Author Topic: Popcorn ceiling sanding  (Read 31057 times)

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Offline Sean.M

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Popcorn ceiling sanding
« on: December 09, 2011, 06:25 PM »
I am looking for recommendations on tools to be used for sanding popcorn ceilings.

Right now I do the standard wetting scraping of removal of popcorn ceilings. I am now looking to eliminate some of those steps. Any recommendations of sanders for this process? I am of course open to experimentation as far as what works and what does not but thought some of you may have already done some experimenting on this subject. Any input will be very helpful to me as I already have decided to try this.



EDIT:
Warning: Popcorn texture contained asbestos until 1978. It could of been used in residential use up to 1985. If your home was built before then or around those dates please have your texture tested by a professional before attempting any kind of repairs or removal.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 10:25 PM by Sean.M »

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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2011, 06:30 PM »
I know the answer to this one!  Did a crap load of those last year.  I also use Festool!  And I am a member here.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Sean.M

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2011, 06:55 PM »
I know the answer to this one!  Did a crap load of those last year.  I also use Festool!  And I am a member here.

Peter
Peter, I am fine experimenting and finding out from trial and error on what works and what does not but just looking for suggestions on what other members may have tried or think will work. I do this X amount of times a year and turn down these jobs X amount of times a year because I am busy enough to not to want to deal with the hassles.  My take is I want to save time, prep and clean up. I think I would want the biggest sander possible with a square sander for the flats and a detailed sander around lights and what not. If I can save on all the prep and clean up I would be doing these jobs a lot more than I do.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 06:57 PM by Sean.M »

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2011, 07:36 PM »
Advice time.

Many popcorn ceilings have been painted and thus do not respond favorably to the water / mist approach.  Buy a 99 dollar Wagnor wallpaper steamer. This will get past the latex paint.  Scrape.   Then use your Festool sander, or then thin mud and spray and skin.  Sand with an ETS.  Prime and paint.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Sean.M

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2011, 07:43 PM »
I understand Peter, I normally take a garden sprayer and wet the ceiling, scrape with a 12+ blade and then repair after scraped if not getting retexured.

I am looking for a dry clean way. I will figure it out whether it is doable and if it is not I will find that out too.  [big grin]

Offline Ken Nagrod

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2011, 07:50 PM »
I believe Bosch, Makita and Porter Cable make a large horizontal disc grinder/sander that would level it down dry, but with lots of mess.  They're normally used for concrete leveling or stripping paint, depending on the models I'm referring to.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 07:52 PM by Ken Nagrod »

Offline lumbajac

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2011, 07:52 PM »
Corey - U.P. of Michigan

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2011, 07:59 PM »
OK.  If you are looking for a miracle Festool sander to deal with popcorn ceilings - they don't exist.  A sander is a planer tool and popcorn ceiling is three dimensional.  The popcorn will be sheared off by sanders that deal with the level as they were engineered to do.  Just wet and scape.  Follow up with a sander that can handle the dust.  

Peter
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 08:07 PM by Peter Halle »
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Sean.M

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2011, 08:09 PM »
Thanks guys you confirmed what I already knew.

I am just considering another option,.

Peter, not looking for a miracle I am just considering improvements to the status quo.


Offline Scott Burt

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2011, 08:16 PM »
I dont know guys. I have been messing around with the scraper attachment for my LS130. I would not rule out the possibility that this combo could get involved in what Sean is exploring. There wouldn't be much extraction about it, just popcorn extricated from the ceiling. I dont do any popcorn ceilings, but I wonder if this could work.

If not, a pot of coffee and the Fakir.

Offline Scott Burt

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2011, 08:17 PM »

Offline greenMonster

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2011, 08:29 PM »
another low-tech option

Chip Buddie Scraper

Offline Alex

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2011, 09:02 PM »
Just make sure the ceiling isn't so old that it might contain asbestos. You wouldn't want to sand that stuff.

Offline Sean.M

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2011, 09:19 PM »
Sean

This is the 130 attachment I am talking about:

http://www.festoolusa.com/products/sanders/other-accessories/scraper-491199.html
I saw that when we were visiting Festool and it might be too small for my purposes. I have a basic concept. of what I am thinking of and will update my trial and errors.
another low-tech option

Chip Buddie Scraper
I think that may be to small for what I am thinking.

Just make sure the ceiling isn't so old that it might contain asbestos. You wouldn't want to sand that stuff.
Good point. I do this type of work regularly and know that they used asbestos until around 83 in this type of texture.
I believe Bosch, Makita and Porter Cable make a large horizontal disc grinder/sander that would level it down dry, but with lots of mess.  They're normally used for concrete leveling or stripping paint, depending on the models I'm referring to.
I am trying to skip this step of taking it off and then sanding. I am actually just trying to eliminate the mess altogether.

http://dustlesstools.com/popcorn_ceiling.htm
Thanks.

If not, a pot of coffee and the Fakir.
There you go. 

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2011, 09:22 PM »
A buddy of mine and I duct-taped an elongated vacuum nozzle to a putty knife to remove a popcorn ceiling once. It worked pretty well. It didn't get all the mess but probably about 90% or more. After scraping with that, it almost looked good, kind of like a subdued Monterrey drag.


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Offline Scott Burt

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2011, 09:23 PM »

There you go. 
[/quote]

I'm not entirely joking. The Fakir is a popcorn perforator just waiting to happen.

44900-0

Offline Sean.M

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2011, 09:40 PM »

There you go. 

I'm not entirely joking. The Fakir is a popcorn perforator just waiting to happen.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]
[/quote]
Having a hard time envisioning it, I think the Planex might be a good tool but I am wanting to try what I have in my mind. I am trying to eliminate some steps by sanding it down.

Offline Scott Burt

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2011, 09:42 PM »
Any outcome where you can eliminate the wet work would be a major gain. Just like the pressure wash v. dust free sanding discussion we had at the workshop. This is one of those cases where wetter is not better.

Offline Sean.M

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2011, 09:48 PM »
Any outcome where you can eliminate the wet work would be a major gain. Just like the pressure wash v. dust free sanding discussion we had at the workshop. This is one of those cases where wetter is not better.
Exactly how I see it. When wetting and scrapping it falls all over so my goal is to eliminate both of those and over all make a clean working environment.

Offline Paul W.

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2011, 10:27 PM »
Something like a paintshaver pro for ceilings?

Instead of blades have a brush of sort.

Offline Sean.M

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2011, 10:34 PM »
Something like a paintshaver pro for ceilings?

Instead of blades have a brush of sort.
Something like that, I have a blade or grinder idea but that would require new tool development and at this stage I have some ideas I want to try with what already exists.


Offline Paul W.

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2011, 10:45 PM »
Gerbils doing OT!  [thumbs up]

Offline Sean.M

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2011, 10:52 PM »
lol just trying to improve my systems.  [wink]

Offline Paul W.

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2011, 11:13 PM »
Wonder what a planex would do?

If you sand it, do you think it will gum and roll?

Offline Sean.M

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2011, 11:32 PM »
Wonder what a planex would do?

If you sand it, do you think it will gum and roll?
I have thought about the Planex.

I don't think so most popcorn I run into has never been painted.

Offline Holzhacker

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2011, 11:10 AM »
Sometimes hard work is just hard work. I've done tons of popcorn ceilings. I stopped using water years ago. Way too messy, way too much sloppy clean-up. Easier to use fans and vacs to control dust in the room. Also scraping gently helps.
I generally scrape with a 12" mud blade or long handled ice scraper to get the majority off; then sand with an ETS; then patch as needed.
If this is vintage popcorn you need to be aware that it may contain asbestos material. Use appropriate breathing protection and confinement. Its helpful to have a guy running the vac and holding the wide nozzle near the scraper as you go along to minimize some of the dust. If it is newer popcorn probably not an issue.
If going over an old plaster or especially concrete ceiling consider mixing structolite into your DB or mud. Old plaster and concrete tend to suck the moisture out of the mud and cause adhesion problems. Adding structo will allow the compound mixture to dry properly and fully adhere.
Very rare that I will patch over old plaster without a structo/DB mix, never over concrete. A structo/DB mix also works very well if going over old canvas wallpaper.
"The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

Offline Mr Jones

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2011, 11:32 AM »
I've never seen a popcorn ceiling in the UK, but I have sanded a lot of wood chip with the Planex. There is a very low grit which is chunky enough to deal with the first layer of wood chip, it sounds like that might work on this popcorn stuff !

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2011, 11:40 AM »
Quote
Its helpful to have a guy running the vac and holding the wide nozzle near the scraper as you go along to minimize some of the dust.

That's why we taped the wide nozzle to the scraper. We used the tubes from the vac as a long handle to reach the ceiling. It worked amazingly well and was essentially a one man job.


Tom
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Offline Sean.M

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2011, 10:05 PM »
Sometimes hard work is just hard work. I've done tons of popcorn ceilings. I stopped using water years ago. Way too messy, way too much sloppy clean-up. Easier to use fans and vacs to control dust in the room. Also scraping gently helps.
I generally scrape with a 12" mud blade or long handled ice scraper to get the majority off; then sand with an ETS; then patch as needed.
If this is vintage popcorn you need to be aware that it may contain asbestos material. Use appropriate breathing protection and confinement. Its helpful to have a guy running the vac and holding the wide nozzle near the scraper as you go along to minimize some of the dust. If it is newer popcorn probably not an issue.
If going over an old plaster or especially concrete ceiling consider mixing structolite into your DB or mud. Old plaster and concrete tend to suck the moisture out of the mud and cause adhesion problems. Adding structo will allow the compound mixture to dry properly and fully adhere.
Very rare that I will patch over old plaster without a structo/DB mix, never over concrete. A structo/DB mix also works very well if going over old canvas wallpaper.

Thanks for your post.

I've never seen a popcorn ceiling in the UK, but I have sanded a lot of wood chip with the Planex. There is a very low grit which is chunky enough to deal with the first layer of wood chip, it sounds like that might work on this popcorn stuff !

I agree that they may be the right tool for the job but don't think it is an option.

Offline Mr Jones

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Re: Popcorn ceiling sanding
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2011, 04:55 AM »
I've never seen a popcorn ceiling in the UK, but I have sanded a lot of wood chip with the Planex. There is a very low grit which is chunky enough to deal with the first layer of wood chip, it sounds like that might work on this popcorn stuff !

I agree that they may be the right tool for the job but don't think it is an option.
[/quote]

It's taken me a long while to realise it's NAINA although it seems that's changing next year. I'm sure once it rolls out this forum will fill up with positive recommendations for it.