Author Topic: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?  (Read 2286 times)

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Offline Jmacpherson

  • Posts: 102
RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« on: August 01, 2017, 12:17 PM »
I know the RTS400 is suited for narrower stock and tight spaces but with the 2mm stroke rate how does it deal with rougher timber?
I've attached 2x images.
One shows how rough the stock can be on the narrow edges and the other what its like using my ETS EC 150/5 on the narrow edges.

Would it cope with something like that starting at 60-80-120 and working my way up?

I have the Rotex 90 but I find it easier to work with on wider stock than narrower stock, just easier to balance.

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Offline Alex

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Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2017, 12:27 PM »
It's really not that great on rough stock.

Offline Jmacpherson

  • Posts: 102
Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2017, 02:05 PM »
Thanks Alex

In the range what are the alternatives?

Offline ear3

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Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2017, 03:43 PM »
You could do it with the RTS, but be prepared to be bored to tears.

If you have them, jack or jointer plane to make a smoothing pass?  Otherwise, if I were facing the same situation I would go RO90 myself.  If you have multiple pieces you could set them side by side for balancing purposes.


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Offline SRSemenza

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Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2017, 03:47 PM »
     I agree that the 400 will not be that good at that job. Actually I use the ETS150/5 with the hard pad on rough edges. BUT I do the sanding with the board edge hanging off the side of the table and hold the sander with one hand with the pad in the vertical position. I find that looking down on the edge combined with the wide pad makes it easy to see that the pad is flat. The pad width exaggerates any tilting making it easy to see and  to keep flat.

    I know many (most) recommend a small pad size for use on edges, but I have always found it more difficult to keep a small pad flat in any position.

     


     

Seth

Offline Pnw painter

  • Posts: 100
Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2017, 04:29 PM »
I'd start with the RO90 and finish with the RTS. Like anything try and if it seems like it's taking too long or not working than try something else.




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Offline Jmacpherson

  • Posts: 102
Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2017, 04:36 PM »
@ear3 Some of the boards were not the same width so I used the EHL65 to plane them down which meant almost zero sanding but I was forced into that situation. Suppose I could take off 0.5mm off either side going forward.

Both your suggestion of setting the pieces side by side and @SRSemenza method of hanging them flat off the edge are great.

I can just clamp a bunch of them together and sand them with the ETS at the same time or even the RO90 if they are in really bad shape.

Thanks guys, appreciate the advice, will report back here with my experience

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 165
Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2017, 11:35 PM »
I found my RO 90 pretty uncontrollable, almost to the point of uselessness on narrow work such as window frames & glazing bars.  Palm sanders are slow, but not as slow as say an LS 130 linear sander, another obvious ,"candidate".

At least the LS & RTS share the same format & paper size.  Rupes, the other premium sander manufacturer that makes a palm sander that use similar sized 80 x 133 papers with the same universal hole pattern.  It seems that this 2mm orbital eccentricity is the standard for palm sanders.

The "400" might be slow, but it at least will get the job done fairly efficiently, comfortably & accurately without wreaking undue damage or taking forever on narrow or delicate substrates, unlike the Rotex rotary or Duplex linear alternatives.
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Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 138
Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2017, 04:07 AM »
Strange. I love my RO90 especially on in narrow stock. I use the hard pad and sometimes fiddle a little with the speed setting...

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 165
Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2017, 04:23 AM »
Strange. I love my RO90 especially on in narrow stock. I use the hard pad and sometimes fiddle a little with the speed setting...

I don't doubt you at all.  We each have our own values & expectations.  In comparison to my (4) SXE 400 80 mm ROSs, Deltex & Bosch GDA 280 Delta however, I consider it unpredictable, crude, ill bred and downright nasty, whereas the baby Metabos & Bosch especially are the masters of finesse.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Jmacpherson

  • Posts: 102
Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2017, 05:53 AM »
I like my RO90 too, its my "swiss-army knife/get out of jail sander" but it is not a ETS EC in terms of comfort for my needs.
I can only use it in short bursts in rotex mode otherwise my wrist feels it (although my wrist has improved a lot fortunately) whereas the ETS EC can be used continuously without any issues.

The combining of pieces to make them wider should solve my problem since I don't think all the EC features exist in a smaller package.
A 125/3 isn't much smaller and 3mm vs 2mm is long way off 5mm in stroke rate.

Off topic - it might be my imagination but RO90 leaves visible scratches behind vs the RO150 even when using rotex/random orbit in all grits as one should?

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 165
Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2017, 10:54 PM »
We've gone a bit off-topic here.  One of the reasons why I believe the RO 90 leaves scratches where other, better designed sanders such as the other Rotexes don't is due the interaction of a small footprint with overly aggressive eccentricity.  As previously mentioned, the better designed, better balanced smaller SXE400 doesn't gouge.  Nor do the big Rotexes.  The heads are more easily controlled, and their diameters in relation to their weight, balance & ergonomics makes for much easier & less damaging progress.

Just like a big floor polisher, the RO150 in particular can be smoothly & easily "steered" left & right with just a degree or two of positive & negative tilt on the rear handle.  The rogue RO 90, by contrast, just wants to behave like a bucking bronco in trying to shed it's operator's grip.  The combination of poor balance & abysmal ergonomics makes for an unhappy association, & way too much time wasted in attempting to remedy the damage done by this evil little beast.

Back to the OP's query regarding the orbital palm sanders' performance.  There is one sander available that may meet your triumvirate of requirements:  faster progress, a small (80 x 133mm, just like the "400") footprint, and fine balance & control.  I had forgotten about this little beauty, as it's priced prohibitively beyond my reach despite the quantum leap in technology it appears to represent.

https://www.mirka.com/mirka-deos/

Having super-premium price & performance characteristics appears to be only part of the equation, however.  It's also tiny in comparison, super-light (by 20-50%), 50% more aggressive than the rest, and (unlike the rest) purpose-built for net, mesh & paper abrasives.  That killer combination of 3mm eccentricity, lightweight & abranet makes it a probable champ.

However, no amount of wishful thinking is ever going to make it in any way affordable.  Quality doesn't come cheap unfortunately.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 10:57 PM by aloysius »
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3872
Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2017, 08:31 PM »
Do you need it to be green? Or would something else also work?

Using a rotating disk seems like it requires skill to result in a planar surface.
Generally tool that require less skill are easier to get consistent results with.

Just about any ol' belt sander usually goes through/across long pieces fairly well.
And one can use a 180 or 220 grit belt.
There is not a requirement, or commandment, advocating the exclusive use of 24 or 36 grit belt all the time.

Then there are hand-powered planers or electric hand planers.
... and thicknessers.

Once it is planar, then "kissing it" with an RTS 400 or a 3M rubber hand-block would only take ~ 1/2-minute.

Basically get it planar, then get it smooth - Separate those two functions.

Offline Jmacpherson

  • Posts: 102
Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2017, 12:19 PM »
Do you need it to be green? Or would something else also work?

Using a rotating disk seems like it requires skill to result in a planar surface.
Generally tool that require less skill are easier to get consistent results with.

Just about any ol' belt sander usually goes through/across long pieces fairly well.
And one can use a 180 or 220 grit belt.
There is not a requirement, or commandment, advocating the exclusive use of 24 or 36 grit belt all the time.

Then there are hand-powered planers or electric hand planers.
... and thicknessers.

Once it is planar, then "kissing it" with an RTS 400 or a 3M rubber hand-block would only take ~ 1/2-minute.

Basically get it planar, then get it smooth - Separate those two functions.

Have the EHL65 which I used on many of the boards to trim down to the same width. Required virtually no sanding at all after a single pass and I was removing 1-2mm. - I'm thinking of it as straightening tool/same width tool, not cleanup tool - there is my problem.
No space for thicknesser, jointer etc. currently - one day hopefully

Belt Sanders present me with the same problems RO150 does, weight and vibrations which my right wrist doesn't enjoy.
Why I went ETS EC route.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3872
Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2017, 04:39 AM »
...

Have the EHL65 which I used on many of the boards to trim down to the same width. Required virtually no sanding at all after a single pass and I was removing 1-2mm. - I'm thinking of it as straightening tool/same width tool, not cleanup tool - there is my problem.
No space for thicknesser, jointer etc. currently - one day hopefully

Belt Sanders present me with the same problems RO150 does, weight and vibrations which my right wrist doesn't enjoy.
Why I went ETS EC route.

Can the EHL65 take off less than 1-2 mm?
If it does then it seems it would be ideal.

I agree about the weight, but the belt sander has less vibration and jumpiness than my limited RO handling, but more of just a "hold it back" pulling force.

Offline Jmacpherson

  • Posts: 102
Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2017, 03:42 PM »
Can the EHL65 take off less than 1-2 mm?
If it does then it seems it would be ideal.

I agree about the weight, but the belt sander has less vibration and jumpiness than my limited RO handling, but more of just a "hold it back" pulling force.

Starts from 0mm and has set indicator at the 0.5mm mark and smaller marks at 0.1/0.2/0.3/0.4. Has larger indicators at all full mm and half mm marks from 0 - 4 and then smaller ones throughout the range. EHL systainer is right at the bottom of the stack otherwise would snap a quick pic.


Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3872
Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2017, 01:18 AM »
Can the EHL65 take off less than 1-2 mm?
...

Starts from 0mm and has set indicator at the 0.5mm mark and smaller marks at 0.1/0.2/0.3/0.4. Has larger indicators at all full mm and half mm marks from 0 - 4 and then smaller ones throughout the range. EHL systainer is right at the bottom of the stack otherwise would snap a quick pic.

I do not understand...
Does the EHL fit the need?
Or are you still looking to use an RTS to get it is from rough to smooth as a single tool solution?


... EHL systainer is right at the bottom of the stack otherwise would snap a quick pic.

Another systainer for the RTS is not going to make the stack easier to manage  [wink]

Offline Jmacpherson

  • Posts: 102
Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2017, 04:18 AM »
@Holmz, was answering your question about its ability to take of material in smaller amounts than 1mm :)
Going to give it a bash on the current task and see how pans out.

The SYS stack gets taller, the wallet lighter and the hole deeper.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3872
Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2017, 04:22 AM »
Howzit! @Jmacpherson

Good luck with it.
I am interested to know how it goes for you.

Offline Jmacpherson

  • Posts: 102
Re: RTS400 - Is it Aggressive Enough?
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2017, 04:25 AM »
Howzit! @Jmacpherson

Good luck with it.
I am interested to know how it goes for you.

Planer worked a treat, set it to 0.1mm and did 1-2 passes across the timber.
Tried it on 6x sides in total, once or twice I misjudged the grain direction so finish is 95% smooth vs 99% smooth. - the faces are as bad as the first photo illustrates, not sure what the lumber yard used.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 04:49 AM by Jmacpherson »