in an earlier post, I can't take the credit for the original idea. I just developed the idea based on someone else's Cyclone Systainer. It did however, make sense to invert the Cyclone and store it inside the ply drop box when not in use, due to its odd shape.

Regards, Tim.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 05:26 AM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline Scorpion

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Thanks!......But as I said in an earlier thread, I can't take the credit for the original idea. I just developed the idea based on someone else's Cyclone Systainer. It did however, make sense to invert the Cyclone and store it inside the ply drop box when not in use, due to its odd shape.

Regards, Tim.

Yeah, inverting the cyclone for storage is the slick part.  [emoji41]


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Offline Scorpion

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Now I’m wondering is the hose length will work with a CT Clone stacked on top of a CT SYS.  If it could, then the CT SYS could play a much bigger role in my workflow while never leaving the Sys Port.

Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone. 
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 11:26 PM by Scorpion »

Offline Master Carpenter

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Now I’m wondering is the hose length will work with a CT Clone stacked on top of a CT SYS.  If it could, then the CT SYS could play a much bigger role in my workflow while never leaving the Sys Port.

Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.

I was thinking along these same lines. Wondering if the separator will work with th CT SYS?  Will definitely cut down on how often I have to empty it. Was going to wait for my local dealer to have one on display so I can play around with them.
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Offline Svar

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Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.
I don't get it. You only need one hose that pulls air from cyclone into the CT. What's the problem?

Anyway, I always said the whole vac system has to be modular in sys sized blocks. You buy one motor (sys2), then snap in dust bag compartment of your choice (sys 1 through 5). Than you could have cyclone section in between designed to avoid external connecting hose. All goes on sys cart. Easy to reconfigure for the job at hand.

Offline Scorpion

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Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.
I don't get it. You only need one hose that pulls air from cyclone into the CT. What's the problem?

Anyway, I always said the whole vac system has to be modular in sys sized blocks. You buy one motor (sys2), then snap in dust bag compartment of your choice (sys 1 through 5). Than you could have cyclone section in between designed to avoid external connecting hose. All goes on sys cart. Easy to reconfigure for the job at hand.

You’re right, one hose not two.

Offline guitarchitect

  • Posts: 56
Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.
I don't get it. You only need one hose that pulls air from cyclone into the CT. What's the problem?

Anyway, I always said the whole vac system has to be modular in sys sized blocks. You buy one motor (sys2), then snap in dust bag compartment of your choice (sys 1 through 5). Than you could have cyclone section in between designed to avoid external connecting hose. All goes on sys cart. Easy to reconfigure for the job at hand.
It's great in theory but ultimately to get a proper cyclone you need something the size of the DD... Which I think needs a sys5.  If you have another sys 5 for your bin and a ctl midi to get good CFM airflow, the whole thing is pretty tall and likely easy to topple. A thien baffle design (like the CT cyclone) would help but at a huge CFM loss - most reports I've seen reduce airflow by about half.

I cut and chiseled a piece of plywood to sit on top of my ct26, thinking it would form the basis of a ride-along collector with a baffle, but for my situation I think side by side under a bench with extra hose/pipe to get the corners of the shop will be much easier... 98% of what I do is in my small shop so I might as well optimized for it!

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Offline Gregor

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Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.
You could put the CT SYS ontop of the pre-separator (possibly without the hose garage), should be no problem then to lead the hose (even with a straight connector end). A SYS ROLL would make this mobile, the CT is quite light so it shouldn't get that top heavy and you would have easy access to the bag to unclog / clean out the fine dust (that the pre-separator will not be able to catch as of it's design).

Offline Scorpion

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Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.
You could put the CT SYS ontop of the pre-separator (possibly without the hose garage), should be no problem then to lead the hose (even with a straight connector end). A SYS ROLL would make this mobile, the CT is quite light so it shouldn't get that top heavy and you would have easy access to the bag to unclog / clean out the fine dust (that the pre-separator will not be able to catch as of it's design).

I think you might be right.  Would be really compact if it worked setup like that.  I’m hesitant to pre-order but I’ll probably get one after the early adopters start to post up their opinions.

Offline jobsworth

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just gave the notice for Xmas list hehehehe

Offline Havwoods Accessories Ltd

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its been a while...
Having now had a play with the new toys i thought id post a few "real" pics.
Will certainly be a useful bit of kit to thos who generate large volumes of dust and is pretty robust and well thought out as usual, we are flooring specialists so will be putting them to test with some serious dust generating machines.. ;D ;D
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 03:05 AM by Havwoods Accessories Ltd »
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Offline jobsworth

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@Distinctive Interiors

Thanks for the info. Its a very cleaver set up u got

Offline Distinctive Interiors

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@jobsworth 

Thanks, you're welcome.

I got to try out the new Festool CT Cyclone on Monday. My local rep brought one in for me to try out. I only got to try it for a few minutes so not an extensive workout, but it seems to work very well.
I don't think it's any more efficient than my own homemade set up though, so until I get a chance to do a direct comparison, I am reserving final judgement.

Offline jmbfestool

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@jobsworth 

Thanks, you're welcome.

I got to try out the new Festool CT Cyclone on Monday. My local rep brought one in for me to try out. I only got to try it for a few minutes so not an extensive workout, but it seems to work very well.
I don't think it's any more efficient than my own homemade set up though, so until I get a chance to do a direct comparison, I am reserving final judgement.

I had a quick go with it sanding plaster dust.   
It did catch a lot of the dust but also a lot still got through into the vacuum.

If your were using for wood dust and shavings I think efficiency would be greatly increased.

Plaster dust is far finer especially the filler plaster.

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Offline Distinctive Interiors

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One thing that I  noticed whilst looking inside it, the various components all seemed to fit together quite loosely.........Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that for a Cyclone to work properly , everything had to be completely airtight or the efficiency of the separation was compromised significantly.
I mentioned the fact that all the components were loose to the Festool Rep, but he said it was for ease of taking it apart for cleaning....?!!

Another thing that struck me was the transparent drop box. I made my own from ply and fitted it inside a Sys5 coz I had read that someone previously had tried to mount a Cyclone directly to a Systainer and when the vacuum was applied, it started to crush. The transparent drop box didnt look or feel any more structurally rigid than a Systainer, if anything it felt more flimsy.

These are just my observations, not criticisms as the unit obviously works as it was designed to do, but it has got me thinking that perhaps my own set up is far more heavy duty than it needed to be. I made my Dropbox out of 18mm ply and the weight of that along with the Dust Commander  and a Sys5, is heavy in comparison with Festool's offering.

Offline jmbfestool

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One thing that I  noticed whilst looking inside it, the various components all seemed to fit together quite loosely.........Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that for a Cyclone to work properly , everything had to be completely airtight or the efficiency of the separation was compromised significantly.
I mentioned the fact that all the components were loose to the Festool Rep, but he said it was for ease of taking it apart for cleaning....?!!

Another thing that struck me was the transparent drop box. I made my own from ply and fitted it inside a Sys5 coz I had read that someone previously had tried to mount a Cyclone directly to a Systainer and when the vacuum was applied, it started to crush. The transparent drop box didnt look or feel any more structurally rigid than a Systainer, if anything it felt more flimsy.

These are just my observations, not criticisms as the unit obviously works as it was designed to do, but it has got me thinking that perhaps my own set up is far more heavy duty than it needed to be. I made my Dropbox out of 18mm ply and the weight of that along with the Dust Commander  and a Sys5, is heavy in comparison with Festool's offering.

It’s funny you mentioned about the loose parts.

When the rep showed me inside it had sealant around the joints it was first thing I noticed and thought that was rather messy as it didn’t look like it was done from factory but rather some one with a bit of spit on their finger rubbing it in.

I assumed it must have been because it might have been a prototype

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Offline Scorpion

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I wondered how the unit was sealing to the collection containers.  I assumed there was some kind of faster inside the top but it’s now sounding like that’s not the case.  Can anyone confirm if there’s a gasket or not?

Guess it would be interesting to see the results of a suction test on a vac with and without the collector.  A little loss of suction may not matter when sanding but it might matter a lot during other activities...or would it matter at all?

Offline Cheese

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1. I wondered how the unit was sealing to the collection containers.  I assumed there was some kind of faster inside the top but it’s now sounding like that’s not the case.  Can anyone confirm if there’s a gasket or not?

2. Guess it would be interesting to see the results of a suction test on a vac with and without the collector.  A little loss of suction may not matter when sanding but it might matter a lot during other activities...or would it matter at all?

1. When the Festool Roadshow came to town, Steve Bace demonstrated it for me. After using it with a Planex, he unlatched the 2 modules, removed the clear plastic tub of drywall dust and then latched the 2 halves back together and said it could be used in that more compact manner without the plastic tub. He then unlatched the 2 units and reinserted the plastic tub between them and went back to drywall sanding. I know there's not a gasket in the lower unit and I don't remember seeing a gasket on the plastic tub. Possibly there's a gasket on the upper unit?

2. There's already an excess of suction when using Festool sanders so that's probably not an issue. The only possible exception could be when using it attached to the Kapex. Any decrease in suction may compromise the dust collection of the saw. If so, maybe it's in the same realm of using the 27mm vs 36mm hose on the Kapex?

Offline ear3

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Would having this separator make a specialty vac like the CT36AC less necessary when doing larger amounts of drywall sanding, because it would reduce the amount going into the main body of the vac and the filter?
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Offline Gregor

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Would having this separator make a specialty vac like the CT36AC less necessary when doing larger amounts of drywall sanding, because it would reduce the amount going into the main body of the vac and the filter?
It likely won't massively reduce the amount of very fine dust going into the filter and the fine stuff (that's just coarse enough to not pass through the filter) is what's clogging it quickly, ending good airflow.

Thus the CT AC likely won't be obsoleted.

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Offline Cheese

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It likely won't massively reduce the amount of very fine dust going into the filter and the fine stuff (that's just coarse enough to not pass through the filter) is what's clogging it quickly, ending good airflow.

I’d take the opposite tack, from what I saw, this thing collects 90% of the drywall dust which would leave the CT 36 AC in a rather neutered position.