Author Topic: New Multi-Jetstream2 sandpaper has much less actual sandpaper  (Read 2249 times)

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Offline bnaboatbuilder

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Seeing the new sandpaper for the 6" Multi-Jetstream2 pads made my head scratch a little bit. That's a lot of holes and a lot less sandpaper. The price is the same. Less usable sandpaper surface will mean buying more sandpaper. Empty holes don't sand wood. I'm sure Yoda would say it better. Personally 100% dust extraction sounds like a load of bologna regardless. This is woodworking, no matter what, there will always be dust. The marketing department just needs to stop with that nonsense.

So I put some high resolution photos into Photoshop which has a feature of calculating areas. Here's what I came up with basic math.

The 6" standard Festool paper with 17 holes has 93.6% usable sandpaper on each disc.
The new 6" Multi-Jetstream2 sandpaper with 49 holes has only 87.3% usable sandpaper on each disc.

Klingspor sells both a 9 hole and 17 hole sandpaper for the Festool 6" sanders. Their 9 hole discs have 95.8% usable sanding surface.

Honestly I think Festool should have gone with smaller holes entirely at that quantity. It will certainly be an added cost to users no matter what in having to buy more sandpaper in the long run. Less grit, less sanding accomplished.

Festool 17 hole pattern left and 49 hole pattern right.


Another note worth saying is that the purpose of 6" sander over a 5" is greatly diminished when 49 holes and only 87.3% usable grit on a 6" disc gets compared to a 5" disc with only 8 holes. I think Festool erred here greatly.

At this juncture, I use Klingspor stearate discs mainly and Mirka Abranet secondary for my sanders. I've lost count but I have approx 10 powered sanders and 4 contoured block sanders. I'm more than happy with Klingspor on my 6" Rotex and Abranet on the 6" Ceros. Any netted sanding discs unfortunately tear far too easily at the edges. The Ceros loses smoothness with papered discs.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 07:47 PM by bnaboatbuilder »
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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: New Multi-Jetstream2 sandpaper has much less actual sandpaper
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2018, 06:25 PM »
Darn Dude, go sand.  Taking the time to actually measure sandpaper area versus hole area is impressive I guess, but have you used the new paper yet to see if it works better than other versions before it?  Or is this all based on your previous experiences and interpolated.  Have you done the same with the Abranet?

Sorry for the short post.  Making chicken cordon bleu and need to examine my swiss cheese -  [big grin] (meant as a joke).

Peter

Offline jobsworth

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Re: New Multi-Jetstream2 sandpaper has much less actual sandpaper
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2018, 10:58 PM »
I buy boxes of sand paperbc Id hate to get in the middle of aproject and run out of a particular grit. I still have plenty left.
 When I get through these, Ill be buying the jet stream hard pad and the sand paper.

Re: New Multi-Jetstream2 sandpaper has much less actual sandpaper
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2018, 11:04 PM »
Thanks for posting.  This didn't occur to me at all.  I'm wondering if Mesh has even less sanding surface area...

I'm interested to try the new pad next time I replace mine, but I have to say Mirka is my favorite sandpaper.  I do hate the way it can tear when sanding corners but it seems to last longer and do more damage in Rotex Mode.

I was told Festool is also coming out with a mesh paper.  Perhaps there is more to the new sanding pad design than just more holes.  It seems like it is shaped to allow material removal and not clog the paper.  If it prevents paper clogging then the sandpaper might last longer or be more effective.

It would make sense that they thought of this and did the math. 

Offline David

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Re: New Multi-Jetstream2 sandpaper has much less actual sandpaper
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2018, 11:18 PM »
I'm with Peter. What possible reason would Festool have for feeding us a bunch of nonsense? Maybe give them the benefit of the doubt, first.
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Offline Shane Holland

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Re: New Multi-Jetstream2 sandpaper has much less actual sandpaper
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2018, 11:23 PM »
My very rough calculations are about 26.1 square inches of abrasive with Multi-Jetstream and about 24.1 square inches with Multi-Jetstream2. Or, about 8% less.

I think what may be easy to overlook are the benefits of those extra holes, which result in lower surface temperatures and better removal of debris (including broken down abrasive) that's wearing away at your disc.

Knowing the R&D team at Festool, I suspect they measured the results and found that the abrasive lasted longer. So, even though there may technically be slightly less abrasive area, if it lasts longer that's a benefit and makes it cheaper for you in the long run. Essentially, the sanding disc needs to last 8%+ longer under the same conditions.

I'm pretty sure that the abrasive is added to the sheet and then the holes are drilled. So, Festool isn't reducing costs by adding holes.

Just my 2 cents.

ETA: If you like the old paper, load up on it now because it's being discontinued and you soon will not have an option.

@kevinmichaelburns, the mesh abrasive (Granat NET) is now available.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 11:25 PM by Shane Holland »
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Offline greg mann

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Re: New Multi-Jetstream2 sandpaper has much less actual sandpaper
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2018, 09:28 AM »
I agree the loss of 8% abrasive is minimal to determine its useful life but performance is really the issue. The important metric is overall coverage of the disc. Put another way, the 6 inch disc excels at covering a larger area of the work. What goes on between the disc and the work is a totally different issue. Less contact surface should mean less pressure for the abrasive to penetrate. We all know that the concept is to not put any downward pressure on the sander and to let its own weight do the work but I am guessing most of us fudge a little on that. Eight percent less contact area should make the weight of the sander eight percent more effective in penetrating the surface while the closer spacing of the holes may improve the cooling and dust extraction dramatically, and, the dust extraction I am thinking about is not necessarily what you think of making it into the surrounding air but more than likely the dust that stays trapped between the  paper and the work. If that dust gets removed then the abrasive action becomes far more effective. My guess is it will take less time to do its work and that would be the payoff. 
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Oakland, Michigan

Offline GoingMyWay

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Re: New Multi-Jetstream2 sandpaper has much less actual sandpaper
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2018, 09:42 AM »
ETA: If you like the old paper, load up on it now because it's being discontinued and you soon will not have an option.

I didn't realize that the old paper is being discontinued.  Thanks for the warning, I better get the higher grits that I've been wanting now!
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Offline RustE

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Re: New Multi-Jetstream2 sandpaper has much less actual sandpaper
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2018, 10:21 AM »
...
ETA: If you like the old paper, load up on it now because it's being discontinued and you soon will not have an option.
...

@Shane Holland  Is this only applicable to the 150mm dia pad and abrasives?

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: New Multi-Jetstream2 sandpaper has much less actual sandpaper
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2018, 10:23 AM »
Is this only applicable to the 150mm dia pad and abrasives?

@RustE, yes, only the 6" (150mm) discs and pads were affected by the change.

You can find and order the new or old style Festool 150mm abrasives at this link.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 10:26 AM by Shane Holland »
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Offline McNally Family

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Re: New Multi-Jetstream2 sandpaper has much less actual sandpaper
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2018, 11:47 AM »
I'm certainly not a sanding expert, but it seems to me the faster you can remove the dust, the less sanding you end up doing.   Therefore the more holes, the more efficient the dust removal. Seems like this would be a plus, but I could be wrong (and frequently am).
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Offline leakyroof

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Re: New Multi-Jetstream2 sandpaper has much less actual sandpaper
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2018, 01:47 PM »
Seeing the new sandpaper for the 6" Multi-Jetstream2 pads made my head scratch a little bit. That's a lot of holes and a lot less sandpaper. The price is the same. Less usable sandpaper surface will mean buying more sandpaper. Empty holes don't sand wood. I'm sure Yoda would say it better. Personally 100% dust extraction sounds like a load of bologna regardless. This is woodworking, no matter what, there will always be dust. The marketing department just needs to stop with that nonsense.

So I put some high resolution photos into Photoshop which has a feature of calculating areas. Here's what I came up with basic math.

The 6" standard Festool paper with 17 holes has 93.6% usable sandpaper on each disc.
The new 6" Multi-Jetstream2 sandpaper with 49 holes has only 87.3% usable sandpaper on each disc.

Klingspor sells both a 9 hole and 17 hole sandpaper for the Festool 6" sanders. Their 9 hole discs have 95.8% usable sanding surface.

Honestly I think Festool should have gone with smaller holes entirely at that quantity. It will certainly be an added cost to users no matter what in having to buy more sandpaper in the long run. Less grit, less sanding accomplished.

Festool 17 hole pattern left and 49 hole pattern right.


Another note worth saying is that the purpose of 6" sander over a 5" is greatly diminished when 49 holes and only 87.3% usable grit on a 6" disc gets compared to a 5" disc with only 8 holes. I think Festool erred here greatly.

At this juncture, I use Klingspor stearate discs mainly and Mirka Abranet secondary for my sanders. I've lost count but I have approx 10 powered sanders and 4 contoured block sanders. I'm more than happy with Klingspor on my 6" Rotex and Abranet on the 6" Ceros. Any netted sanding discs unfortunately tear far too easily at the edges. The Ceros loses smoothness with papered discs.
   Yoda sez...... Hmm, Said it Well now you DID.... [poke] [poke] [poke] 
 However, back to seriousness....  The OLD, OLD paper from Festool was just a ring of holes, then we got Multistream 1, and now the newest version...  I haven't seen a decrease in sanding ability with any of the versions, but it is a bit comical how 'holey' the paper and pads are getting...  [wink]
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 01:54 PM by leakyroof »
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....