Woodsgood
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Location: NYC Member Since: Dec 2011
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« on: May 15, 2012, 05:29 PM » |
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I dont have a T 18 yet. I am trying to figure the order of priority for my next few Festool purchases.
Will I see a substantial benefit using a T 18 rather than a Dewalt 18v impact driver? The current project is framing. So I'd be driving 3" screws into 2 X material all day long. Also sub-foor decking. Thanks
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Kev
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Location: Australia Member Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 2639
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 05:57 PM » |
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You guys need the Protool range from Festool badly.
The T18 is going to drill holes very well, but it's not an impact driver. I haven't used a Dewalt 18v impact driver, but I'd have to guess its pretty good at percussion screwing.
Are you pre drilling in this application?
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Ken Nagrod
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Location: New Jersey Member Since: Jul 2010
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 06:20 PM » |
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Impact driver for what you're doing. 
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Alan m
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Location: Ireland Member Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3017
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 06:28 PM » |
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i have the dewalt impact 18volt. i use it most days . it drives 4 " screws for sport. my dewalt not impact will only bearly drive a 4 " screw as you have to have all your weight behind it. the impact you only need the bit to be in the head of the screw and it will drive it. you dont even need to be able to see the screw to drive it. you need noe pressure to use an ipact so it is great for above your head or other aqward places.
i have used and viewed the t18 at festool demos. it is a great drill but still wouldnt out perform the dewalt impact. you need pressure behind the bit to stop it slipping. it would make a great drill for drilling but not for big screws . i know they demo it driving 16" screws but how many will it drive on a charge.
even the ti15 wouldnt out perform the dewalt impact. no data but it feels a lot slower and less bang.
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now ts 55+2 1400 rails+ 1 lr32 1400 rail, domino+assortment systainer+ domiplate, ct 22 with boom arm+home made thien baffel, lr32 set, rotex 150, home made MFT,home made work center, 6 t locs for other tools, of2000 , ro 90, mft 800, trion , ls 130 wish list of 1400, MFT 3,, even more t locs for other tools
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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Alex
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Location: The Netherlands Member Since: Nov 2008
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2012, 08:05 PM » |
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Will I see a substantial benefit using a T 18 rather than a Dewalt 18v impact driver? The current project is framing. So I'd be driving 3" screws into 2 X material all day long. Also sub-foor decking. Thanks
You won't see any benefit doing this with a T18, in fact, you'll see the opposite. If you're driving such screws al day long you want an impact driver.
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Woodsgood
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Location: NYC Member Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 26
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2012, 09:19 PM » |
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Kev, no pre-drilling, just driving.
I guess I'll be buying the OF 1400 and parallel guides for my rails next.
Thank you for the responses. Why no festool impact?
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Kev
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Location: Australia Member Since: Nov 2011
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2012, 09:47 PM » |
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Kev, no pre-drilling, just driving.
I guess I'll be buying the OF 1400 and parallel guides for my rails next.
Thank you for the responses. Why no festool impact?
The Ti15 impact s great - I have one. I'm hanging out for the latest version of the Protool PDC18-4 the thing is awesome. I don't think you guys have got the Ti15 yet ... can't imagine Festool keeping the Protool drills away from the NA market much longer ... at least not the cordless ones.
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Sean Ackerman
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Location: Yorktown Heights, New York Member Since: Mar 2009
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Festool Dealer near NYC - 10,000 sq feet!
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2012, 09:58 PM » |
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Like everyone said, stick with the DeWalt for this application. Or wait for the Ti 15. I think we're due for late this year. August- Octoberish.
Recognize the two applications here. A drill makes holes in material, a driver puts hardware, accessories, fasteners into material. One benefits from super high speed and lower torque while the other is lower speed but very high torque. Think off road pick up truck vs high speed small track car (miata?).
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Urban Redneck
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Location: San Francisco CA Member Since: Feb 2012
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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2012, 11:01 PM » |
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I'm a contactor and I agree with the Dewalt suggestion. I'll even take it to the next level. Dewalt's 18volts are becoming a dinosaur. They're pushing their 20 volt line. If you don't have a Dewalt, make sure you visit their website and find the drills that have at least 420 (preferably 450) or more UWO. Believe me... You'll appreciate the extra unit watt outs if you're driving 4"ers all day. A 700 series 18 volt at Lowes has significanty less torque than the 900 series. Hence, the price difference. Gosh, I hope Protool makes its way here soon. When they do... eBay will be flooded with my Dewalt's.
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WarnerConstCo.
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Location: Auburn, In usa Member Since: Apr 2008
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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2012, 11:25 PM » |
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I still don't find much benefit to a impact driver over a good quality drill.
I have 3 or 4 impact drivers sitting gathering dust for the last few years.
I hate using them.
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Deansocial
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Location: derbyshire, uk Member Since: Mar 2010
Posts: 1743
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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2012, 06:31 AM » |
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I still don't find much benefit to a impact driver over a good quality drill.
I have 3 or 4 impact drivers sitting gathering dust for the last few years.
I hate using them.
They outlast drills when repeatedly driving large fasteners. I know this because my panasonic has driven hundreds of 8" screws where the t18 completely died after about 100, completly cooked it
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WarnerConstCo.
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Location: Auburn, In usa Member Since: Apr 2008
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2012, 08:59 AM » |
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My c-12 has ran in 1000's of long GRk RSS screws without a hitch.
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Urban Redneck
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Location: San Francisco CA Member Since: Feb 2012
Posts: 21
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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2012, 03:43 PM » |
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Uh, are we talking about dedicated impact drivers or the drill/hammer units? That's the beauty of the higher end drill/hammer Dewalts. You can quickly adjust for drilling then flip to hammer mode for smaller lags and subfloor decking. If you're talking about lagging 10"x5/8" then that's certainly a dedicated impact tool. Although, I have the Dewalt 36 volt drill/hammer model 901. Man, I challenge you to find a more powerful domestic cordless unit. Trade offs are price and weight but does that thing scream power.
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Dogwood
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Location: Vancouver, B.C. Member Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 56
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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2012, 01:41 AM » |
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Dean, Your t18 was cooked? Really I would've expected the festool drill to err on the side of beeping itself into a "time-out". That sucks. What ended up happening(Warrantied?) and what's your opinion of the line now compare to other drills?
(I'm sorry this strays a little from the topic but lets face it we're talking festool vs competitor drills and his festool stuff the bed...)
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Kev
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Location: Australia Member Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 2639
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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2012, 05:56 AM » |
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Dean, Your t18 was cooked? Really I would've expected the festool drill to err on the side of beeping itself into a "time-out". That sucks. What ended up happening(Warrantied?) and what's your opinion of the line now compare to other drills?
(I'm sorry this strays a little from the topic but lets face it we're talking festool vs competitor drills and his festool stuff the bed...)
I'm guessing he really means tapped the battery ... if it killed a T18 I think he would have made a bit of noise about it elsewhere by now. Dean ??
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Nathan Lee
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Location: U.K Member Since: Mar 2012
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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2012, 05:15 AM » |
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even the ti15 wouldnt out perform the dewalt impact. no data but it feels a lot slower and less bang. [/quote]
Not true it's got power, at work we had a race we tested the makita brussless impact, lxt makita impact, panasonic impact, hilti impact (ni-cad) the dewalt impact and the festool impact
The results were
1st Hilti 14.4v nicad
2nd Makita brushless li-ion
3rd Festool li-ion
4th Panasonic li-ion
5th dewalt nicad
6th makita li-ion
The race was just driving a 4" screw in too a 4x2
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Kev
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Location: Australia Member Since: Nov 2011
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« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2012, 05:37 AM » |
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That battery seems to last forever on the Ti15 ... using it today - didn't charge it, didn't charge it last time either
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Alan m
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Location: Ireland Member Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3017
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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2012, 05:41 AM » |
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even the ti15 wouldnt out perform the dewalt impact. no data but it feels a lot slower and less bang.
Not true it's got power, at work we had a race we tested the makita brussless impact, lxt makita impact, panasonic impact, hilti impact (ni-cad) the dewalt impact and the festool impact The results were 1st Hilti 14.4v nicad 2nd Makita brushless li-ion 3rd Festool li-ion 4th Panasonic li-ion 5th dewalt nicad 6th makita li-ion The race was just driving a 4" screw in too a 4x2 [/quote] i wasnt using any test. i was just obseving my 18 volt dewalt to the festool ti15. i am shocked at those figures.. i found the ti 15 didnt spin the screw in as far as my dewalt before the impact kicked in. they are both slow when impacting
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now ts 55+2 1400 rails+ 1 lr32 1400 rail, domino+assortment systainer+ domiplate, ct 22 with boom arm+home made thien baffel, lr32 set, rotex 150, home made MFT,home made work center, 6 t locs for other tools, of2000 , ro 90, mft 800, trion , ls 130 wish list of 1400, MFT 3,, even more t locs for other tools
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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JSands
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Location: usa Member Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 194
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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2012, 11:51 AM » |
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My c-12 has ran in 1000's of long GRk RSS screws without a hitch.
As many posters above mentioned, the difference is night / day, when it comes to driving large or hard-to-drive fasteners. The difference, as mentioned, is the amount of force you must apply to the fastener head to prevent it from stripping.... with driver, you must apply forces equal to the resistance of the fastener. With an Impact, hardly any pressure is required as the Impactors takes hundreds of small whacks at the head. Then there is the wrist issue, specially if you drive fasteners all day. A driver tries to apply opposite force to your wrist, so you must grip tight and your wrist exerts anti torque resistance continously.... an impact driver takes hundreds of tiny hits, not torquing your wrist. IMO, the Impact Driver is one of the best innovations the fastener field has experienced in a long time... Now, OTOH, if the force required to insert a fastener is minimal, such as small 1" screws into well drilled holes, this differences becomes irrelevant.... and the ratchet capability of the driver now offers more benefit to prevent stripping of the wood threads as the fastener head becomes seated. This is what makes the CXS so spectacular, its low speed torque, makes it the ultimate small fastener screw driver. I have the 18V DeWalt drives, which are amazing...they have more than ample power for 5/16" lags, up to 5" long.... that is largest fasteners I drive, and this little yellow gem eats them as an appetizer.. Can't fathom more power.... of course, larger fasteners or higher torque fasteners might benefit from added power. Does the 24v provide more torque, or just longer amp hours? In my case, I never wear out the batteries, and if I do, the one on-deck is always waiting, so I appreciate the lighter weight of smaller batteries. If you drive fasteners fasteners continuously, some obvious benefits to larger batteries....
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Woodsgood
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Location: NYC Member Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 26
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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2012, 01:52 PM » |
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JSands, nicely said.
I ended up going with the 1400 and parallel guides.
I think the driver combo for me is the T 15 Impact, for strictly driving, along with the CSX for fine work.
So I'm getting tired of striping phillips tips and screws when dealing with the not-so-perfect-vantage-point screw driving. Is there a good thread on fasteners?
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hockey_magnet
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Location: Canada Member Since: Nov 2011
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« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2012, 04:33 PM » |
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JSands, nicely said.
I ended up going with the 1400 and parallel guides.
I think the driver combo for me is the T 15 Impact, for strictly driving, along with the CSX for fine work.
So I'm getting tired of striping phillips tips and screws when dealing with the not-so-perfect-vantage-point screw driving. Is there a good thread on fasteners?
I BELIEVE the general consensus is that Torx and Robertson (square) heads are much better than Phillips. I'm partial to Roberston (Canadian ,eh?  ) Posidrive is another option. There are MANY different types of screws that are superior but some are very specialized, hard to find and even getting bits is difficult. This is an interesting article: when is a Phillips not a Phillips
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Jaybolishes
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Location: vt Member Since: Apr 2012
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« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2012, 04:52 PM » |
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Not sure the name of them, but the star shaped heads are so unbelievably strong. I always used deck teks and square head screws for a strong bit to screw connection, but those star bits seem to me to blow everything out of the water. Stripping is quite difficult no matter what type of drill you use with the star shaped screws. They seem to be pricey, but a great screw nonetheless.
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Deansocial
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Location: derbyshire, uk Member Since: Mar 2010
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« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2012, 05:39 PM » |
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sorry been on holiday. Yep it cooked the drill. it did the double beep but then never started again. Came back with new electronics motors etc. Not sure if it was my t15 or t18 as it got replaced at some point but i have broken both models. I do work my drills hard but spoke to festool to see if what i was doing was with its range of acceptable activities and they said yeah its fine.
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Alan m
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Location: Ireland Member Since: Aug 2010
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« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2012, 06:08 PM » |
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sorry been on holiday. Yep it cooked the drill. it did the double beep but then never started again. Came back with new electronics motors etc. Not sure if it was my t15 or t18 as it got replaced at some point but i have broken both models. I do work my drills hard but spoke to festool to see if what i was doing was with its range of acceptable activities and they said yeah its fine.
what do you mean dean. holidays. and you still didnt post. thats not on. should have found the nearest wifi and logged on. shame on you , seriously thow . 2 drills fried isnt good.
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now ts 55+2 1400 rails+ 1 lr32 1400 rail, domino+assortment systainer+ domiplate, ct 22 with boom arm+home made thien baffel, lr32 set, rotex 150, home made MFT,home made work center, 6 t locs for other tools, of2000 , ro 90, mft 800, trion , ls 130 wish list of 1400, MFT 3,, even more t locs for other tools
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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