Author Topic: RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?  (Read 1318 times)

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Offline Al49

  • Posts: 5
RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?
« on: March 22, 2019, 05:53 AM »
Hi all,

I have an old bay window with colonial bars that needs reglazing and painting.

It’s going to be a time consuming job (photo shows about 20% of total area), and I am willing to buy the right sander to make it easier.  I am new to Festool,and would appreciate some advice on whether the RO90 or DTS would be best and why? (or is there something else?)

I already have a CT26 and ets150/5 to go with it (both of which are excellent)
Other consideration is which sander would best compliment the ets after this job is done, but highest priority is the window (I have plenty of others not far behind this one!)

Many thanks

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Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5937
Re: RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2019, 05:58 AM »
DTS 400 is the best all-round sander for this kind of job and very usefull for many other things.

RO90 is a sander you want to have as an extra besides other sanders. It is very small and therefor only usefull for certain tasks. Sanding paper for the RO90 is about 2 to 3 times as expensive as for all other Festool sanders.

Offline PeterK

  • Posts: 999
Re: RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2019, 08:28 AM »
There are 3 sanders with the pointy nose in the Festool lineup. Have / had all 3. The RO90 was sold shortly after purchase as was heavy and awkward to use. The DTS400 I sold when I purchased the new battery version. Really I should have kept it as it works excellent and is so incredibly light and maneuverable. Nothing wrong at all with the battery version delta sander but it is heavier. It is very nice not having a power cord or even a dust hose at times though!

Offline John Stevens

  • Posts: 810
  • Ardmore, PA
Re: RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2019, 08:23 PM »
Sorry to introduce a different opinion—I agree with what PeterK said about the RO90 being heavy and awkward; and I admit I don’t have 1/10th the experience with stripping and painting that Alex has; but I sold my DT400 (corded) and kept the RO90.

It was a champ at stripping multiple layers of paint off the trim in my 1920s-era house, and it comes in handy for lots of other odd jobs.  I find the balance to be a disadvantage when smoothing furniture wood to accept a clear finish, but not when detail-sanding multile layers of paint off trim, nor when using it like a rasp on steroids to hog away wood.  I find it to be a powerful, versatile sander, which is why I wouldn’t give it up. 

FWIW, so maybe you can gauge your needs or preferences against mine, I have the early-2000s version of the R150/3.  I have the RAS 115 and am tempted to sell it because the RO90 can do what it does, just not as quickly.   In addition to the DT400 I owned and sold, I also owned and sold an original RO 150.  The only sanding niche I feel a need to fill is the RS2E, for big solid-wood surfaces like the tops and sides of cases.  Hope this helps.1

—John
What this world needs is a good retreat.
--Captain Beefheart

Offline Peter Halle

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  • Posts: 11890
Re: RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2019, 08:35 PM »
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the RO 90 has protection guards available that will assist in preventing damage to adjacent surfaces when using the round pad.

That might, or not, be a consideration for you.

Peter

Offline Goz

  • Posts: 96
Re: RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2019, 08:39 PM »
Getting paint off the windows without destroying the profiles will require something other than a sander. Check out scrapers (Bahco or similar), possibly in combination with chemical stripper (Peel-Away, Soy Gel, or Citrix Strip).

For the flats, DTS, RTS, or RO90 would work. Personally, I love my RO90. It takes some practice to get the balance right, but it's a super versatile sander.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2260
Re: RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2019, 10:26 PM »
Getting paint off the windows without destroying the profiles will require something other than a sander. Check out scrapers (Bahco or similar), possibly in combination with chemical stripper (Peel-Away, Soy Gel, or Citrix Strip).

For the flats, DTS, RTS, or RO90 would work. Personally, I love my RO90. It takes some practice to get the balance right, but it's a super versatile sander.
. ^^^^^^ This....
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline Pnw painter

  • Posts: 203
Re: RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2019, 01:34 AM »
Are you trying to take the windows to raw wood or just prep for paint?

It’s not my favorite sander, but this is the perfect application for the RO90. Being able to switch from the round to triangle heads is very useful. The Rotex mode is also helpful too. Get some 40 and 80 grit and you’re set.

I’m also a big fan of the Bahco scrapers.


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Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 344
Re: RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2019, 03:37 AM »
The Rotex 90 is not a very comfortable sander to use but it does strip paint very well and as long as you're doing smallish areas and the odd corner, it's probably the best tool for the job. It's way too aggressive for profiles though, as was already mentioned.

Going back to the original post, a DTS 400 and an ETS150 seem like a great combo. The RO90 is more specialist but would work well for a lot of the described window job.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5937
Re: RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2019, 04:11 AM »
Remember you can turn Rotex mode off. It's not too aggressive for profiles.

Problem with intricate profiles is their shape, no sander fits there. I always do them by hand, a scraper and good, strong sandpaper. But I will also use a power sander like the DTS or DX90 as soon as they fit. I would also use the RO90 when I still had it, I think it is a very nice sander, I just couldn't get around the cost of the sandpaper.

By the way, I think the window OP needs to do is very straight, nothing difficult at all, I would simply use my DTS on that.

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 344
Re: RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2019, 07:57 AM »
That was poorly phrased, I meant it's too aggressive for profiles like any sander (except the LS130) is too aggressive for profiles, in the sense that it doesn't really fit them and even using just the tip of a delta head it's too easy to ruin the workpiece.

By the way I don't really get the comment on the cost of sandpaper. The average box of 50 discs 90mm Granat goes for about 30 euros here. A box of p80 150mm Granat goes for 80 and some change. Taking into account the relative surface areas, at worst the 90mm version is 10 to 20 percent more expensive. And in applications where the 90mm pad is the right size and the 150mm one is grossly oversized, it's a lot cheaper because you use all of the disc.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 08:05 AM by Sanderxpander »

Offline Al49

  • Posts: 5
Re: RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2019, 08:16 AM »
Thanks all for the replies, I appreciate your advice.
To answer a couple of questions raised:
- I don’t need to go back to bare wood.  It will be repainted, so only need to get it clean and remove flaking / cracked paint
- there are no curved profiles, but plenty of corners.  On the muntins I will have to be careful not to remove too much material, bit they are flat and straight.  Thinking 80-120 grit would be ok, not too aggressive.
- I can see how the edge protectors on the RO90 might be useful, but not sure it would be relevant on this job, as it will all be painted afterwards
- I will check the cost of paper locally, hadn’t thought about that

I like the low weight of the DTS, but did wonder if it would not be aggressive enough for old hard paint?
I will also look at scrapers

Thanks again!

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5937
Re: RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2019, 08:40 AM »
By the way I don't really get the comment on the cost of sandpaper.

I sold my RO90 5 or 6 years ago, I see RO 90 sandpaper now costs almost half of what it cost back then. And with a little calculation is still 40% more expensive per square cm.

And back then we could still get Brilliant 2 paper which was 20-30% cheaper than Granat.

And we can get almost any paper in 10 pack, but not RO90 paper. So instead of a minimum cost of €10 and you're working, the minimum investment was €50. Need 3 grits? €150 instead of €30. Kewl. Not.

Bigger problem is that you can get good quality paper from other brands for half the Festool price, for almost any sander, except the RO90. I have never seen off-brand RO90 paper, other manufacturers won't touch it because it is a rare single use format.

While Festool asks €82 for 100 sheets of 150 mm paper, I can get the same quality paper for €45. Indasa, SIA, 3M, Colad, Klingspor.

It has been ages since I last bought Festool paper new, it's just throwing money away. Only Festool paper I buy is on the cheap through Marktplaats.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 08:43 AM by Alex »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5918
Re: RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2019, 09:52 AM »
FWIW...if you're looking at the DTS, the new guard from the DTSC, 201692, will fit the DTS.

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 344
Re: RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2019, 06:04 PM »
I don't quite follow your math, Alex, but fair enough about the different brands not carrying 90mm paper. I would say a fair summation is that the RO90 is expensive, but sometimes it's worth it :)

Offline Al49

  • Posts: 5
Re: RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2019, 07:55 AM »
Thanks everyone for your advice.

After reading many reviews, and discussing it with my local Festool dealer, I went with the RO90.
I think the DTS would have been a better compliment to my existing sander for furniture building, but I was worried it would not be aggressive enough for renovations.  I started with 80 grit to remove the paint, but quickly decided that even with Rotex mode 60 was better  [wink].

Haven’t tried delta mode yet, but so far it is working brilliantly, a joy to use.


Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 344
Re: RO90 or DTS400 for window refurb?
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2019, 08:34 AM »
Glad it's working out for you. For removing really tough old paint it's great, I was just doing the same to my outside window frame yesterday. Be aware that in Rotex mode, especially with low grits (I use 40) it can leave rather deep scratches. Festool recommends first going over with Rotex mode and then, with the same grit, going over with RO mode, before stepping up a grit.