Author Topic: SYS A-Z drawers  (Read 10315 times)

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Offline theplanesaw

  • Posts: 13
SYS A-Z drawers
« on: January 09, 2016, 12:29 AM »
Has anyone determined what the best height(s) of a cabinet for the SYS A-Z drawers should be in order to get the most variables of sizes of systainers?  Hope this makes sense. 

I built one cabinet 1,000mm high, as I recall, which is what the instructions say should be the max.  It was for a display to show off the drawer units.  I believe the 1,000mm height is so that when one opens a drawer with a heavy tool in the systainer, that it doesn't fall forward.  But, if the cabinet is secured, then that shouldn't be a problem. 

But, are there any particular heights that seem to work best, given all the variables of which size systainers has to put in the drawer units?

Any thoughts?

Alan - planesaw
 

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Online Kev

  • Posts: 7638
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2016, 12:49 AM »
To be honest I think this is a very personal thing ... assuming you don't create an imbalance by creating something too tall and be certain to put  the heaviest things at the bottom, I think it's more about your own height and comfort.

For a person of average height )like me), a unit with a top height of 1,350mm would (in my opinion) still be very practical in a typical workshop ... this is the approximate height I'm considering when I build mine. This still allows for a Sys3 Sort to sit on top and comfortably peer down into all of the drawers.

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1619
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2016, 06:32 AM »
I'm 1.85m tall (about 6' 1") and the *bottom* of my highest drawer is just a shade over 1300mm high (about 4' 3 1/4"). With a SYS2 in the drawer, it allows me to see the contents and get things out relatively easily. Anything above that would be unusable as a drawer for me.

My cabinets are tall, don't roll around, and are fixed to the wall, so your mileage may vary depending on how you are building yours.

[EDIT: I see the photo rotation bug is back after the upgrade...]  [sad]

« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 06:35 AM by GarryMartin »

Offline theplanesaw

  • Posts: 13
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2016, 10:19 PM »
To be honest I think this is a very personal thing ... assuming you don't create an imbalance by creating something too tall and be certain to put  the heaviest things at the bottom, I think it's more about your own height and comfort.

For a person of average height )like me), a unit with a top height of 1,350mm would (in my opinion) still be very practical in a typical workshop ... this is the approximate height I'm considering when I build mine. This still allows for a Sys3 Sort to sit on top and comfortably peer down into all of the drawers.

Thanks, Garry.  In the Festool catalog (at least in US catalog) the sysports tell  you the various combinations that can fit in a given height.  Just wondering if someone had run some software program with all the variables that would say the best height (for instance, between 1000cm and 1500cm or 1750cm) would give the most options.  Probably doesn't exist and I will determine the height I want, and then build it.  Will probably put some sort of a work surface (not for hammering, but assembling or such) and see what arrangement of systainers play out.

Offline theplanesaw

  • Posts: 13
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2016, 10:21 PM »
To be honest I think this is a very personal thing ... assuming you don't create an imbalance by creating something too tall and be certain to put  the heaviest things at the bottom, I think it's more about your own height and comfort.

For a person of average height )like me), a unit with a top height of 1,350mm would (in my opinion) still be very practical in a typical workshop ... this is the approximate height I'm considering when I build mine. This still allows for a Sys3 Sort to sit on top and comfortably peer down into all of the drawers.


I agree Kev, it probably just comes down to a personal decision. 

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1619
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2016, 05:39 AM »
In the Festool catalog (at least in US catalog) the sysports tell  you the various combinations that can fit in a given height.  Just wondering if someone had run some software program with all the variables that would say the best height (for instance, between 1000cm and 1500cm or 1750cm) would give the most options.

It's the SYS 2 that generally throws all the calculations out. The below might help; it's from the SYS-AZ "manual".

https://www.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/706994_002_MonAnl_SYS-AZ_Auszug%20.pdf


Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 605
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2016, 12:16 PM »
I recently batched-out a dozen Sys-AZ cabinets for mobile use in my van. Using 2.5" polyurethane casters from Woodcraft, the total cabinet height works out to ~34.5"/875mm.

I've made several previous generations of prototype cabinets (some taller, some shorter), and thus far I'm happiest with the above dimensions. The small casters work great for moving around my concrete shop floor, as well as plywood subfloors or hardwood floors at job sites. The sides of the cabinets are 29.75" tall, which works out great with 60"x60" Baltic Birch plywood. This height allows for a great blend of mobility, while still allowing a useful load out of tools/systainers per cabinet.

For my purposes, the 34.5" height integrates well with the rest of my tools, in that it is just slightly lower than the table height of my Erika 70 saw, is the same height as my MFT/Kapex tables with my sacrificial cleats, and just a little lower than a Kapex saw setup. This means that my cabinets can serve as out feed tables, or at least they don't interfere with the work flow on my other saw stations and work tables.

I'll post up some photos when I get a chance, probably in a week or two. Good luck!
CT-26, CT-MIDI, CT-36 AC, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF1010, OF-1400 (x2), MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x2), MFT/Kapex (x3), CMS-OF, Sprinter full of Systainers

Offline theplanesaw

  • Posts: 13
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2016, 07:28 PM »
Thanks Garry.  The chart you included is simply for spacing the various size systainers, but doesn't give the variables I was looking for.  Given all the possibilities, I didn't expect to get one, but I thought I should at least ask.

Offline DB10

  • Posts: 880
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2016, 07:33 PM »
You might need to do a bit more searching on here but I'm sure I stumbled on an old thread where someone had put a formula together and it was all in a spread sheet.

Offline Ash Dash

  • Posts: 124
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2016, 08:05 PM »
I found that if you drill your holes at 16mm centers, double row of 32, that they will accommodate various systainers with little wasted space.

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 605
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2016, 09:27 PM »
This should give you some ideas. Inside cabinet height is 29.75", holes drilled at 16mm.
CT-26, CT-MIDI, CT-36 AC, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF1010, OF-1400 (x2), MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x2), MFT/Kapex (x3), CMS-OF, Sprinter full of Systainers

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1619
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2016, 03:32 AM »
You might need to do a bit more searching on here but I'm sure I stumbled on an old thread where someone had put a formula together and it was all in a spread sheet.

@sroxberg and @Wood_Junkie have had posts regarding a spreadsheet they used to calculate optimum sizes but alas the files themselves have disappeared in the same way that the photos did. @sroxberg is still active so may pop along, but @Wood_Junkie hasn't visited in a long time. They may not be optimised for 32mm though.

Online Kev

  • Posts: 7638
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2016, 07:32 AM »
This should give you some ideas. Inside cabinet height is 29.75", holes drilled at 16mm.

@Tom Gensmer

How'er the drawers with the cantilever tool box?

I think they should make 4 different drawers ... for other size systainer footprints and one for orienting the systainer end on (easy access for the cantilever toolbox).

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 605
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2016, 11:13 PM »
@Kev

Hi Kev! I was pretty dubious about the cantilever tool box, but in the context of the Sys-AZ drawers it works great!! You have full access to all of the storage areas without removing it from the drawer. Right now I am using two to store my most commonly used hand tools, and plan on picking another one up soon for cordless drill bits and accessories.
CT-26, CT-MIDI, CT-36 AC, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF1010, OF-1400 (x2), MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x2), MFT/Kapex (x3), CMS-OF, Sprinter full of Systainers

Offline sroxberg

  • Posts: 145
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2016, 09:50 PM »
I don't think that I have the photo's anymore or the spreadsheet. If folks are interested I could recreate the sheet fairly easily. If my memory serves me correctly my spreadsheet allowed you to determine the height of the sides of a Sysport based upon the thickness of the top and bottom, the actual Systainers installed, and the spacing between above/below the drawer/Systainers.

Mine was in inches and I've purchased the LR32 system since that time so I'd probably create any new one in metric using 32mm spacing.


Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3459
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2016, 10:28 PM »
This should give you some ideas. Inside cabinet height is 29.75", holes drilled at 16mm.

Nice set up.
Tim

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5167
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2016, 12:02 AM »
I'll check the height of mine tomorrow.

I need another 60 AZ's.

Tom

Offline Flatsawn

  • Posts: 194
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2016, 06:12 PM »
This should give you some ideas. Inside cabinet height is 29.75", holes drilled at 16mm.

Is it just me or did a fish eye lens become involved? Because this can't be.

Offline Horio

  • Posts: 5
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2017, 11:19 PM »
I don't think that I have the photo's anymore or the spreadsheet. If folks are interested I could recreate the sheet fairly easily. If my memory serves me correctly my spreadsheet allowed you to determine the height of the sides of a Sysport based upon the thickness of the top and bottom, the actual Systainers installed, and the spacing between above/below the drawer/Systainers.

Mine was in inches and I've purchased the LR32 system since that time so I'd probably create any new one in metric using 32mm spacing.

I'd be very interested in an updated spreadsheet based on 32mm/16mm hole spacing using the Sys-az drawers.  I'd imagine many others would find this very useful as well.  :)
TS55, OF1400, DTS400, Pro5 LTD, CT36 w/Boom Arm

Offline leftistelf

  • Posts: 53
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2017, 01:32 AM »
There is no single optimal number. A lot had to do with what you have.

If using 32mm hole spacing I'm starting with this formula to figure out what you need... assumes a hole spacing under the top and the bottom most hole is used for the first shelf, maybe Yu could do the top differently...

Number of holes needed = [# of sys1 * 5] + [# of sys2 * 7] + [# of sys 3 * 8] + [# of sys4 * 12] + [# of sys5 * 15]

Total height = number of holes * 32

Cabinet height = [total height + # of cabinets you want * 32] / # of cabinets you want

Last formula adds 32 for space below first hole, but I'm not sure if it breaks a sys in pieces.... hmmm need someone's help here to make this work. Also need to figure out to ensure cabinet height is limited to 32mm increments...

So for me:

Number of holes needed = [12 of sys1 * 5] + [11 of sys2 * 7] + [9 of sys 3 * 8] + [11 of sys4 * 12] + [2 of sys5 * 15] = 60 + 77 + 72 + 132 + 30 = 371 [dont judge me]

Total height = number of holes * 32 = 371 * 11,872

Cabinet height = [11872 + 6 * 32] / 6 = ~2010 each, but probably 2016 each to stay at 32mm increments.... and I'd build 7 to give me room for expansion  [big grin] and so I don't need to optimize it perfectly.

If I want to base it on 2400mm panels, 5 would be 6mm too few, so I would build 6 and most of one would be empty.  I just think 2400 is a bit tall for drawer systems.

Help? Suggestions to improve?


Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1619
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2017, 04:36 AM »
Don't forget to add on the minimum 8mm at the bottom and top of the cabinet too. So from the inside, the first 5mm hole is at 8mm minimum from the inside bottom of the cabinet, then every 32mm after that, with a minimum of 8mm from the last hole to the inside top of the cabinet.

See the SYS-AZ manual for the diagrams relating to spacing.

Offline Jcwoodshop

  • Posts: 13
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2017, 02:07 PM »
I agree with Kev, design the cabinet to suit your comfort and work style.
After years of keeping my systainers stacked under my MFT, my back was screaming out that I should make a cabinet to allow easier access to my Festool tools.
The cabinet I built provides the necessary storage/access for my Festool systainers and supports my MFT at a more comfortable working height (for me). The MFT work surface is now 39" off the floor, comfortable for cutting and assembly work. I settled on two storage columns made from 3/4" plywood. Each storage column is two systainers deep, and measures 19 5/8"wide x 29 1/2"high x 30"deep, out face. By locating the cabinet sides flush with the face of the MFT there is room for 6" wide drawers between them. Each column is fitted with four casters (2 1/2"h) and could be a stand alone unit, should I desire to separate the unit in the future. The unit is mobile which allows me to access all sides of the work surface and allows me to roll it back into its storage location.
The MFT is held in place by wood blocks positioned behind the MFT corner castings.
The present arrangement provides space for 14 systainers; 2-Sys 4's and 4-Sys 2's within the left column and 2-Sys 3's, 4-Sys 2's and 2-Sys 1's within the right column.
 

Offline Jcwoodshop

  • Posts: 13
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2017, 02:11 PM »
Ahh... just figured out how to add multiple pics  [big grin]

Offline es07Eric

  • Posts: 191
    • www.ericllanesphotography.com
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2017, 01:45 PM »
I went with the full final height of 1000mm.  I haven't really thought out how I'm going to stuff this thing, or whether or not the 1000mm is the most ideal for maximizing Systainer storage.  We'll find out soon enough!
KS 120 | TS 75 EQ | PS 420 EBQ | OS 400 EQ | OF 1400 EQ | MFK 700 EQ | HL 850 E | DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | RO 90 DX FEQ | ETS 150/3 EQ | ETS 125 EQ | PRO 5 LTD | PDC 18/4 | CXS | CT 26 E | CT MIDI | CT SYS | Boom Arm | MFH-1000 | WCR 1000 | MFT/3 | CMS-VL | FS 3000 | FS 1900 | FS 1400 | FS 1400 LR 32 | FS 1080 | LR 32 | SurFix |

Offline Jcwoodshop

  • Posts: 13
Re: SYS A-Z drawers
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2017, 05:05 PM »
Nice Eric .... Please post a photo when you finished.