Author Topic: New from Festool for Europe - September 2018: CT pre separator with cyclone tech  (Read 21626 times)

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Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 744
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
Hi,

Festool just dropped this in their Instagram stories:

!All pictures copyright by Festool!









English (UK Website): https://www.festool.co.uk/campaigns/microsites/ct-va

German (Deutsche Webseite): https://www.festool.de/kampagnen/microsites/ct-va


Kind regards,
Oliver
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 12:18 PM by six-point socket II »
Kind regards,
Oliver

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline blaszcsj

  • Posts: 387
  • I like building stuff with my hands.
that is bannanas...
OF1010 EQ Router | MFT/3 | DF500Q | Carvex 420 | ETS EC 150/3 | CT 36 Auto Clean | TSC55 | LR32 | OF1400 EQ Router | ZOBO Metric Set | CXS Li 2.6 - 90 Limited Edition | Universal Cleaning Set | HKC55 | Centrotec CE-SORT | RO150 FEQ | DTS 400 | RO90 DX | CTSYS | C18 Drill | SysLite KALII | Syslite STL 450 | RAS 115 E | OF2200 EB

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3576
In the 3/4 view of the assembly in use it looks like the collection tub of the CT has been lined with a clear plastic bag. Is this a useful practice? Is it only useful with newer CT’s? Mine are older models.

Regarding the new equipment, it’s nice that it maintains the stackable nature of the Sys/tem.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1538
Integrated cyclone is long overdue, but this one looks bulky and no different from Dust Deputy products. I realize it's an afterthought and add-on to existing collectors. Household vacs are way ahead on this.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 12:55 PM by Svar »

Offline SRSemenza

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  • Posts: 8614
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I don't see a picture that shows it but it looks to me that the upper portion attaches to the lower portion when the clear tub is removed. I wonder if the lower then becomes the collection container?

I like the idea of the removable, swap out, tub with lid.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was thinking it seemed less bulky?  [huh]

Or at least more streamlined, easy to remove and move since it is really built in to a Systainer, stackable and the cyclone is not an appendage sitting on top.

Seth

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 365
Integrated cyclone is long overdue, but this one looks bulky and no different from Dust Deputy products. I realize it's an afterthought and add-on to existing collectors. Household vacs are way ahead on this.

Run concrete dust and paint dust through your household vac and it will die very, very early  [wink]

Offline The.Handyman

  • Posts: 90
More information and photos. I am excited.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Offline ceddy

  • Posts: 141
I don't see a picture that shows it but it looks to me that the upper portion attaches to the lower portion when the clear tub is removed. I wonder if the lower then becomes the collection container?

Seems like that's the case, but the bottom portion would probably fill really fast and the cyclone seems to extend bellow the top systainer. The buckets are a cool idea. Like many festool things though, unless you are a road warrior, not much incentive to upgrade from a Dust deputy.

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 900
Don't have a Dust Deputy so I'll likely get the festool verion..
RO 150, 850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1538
Integrated cyclone is long overdue, but this one looks bulky and no different from Dust Deputy products. I realize it's an afterthought and add-on to existing collectors. Household vacs are way ahead on this.
Run concrete dust and paint dust through your household vac and it will die very, very early  [wink]
I wasn't talking about job specific post filters. I was pointing out integration of the functional parts into a very compact package with outstanding separation efficiency. All that while maintaining great suction and static pressure.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 04:33 PM by Svar »

Offline Bhend18

  • Posts: 188
    • Hendricks Construction
What would be the benefit of owning multiple bins if you use the liners?
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Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1538
What would be the benefit of owning multiple bins if you use the liners?
Higher corporate profit.  [big grin]

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 187
What would be the benefit of owning multiple bins if you use the liners?

Try picking up a 50 lbs sack of flour that uses a bread bag as the bag.  The bag keeps it all together, the liner is so the clear tubs down get dirty, so at the end of the day, you have everything clean.  So when you go home you can use the tubs to let the next days bread dough rise.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 187
Looks nice and probably the route I will go. But the more I look at the photos the more it looks like the tub doesn't package up within the 2 systainer halves  [unsure] .  At first glance I was assuming you flipped things around and everything packages up into the 1 systainer for nice storage.  That's after all part of the benefit here over other solutions is it packs up nice and goes back into someones infinite stack of systainers.

I'm not generally one to complain about price, but that looks to be rather high for something that is just a couple bits of molded plastic.

Now how many years till they make one that processes sawdust into wood pellets for stoves.  End of the day you have a bin full of wood pellets.  Have a bonus shredder on top that process scraps into dust and feeds into the pellet maker systainer.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1021
Some thoughts:

Extraction will likely be less than what a DD can archive, especially on the fine dust fraction, as of the geometry:
The cone of a cyclone is ment to accelerate the particles so that they'll have enough momentum to continue on downward and separate from the airstream at its turning point. The festool thing looks like a dustcan type extractor, while these are somewhat OK for bigger particles these usually fail at the smaller/fine fraction. Might be OK to use with the CT in AC mode and a Planex (as depicted), or to collect chips from a router (unless these tend to clog inside the inlet as it has a narrowing section) - but I suspect a DD will overall perform better (especially when sanding with higher grits).

The bins being transparent is good so you can watch the fill grade, question though is if the bag won't simply turn opaque and leaving you non the wiser. I dislike how the bins are stacking though, they're not deep enough to fit the lids, so you can't put a lid on the top one leading to you being unable to stack something ontop as there isn't an even surface (or you'll have to also stack the lids, opposed to how it's depicted). The rim (and handles) could have been created different (smaller, with the latch of the top systainer going into the handle instead of an extra slot) to give a better stacking ratio than 5:2 (excluding the lids that protrude over the topmost bin) that can be deducted from the bin carrying picture.

The bottom adaptor dosn't seem to be able to lock onto the bins, thus there dosn't seem to be a single-hand way (as the handle on the top systainer most likely can't be used) to lift the CT over an obstacle. But it looks like it'll have enough space though to store the additional hose for transport. Possibly it can be used without a bin (just a liner bag in the bottom part) for ~1/3 of the capacity of a bin, but that will have the downside of no visibility at all.

EDIT:
It dosn't look like it's worth spending (all prices as of the german homepage incl. VAT) 416,50€ on it - or 184,45€ on a 3 pack of bins (that's 61,48€/ piece) or 83,30€ in case you buy one in a single pack (that's 3€ less than a SYS-5). Comparing the pricing for the bins to the 41,65 € they call for the part (a socket with short extension and plug) that moves the outlet to the top part of the pre-extractor (which seems to be a must-have in case you want to use a sleeved hose) makes that part look cheap in comparison.

Given that similar sized transparent containers (20L) can be at obtained at IKEA for less than 5€ (which would make them 10€ when molded in thicker to have higher stability) I can only assert that such ripoff pricing dosn't make me want to continue buying their products...
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 10:24 AM by Gregor »

Offline Reiska

  • Posts: 1162
  • Hackers build things, Crackers break them.
What I don't understand is why didn't they make the bottom part as a TL4 or TL5 sized systainer with a side window and just omit the removable plastic monstrosity?

Or even better, just make a T-loc lid with the cut-out and attachment point to be able to fit it to any T-loc body of your choise so one could decide how large of a container they need.

For my woodworking I could probably easily get away with a TL3 as the receptacle under the cyclone module and be done with it - empty once a day and after routing operations.
The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. [big grin]

Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 579
Has anyone seen mention of the capacity?

Using my CT26 with a lunchbox thicknesses it fills up very quickly; I'd like to see a much bigger bin than 26 litres.

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline PeterK

  • Posts: 971
The really short cone of the cyclone makes me question its ability to separate finer materials. The bottom box appears to only function as a housing base. My Oneida DD works extremely well and only costs about $100 but it is clunky. I made a base for the bucket that latches to my C.T. but it is not as nice or easy to transport as the Festool design.
This gizmo might appeal to the professional commercial users but makes no real economic sense for a hobbiest as I can purchase a lot of bags for the approximate $400 cost to this. Will be curious to actual users reporting on how well it works.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1021
Has anyone seen mention of the capacity?
The bins are listed on the festool.de site as 20L.

Offline SRSemenza

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  • Posts: 8614
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Has anyone seen mention of the capacity?

Using my CT26 with a lunchbox thicknesses it fills up very quickly; I'd like to see a much bigger bin than 26 litres.

Andrew

The bins would probably be faster and easier to empty compared to the CT26 bottom. Realistically even 100 liters would fill fast from a planer. I have a CT33 in the shop but even when running the HL850 for a few passes I use an old, big, 16 gallon Craftsman vac due to the fast fill of the CT bag.


Seth

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7355
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
I hate to be negative, but this is just another example of Festool coming to the game way too late, and overpriced.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 142
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
A lot of discussion about this new Festool product on this thread and the concurrent thread: “CT CYCLONE Pre-Seperator: Coming To NA...”.
And in them both are a good number of “how Festool SHOULD have done it” posts...
Months before any buyer/users have actually had the chance to use it.
BOTTOM LINE: This is what Festool’s offering. It is what it is. Take it... Or leave it.

When one evaluates the purchase of any new Festool product - It needs to be done in the context of Festool’s GERMAN/European focus on their PRIMARY market - The worksite TRADESMAN - An enormously larger customer base than the woodworkers’ market.
Hence, their clear focus on “mobile” products: MFTs, Systainers, Mobile Dust Extractors, Battery powered hand tools, etc. And now their “add-on” Separator.
IMO - If you’re a “Road Warrior” - Hauling your Dust Extractor from job site to job site -
This looks like a terrific improvement to the present circumstance.
I’d most likely buy one - And 2-3 extra of the collection tubs.

If your woodworking is done “in the shop” - Like me - I for one - Am not interested.
I’ll stick with my -
Oneida ALL STEEL Heavy-Duty Dust Deputy 2" DIY Cyclone Separator ($199)
https://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD001002&CatId=%7B2C6BB449-99F9-4CB9-BC27-CAF1BB570002%7D
And my -
Oneida Super Dust Deputy® 17 Gal. Steel Drum Kit $101
https://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=SXK170601&CatId=%7BA34256DD-0599-4A53-B7BA-EB8FB4C63260%7D
WHY:
1.
It’s a TRUE CYCLONE - Virtually TOTAL - KNOWN - separation.
2.
It’s an ALL STEEL product - Not a plastic “whanna be”.
And... While I presume Festool has built into their new Separator “anti-static” properties to avoid “frying” the electronics of their Dust Extractors - I KNOW - From years of experience - That my ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum setup is safe for my Festool DE’s.
3.
PRICE - The ALL STEEL - TRUE CYCLONE and DRUM - Costs $199 + $101 = $300
$75 - 20% LESS - Than Festool’s $375 (U.S) PLASTIC Separator.
I know... Not as cheap as the plastic Dust Deputy/plastic bucket setup.
But, if you’re buying Festool tools at measurably higher prices - Why not an ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum. I decided to pay a little more - Do it right - Do it once.
MY CONCLUSION:
My woodworking’s done in my shop. I’ll stick with what’s working for me.
Proven Cyclone “Total” Separation - Known to be Safe for my Festool Dust Extractors - Cheaper.

DISCLAIMER: I don’t work for/receive any compensation from Oneida. I bought the products.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 11:37 AM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1538
It’s an ALL STEEL product - Not a plastic “whanna be”.
Does it matter? It's not a subject to serious stress and there is no moving parts. My plastic DD will outlast me three times over. And it does not rust, so when archaeologists dig up my shop it'll still be there and intact.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3576
The chief value of the new Festool semi-cyclone separator is that it is more mobile than most and is the only one that allows you to stack stuff on top.

Offline Kevin D.

  • Posts: 900
The chief value of the new Festool semi-cyclone separator is that it is more mobile than most and is the only one that allows you to stack stuff on top.

Bingo!
Kapex, CT-SYS, SYS-Cart, Pro 5 Sander, CT36AC, TS75, MFT 1080, MF-SYS/2, PS300 EQ-Plus, Parallel Guides Set, LR32 SYS, RO 150FEQ-Plus, OF1400 EQ Plus, DOMINO 500 Q-Plus,  Domino XL, MFK 700 EQ-Set, FS-SYS/2, CT22 w/hose storage, D36HW-RS-Plus, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, FS 1080/2-LR32, FS 1400/2-LR32, Gecko, Festool Floor Mat, Festool Stein, Multi-Tool, tape measure, large and small Festool floor mats (foam rubber).

Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 579
Thanks to those that supplied the capacity info.

£400 is quite a lot to be able to see the bag fill.  I'll have to see it in the flesh and understand if it has any other benefits I'm missing.

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline Kevin D.

  • Posts: 900
I just found the Festool Canada product links for the Festool seperator.

https://www.festoolcanada.com/en-ca/products/dust-extraction/pre-separator/204083---ct-va-20?_ga=2.136252593.1480235752.1531241825-1184194170.1531241825

You guys in the US, just go to the bottom and toggle over to the Festool USA site.
Kapex, CT-SYS, SYS-Cart, Pro 5 Sander, CT36AC, TS75, MFT 1080, MF-SYS/2, PS300 EQ-Plus, Parallel Guides Set, LR32 SYS, RO 150FEQ-Plus, OF1400 EQ Plus, DOMINO 500 Q-Plus,  Domino XL, MFK 700 EQ-Set, FS-SYS/2, CT22 w/hose storage, D36HW-RS-Plus, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, FS 1080/2-LR32, FS 1400/2-LR32, Gecko, Festool Floor Mat, Festool Stein, Multi-Tool, tape measure, large and small Festool floor mats (foam rubber).

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 142
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
SVAR -
Thx for reading/commenting on my post. FYI... I think that you missed my point.
You apparently didn’t read (or understand) the next sentence.
Having an ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum setup has NEVER been about DURABILITY.
At my age - Both plastic or steel/metal - And my life insurance - Have greater longevity.[wink]

I read the multitude of FOG posts about plastic Dust Deputies - And the travails of “fried” Festool Dust Extractors.
I also read about the “fixes” FOG members were trying - “Jerry-rigging” DD’s and hoses together - To avoid “frying” the electronics of their Dust Extractors.
I didn’t want to be running copper tape/wire from part to part - Hoping to make a continuously grounded connection to keep me/my Dust Extractors safe/working.
I KNOW that my ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum setup is grounded sitting on my concrete workshop floor. A friend - A licensed commercial electrician - Has tested it.
Hence... My use and (more than once) recommendation.
The $75 - 20% Cost Savings is just “icing on the cake”. [smile]

MICHAEL K -
I agree with you.
The primary value of spending $375 (U.S.) on the new Festool Separator is it’s mobility.
Stationary - In a shop... Not so much.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 04:40 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline Distinctive Interiors

  • Posts: 337
  • Modern Kitchen Specialist
    • distinterior.com
I made my own cyclone in a Sys5. The cyclone itself, an anti static Dust Commander, along with the plywood lid, inverts and fits inside the Sys5 and then packs away.

[ Specified attachment is not available ]











« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 05:20 AM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1538
SVAR -
Thx for reading/commenting on my post. FYI... I think that you missed my point.
You apparently didn’t read (or understand) the next sentence.
Having an ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum setup has NEVER been about DURABILITY.
At my age - Both plastic or steel/metal - And my life insurance - Have greater longevity.[wink]
I read the multitude of FOG posts about plastic Dust Deputies - And the travails of “fried” Festool Dust Extractors.

You are wrong. The latest plastic Dust Deputy cyclone is CONDUCTIVE. Designed specifically for CTs.

Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2632
SVAR -
Thx for reading/commenting on my post. FYI... I think that you missed my point.
You apparently didn’t read (or understand) the next sentence.
Having an ALL STEEL Dust Deputy/Drum setup has NEVER been about DURABILITY.
At my age - Both plastic or steel/metal - And my life insurance - Have greater longevity.[wink]
I read the multitude of FOG posts about plastic Dust Deputies - And the travails of “fried” Festool Dust Extractors.

You are wrong. The latest plastic Dust Deputy cyclone is CONDUCTIVE. Designed specifically for CTs.

Yep, I was just about to reply to Joe's post on this. It took Oneida a long, long time to finally make a DD from a material that was conductive enough to eliminate the static discharge issue on CT extractors. So, now their newer black plastic DD will work as needed. And their newer UDD with the black plastic cyclone is going to be a better solution than trying to mount a steel drum and steel cyclone on top of your CT. Just too bad it took Oneida so very long to correct their product -- especially when they were told of both the situation and the solution here repeatedly.
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1538
I made my own cyclone in a Sys5. The cyclone itself, an anti static Dust Commander, along with the plywood lid, inverts and fits inside the Sys5 and then packs away.
Brilliant!

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 384
I made my own cyclone in a Sys5. The cyclone itself, an anti static Dust Commander, along with the plywood lid, inverts and fits inside the Sys5 and then packs away.

Very clever idea.  Cyclones require tight seals between the cyclone and collector bin to be effective.  Can you share what you used?

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 142
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
SVAR / CORWIN:
Thx for the info/correction. Accepted.
Glad it works for you.[smile]
All the same, I’ll stick with my setup. Works for me.[wink]
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline bwehman

  • Posts: 39
I’m curious how the liner stays in place without that little vacuum hose that the Oneida DD includes; the one that creates negative pressure on the backside of the bag.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
I made my own cyclone in a Sys5. The cyclone itself, an anti static Dust Commander, along with the plywood lid, inverts and fits inside the Sys5 and then packs away.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Would have thought that’s something Festool would have done.   

Does the shorter hose fit inside the sys 5 aswell when the cyclone is inverted?

Just a simple and safe way transporting the cyclone in one hand cyclone  sys5 with short hose inside  and your other hand Festool vac with long hose in hose carriage which could have sanded attached so you could carry tool vac and cyclone all in one trip.

Then you have festools setup 😂😂🤣 gotta do atleast double the amount of trips or more.

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Offline jobsworth

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 @Distinctive Interiors

Thats a pretty slick set up. Please provide more info. How effectively does  it collects dust etc.

 Im interested in building something like that as Im started to do some on site work and Im tired of emptying the CT bags .

Anything to save a few quid and make life easier is always a good thing.

Offline Distinctive Interiors

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I got the idea to make it from a similar set up someone on here came up with a few years ago.

I tend to use 36mm A/S hoses for the majority of my cutting and routing, so there is not enough room inside the Sys5 for a short hose and the inverted Cyclone.

The 18mm plywood drop box is screwed and glued together and all joints sealed with Silicone sealant. The plywood top is a relatively snug fit in the rebate and although not a perfectly airtight seal, the drop box seems to work pretty well. I use mine mostly out on job sites and have had a lot of positive comments from other trades and clients.

The inlet and outlet pipes on the Cyclone don't fit the Festool hose ends. The spigots are slightly too small, so I bought 2 Festool 50mm straight couplings and wrapped the Cyclone spigots with aluminium conductive tape tò ensure I had electrical conductivity.

Overall, the set up suits my work method and I am happy with its efficiency.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 12:32 PM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1021
The 18mm plywood drop box is screwed and glued together and all joints sealed with Silicone sealant. The plywood top is a relatively snug fit in the rebate and although not a perfectly airtight seal, the drop box seems to work pretty well.
The seal of the collector box is very important to the effectiveness as even small leaks will massively reduce the separation, starting with the finest fraction. In case you get too much fine dust in the CT bag it might be worth to look at the seam between box and top, adding a rubber or foam seal there should help you get rid of any remaining leaks.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 570
When I first saw the one image of just the product (last week? Monday?), I laughed at it.   
Now that I've seen the set of marketing photos demonstrating onsite use... ok, now I get it.   

Whether it's a good product or not is something we'll have to wait and see.
However, based on looks, if I was sanding drywall all day (or doing concrete), this is totally better than the other options out there.

Just swap dust bins everytime you fill up.  At the end of the day, tie the bags up, lift the bin (the one that says Festool) over the bin (the one that says "Waste") let gravity do the job; no plumes and no dead back from lifting a bag. 

I used to hand schlep bags of instant concrete by the trailer load, and soil, and waste bags filled with offcuts and other misc garbage... I get this product.  I get it a lot.   [big grin]

For concrete and drywall, just imagine how much nicer this is than option a.   
And yes, the concrete industry is buying Festool dust extractors.   So, I don't see this as a Dust Deputy replacement.  I see this
as them seeing where the dust collectors have been getting sold and addressing that market's needs. 


Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 576
The chief value of the new Festool semi-cyclone separator is that it is more mobile than most and is the only one that allows you to stack stuff on top.

And that’s i ruggedly portable (at least as rugged as a systainer).  A DD wouldn’t live through daily transport and in/out of the truck for the working man.

I made my own cyclone in a Sys5. The cyclone itself, an anti static Dust Commander, along with the plywood lid, inverts and fits inside the Sys5 and then packs away.

UNLESS you did something like this.  A very brilliant idea sir!!  I’ve had some thoughts about making a cyclone in a systainer but got hung up on how to collect.  I was thinking of stacking two systainers on top of each other - top is the cyclone, bottom was the collector.  Your idea is way better.



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Offline Distinctive Interiors

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Thanks!......But as I said in an earlier post, I can't take the credit for the original idea. I just developed the idea based on someone else's Cyclone Systainer. It did however, make sense to invert the Cyclone and store it inside the ply drop box when not in use, due to its odd shape.

Regards, Tim.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 05:26 AM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 576
Thanks!......But as I said in an earlier thread, I can't take the credit for the original idea. I just developed the idea based on someone else's Cyclone Systainer. It did however, make sense to invert the Cyclone and store it inside the ply drop box when not in use, due to its odd shape.

Regards, Tim.

Yeah, inverting the cyclone for storage is the slick part.  [emoji41]


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Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 576
Now I’m wondering is the hose length will work with a CT Clone stacked on top of a CT SYS.  If it could, then the CT SYS could play a much bigger role in my workflow while never leaving the Sys Port.

Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone. 
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 11:26 PM by Scorpion »

Offline Master Carpenter

  • Posts: 90
Now I’m wondering is the hose length will work with a CT Clone stacked on top of a CT SYS.  If it could, then the CT SYS could play a much bigger role in my workflow while never leaving the Sys Port.

Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.

I was thinking along these same lines. Wondering if the separator will work with th CT SYS?  Will definitely cut down on how often I have to empty it. Was going to wait for my local dealer to have one on display so I can play around with them.
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Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1538
Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.
I don't get it. You only need one hose that pulls air from cyclone into the CT. What's the problem?

Anyway, I always said the whole vac system has to be modular in sys sized blocks. You buy one motor (sys2), then snap in dust bag compartment of your choice (sys 1 through 5). Than you could have cyclone section in between designed to avoid external connecting hose. All goes on sys cart. Easy to reconfigure for the job at hand.

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 576
Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.
I don't get it. You only need one hose that pulls air from cyclone into the CT. What's the problem?

Anyway, I always said the whole vac system has to be modular in sys sized blocks. You buy one motor (sys2), then snap in dust bag compartment of your choice (sys 1 through 5). Than you could have cyclone section in between designed to avoid external connecting hose. All goes on sys cart. Easy to reconfigure for the job at hand.

You’re right, one hose not two.

Offline guitarchitect

  • Posts: 60
Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.
I don't get it. You only need one hose that pulls air from cyclone into the CT. What's the problem?

Anyway, I always said the whole vac system has to be modular in sys sized blocks. You buy one motor (sys2), then snap in dust bag compartment of your choice (sys 1 through 5). Than you could have cyclone section in between designed to avoid external connecting hose. All goes on sys cart. Easy to reconfigure for the job at hand.
It's great in theory but ultimately to get a proper cyclone you need something the size of the DD... Which I think needs a sys5.  If you have another sys 5 for your bin and a ctl midi to get good CFM airflow, the whole thing is pretty tall and likely easy to topple. A thien baffle design (like the CT cyclone) would help but at a huge CFM loss - most reports I've seen reduce airflow by about half.

I cut and chiseled a piece of plywood to sit on top of my ct26, thinking it would form the basis of a ride-along collector with a baffle, but for my situation I think side by side under a bench with extra hose/pipe to get the corners of the shop will be much easier... 98% of what I do is in my small shop so I might as well optimized for it!

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Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1021
Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.
You could put the CT SYS ontop of the pre-separator (possibly without the hose garage), should be no problem then to lead the hose (even with a straight connector end). A SYS ROLL would make this mobile, the CT is quite light so it shouldn't get that top heavy and you would have easy access to the bag to unclog / clean out the fine dust (that the pre-separator will not be able to catch as of it's design).

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 576
Edit:  after looking at the CT SYS, I don’t think it will work.  The CT SYS only has a big enough hole for a hose to leave its Systainer housing.  No room to get the hose in from the SYS Cyclone.
You could put the CT SYS ontop of the pre-separator (possibly without the hose garage), should be no problem then to lead the hose (even with a straight connector end). A SYS ROLL would make this mobile, the CT is quite light so it shouldn't get that top heavy and you would have easy access to the bag to unclog / clean out the fine dust (that the pre-separator will not be able to catch as of it's design).

I think you might be right.  Would be really compact if it worked setup like that.  I’m hesitant to pre-order but I’ll probably get one after the early adopters start to post up their opinions.

Offline jobsworth

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just gave the notice for Xmas list hehehehe

Offline Havwoods Accessories Ltd

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its been a while...
Having now had a play with the new toys i thought id post a few "real" pics.
Will certainly be a useful bit of kit to thos who generate large volumes of dust and is pretty robust and well thought out as usual, we are flooring specialists so will be putting them to test with some serious dust generating machines.. ;D ;D
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 03:05 AM by Havwoods Accessories Ltd »
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Offline jobsworth

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@Distinctive Interiors

Thanks for the info. Its a very cleaver set up u got

Offline Distinctive Interiors

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@jobsworth 

Thanks, you're welcome.

I got to try out the new Festool CT Cyclone on Monday. My local rep brought one in for me to try out. I only got to try it for a few minutes so not an extensive workout, but it seems to work very well.
I don't think it's any more efficient than my own homemade set up though, so until I get a chance to do a direct comparison, I am reserving final judgement.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
@jobsworth 

Thanks, you're welcome.

I got to try out the new Festool CT Cyclone on Monday. My local rep brought one in for me to try out. I only got to try it for a few minutes so not an extensive workout, but it seems to work very well.
I don't think it's any more efficient than my own homemade set up though, so until I get a chance to do a direct comparison, I am reserving final judgement.

I had a quick go with it sanding plaster dust.   
It did catch a lot of the dust but also a lot still got through into the vacuum.

If your were using for wood dust and shavings I think efficiency would be greatly increased.

Plaster dust is far finer especially the filler plaster.

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Offline Distinctive Interiors

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One thing that I  noticed whilst looking inside it, the various components all seemed to fit together quite loosely.........Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that for a Cyclone to work properly , everything had to be completely airtight or the efficiency of the separation was compromised significantly.
I mentioned the fact that all the components were loose to the Festool Rep, but he said it was for ease of taking it apart for cleaning....?!!

Another thing that struck me was the transparent drop box. I made my own from ply and fitted it inside a Sys5 coz I had read that someone previously had tried to mount a Cyclone directly to a Systainer and when the vacuum was applied, it started to crush. The transparent drop box didnt look or feel any more structurally rigid than a Systainer, if anything it felt more flimsy.

These are just my observations, not criticisms as the unit obviously works as it was designed to do, but it has got me thinking that perhaps my own set up is far more heavy duty than it needed to be. I made my Dropbox out of 18mm ply and the weight of that along with the Dust Commander  and a Sys5, is heavy in comparison with Festool's offering.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
One thing that I  noticed whilst looking inside it, the various components all seemed to fit together quite loosely.........Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that for a Cyclone to work properly , everything had to be completely airtight or the efficiency of the separation was compromised significantly.
I mentioned the fact that all the components were loose to the Festool Rep, but he said it was for ease of taking it apart for cleaning....?!!

Another thing that struck me was the transparent drop box. I made my own from ply and fitted it inside a Sys5 coz I had read that someone previously had tried to mount a Cyclone directly to a Systainer and when the vacuum was applied, it started to crush. The transparent drop box didnt look or feel any more structurally rigid than a Systainer, if anything it felt more flimsy.

These are just my observations, not criticisms as the unit obviously works as it was designed to do, but it has got me thinking that perhaps my own set up is far more heavy duty than it needed to be. I made my Dropbox out of 18mm ply and the weight of that along with the Dust Commander  and a Sys5, is heavy in comparison with Festool's offering.

It’s funny you mentioned about the loose parts.

When the rep showed me inside it had sealant around the joints it was first thing I noticed and thought that was rather messy as it didn’t look like it was done from factory but rather some one with a bit of spit on their finger rubbing it in.

I assumed it must have been because it might have been a prototype

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Offline Scorpion

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I wondered how the unit was sealing to the collection containers.  I assumed there was some kind of faster inside the top but it’s now sounding like that’s not the case.  Can anyone confirm if there’s a gasket or not?

Guess it would be interesting to see the results of a suction test on a vac with and without the collector.  A little loss of suction may not matter when sanding but it might matter a lot during other activities...or would it matter at all?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5069
1. I wondered how the unit was sealing to the collection containers.  I assumed there was some kind of faster inside the top but it’s now sounding like that’s not the case.  Can anyone confirm if there’s a gasket or not?

2. Guess it would be interesting to see the results of a suction test on a vac with and without the collector.  A little loss of suction may not matter when sanding but it might matter a lot during other activities...or would it matter at all?

1. When the Festool Roadshow came to town, Steve Bace demonstrated it for me. After using it with a Planex, he unlatched the 2 modules, removed the clear plastic tub of drywall dust and then latched the 2 halves back together and said it could be used in that more compact manner without the plastic tub. He then unlatched the 2 units and reinserted the plastic tub between them and went back to drywall sanding. I know there's not a gasket in the lower unit and I don't remember seeing a gasket on the plastic tub. Possibly there's a gasket on the upper unit?

2. There's already an excess of suction when using Festool sanders so that's probably not an issue. The only possible exception could be when using it attached to the Kapex. Any decrease in suction may compromise the dust collection of the saw. If so, maybe it's in the same realm of using the 27mm vs 36mm hose on the Kapex?

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3594
Would having this separator make a specialty vac like the CT36AC less necessary when doing larger amounts of drywall sanding, because it would reduce the amount going into the main body of the vac and the filter?
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Offline Gregor

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Would having this separator make a specialty vac like the CT36AC less necessary when doing larger amounts of drywall sanding, because it would reduce the amount going into the main body of the vac and the filter?
It likely won't massively reduce the amount of very fine dust going into the filter and the fine stuff (that's just coarse enough to not pass through the filter) is what's clogging it quickly, ending good airflow.

Thus the CT AC likely won't be obsoleted.

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Offline Cheese

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It likely won't massively reduce the amount of very fine dust going into the filter and the fine stuff (that's just coarse enough to not pass through the filter) is what's clogging it quickly, ending good airflow.

I’d take the opposite tack, from what I saw, this thing collects 90% of the drywall dust which would leave the CT 36 AC in a rather neutered position.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
It likely won't massively reduce the amount of very fine dust going into the filter and the fine stuff (that's just coarse enough to not pass through the filter) is what's clogging it quickly, ending good airflow.

I’d take the opposite tack, from what I saw, this thing collects 90% of the drywall dust which would leave the CT 36 AC in a rather neutered position.

No way does it collect 90% on drywall.  I’ve seen it for my self it doesn’t

Even Festool don’t claim it does well the rep anyway .  He said it will hit 90%+ with wood but not plaster.
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Offline Scorpion

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1. When the Festool Roadshow came to town, Steve Bace demonstrated it for me. After using it with a Planex, he unlatched the 2 modules, removed the clear plastic tub of drywall dust and then latched the 2 halves back together and said it could be used in that more compact manner without the plastic tub. He then unlatched the 2 units and reinserted the plastic tub between them and went back to drywall sanding. I know there's not a gasket in the lower unit and I don't remember seeing a gasket on the plastic tub. Possibly there's a gasket on the upper unit?

2. There's already an excess of suction when using Festool sanders so that's probably not an issue. The only possible exception could be when using it attached to the Kapex. Any decrease in suction may compromise the dust collection of the saw. If so, maybe it's in the same realm of using the 27mm vs 36mm hose on the Kapex?

Thanks, that’s good info.  Think I’ll get one.

Offline jobsworth

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I went to Anderson Plywood Thursday and had Don Ware and Klaus (the festool rep) demonstrate it for me. They used a sander and a TS 55. It collected everything no issues. I can confirm that that there is no gasket either for sealing the bin or just the 2 halves.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2011
There is no need for a gasket it the parts fit together snugly.  I use small steel drums used for grease or paint, probably 20-25 gallon for under my two steel Oneidas.  When I turn on that vacs there is an audible thump as the lid clamps down to the drum, the marvels of vacuum!

Offline Gregor

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I use small steel drums used for grease or paint, probably 20-25 gallon for under my two steel Oneidas.  When I turn on that vacs there is an audible thump as the lid clamps down to the drum, the marvels of vacuum!
In case you want to have fun with these drums: apply some real vacuum (1mbar abs and lower) instead of the slightly reduced pressure you generate with a shopvac (though one of these can already be enough to collapse lesser vessels in case the intake hose gets fully blocked).

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1126
I know a lot of guys here are clever at designing their own versions of different things that Festool itself makes and that's great.  Some of us either aren't smart enough, don't have the patience or the time to develop our own.  I like the new Festool version of the cyclone for a few reasons.  1. even with a tub, it's almost a foot shorter than the DD.  2.  I like the clear container.  3.  Although many may disagree or not care, I like the idea that Festool designed it and it looks like it belongs.  It's like buying curb feelers for a Mercedes. They don't belong.  4.  It's only $75 more than the DD.  For some folks, that's a deal killer but for me, I don't mind spending a bit more for a Festool designed and branded product so I really don't care. 5.  I just got one of the new ct36's and using their accessories guarantees I won't screw up my $800 vac by using someone else's aftermarket product. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

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Offline jobsworth

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@HowardH

I couldnt agree more.

Offline jonathan-m

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This is what it looks like on the inside
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Offline jimbo51

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"... Klaus (the festool rep) demonstrate it for me. They used a sander ... "

So Sander Klaus works for Festool in the off season.

Offline Cheese

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It's like buying curb feelers for a Mercedes. 

LOL... [big grin]

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 576
"... Klaus (the festool rep) demonstrate it for me. They used a sander ... "

So Sander Klaus works for Festool in the off season.

Don’t care who you are, that’s funny

Offline Bullterrier

  • Posts: 13
On sale in the UK now - £270 online inc VAT.

Offline jobsworth

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270 GP is around $346. if I did the math correct using the exchange rate of $1.28 = 1 GBP. So thats about what we are going to pay here in NA for it.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 247
270 GP is around $346. if I did the math correct using the exchange rate of $1.28 = 1 GBP. So thats about what we are going to pay here in NA for it.

Pricing was already announced. $375, see first page of thread.

Offline jobsworth

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Just found it at FFX.co.uk for 249 GBP

Offline jobsworth

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270 GP is around $346. if I did the math correct using the exchange rate of $1.28 = 1 GBP. So thats about what we are going to pay here in NA for it.

Pricing was already announced. $375, see first page of thread.

Ok 270 GBP was at toolfest, ,

I just found it for 249 GBP @ FFX .co.uk including VAT

Nuts and Bolts has it for 268 GBP,

 Europe doesnt price fix like NA does.

Offline Bullterrier

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Seems like today was stock day in the UK.

Offline tallgrass

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Subtract 19% VAT and add shipping.

Offline HowardH

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Actually got my hands on the new cyclone today.  Not for sale yet, but got a few impressions.  The tub looks a bit smallish but I don't think it's much of an issue.  The tub also rocks a bit in it's base but that would also make it very easy to remove and replace.  I didn't see a bag in the box and I thought it came with one.  It may have been in with the rest of the documentation.  I really don't think it's going to be too tall, either, nothing like the DD.  It's very solid feeling and I would imagine I could go pretty much all day without worrying about emptying the bin.  I'm convinced it's a well conceived and executed accessory and will soon find a home on top of my new CT36. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

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Offline jobsworth

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that was my impression to Howard

Offline Bullterrier

  • Posts: 13
270 GP is around $346. if I did the math correct using the exchange rate of $1.28 = 1 GBP. So thats about what we are going to pay here in NA for it.

Pricing was already announced. $375, see first page of thread.

Ok 270 GBP was at toolfest, ,

I just found it for 249 GBP @ FFX .co.uk including VAT

Nuts and Bolts has it for 268 GBP,

 Europe doesnt price fix like NA does.

One thing that comes along with laws that prevent price fixing is dealers with no stock showing a temptingly lower price that mysteriously goes back up once they actually do have stock.....

Hold on and buy from us guys.....oh wait.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Actually got my hands on the new cyclone today.  Not for sale yet, but got a few impressions.  The tub looks a bit smallish but I don't think it's much of an issue.  The tub also rocks a bit in it's base but that would also make it very easy to remove and replace.  I didn't see a bag in the box and I thought it came with one.  It may have been in with the rest of the documentation.  I really don't think it's going to be too tall, either, nothing like the DD.  It's very solid feeling and I would imagine I could go pretty much all day without worrying about emptying the bin.  I'm convinced it's a well conceived and executed accessory and will soon find a home on top of my new CT36.

I now have one on loan from Festool UK and no plastic bag was included. However, in the scope of delivery bit on the web site its states that the following is included:

   - cyclone Systainer
   - VAB-20 collection container
   - Systainer pan
   - connecting hose
   - disposal bag
   - container lid
   - in carton

The disposal bags are in short supply at the moment but will be included once the product is released to market.

I have been doing some filming of the cyclone and hope to release a video very soon - when I do I will start a new thread.

My first impressions back up what @HowardH has said. It is well made, certainly part of the "System" approach and not too tall. The Festool bags will not be cheap and in the absence of any bag with the demo kit I just used an ordinary black plastic bag - it worked fine.

Interestingly, Oneida go to a lot of effort to keep the bag seated in the their UDD drop box and have an annoying plastic tube which runs from the front of the CT to the bottom of the drop box that sucks the bag in place. There is no such arrangement with the CT VA and it works fine with a bag.

I have built several cyclones from kits and read a little about them on Bill Pentz's web site. The height of the tapered cone can have an effect on the efficiency of the cyclone as far as fine dust is concerned. This can be offset to an extent by the diameter choosen for the upper section. The CT VA 20 has a short cyclone section and so it will be interesting to see how it managed with the fine dust particularly as Festool's imaging for the product shows it in a drywall/Planex context.

I do not believe that this is aimed primarily at the static workshop user. The mobile user, particularly when working on site with other trades, will have the advantage of much longer CT bag life and easier disposal of waste.

Peter


Offline Havwoods Accessories Ltd

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Some Interesting points raised here.

We've now got stock the CT-VA and the disposable bags and getting great feedback from Contractors.
We have steered well away from NON Festool separators after seeing serious issues with static and voided warrantys etc.
(we are in the flooring game so large quantity's of dust and sparks don't mix as we all know) [eek] [scared]

If anyone's in the North West and wants to pop in for a brew and a play feel free we have one in our workshop you can have play with, Not just fire it up..actually use it with a ts55 etc. ;D [big grin]
__________________________________________
Havwoods Accessories Ltd
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01772 696600
www.havwoodsaccessories.com

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Hi Everyone

I have just done the test of the CT VA 20 and I am really amazed at the separation rate which came out at 97.5% for wood debris (chips and dust).

I have captured this on video and can assure even the most sceptical person that my figures are accurate. However, I admit (and say this in the video) that my test is not truly scientific as I did not repeat it, nor did I start with a brand new CT or hose. My CT 26 is a veteran member of my workshop and so I am really pleased with the result.

Technically this would mean saving 39 bags for every 1 used although as it would be only the really fine dust making up the 2.5% that gets through I would suspect it means saving 19 bags for every 1 used. That is still a huge saving.

I did not test mineral dust and have no way of doing that.

Peter

Offline Havwoods Accessories Ltd

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Brilliant Peter!

Look forward to seeing the video as ever! [smile]
__________________________________________
Havwoods Accessories Ltd
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01772 696600
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Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 744
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
Hi!

So I saw it live at the Roadshow today and all I can say is: pictures really don't do it justice.

Sounds stupid, I know - but: Seeing this live made me suddenly realize how compact (yes it's really small) the whole system is when pieced together and what a difference that will make in any small shop or when portability is key. Personally, I think this will put a cyclone in a lot of hands that otherwise would have never bought/built one.

The clear bins and bags ... Great.

In short: I'm getting one ASAP.

Now another visitor asked the Festool rep. about compatibility with the CTL-SYS - something that I was interested in, too. Answer was: CTL-SYS has not enough power/suction/flow (whatever you wanna call it) to make this worthwhile.

I'll take this statement for what it is, but will definitely give it a try.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Havwoods Accessories Ltd

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Like this?

Just having  a play.. [big grin]
Have to say it was actually OK!

Big apologies for T-locs.... [embarassed]
__________________________________________
Havwoods Accessories Ltd
FESTOOL Dealer, Preston UK
01772 696600
www.havwoodsaccessories.com

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 744
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Yeah exactly! Great to hear, while not intended, it works.

Can't wait for mine ... :)

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 76
Would be very interested to hear just how well it worked with the SYS.

And, if the SYS works then the MIDI will too, surely? Or have I missed something?

Guess which two vacs I have  ;)

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5271
  • Does Anyone Know What Time It Is?
Hi Everyone

I have just done the test of the CT VA 20 and I am really amazed at the separation rate which came out at 97.5% for wood debris (chips and dust).

I have captured this on video and can assure even the most sceptical person that my figures are accurate. However, I admit (and say this in the video) that my test is not truly scientific as I did not repeat it, nor did I start with a brand new CT or hose. My CT 26 is a veteran member of my workshop and so I am really pleased with the result.

Technically this would mean saving 39 bags for every 1 used although as it would be only the really fine dust making up the 2.5% that gets through I would suspect it means saving 19 bags for every 1 used. That is still a huge saving.

I did not test mineral dust and have no way of doing that.

Peter

Thats what I found when I saw it at Anderson Plywood, Don demonstrated it for me

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Hi Oliver

I have finished most of the video shooting and have done a piece about the CTL Sys. Having read Bill Pentz's notes I think that it may be slightly under powered. However, it does separate more than it lets through. I will let someone else do the test though.

What I noticed was that the short hose that comes with the cyclone is the perfect size and fit for the CTL Sys - I do not think that is an accident.

Peter

Offline six-point socket II

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Hi Peter,

that sounds fantastic! Can't wait to see your video :)

Thank you very much!

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Northernlight

  • Posts: 69
Yes. This is what i have been waiting for. Take my money Festool.

Offline Don Ware

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Some how I missed this thread. I did two video's when my Demo arrived.

Don Ware
Anderson Plywood Sales
Culver City, California

Offline Phil Beckley

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Hi
Currently putting it through its paces for a to be revealed build at Xmas - tomorrow I will check out the bag to see what we have. It’s a mixture of materials being used
Rg
Phil
Festool UK
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2632
Phil, in your photo it looks like the hose from the CT to the separator is one of the new smooth hoses, while the photo Dan Clermont's latest thread clearly shows the older ribbed hose. Is this just a pre-production inconsistency? Also, is this a D36 hose?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 04:10 PM by Corwin »
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline Phil Beckley

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Phil, in your photo it looks like the hose from the CT to the separator is one of the new smooth hoses, while the photo Dan Clermont's latest thread clearly shows the older ribbed hose. Is this just a pre-production inconsistency? Also, is this a D36 hose?

.....it’s my stunning photography - the hose is the ribbed version from CT to VA and I am using the 36 hose.
Rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2632
Phil, in your photo it looks like the hose from the CT to the separator is one of the new smooth hoses, while the photo Dan Clermont's latest thread clearly shows the older ribbed hose. Is this just a pre-production inconsistency? Also, is this a D36 hose?

.....it’s my stunning photography - the hose is the ribbed version from CT to VA and I am using the 36 hose.
Rg
Phil

It must be your stunning photography!  [big grin]
Thanks
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline Grakat

  • Posts: 232
Hi there

I have just read through the 4 pages of discussion and can only hope that this is offered down under. I do like the system approach, combined with the fact that I can use it with a router and know how much space I have left before I start filling the bag in the CT. It also looks good on the CT SYS which I am considering using to sand my mums house which is in another country. I don't think they let you put a CT26 into an airliner lol.
Regards
Graham

Festool ETS150/3, TS55, CT26, DF500+ Domino set, PS300, HKC55, RO150

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 576
Hi Oliver

I have finished most of the video shooting and have done a piece about the CTL Sys. Having read Bill Pentz's notes I think that it may be slightly under powered. However, it does separate more than it lets through. I will let someone else do the test though.

Peter

Underpowered in that there’s not enough force to separate correctly or that the vac becomes less effective somehow?

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 76
Ordered one today from Healystools in the UK. FWIW, I asked FFX when they expecting to restock and was told Festool were saying October 1st.

Hopefully the SYS will cope although I imagine it'll have a harder time once the bin starts to fill up.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Underpowered in that there’s not enough force to separate correctly or that the vac becomes less effective somehow?

Hi @Scorpion

I think from the perspective that the velocity of the debris that enters the cyclone would be too low to have an efficient separation. It should not reduce the overall performance of the vacuum by more than 2 - 4%. I am really tied up with some other work and cannot do a test with the CT Sys but I would think that it would be better than 80% and could be as high as 90% efficient. Given the relatively small size of the extractor bags that would be a great help, particularly if you are using (say) either a saw or a hand (HL) planer.

Peter

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Offline Gregor

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It should not reduce the overall performance of the vacuum by more than 2 - 4%.
Do not underestimate the effects of turbulent (non laminar) airflow.

Air ducts for example go through great lenghts to avoid sharp corners (to keep the airstream laminar), the Festool contraption on the other hand (compared to directly using the VAC) introduces at least 4 extra ones - two in the 90° elbows of the hose between the extractor and the VAC*, the other two in the outlet side in the head).

(* you might remember the discussions about the Kapex extraction where some said they have better effect with a straight connector to the VAC instead of an 90° one)

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2363
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
That thing is mud fence ugly!
Birdhunter

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 576
I have just created a new thread with the video:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/festool-ct-va-20-cyclone-video/

Peter

Good enough for me.  Thanks for running some tests.  It’ll do just fine in my shop.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2198
Would having this separator make a specialty vac like the CT36AC less necessary when doing larger amounts of drywall sanding, because it would reduce the amount going into the main body of the vac and the filter?
  This is why I bought my Oneida UDD in the first place, for ANY finer dust sanding, wood, drywall, plaster etc. Unlike another posters comments, I don't feel I EVER had to 'cobble' something together with it to make it work, and my unit is a VERY early one. Oneida gave us the upgrade kit a few years after I had been using mine on multiple Festool Vacs with no issues at all.  They wanted it installed, so I complied with some of it since it couldn't hurt my usage[ Ground straps were added on the sides of the lower tub and the Cyclone went from transparent plastic to Black Plastic...   I miss the 'show' of swirling dust from my original Cyclone... [wink]]
 I DO believe that my choice of using a Festool AS Boom Hose helps in controlling static build-up, but I bought it with 2 purposes, to allow putting a Systainer or Sortainer under the UDD, on top of my vac, by having that longer 50mm Boom hose in place of what Oneida sent with the original kit AND add Anti-Static grounding if I wasn't sure about the hose the kit came with.  For Me, it's been a WIN WIN with the UDD all these years.
 Drywall and Plaster sanding is a non-issue, it all just works, including using my Planex sander.
 Moving the whole Vac unit up and down stairs means you break it down into smaller chunks with the UDD simply coming off, then reassemble it once you're ready. Not hard, and not heavy.

 I hope the new Festool unit works as well for anyone who buys it.
 
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 10:21 AM by leakyroof »
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline Don Ware

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So I vacuum up 25 pounds of saw dust, weigh the bag before and after and then cut the bag open to see what made it into the bag !!!!!                       
Don Ware
Anderson Plywood Sales
Culver City, California

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 576
So I vacuum up 25 pounds of saw dust, weigh the bag before and after and then cut the bag open to see what made it into the bag !!!!!                       

Thought - the % dust per air traveling through the hose probably makes a difference as to how much gets trapped.  Meaning it make take hours to accumulate a pound of dust while sanding.  If you stick the hose in a pile and suck up a pound of dust, I’d expect more to get captured become the air to dust ratio would be less...there’s probably better language.

Simple version, I’m not sure sticking the hose in a pile of sanding dust would separate the same way as sanding for however many hours it would take to suck up the equivalent amount of dust.  Wondering if the pile test is real world enough..

I’m not bashing the collector, I ordered one and will be satisfied if the collector captures 50%.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5069
If anything, I think the test Don did was more than real world. He basically overloaded the cyclone and forced it to produce results. The results were pretty astounding. I’m pretty slack-jawed with the results.

I’d expect that with the amount of debris that Don introduced into the cyclone and with the frequency that he kept introducing the debris that the cyclone would become overloaded. That would lead to a higher level of debris in the bag which was not the case.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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I don't see a problem with Don's method as it is the same as the one that I used earlier.

I have a gut feeling that if the dust to air ratio is high then one would expect more dust to get through to the CT bag.

Peter
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 06:40 AM by Peter Parfitt »

Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 437
While I would be interested to see a comparison to other systems for the sake of curiosity, the Festool CT appears to be so efficient for general use that better performance would have little practical application. Ease of use and form factor become more important when one might have to fill more than 25 (or 50?) internal bags before a 1 bag difference shows up for efficiency.

The differences may be more profound for something like drywall dust. That testing is likely to be much messier and more tedious so we may not see the results soon.

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 576
If anything, I think the test Don did was more than real world. He basically overloaded the cyclone and forced it to produce results. The results were pretty astounding. I’m pretty slack-jawed with the results.

I’d expect that with the amount of debris that Don introduced into the cyclone and with the frequency that he kept introducing the debris that the cyclone would become overloaded. That would lead to a higher level of debris in the bag which was not the case.

Hm, good point.  Didn’t think about overloading.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1021
I’d expect that with the amount of debris that Don introduced into the cyclone and with the frequency that he kept introducing the debris that the cyclone would become overloaded. That would lead to a higher level of debris in the bag which was not the case.

Depends on the material you want to separate. Wood => resin => sticky... sawdust that sat in a container for a while might have clumped more or less (depending on the wood type) - then a cyclone based separator will have a way easier life as the heavier the particles, the better the separation.
Thus putting the nozzle inside a pile of settled dust quite possibly is different to having a tool generate it fresh.

Offline Don Ware

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I used saw dust that was not more that a week old. A lot of sanding RO 150 on Lumber 40 grit, Demo of a 850 planer, Domino 500 and 700, Routing I chamfered 50 of our MFT squares to send to amazon and Sawing ( manly domestic hardwood plywood ) Humidity was 52. I've been using this for a month and I can tell you how full the bucket is makes a really big difference !!!!! ( yes I over filled the bucket on the cyclone...…….. guess what at that point it fills the bag, All you have to do is be smarter than the vacuum...…………. I failed ) LOL !!! But all that makes a big difference !!!! but the fuller that clear bucket gets makes a difference too. But it really does work, If you can come by the shop I'll show you !!!! I like things that work !!!!! And Peter's video's are Great been watching them for a long time !!!!!! There are just some many variables in this one. So putting a number on how much dust is Hard !!!!! If you have a better way , Let me know …….
Don Ware
Anderson Plywood Sales
Culver City, California

Offline bwehman

  • Posts: 39
I'm so stoked to get one of these in the shop. I loved the dust deputy, but I'm so bad at remembering to check the black box that it often negates the purpose of having it in the first place when it overfills during a heavy planing session and fills up the CT. The clear tub is the real money saver, for me at least.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3576
I have a minor technical point of agreement with Scorpian and Gregor. Sucking up big clumps of pure dust is not similar to using a saw/vac (or any other tool). A substantial amount of dust within a clump passing into the clear bin is shielded from the updraft airstream that goes to the vac bag.

This makes the ratio of total weight in the bin compared to weight of the bag a little off in favor of the CT Cyclone. Not nearly enough to discredit the test. Thanks for doing that Don!

Still think making 20 cuts in mdf with both systems would provide a measurable amount of dust and be a good simulation of actual workshop use.

Offline CirclDigital

  • Posts: 67
I have seen some comments from people who actually bought one that adding one reduces the suction of the vacs quite significantly because the seals on the ct-va-20 aren’t that tight. Someone care to comment on that?

I don’t really mind a bit less efficiency in separation vs other solutions but losing suction I don’t really care for in some applications.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 03:31 AM by CirclDigital »

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 76
Mine arrived yesterday but I only had a short time to play with it. I did notice a reduction in suction more with the SYS hooked up than the MIDI. This was using the empirical hand-over-the-end-of-the-tube test and the cyclone top was left untouched between switching vacs so the seal should've been the same for both.

I'd guesstimate the reduction being vaguely in the 15% (SYS) and 5% (MIDI) range, but that's in no way reliable [big grin]. I didn't empty out the bags or clean the filters; they were hooked up as they were. The SYS was ~40% full and I didn't check the MIDI bag but, IIRC, it's somewhere near half full. Another factor could be the hoses as I used the old ribbed D27 with the MIDI and the new slinky D27 with the SYS.

Tonights plan (kids willing!) is to try them again with new bags, the same hose and to clean their respective filters as best I can. I am a wee bit concerned that the SYS perhaps struggles more thus putting more strain on the motor (or it could be the bag as it's been reused many times over). Will see tonight.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 04:35 AM by Roachmill »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Peter Parfitt

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You need to watch emptying and re-using extractor bags. I used to do it with my CT26 but stopped after doing my dust study years ago.

Basically, the bag material is an important part of the filtration process as air passes through the material of the bag on its way to the main filter. It does not take long for the bag material to become saturated with small dust particles which then clogs the weave and reduces the effectiveness of the extractor. It is usually noticeable when a discolouration of the bag material is evident. This often happens as the bag becomes full for its first time of use. If you then empty and re-use the bag then the starting point will not be ideal and things go down hill from there on.

This is the reason that I stopped emptying my bags and went over to the UDD. With that setup I periodically check the bag in the CT and find that it only needs to be changed about once a year (more energetic woodworkers may need to do the change more often).

Peter

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1021
I wonder if having no seal between the top and the bin being intentional so that blocking the inlet can't collapse the bin, by the maximum pressure differential being limited by air leaking in through the seam (which should quickly increase in case the clear bin decides to deform).

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 76
Absolutely Peter. That's the plan now I've something to catch the vast majority of debris. It'll certainly make the cost of replacing CT bags a whole lot more palatable. Which reminds me, I'll need to have a hunt for compatible clear bin bags. IDK what Festool are charging for their branded ones... but I can hazard a guess!

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Absolutely Peter. That's the plan now I've something to catch the vast majority of debris. It'll certainly make the cost of replacing CT bags a whole lot more palatable. Which reminds me, I'll need to have a hunt for compatible clear bin bags. IDK what Festool are charging for their branded ones... but I can hazard a guess!

The bags are product code 204296 and have a RRP (inc VAT) of £22.92 for 10. I am sure that some of the box shifters will beat that price.

Peter

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 76
Ta for the product code but 10 for £20 still sounds a lot to me, not that I'd be changing them all that often. But then I am an Aberdonian and we're world renowned for having deep pockets and short arms ;)

I'm currently looking at paper shredder bags as an alternative. 40ish litre ones appear to be somewhere around the right dimensions and 100 for £12 ain't bad. I would imagine they'll be a thinner gauge but may be worth a punt.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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The only thing to watch, and I am sure that Festool have this right, is that a clear bag allows you to check before it is overfull. As someone else (Don from Anderson I think) has said, if the drop box bag gets too full then everything goes into the CT and that bag is filled fairly quickly.

Of course having a paper bag does make the recycling profile look a lot better.

Peter

Offline CirclDigital

  • Posts: 67
Mine arrived yesterday but I only had a short time to play with it. I did notice a reduction in suction more with the SYS hooked up than the MIDI. This was using the empirical hand-over-the-end-of-the-tube test and the cyclone top was left untouched between switching vacs so the seal should've been the same for both.

Thanks... that most reviews seem to avoid this subject is a bit telling.

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 76
Of course having a paper bag does make the recycling profile look a lot better.

Peter
Sorry, my mistake: it's clear plastic bags for paper shredders I'm looking for.

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1324
There is probably a larger container out there somewhere that will work.  Maybe a tall kitchen trash can?

Online GoingMyWay

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Wouldn't the hose be too short if the container were taller?
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

TS55, CT26, RO150, CXS, ETS 150/3, ETS EC 150/5, MFT/3, TS75, DF500, DTS400, OF1400, CT SYS

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1324
Not if you placed the container on the floor next to the vac.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Wouldn't the hose be too short if the container were taller?

The seal is important and so if you want to do this just take an original drop box, remove the bottom and add on something bigger below.

As far as the hose goes the ends should be easily removed and fitted onto a new length of hose to suit the needs of the setup.

Or, to make life easier, just stick with things as they are.

Peter

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2198
If anything, I think the test Don did was more than real world. He basically overloaded the cyclone and forced it to produce results. The results were pretty astounding. I’m pretty slack-jawed with the results.

I’d expect that with the amount of debris that Don introduced into the cyclone and with the frequency that he kept introducing the debris that the cyclone would become overloaded. That would lead to a higher level of debris in the bag which was not the case.
   Although off topic a bit, my original UDD Cyclone and replacement unit handle massive dust input from using it with an 8" Drum Floor Sander, so if the Cyclone, any Cyclone ,is well thought out, it IS impressive how much dust they can handle.  Kudos to Festool, looks like an interesting set-up for people to use.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 76
New bag in the SYS made the world of difference. Couldn't notice any real drop in suction and smooth versus slinky hose made no odds. Thanks again Peter for the wise words.

I also gave up on finding alternative bags (couldn't find comparible sizes that weren't paper thin) and just ordered the Festool ones. It's not like I'll be changing them every other day.

Offline Peter Halle

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  • Posts: 11564
Am I missing something?  If we are talking about the Festool bags that go into the Cyclone, can't they just be emptied just like dumping the bin?  And then reused?

Peter

Offline Don Ware

  • Festool Dealer
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  • Posts: 74
  • Anderson Plywood
Most of the people I know that have the 36 AC ( planex extractor ) reuse the liner over and over should be the same on the CT Cyclone. But with the Cyclone it would be more work to dump the bag then reinstall it, Just dump the dust out of the bin with out a bag skip the reinstalling the bag part.
Don Ware
Anderson Plywood Sales
Culver City, California

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 76
Emptying the bin, or even a bag, will be an option for some but it's not all that viable for me where I live (a small island in the North Sea). I only have a small workspace with no air purification so emptying dust inside is not ideal. Outside it is then... however, due to getting hammered by high wind a lot of the time, it's "not fun" and it'll be a whole lot easier and safer to just bin it. The bags will make what has been a major PITA for me a lot quicker and easier.

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
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  • Posts: 4070
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Emptying the bin, or even a bag, will be an option for some but it's not all that viable for me where I live (a small island in the North Sea). I only have a small workspace with no air purification so emptying dust inside is not ideal. Outside it is then... however, due to getting hammered by high wind a lot of the time, it's "not fun" and it'll be a whole lot easier and safer to just bin it. The bags will make what has been a major PITA for me a lot quicker and easier.

With strong westerly winds you do not need to take too much care - the Norwegians might get worried though !

Peter

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 76


With strong westerly winds you do not need to take too much care - the Norwegians might get worried though !

Peter
Ha ha. Yes, they might. If you believe D.I. Perez from the Anne Cleves "Shetland" TV series,"You can see Norway from here on a clear day". You can't!


Offline Windsor Plywood Calgary West

  • Festool Dealer
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  • Posts: 9
    • Windsor Plywood
Mine arrived yesterday but I only had a short time to play with it. I did notice a reduction in suction more with the SYS hooked up than the MIDI. This was using the empirical hand-over-the-end-of-the-tube test and the cyclone top was left untouched between switching vacs so the seal should've been the same for both.

I am new to the site but am a Festool Dealer in Canada with Windsor Plywood Calgary West in Alberta. The CT Cyclone is not designed to work with the SYS, MINI or MIDI collectors. Not sure if that was covered or not within the thread.

We got our demo unit tuesday and I have to say that I am quite impressed with it as we have it on a 26 that we use in our shop. The unit makes the minimum operating height of the 26 before you can stack more Systainers almost 40" or 1010mm so its a bit taller than most would like.
Daniel Harcus
Windsor Plywood Calgary West
Proud Festool Dealer

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 76
Mine arrived yesterday but I only had a short time to play with it. I did notice a reduction in suction more with the SYS hooked up than the MIDI. This was using the empirical hand-over-the-end-of-the-tube test and the cyclone top was left untouched between switching vacs so the seal should've been the same for both.

I am new to the site but am a Festool Dealer in Canada with Windsor Plywood Calgary West in Alberta. The CT Cyclone is not designed to work with the SYS, MINI or MIDI collectors. Not sure if that was covered or not within the thread.

We got our demo unit tuesday and I have to say that I am quite impressed with it as we have it on a 26 that we use in our shop. The unit makes the minimum operating height of the 26 before you can stack more Systainers almost 40" or 1010mm so its a bit taller than most would like.
It has been mentioned but no reason given as to why only for CT26+. It does appear to work with the smaller extractors so any official reason why it shouldn't be used would be appreciated.

Offline Don Ware

  • Festool Dealer
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  • Posts: 74
  • Anderson Plywood
The hose is not long enough to work on the Mini or the Midi.
Don Ware
Anderson Plywood Sales
Culver City, California

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 76
The hose is not long enough to work on the Mini or the Midi.
The short coupling hose? It fits my midi with the VA on top - all be it snuggly.

Offline Windsor Plywood Calgary West

  • Festool Dealer
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  • Posts: 9
    • Windsor Plywood
There is no official response that I was given as to why it is not listed as compatible with the SYS/MINI/MIDI. The only reason I can see it not working as well due to the lower suction of the smaller collectors. So far my testing of it is with the 26 and we have been putting it through its paces. We are quite impressed with it but are yet to see much interest from our contractors.
Daniel Harcus
Windsor Plywood Calgary West
Proud Festool Dealer

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 76
Thanks for that. An official reason would be good. Although, having put the SYS through its paces today with great results, I do wonder whether it's to sell pricier extractors. The TS55, RO 90 and Kapex all did their thing today with 20mm oak and there was not a drop (OK, maybe a puff) of dust in the SYS bag at the end of the day.

It's early days but a small vac with comparible small cyclone in a small shop has made me smile several times today :D

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1021
We are quite impressed with it but are yet to see much interest from our contractors.

The thing (together with a pack of bins and the power extension that you need when you have a sleeved hose) cost about the same as a CTL MIDI - and takes about same space as one. Space is premium for quite many contractor vans I would suspect.

I also guess the same is true about money, you can buy plenty of bags (and they'll take less room) for the price of one pre separator - bags that you'll bill your customer for anyway.

Offline Windsor Plywood Calgary West

  • Festool Dealer
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    • Windsor Plywood
The official news from my supplier is "The reason the CT Pre-Separator is not recommended for the small collectors is that Festool has not done substantial enough testing to know for sure if there could be any negative outcomes in the long term. Once the testing has been done to their liking, they will release new information on the unit."

Hope this helps guys!
Daniel Harcus
Windsor Plywood Calgary West
Proud Festool Dealer

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 76
Thanks for taking the time to ask and passing it on. I'd call it good news... in a glass half full way ;)

Offline Windsor Plywood Calgary West

  • Festool Dealer
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    • Windsor Plywood
You are most welcome. We are still new to the world of Festool so asking the questions you guys have helps us gain more knowledge as well.
Daniel Harcus
Windsor Plywood Calgary West
Proud Festool Dealer

Offline Farming_Sawyer

  • Posts: 43
  • Sawyer, builder, winemaker, farmer, chef
    • Foley's Custom Sawmill
Seem like more than once I've seen pics of the cyclone hooked up to the SYS.... Seems like a great combo. Small extractor for on the job, but if you need to plane down a door or two put the cyclone on it so the bag doesn't fill up..... I upgraded from a Midi to CT26 because I'd heard the cyclone won't work with it... My sales guy thought different. Didn't think there was any reason it shouldn't. 
CT 26E, RO125, sys-mft, sys-toolbox, a bunch of 30 year old tools I'm looking to replace.

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Offline Windsor Plywood Calgary West

  • Festool Dealer
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    • Windsor Plywood
Seem like more than once I've seen pics of the cyclone hooked up to the SYS.... Seems like a great combo.

It may look like its hooked up to a SYS because the Cyclone its self minus the clear plastic container is the same size as the SYS, top and bottom together.

The Cyclone will work with the SYS, MIDI and MINI but Festool does not know if prolonged use could have negative effects on the smaller units.
Daniel Harcus
Windsor Plywood Calgary West
Proud Festool Dealer

Offline infer

  • Posts: 4
Received the CT cyclone today. As others have posted it does reduce suction but that was expected. A few personal complaints. The short hose connecting the cyclone to the CT is 27mm and with two 90 bends reduces air flow. Why not a 50mm hose?  The top part of the cyclone is not secure in it’s location and installing or removing the hose moves the outlet out of position. On a positive note the unit works well and after 1 hour of mdf vcarving only a few specs of mdf are in the bag. Also if you place the unit next to the CT it fits under the cms.
285347-0

Offline ach_78

  • Posts: 47
Price made me chuckle and design is frankly unimpressive.
For the price of a cyclone (about 35€), and some change for plywood, you can make a unit (with your other Festools tools) that will fit your exact ideal vision of how it should be, all this for a fraction of the cost. Without putting much time into it either. Festool has gone insane on the accessories prices, reminds me of Apple now.

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 742
I know I could not make one of these, to this standard in 3 hours. However that is the great part. You can decide how you wish to do this or even if you want to do it.

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 576

The Cyclone will work with the SYS, MIDI and MINI but Festool does not know if prolonged use could have negative effects on the smaller units.


Spent a few days thinking about this.  If there is any concern about prolonged “negative effects”, then that likely means damage (can’t see what else that would mean).  Midi is not significantly different than a 26 so why would they not be concerned about prolonged damage to all of the vacs?

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 576
Received the CT cyclone today. As others have posted it does reduce suction but that was expected. A few personal complaints. The short hose connecting the cyclone to the CT is 27mm and with two 90 bends reduces air flow. Why not a 50mm hose?  The top part of the cyclone is not secure in it’s location and installing or removing the hose moves the outlet out of position. On a positive note the unit works well and after 1 hour of mdf vcarving only a few specs of mdf are in the bag. Also if you place the unit next to the CT it fits under the cms.
(Attachment Link)

Just tried mine out .  Far from scientific but using the 50mm instead of the supplied hose.  Hand test shows significant reduction in suck (maybe 25-30%) when switching the main hose (attached to the boom arm) between the collector and the main unit.  It’ll work for operations where big suck isn’t needed but things like the Kapex, no way.

Was originally thinking about getting one for every machine.  Now thinking I’ll try one out for a while and wait and see.   

Offline bwehman

  • Posts: 39
I have a short length of D36 I'm going to put on mine tonight to see if a difference exists too. We'll see! Either way, I'm just excited I can optimize the floor print of my shop more so with this thing. The DD was great, of course, but now the foot print that took up can be used for more stacking.

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 76
...Hand test shows significant reduction in suck (maybe 25-30%)...
If you have a brand new bag I'd suggest swapping it in and see if that makes any odds. I noticed a similar drop in suckage when using the CT-SYS and a new bag all but eliminated it.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2011
I haven't had a chance to try mine yet, am waiting for the right angle connectors I ordered from Oneida.  I'm going to use a short piece of 50mm hose for the junction hose.

Offline bwehman

  • Posts: 39
Upon closer inspection, I don't think adding a larger diameter inlet hose will matter since the inlet to the cyclone itself is 27mm.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1538
Upon closer inspection, I don't think adding a larger diameter inlet hose will matter since the inlet to the cyclone itself is 27mm.
It still matters, but not much. The cyclone might be a bottleneck, but loads are additive.
On a separate note, a 27 mm inlet to the cyclone is ridiculous. Simply poor design.

Offline bluedog18

  • Posts: 7
Has anyone hook their pre separator to a CT Midi yet?

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 76
Has anyone hook their pre separator to a CT Midi yet?
Sure have. Locks on top and the short connector hose is a tight (in a stretching sense) fit but it does reach easy enough.

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 576
...Hand test shows significant reduction in suck (maybe 25-30%)...
If you have a brand new bag I'd suggest swapping it in and see if that makes any odds. I noticed a similar drop in suckage when using the CT-SYS and a new bag all but eliminated it.

The difference is between collector and no collector on the same machine.  The bag is a constant...unless you’re saying that the collectors impact on suction will increase as the bag fills.

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 576
Upon closer inspection, I don't think adding a larger diameter inlet hose will matter since the inlet to the cyclone itself is 27mm.

Didn’t consider that.  Good point though.  If the internals are smaller than the 50mm hose, it soundly matter.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2011
Keep in mid that decreasing inlet will increase velocity...should make separation more efficient.

Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 579
I like the idea of the Festool cyclone, except for the small capacity of the bin.  With a thicknesser that would fill up in minutes.

I plan making a cyclone to fit on top of a 240 litre "wheelie bin", using a cut-down road cone as the centre.

Has anyone else attempted this, and if so, with what success?

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 76
...Hand test shows significant reduction in suck (maybe 25-30%)...
If you have a brand new bag I'd suggest swapping it in and see if that makes any odds. I noticed a similar drop in suckage when using the CT-SYS and a new bag all but eliminated it.

The difference is between collector and no collector on the same machine.  The bag is a constant...unless you’re saying that the collectors impact on suction will increase as the bag fills.
In my lone experience, the difference was a partially clogged bag (the first one had been filled and emptied several times) and a brand spanking new one.

Offline guitarchitect

  • Posts: 60
...Hand test shows significant reduction in suck (maybe 25-30%)...
If you have a brand new bag I'd suggest swapping it in and see if that makes any odds. I noticed a similar drop in suckage when using the CT-SYS and a new bag all but eliminated it.
I would wonder if you couldn't skip the bag altogether. You'd have to be careful you don't clog your filter by overloading the bin, but I bet you'd offset your loss in suction.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 576
...Hand test shows significant reduction in suck (maybe 25-30%)...
If you have a brand new bag I'd suggest swapping it in and see if that makes any odds. I noticed a similar drop in suckage when using the CT-SYS and a new bag all but eliminated it.
I would wonder if you couldn't skip the bag altogether. You'd have to be careful you don't clog your filter by overloading the bin, but I bet you'd offset your loss in suction.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

No bag in the cyclone, have a bag in the DC


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Offline infer

  • Posts: 4
Well after two weeks of use I find the CT cyclone drops suction so much that my small workshop is starting to fill with dust that was not noticeable before. Tried new bags and bigger hoses. First festool product that I regret buying. My 15 euro chinese dust commander performs much better than the CT-VA.

Offline guitarchitect

  • Posts: 60
...Hand test shows significant reduction in suck (maybe 25-30%)...
If you have a brand new bag I'd suggest swapping it in and see if that makes any odds. I noticed a similar drop in suckage when using the CT-SYS and a new bag all but eliminated it.
I would wonder if you couldn't skip the bag altogether. You'd have to be careful you don't clog your filter by overloading the bin, but I bet you'd offset your loss in suction.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

No bag in the cyclone, have a bag in the DC


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
What I'm actually wondering is if you could skip the bag in the DC, though. People report so little dust coming through the pre-separators that leaving out the bag may help recover some suction/static pressure

I'm not surprised at the comments here - early on it was clear this was a fancy thien separator, which have always been said to create a big SP loss compared to a cyclone.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 384

[/quote]What I'm actually wondering is if you could skip the bag in the DC, though. People report so little dust coming through the pre-separators that leaving out the bag may help recover some suction/static pressure

[/quote]

Skipping the bag all together would ruin the expensive  HEPA in short order.  Personally, I wouldn't even try it.

Offline bwehman

  • Posts: 39
Two weeks in running this thing through the daily grind and OHMYGAWD it's amazing. Just cannot believe how well this thing works for being shoved into a systainer form factor. I've run it through sanding workflows, planers (DW735X w/helical blade), jointing, Kapex-ing and all sorts of jigsaw and router tasks, as well as overall shop cleanup, and it really is at least just as good as the dust deputy was in performance and suction, but then of course, it's so much better in form factor and practicality. The clear bin is really invaluable too. With the DD, I'd lose track during a long planing session and then have an oh-crap moment when I finally remembered that I'm probably starting to overflow into the CT bag. It's been great watching the bin slowly fill and then empty before accidentally running it over into the CT. Overall 10/10 would recommend.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1260
I wonder why the Oneida couldn’t be manufactured with a clear bin?  As long as the cyclone is conductive the ground path is maintained, so what purpose does the conductive bucket have (other than obscuring the one thing you need to know...is it full yet)?
-Raj

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 576
Wood whisperer did a test on YouTube and verified my findings - 30% loss in suction how I’m configured.  Apparently I’m fairly accurate at had suction guesstimating. [emoji41]

After using it for a while I’d say that for some tasks (ones where the collector had maybe more suction than necessary where a reduction isn’t impactful like sanding, where I previously had to turn down the suck of the collector anyway) it works well.  In other cases, where collection was previously barely acceptable (like kapex), the collector just reduces the suction to the point where it can’t capture enough now to be deemed acceptable.

I do not have many tools that create big chips.  I do have a router but haven’t tried it yet.  I suspect it will shine there if it has enough suction to pull all the chips from the work field.

Offline bwehman

  • Posts: 39
I ended up replacing the supplied 27mm hose of the CT-VA with a shortened length of 36mm hose and suction is materially unchanged.