Author Topic: New to me LS130 ...  (Read 3394 times)

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Offline Mike S

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New to me LS130 ...
« on: April 13, 2018, 02:44 PM »
All,

I have acquired a new-to-me LS 130.  When I take it out of the Systainer, there is a damp spot underneath which turns out to be oil.  The sander itself is damp on the metal housing just under the plastic case on the right side of the sander.

Normal, or not good ?  I would expect this to be bone dry.

Let me know your thoughts. 

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Online Birdhunter

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Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2018, 02:49 PM »
Cannot imagine that being normal. Mine was bone dry.
Birdhunter

Offline copcarcollector

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Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2018, 04:36 PM »
So after you cleaned it off, did it leak more or.....?

Offline Mike S

  • Posts: 30
Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2018, 04:44 PM »
So after you cleaned it off, did it leak more or.....?

Haven't cleaned it off yet.  Wanted to check first.

I can't imagine this has a gear case full of oil. 

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 4820
Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2018, 04:45 PM »
I haven’t used mine in 18 months. Pulled it out of the Systainer and it’s bone 🍖 dry.

Offline Mike S

  • Posts: 30
Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2018, 05:01 PM »
I called service... a little too late. 

They will touch base with me on Monday.  The gal that runs the Recon store doesn't believe there is anything to be concerned about, but she will be verifying with service on Monday.


Offline jobsworth

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Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2018, 06:40 PM »
Wipe it off use it a few times let it sit if no more oil appears and it runs good I wouldn’t sweat it

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 278
Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2018, 08:15 PM »
I've had & used a couple of Duplex sanders (LS130s) for some years now.  Bone dry so far, but that's the least of this tool's issues in my opinion.

In fact, over some 30 odd years the only Festo/ol's that I've had leak oil are the Kapex 120s, a well known & pretty endemic issue:  I've come across some 10 or so with this particular problem, including my own.  Maybe some slight ullage from the casing of my Trion jigsaw too, but not enough to be of concern.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Mike S

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Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2018, 11:39 PM »
I've had & used a couple of Duplex sanders (LS130s) for some years now.  Bone dry so far, but that's the least of this tool's issues in my opinion.


Ut oh, what issues do you feel this tool has?

I am kind of jazzed about it, but now you have me wondering ...

Offline Mike S

  • Posts: 30
Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2018, 11:53 PM »
Wipe it off use it a few times let it sit if no more oil appears and it runs good I wouldn’t sweat it

now that I called service and documented it with photographs, I have no idea why I haven't wiped it off.  *sigh*

I plead the fifth.

Probably because a need a fifth.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 278
Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2018, 08:43 AM »
I've had & used a couple of Duplex sanders (LS130s) for some years now.  Bone dry so far, but that's the least of this tool's issues in my opinion.


Ut oh, what issues do you feel this tool has?

I am kind of jazzed about it, but now you have me wondering ...

Its just too flamin' s-l-o-w in use.  Honestly, a hand block, appropriately sized dowel or shaped wooden offcut wrapped in painters' paper is much more efficient, if a tad more messy in operation.

The convex pads' backing foam doesn't seem to last either.  A combo of frequent, rapid paper tearoff, exchange & repositioning, UV exposure & a bit of heat generated by friction seems to prematurely break down the contact between the velcro hook sheet & the foam, which tends to just crumble away. beneath.

The coarser papers on the profiled pads are forced to follow the same track back & forth, which leads to rapid, premature clogging with painted finishes.  Unlike orbitals & random sanders, the individual sanding papers last no time at all.

At about AU $60+ ea. for the profiled pads the promise of a simple and easy hand-sanding substitute is in reality more of a disappointingly slow, expensive-to-run disappointment.

I no longer have either of mine:  one was nicked, the other gifted to my ex-wife with a CTL Sys as a subtle form of "payback".  None of them are missed, neither are the sanders!

I've since picked up Mirka's DEOS orbital with similar base dimensions (but no profiled pads obviously):  as with all Mirka's sander range that I've so far experienced & used, it's just "a better mousetrap"  than the alternatives.  It's not just the gamechangeing Abranet abrasives either;  Mirka just seems to make a superior tool these days.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Joe Felchlin

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Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2018, 04:46 PM »
I’ve had my LS130 - Along with multiple profile heads - For 5+ years.
Nary a leak of any kind.
I’m not a professional - But a serious hobbyist.
So, my tools get used regularly - But not daily, hard use.

For me, the LS130 is a terrific, multi-use sander.
Admittedly, it’s not an “aggressive” sander - Like my RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander -
But, for finish sanding a variety of surfaces/contours - It’s a great tool.

Hope you get some answers - And a satisfying “fix”.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 04:59 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline aloysius

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Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2018, 10:32 PM »
I will concede that the Duplex sander's accessory scraper base is a pretty useful addition if you have the need.  Just the ticket for removing smaller scale glued coverings such as worn stair tread protectors etc.  The tool's linear action lends itself to the scraping action quite efficiently.

If fitted & used backwards, it makes for a much more comfortable grip.  Keep the leading edge clean & sharp-ish & don't overwork it.  Let the tool do the work, not you.  If the action becomes too "juddery" or it pig-roots, then you're pushing it a bit too hard.

This is a pretty worthy successor to the old Festo RS1 carpet/tile scraper from the 90s, which interestingly had a lovely long accessory handle that allowed floor-level scraping from a standing position.  I believe this tool is still made, but it's orbital action makes it a bit less efficient & vibratory in use.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 567
Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2018, 11:36 PM »
@aloysius and I disagree about everything.  [big grin] I love the LS130.   
It's always on the ready during finish sanding.   You have to be sure to
not go cross grain with it, which means (in my case) there's an RTS and DTS working with it.....and even a RO90.   Obviously, I generally prefer the round 125 and 150mm ROS's for the bulk.   



Offline jobsworth

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Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2018, 09:03 AM »
General question for those who have a LS130.

How is it for removing old paint?

 I have some exterior painting to do on my house.

 Paint on some of the eaves and fascia are peeling and need to be repainted?

Normally I would do this with a paint scraper and a wire brush.

Just curious, thanks for your advise.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 278
Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2018, 10:29 AM »
As previously mentioned, the Duplex sander is not all that accomplished at paint removal tasks.  Nor at paint maintenance.  Alternative sanders will do a much better job, quicker & less expensively in regard to consumables too.

Problem one is the linear action.  Whilst quite suited to timber finishing duties & maybe even intermediate sanding between finish coats, the paper is forced to follow the same track back & forth, rapidly clogging even stearate coated papers such as the Brilliant range & its equivalents.  It can't effectively sand up against "stopped" substrates, such as where a weatherboard butts against a corner block, architrave or sill moulding.  The tools just wants to bounce back fairly violently without abrading into the right angled concavity.  Angling the pad to compensate will induce excessive wear & premature breakdown of the pad's foam backing.  The papers just rapidly clog and can't be easily cleaned with abrasive cleaning blocks.

Problem 2 is slow operation.  It's probably the slowest sander I've ever used for paint removal.  In descending order of effectiveness & speed the following rules seem to apply for paint removal:  rotary sanders are the fastest but messiest, fastest of all being a mini-grinder fitted with a flexible backing pad & 16g abrasives.  Not really recommended, as it's terribly messy.

Next fastest is belt sanding, with 24-40g belts.  Belters tend to be big, heavy & fast, & a big handful on all but flat, horizontal surfaces.  Overhead or vertically or even held horizontally against a wall they can in fact be quite dangerous to operate, and are again not really recommended.

Next best is the rotary gear-driven eccentric action of the Rotex type machines.  Fastest is of course the big 'uns, like the Rotex 150 or the Fein 200mm machines.  I'm told that Rupes make a pretty good Rotary sander too, as do Makita & Bosch, but haven't as yet had the pleasure myself.

Next is the standard random orbit eccentric sanders.  Examples are legion, at a bewildering variety of price points.  The current state of the art in random orbit machines seems to be EC motored machines: Mirka/Metabo's Direct Eccentricity Random Orbit Sander (DEROS) in 8mm, 5mm & 2.5mm orbits in aggressive/general purpose/fine eccentricities respectively & Festool's own EC 150 random tools in 5 or 2.5mm grades.  These tend to feature a killer combination of extreme light weight (<1kg for the Mirka/Metabos), the amazingly effective & long-lasting abranet abrasives, smooth operation, tireless power & aggression (in the widest orbits).

Gear driven orbitals such as the Festool RS100 CQ (half-sheet) & DX93E (delta) are renowned for their aggressive action & longevity.  Many painters get by with just these 2 types of tools.  Somewhat less effective are the direct drive orbitals, although they tend to benefit from lighter construction at the expense of the heavy duty robustness of the gear-driven alternatives.  DD sanders come in a whole range of smaller sizes & shapes too, for different purposes.  Obviously a gear drive will work harder & with a full 5mm orbit will abrade faster than a 2.5 or 2.2mm direct orbital.  Likewise, a smaller sander won't be as fast, but will be a whole lot easier to use overhead, than a half sheet tool.

At the bottom of the pile are the linear sanders, being much more suited to finishing work than paint stripping.  I bought my 2 LS130s for this precise purpose:  stripping multiple aged layers of paint from hundreds of meters of complex colonial mouldings in a Victorian house, only to be bitterly disappointed in their miserable performance.  As previously mentioned, the scraper attachment is pretty useful, if mounted backwards, for light stripping duties only.  Nevertheless it's a lot slower than the trusted combination of a Bahco/Sandvik Wolfram Carbide scraper & heat gun that just about every professional painter & renovator carries in their kit.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 07:40 PM by aloysius »
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline jobsworth

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Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2018, 11:39 AM »
@aloysius

Thank you, that was a very detailed review. I have the rts400 which might work for overhead as its not to heavy. I also have the fien multicaster with a scraper blade that works ok. 

again thanks

Ron

Online Cheese

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Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2018, 11:49 AM »
I also have the fien multicaster with a scraper blade that works ok. 

I've used the LS 130 with the scraper blade for removing tile mastic from a bathroom plaster wall. It worked well if the mastic wasn't strongly bonded to the wall. In those cases, nothing short of a sharp chisel would remove the mastic and sometimes it took out some of the plaster along with the mastic.

If the paint is loose and peeling you may have some success with the scraper blade.

Offline jjowen

  • Posts: 91
Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2018, 06:40 PM »
At the bottom of the pile are the linear sanders, being much more suited to finishing work than paint stripping.  I bought my 2 LS130s for this precise purpose:  stripping multiple aged layers of paint from hundreds of meters of complex colonial mouldings in a Victorian house, only to be bitterly disappointed in their miserable performance. 

Darn, that is more or less why I bought mine. From my limited use of the LS130 so far, I am not at all surprised by your findings. Though I have found the lamellae pads (extend the pad beyond the body of the sander to get in under things) to be very useful. When I get around to the exterior of the house, I will just have to remember to take the Rotex and DTS400 too!
Disclaimer: All posts after 12:00pm on Fridays (GMT+10) should be independently verified for relevance and veracity.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 567
Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2018, 08:12 PM »
@aloysius

Thank you, that was a very detailed review. I have the rts400 which might work for overhead as its not to heavy. I also have the fien multicaster with a scraper blade that works ok. 

again thanks

Ron

The RTS, actually has a pretty fast removal rate for it's size and power.   

Honestly, for dedicated paint removal, I'd look into primarily using the Metabo Paint Stripper (or similar cutting tool) and then using any given geared ros (doesn't have to be a rotex) sander or a rotary sander or variable speed angle grinder with interface pads for the curved surfaces.  All of these things have dust extraction in 2018.

And to the op, the grease that Festool uses can certainly seperate if the tool sits without getting hot for awhile.   In that case, some oil will leak out wherever it finds it's way.   No big deal.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 08:17 PM by yetihunter »

Offline Mike S

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Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2018, 08:32 PM »

And to the op, the grease that Festool uses can certainly seperate if the tool sits without getting hot for awhile.   In that case, some oil will leak out wherever it finds it's way.   No big deal.

That is good to know.  I am expecting a call from Big Green tomorrow to see how they want to handle it.

Due to other reasons, I didn't get to try it out this weekend.  I have pretty decent degree of confidence it is just fine.  I was just surprised to see the schmoo in the box. 

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2018, 08:41 PM »
“Metabo Paint Stripper” is an interesting tool. Don’t know of anything similar.

I used it on a century old painted yellow pine (or similar) floor. Many cupped boards and though extremely dry still enough resin to make sanding a pain. Worked great.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 567
Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2018, 08:58 PM »
There's actually quite a few cutter head based paint stripping power tools on the market.   I don't know much about them, however, because it's just not something I do for a living.   



The Metabo I remember, but simply because I thumb through their catalog once a year.   [big grin]. It is, allegedly, one of, if not, the best in that category, or so the marketing told me.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2018, 10:58 PM »
That Metabo stripper is cool! Looks like ti uses spiral planer head inserts.

Seth

Offline Rip Van Winkle

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Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2018, 11:08 PM »
There's actually quite a few cutter head based paint stripping power tools on the market.   I don't know much about them, however, because it's just not something I do for a living.   



The Metabo I remember, but simply because I thumb through their catalog once a year.   [big grin]. It is, allegedly, one of, if not, the best in that category, or so the marketing told me.

The PaintShaver is the other major cutter based paint remover I know of. There was a review several years or more back in a woodworking or building magazine that compared the Metabo and the Paintshaver, although I don’t recall which magazine.

https://paintshaver.com/paintshaver-pro/


Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2018, 01:25 AM »
That Metabo stripper is cool! Looks like ti uses spiral planer head inserts.

Seth

Not spiral, just simple square carbide inserts that can be rotated four times.
Two cutters on the face and two on the rim perpendicular to the face.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 278
Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2018, 02:41 AM »
I've had Metabo's LF724 myself for a few years now.  Like any other tool it has both good & not-so-good characteristics.

The "doors" are a pretty weak link.  Literally.  Particular care needs to be taken with them in either open or closed positions.  They are weak spring loaded plastic, & are (apparently) easily snapped off.  I must admit that it's never happened to me in over 15 years ??  of ownership, but Amazon is full of other plaintive owners/users/abusers so I suppose it must be an issue.  I try to look after all my tools, particularly in use.

The cutters don't like metal at all.  Thin carbide never does.  One needs to carefully countersink or set ALL nailheads prior to use.  The tool acts as a paint planer or shaver, its cutterhead is recessed in an accurate, finely ground alloy guard block, & is micrometrically adjustable for depth.  You can literally shave off as little as one paint layer at a time of multiple coatings if the substrate is square & flat!  Too much depth & you tend to gouge off chunks of timber as well!

It's fast, too, if a little messy.  I sealed up one of the cutterhead guard's vent slots at the rear with tape in an attempt to capture more swarf, but don't really know how wise & effective this is.  Surely the vent slot is there for a purpose:  I just don't know why.  Venturi??  I also ground off the bayonet fittings on the dust spout to more easily accommodate a Festo/ol 36mm hose on the outside of the spout for greater airflow.  As with any copious dust & swarf producer, more vac airflow helps.  It's also noisier than most sanders except maybe belters. 

The "edge" cutters protrude a bit further out & aren't adjustable for depth, which actually makes them suitable for the interface in shiplap or bullnosed weatherboards.  Any roundels on weatherboards (the rest of a bullnosing) must obviously be treated with an alternative tool.  But it's not really the correct type of tool for fine work.

My favourite for this particular task is Metabo's fab. SXE400 ROS.  Tiny @ a mere 80mm dia., but no toy.  Gentle at only 3mm eccentricity, but remarkably effective. In fact, an ergonomic delight, being light, compact & non-damaging to delicate mouldings if used with care & finesse.  Everything, actually, that the RO90DX isn't.  I'm a fan, in case you didn't realise.  In fact, it's so useful that I have a couple of these, plus have given one each to my kids too:  5 in all.  It also takes Mirka's amazing 75mm abranet abrasives, pad protectors & interface pads, making for a superb fine sanding system most ideally suited to small & delicate  complex mouldings, convex & concave substrates than any other ROS I've ever encountered or used.  This &  small deltas (orbitals, not the Fein-type oscillators) are my most used sanders these days.

Where mess isn't an issue, a variable speed grinder, wound down to about 1/2 speed is still my favourite fast paint stripper of choice.  If a super-coarse disk is used & allowed to load up with paint residues, the resultant friction strips off just about all multiple coats in one go through friction & heat, without harming the wood beneath.  It's quite remarkable really.  The protective paint layer on the disc actually melts the existing paint away yet only burnishes the wood surface beneath relatively harmlessly.  Almost like magic.

Flamin' messy, but. Hot, melted paint residues are flung EVERYWHERE which may or may not be an issue for you.  On a path or drive they can be quickly & easily swept or vacuumed away.  On a lawn or garden bed that's impossible.  This is probably complete blasphemy to the average anally-retentive neat-freak, not to mention the legions of Festo Cleantec fanboys, but it's easily the fastest means I've encountered of paint stripping.  Goggles & mask are of course positively de rigeur.

Rotexes don't do a bad job, but I prefer the flatter, right angle sided hard pads to prevent the papers slipping between weatherboards.  A Rotex is also a bit of a handful up a ladder too.  In these circumstances, a loaded-paper mini-grinder or SXE 400 is much less of a single-handed workout than a big Rotex with hose attached, which tends to kick & buck in protest.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 03:17 AM by aloysius »
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Online Cheese

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Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2018, 11:02 AM »
For paint striping there's always the Porter Cable 7403. I've never used one, but thought they were an interesting tool because nails were less of an issue. The worst thing to happen would be to tear a sanding disc. They're in the $450-$550 range.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 567
Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2018, 05:46 PM »
@aloysius , when we took opposing sides on RO90 VS SXE400 a bit back; I didn't know you were talking about hanging
off the top of a ladder!  [scared] Yeah, I'd prefer the Metabo in that situation too!  :0

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 278
Re: New to me LS130 ...
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2018, 08:04 PM »
@aloysius , when we took opposing sides on RO90 VS SXE400 a bit back; I didn't know you were talking about hanging
off the top of a ladder!  [scared] Yeah, I'd prefer the Metabo in that situation too!  :0

The fact that we CAN disagree reflects a healthy level of debate on this, or any forum.  Without dissent, there's literally no debate:  instead we become a bunch of self-affirming, sycophantic yes-men.  The suppression, or worse, ridiculing of dissent reflects the opposite: that the original thesis is sufficiently weak that when arguments fail the default position becomes to attack the dissenter.  Unfortunately there's certain hostile elements within this & other fora that seemingly cannot appreciate the distinction.  Vigourously attack the argument if you disagree, but allow dissenting voices the right to their opinion irrespective of the veracity or legitimacy of the "erroneous" opinion.

The fact that at times we agree means that perhaps similar conclusions can occasionally be drawn despite originating from different paths.

The fact that we do at times dissent means that we take different paths, have divergent expectations, methodologies & requirements.

Vive la difference!

With regard to specifics, as the original salesman told me when I made my first LS130 purchase..."it's a special sander suitable only for specific tasks".  I agree.  As a finisher for fine moulding work it's not just pretty good, but possibly indispensible.  I have a coffin-making friend who uses his daily, who absolutely loves its capabilities as a paint/varnish final prep & intermediate (between coats) sander.  I believe he has several now, all pre-loaded with specific profiled bases & using Abranet abrasives which seem to  best suit its multi-hole bases.

As a paint stripper, however, I still regard it as a miserable failure.  It has no further use for me in my own tool arsenal, for the reasons previously described.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...