Author Topic: Someone was having an off day at festool recon  (Read 5146 times)

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Offline harry_

  • Posts: 1275
Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« on: March 10, 2019, 10:41 AM »
Ordered  an OF 2200 via recon, which arrived the other day. It will go back on monday when I can get to UPS.

To be clear, I think that this is nothing other than a (careless) mistake.

That said, I do hope that festool is NOT taking tools sent in for repair and determined to be "too expensive to repair", repairing them and then sending them out as recons.

I'll let the pictures tell the story.
Disclaimer: This post is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. This is not an offer to sell securities. May be too intense for some viewers. No user-serviceable parts inside. Subject to change without notice. One size fits all (very poorly).

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Offline Festool USA

  • Festool USA Employee
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  • Posts: 8429
    • Festool USA
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2019, 10:53 AM »
Sorry to see this. I’ll reach out to you directly to get you taken care of.

(Tyler)

Offline harry_

  • Posts: 1275
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2019, 11:12 AM »
Just so everyone is clear where my head is at on this:

I called Festool service immediately and received a return shipping label promptly.

I found more humor in this than anything else. We all have off moments and there is little doubt in my mind that is all it was. An oops. nothing more. nothing less.
Disclaimer: This post is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. This is not an offer to sell securities. May be too intense for some viewers. No user-serviceable parts inside. Subject to change without notice. One size fits all (very poorly).

Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 260
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2019, 11:33 AM »
Should have been a warning "some assembly required".

I took a recon TS75 w/rail plunge a few weeks back. As far as I could inspect the items were never used.


Mike

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5726
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2019, 12:00 PM »
I bought a ETS150/3 from recon and it looked brand new when I got it.

Yeh mistakes happen, as long as they make it right which it seems like they are life is good

Offline deepcreek

  • Posts: 802
    • TimberFire Studio
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2019, 12:19 PM »
Looks like the contents may have shifted during shipping.  Perfectly normal.   ;)
Joe Adams
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

http://www.facebook.com/timberfire

Offline Don T

  • Posts: 1882
  • Phoenix, Az
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2019, 12:48 PM »
I have purchased a couple of recon items and they always look brand new.
RO150, C12, DF 500 Q, CT33, TS75, MFT3, Kapex 120, MFT3/Kapex, MFK 700, RO 90, ETS150/3, CT22, Centrotec Installers Kit, Parallel Guides & Ext, Carvex, OF1400, LR32 Set, MFS400 w/700 rails, KA UG Set, First Aid Kit, RTS 400 EQ, Vecturo OS400 Set, CT Wings, CT Drill Guide, Pro 5, CXS, C18, HL850, Vac Sys set

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2191
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2019, 01:02 PM »
Evidently they need to hire Bob's shipping dept so things don't get so rattled.  Seriously though, glad your sense of humor is intact. Doo doo occurs

Offline Peter Halle

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  • Posts: 11941
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2019, 01:51 PM »
Yes stuff happens.  And getting out on the internet can be embarrassing.

But then there is the non-embarrassing :  a company representative replying on a Sunday morning within 10 minutes of a post on a forum. 

 [thumbs up] [thumbs up] @Festool USA

Peter

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 528
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2019, 01:59 PM »
Was the Allen wrench to assemble the RTA (router to assemble) kit in there?

I suppose someone out their might be really impressed with the repair Festool did to their router, now it runs and looks brand new again.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 572
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2019, 07:02 PM »
When you actually see the amount of plastic parts used nowadays in a power tool, it’s difficult to connect it with the price tag, or is it me?

I know this is technology etc, and the designs work well most of the time, but still.

I suppose it’s design cost and tooling, that the bean counters would mention if asked to justify the cost.

Offline SilviaS7

  • Posts: 35
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2019, 07:53 PM »
They forgot to tell you that sometimes there's some assembly required, hahahah. 

Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3310
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2019, 07:59 PM »
i didnt know ikea sold festool
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 528
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2019, 09:35 PM »
When you actually see the amount of plastic parts used nowadays in a power tool, it’s difficult to connect it with the price tag, or is it me?

I know this is technology etc, and the designs work well most of the time, but still.

I suppose it’s design cost and tooling, that the bean counters would mention if asked to justify the cost.

Plastic in stuff like this isn't their because of cost savings.  It's their for good reasons, such as weight reduction, electrical isolation, etc. Plastic is not cheap. Die Cast aluminum can look nice, but it's very heavy, wouldn't like a lot of impacts they tool could see.  Plastic can save money, but it's not an automatic thing. Engineering good plastic part design takes a lot of work.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6099
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2019, 10:04 PM »
When you actually see the amount of plastic parts used nowadays in a power tool, it’s difficult to connect it with the price tag, or is it me?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news...but it’s you. [poke]  [big grin]

Think about some of the best German firearms, H&K and Glock. Both prefer some polymer parts for their handguns. Maybe 30 years ago it was a sign of cheaping out, but when dealing with modern, quality conscious manufacturers, it’s a sign of optimizing the material for the function.

Another way to look at it is that while the cost of the polymer pellets is minimal, (they’re delivered to the molding facility in box cars)  the injection molds needed to mold the parts are extremely expensive. So if the molded part costs just 30 cents, the injection mold to make it may cost $100,000 or more.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 10:49 PM by Cheese »

Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 252
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2019, 02:35 AM »
When you actually see the amount of plastic parts used nowadays in a power tool, it’s difficult to connect it with the price tag, or is it me?
Isn’t it always something?

Maybe they try to keep it light? I assume they understand you need to drag (for many) everything with you, and trying to to keep it as light as possible, save your back [emoji6].

So, I’m not so sure if the only reason is just to save money.




Offline ryanjg117

  • Posts: 153
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2019, 03:22 AM »
Are you guys still getting regular recon emails? I used to get multiple a day but it's been awhile...

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 812
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2019, 05:22 AM »
It ebbs and flows. I got a bunch of recon emails on Friday. I don't think there were any over the weekend.
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

TS55, CT26, RO150, CXS, ETS 150/3, ETS EC 150/5, MFT/3, TS75, DF500, DTS400, OF1400, CT SYS

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6099
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2019, 09:37 AM »
Festool's been hitting it hard lately.
7 different tools on Monday
3 different tools on Tuesday
7 different tools on Friday

None over the weekend I believe.

With TS 75's offered on both Monday & Friday.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3988
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2019, 09:41 AM »
harry_ said,  “Ordered  an OF 2200 via recon, which arrived the other day. It will go back on monday when I can get to UPS.”

Hope this doesn’t mean there’s a perfectly good OF 2200 sitting in a landfill...

Offline PeterK

  • Posts: 1000
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2019, 09:45 AM »
Sure looks like that is how some one sent it into Festool claiming it needed repair!
Or is that what is referred to as an “open box special”?
 [wink]

Was at a class a few years ago at US headquarters and got to watch the service techs in action. Was really impressed with that.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6099
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2019, 10:21 AM »
Hope this doesn’t mean there’s a perfectly good OF 2200 sitting in a landfill...

You're probably right Michael, it was the first thing I thought of when I saw the photos. If the bad one got sent out, where did the good one get sent to?


Offline Kevin D.

  • Posts: 952
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2019, 01:29 PM »
i didnt know ikea sold festool

LMAO!   [laughing]
Kapex, CT-SYS, SYS-Cart, Pro 5 Sander, CT36AC, TS75, MFT 1080, MF-SYS/2, PS300 EQ-Plus, Parallel Guides Set, LR32 SYS, RO 150FEQ-Plus, OF1400 EQ Plus, DOMINO 500 Q-Plus,  Domino XL, MFK 700 EQ-Set, FS-SYS/2, CT22 w/hose storage, D36HW-RS-Plus, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, FS 1080/2-LR32, FS 1400/2-LR32, Gecko, Festool Floor Mat, Festool Stein, Multi-Tool, tape measure, large and small Festool floor mats (foam rubber).

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 572
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2019, 04:32 PM »
When you actually see the amount of plastic parts used nowadays in a power tool, it’s difficult to connect it with the price tag, or is it me?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news...but it’s you. [poke]  [big grin]

Think about some of the best German firearms, H&K and Glock. Both prefer some polymer parts for their handguns. Maybe 30 years ago it was a sign of cheaping out, but when dealing with modern, quality conscious manufacturers, it’s a sign of optimizing the material for the function.

Another way to look at it is that while the cost of the polymer pellets is minimal, (they’re delivered to the molding facility in box cars)  the injection molds needed to mold the parts are extremely expensive. So if the molded part costs just 30 cents, the injection mold to make it may cost $100,000 or more.

Haha! Fair enough Cheese, I will adopt the “plastic is fantastic” train of thought in future.

I also figured out why a lot of stuff used to be made in cast iron, it’s in the event of an issue, the said tool is too heavy to pack away for return.  [doh] [thumbs up]

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 528
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2019, 08:21 PM »
When you actually see the amount of plastic parts used nowadays in a power tool, it’s difficult to connect it with the price tag, or is it me?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news...but it’s you. [poke]  [big grin]

Think about some of the best German firearms, H&K and Glock. Both prefer some polymer parts for their handguns. Maybe 30 years ago it was a sign of cheaping out, but when dealing with modern, quality conscious manufacturers, it’s a sign of optimizing the material for the function.

Another way to look at it is that while the cost of the polymer pellets is minimal, (they’re delivered to the molding facility in box cars)  the injection molds needed to mold the parts are extremely expensive. So if the molded part costs just 30 cents, the injection mold to make it may cost $100,000 or more.

Haha! Fair enough Cheese, I will adopt the “plastic is fantastic” train of thought in future.

I also figured out why a lot of stuff used to be made in cast iron, it’s in the event of an issue, the said tool is too heavy to pack away for return.  [doh] [thumbs up]

Well, for a long time the options were 1) Wood  2) Cast Iron 3) Rock.    Cast Iron has nice properties for a lot of stuff, but moving it around is no good. It's also really cheap.  And tons of junk was made in Cast Iron,  most of that junk got melted down in WWII.  Survivor bias is an issue here.  Yup the old stuff was made of metal, and it's still here.  Problem is everything was made of metal/wood, most of it was junk even new, and you now only see the stuff that didn't suck, thus is survived.  Go to any estate sale, you can find lots of old metal tools, drills, etc. No one is grabbing it as even the cheapest drill in the hardware store today is vastly better.

One other aspect beyond weight with plastic is size. You just can get the wall thicknesses down with the metal parts. You would have to machine stuff down. If you trying to go to thing, you will have a lot of scap parts, plastic, you can go much thinner with much less issue. So when you start having complex nested parts. The only way you are making them metal is a lot of machining to very expensive parts.

Don't be fooled to think metal is so much better and that's why various vendors of stuff folks here buy use it. CNC aluminum is nothing special, what it is good for is making low volume parts cheap. Tooling up for plastic stuff would cost far to much.  But trying to make those parts in high volume or mass market prices in CNC aluminum, not going to happen.

If someone wanted to pay a lot of money for tool and die creation, and setting up with an injection molding shop, someone could make plastic bench dogs really cheap that would work just as good, and if you beat them up, just toss them and use some new ones.  It's the tooling cost that just wouldn't fly.

Offline harry_

  • Posts: 1275
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2019, 09:44 PM »
harry_ said,  “Ordered  an OF 2200 via recon, which arrived the other day. It will go back on monday when I can get to UPS.”

Hope this doesn’t mean there’s a perfectly good OF 2200 sitting in a landfill...

OR...... they meant to shi this one back to its owner and he got the recon one instead.
Disclaimer: This post is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. This is not an offer to sell securities. May be too intense for some viewers. No user-serviceable parts inside. Subject to change without notice. One size fits all (very poorly).

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6099
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2019, 10:34 AM »
Tooling up for plastic stuff would cost far too much. 

If someone wanted to pay a lot of money for tool and die creation, and setting up with an injection molding shop, someone could make plastic bench dogs really cheap that would work just as good, and if you beat them up, just toss them and use some new ones.  It's the tooling cost that just wouldn't fly.

As a frame of reference, in 1979 I was working as a tool designer at 3M. The tool designer that sat across from me designed a 32 cavity mold that produced clear windows for VHS tapes.

Multiple request for quotes were sent out to local and out of state mold makers, including an internal request to the 3M tool & die shop which was housed in a building that covered 2-3 football fields. It was a big operation and they could have easily handled the mold making task.

The winning bid was granted to Caco Pacific in California to the tune of......wait for it......$250,000 for one 32 cavity mold.  In today's dollars that's the equivalent $867,000.

So while plastic resin can be inexpensive, that's only one part of the story.


Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 572
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2019, 10:55 AM »
Well, for a long time the options were 1) Wood  2) Cast Iron 3) Rock.    Cast Iron has nice properties for a lot of stuff, but moving it around is no good. It's also really cheap.  And tons of junk was made in Cast Iron,  most of that junk got melted down in WWII.  Survivor bias is an issue here.  Yup the old stuff was made of metal, and it's still here.  Problem is everything was made of metal/wood, most of it was junk even new, and you now only see the stuff that didn't suck, thus is survived.  Go to any estate sale, you can find lots of old metal tools, drills, etc. No one is grabbing it as even the cheapest drill in the hardware store today is vastly better.

One other aspect beyond weight with plastic is size. You just can get the wall thicknesses down with the metal parts. You would have to machine stuff down. If you trying to go to thing, you will have a lot of scap parts, plastic, you can go much thinner with much less issue. So when you start having complex nested parts. The only way you are making them metal is a lot of machining to very expensive parts.

Don't be fooled to think metal is so much better and that's why various vendors of stuff folks here buy use it. CNC aluminum is nothing special, what it is good for is making low volume parts cheap. Tooling up for plastic stuff would cost far to much.  But trying to make those parts in high volume or mass market prices in CNC aluminum, not going to happen.

If someone wanted to pay a lot of money for tool and die creation, and setting up with an injection molding shop, someone could make plastic bench dogs really cheap that would work just as good, and if you beat them up, just toss them and use some new ones.  It's the tooling cost that just wouldn't fly.

Hi DT, Yes deep down I know the days of heavy solid machinery are long gone, and todays technology and methods, and materials, produce some fine tools, of superb precision, and easier to move and transport.

I get a bit sad sometimes though, when I replace an old tool that’s given great service and durability, often made with lots of cast iron that had a great finish and strength. Then I find that the current day equivelant is mainly plastic, and cast alloy.
In honesty though, I know and understand that it’s performance and durability that matter with tools.

“They don’t make em like they used too” Which in some cases is just as well!  ;)

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3988
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2019, 11:55 AM »
Clever engineering can replace a lot of mass but but I know how affection can develop for a big lump of cast iron that has helped you be productive for many years.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3988
Re: Someone was having an off day at festool recon
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2019, 11:59 AM »
@Cheese   It’s hard to imagine how something so small could cost so much to produce. I guess there has to be many iterations of mold before the cooled plastic that results conforms to specs?