Author Topic: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem  (Read 9044 times)

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Offline mtbev

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TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« on: May 05, 2018, 07:43 AM »
I work side by side with a subcontractor of mine who occasionally uses his TS 55 saw. We both own the same saw and know how to properly use it. He just had his armature replaced for the second time for a cost of $150 plus shipping. This time it was not under warranty.

This is what happened:  The saw began "burning up" while cutting 1.5" deep through yellow pine with a fresh blade. We were cutting at a slow pace for a total of 12 LF. We had a total of 4 cuts to make. We pulled out the makita circular saw to finish the project and it breezed the cuts.

This saw was not abused and had 2 repairs of the same nature. Festool charges a premium for their tools. I own several Festool tools. I strongly question the reliability of the festool track saw and may look to other manufactures for future tools. Has anyone else had this kind of trouble?

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Offline ear3

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2018, 07:55 AM »
That's certainly frustrating.  By burning up do you mean the cut quality or the saw itself?

Did you check the blade to see if it was clean, and what tooth count was the blade?  Especially on rip cuts in thick material the blade type and its relative state of cleanliness can make a big difference in the cut quality.

I work side by side with a subcontractor of mine who occasionally uses his TS 55 saw. We both own the same saw and know how to properly use it. He just had his armature replaced for the second time for a cost of $150 plus shipping. This time it was not under warranty.

This is what happened:  The saw began "burning up" while cutting 1.5" deep through yellow pine with a fresh blade. We were cutting at a slow pace for a total of 12 LF. We had a total of 4 cuts to make. We pulled out the makita circular saw to finish the project and it breezed the cuts.

This saw was not abused and had 2 repairs of the same nature. Festool charges a premium for their tools. I own several Festool tools. I strongly question the reliability of the festool track saw and may look to other manufactures for future tools. Has anyone else had this kind of trouble?
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2018, 08:05 AM »
We haven't seen a lot of issues on the FOG with the TS55 armature (on the Kapex is different story).  Were you using a rip blade or the fine tooth blade that comes with the saw?
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Offline mtbev

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2018, 10:08 AM »
Yes it was the motor that burnt up .It was a 48 tooth blade. I figured in such a soft wood it would be fine, especially since it died in the middle of a 12 ft rip on such a soft wood.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2018, 10:18 AM »
Yes it was the motor that burnt up .It was a 48 tooth blade. I figured in such a soft wood it would be fine, especially since it died in the middle of a 12 ft rip on such a soft wood.

Hi,

   Welcome to the forum!  [smile]

The 48 tooth Fine blade has tooth geometry for cross cuts and sheet goods.

Use a rip blade. I have found cuts in pine , especially construction lumber, can be more binding on the blade than other woods that are harder.



Seth

Offline sheperd80

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2018, 10:36 AM »
Sorry to hear about your trouble. My ts55 is just over a year old and no problems yet, but the motor certainly feels weak. It bogs down pretty easily. I dont plan to use it on hardwood much as it just doesnt feel like its built for that. I love the features and accuracy of it, but its kind of a gutless wonder. My little milwaukee cordless is atleast twice as powerful. I wish festool would drop the electronic speed control nonsense. It seems like such a pointless feature considering the saw bogs down on EVERYTHING. Ditch the over-engineered electronics and give me a motor with some power.

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Offline Cheese

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2018, 11:05 AM »
Definitely swap out the 48 tooth blade for the 12 tooth rip blade. I'd even try using the 12 tooth rip blade (500463) for the HKC. The kerf on the HKC blade is .4mm narrower which means theoretically, it should use 20% less power.

It may be the moisture content in the yellow pine is the culprit.

I am surprised however, that the temp control circuit and the current limiting circuit didn't kick in  [sad]  to prevent the damage, that's what they're for.  [mad]  [mad]

Offline glass1

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2018, 12:57 PM »
Use a rip blade or just get the Makita. Bigger huevos. Corded or cordless.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2018, 01:56 PM »
A rip blade is optimal.  That said, I'd recommend the 28 tooth blade as a general purpose blade.  I use the Freud 28 tooth blade.  You can get these for for around 30 bucks on Amazon. Freud 28 tooth blade, Amazon   
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Offline Corwin

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2018, 02:53 PM »
A rip blade is optimal.  That said, I'd recommend the 28 tooth blade as a general purpose blade.  I use the Freud 28 tooth blade.  You can get these for for around 30 bucks on Amazon. Freud 28 tooth blade, Amazon

Keep in mind that changing blades with different sized kerfs will affect the guide rail's splinter strip. The Festool blades have a 2.2mm kerf. This Freud blade has a 2.5mm kerf. Not a big difference, but it will cut into your splinter strip a little more and therefore when you reinstall a blade with the narrower kerf, your splinter strip will no longer work as well with that blade.
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline pettyconstruction

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2018, 03:26 PM »
A rip blade is optimal.  That said, I'd recommend the 28 tooth blade as a general purpose blade.  I use the Freud 28 tooth blade.  You can get these for for around 30 bucks on Amazon. Freud 28 tooth blade, Amazon

Keep in mind that changing blades with different sized kerfs will affect the guide rail's splinter strip. The Festool blades have a 2.2mm kerf. This Freud blade has a 2.5mm kerf. Not a big difference, but it will cut into your splinter strip a little more and therefore when you reinstall a blade with the narrower kerf, your splinter strip will no longer work as well with that blade.
Speaking of that, I just discovered my HKC blade has a thinner kerf.
Now I have a TS-75 a Tcs-45and a Hkc-55 all with different kerfs.[emoji15]


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Offline T. Ernsberger

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2018, 05:06 PM »
I like to think that the TS55 is made for material less than 1 inch.  Anything over a inch a ts75 should be used. Or just do what I did and buy a Mafell Mt55.  My issues with the ts55 is that it’s too underpowered.

Offline jcjc

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2018, 05:49 PM »
if either of you replaces your ts55, get the mafell. i bought a ts55req and a mafell mt55, used them both and sent the ts55 back.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2018, 07:44 PM »
if either of you replaces your ts55, get the mafell. i bought a ts55req and a mafell mt55, used them both and sent the ts55 back.

We will be getting the Bosch version of the MT55 here in the states in the fall.  It doesn't have all the features of the Mafell but it comes in at the same price of the TS55.  I'll into replacing my 12 year old TS55 then.
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2018, 07:48 PM »
A rip blade is optimal.  That said, I'd recommend the 28 tooth blade as a general purpose blade.  I use the Freud 28 tooth blade.  You can get these for for around 30 bucks on Amazon. Freud 28 tooth blade, Amazon

Keep in mind that changing blades with different sized kerfs will affect the guide rail's splinter strip. The Festool blades have a 2.2mm kerf. This Freud blade has a 2.5mm kerf. Not a big difference, but it will cut into your splinter strip a little more and therefore when you reinstall a blade with the narrower kerf, your splinter strip will no longer work as well with that blade.

Corwin, I've found that's only true in theory.  In practice the splinter guard wares down enough that isn't really a problem.  If you're the type that diligently adjusts/replaces the splinter guard then maybe.   
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Offline Lettusbee

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2018, 09:31 PM »
Anybody else notice that the HKC ships with what is basically a rip blade? 
Hmm.  They pulled the wool over my eyes with that one. 
Never again. 
I am done with Festool saws. 
Sanders? fine.  I love their sanders. 
Saws?   No more.
I have my HKC on local Craigslist, wishing I had returned it before the 30 day window expired. 
Not even gonna try the Kapex.
My 10 Year old TS55 has lived through a lot of abuse.  I'll give it credit for that.  It has always been gutless though.  But I'm genuinely afraid to try the latest TS55 saw.
I'm going with Mafell for my next saw purchase.
I'm not here to inflame anyone's emotions. 
I genuinely would like for Festool to understand where I am coming from and why I am avoiding all of their saw products for the foreseeable future. 

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 431
Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2018, 11:34 PM »
If got a trust fund buy the mafell. Otherwise buy the cordless Makita. I think it’s got more power than the ts75.

Offline Svar

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2018, 01:43 AM »
Anybody else notice that the HKC ships with what is basically a rip blade? 
Hmm.  They pulled the wool over my eyes with that one.
What do you mean they pulled the wool over your eyes? It says right there on HKC Festool page - comes with W18 saw blade.
Besides, it's a construction saw. Makes perfect sense to have a more aggressive blade on it.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 10:50 AM by Svar »

Offline Alex

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2018, 03:39 AM »
I find the motor of the TS55 very weak, I am totally not surprised to hear that the motor burned up using the 48 tooth blade with a rip cut. As long as I cut sheet goods up to an inch my TS is fine, but beyond that it stalls wayyyyy more often than I like, and as soon as I have to money I'm going to replace it with a Bosch or Mafell (hopefully Mafell).

Offline mtbev

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2018, 08:52 AM »
Thanks everyone so far for posting.

This is seems to be the summary from the comments so far:

The blade, bc it wasn't perfectly matched to the type of cut, caused the saw to burn up.

The depth of plunge should never be maximized since this saw is under powered and only designed for sheet goods.

I own a small cabinet shop and none of my tools have these restrictions. Usually the power of the saw corresponds to the depth of cut. Even though I used a crosscut blade for cutting the soft pine, it should have easily handled it. I can put any blade on any of my makita circ saws and they won't burn up after a full days abuse on a framing job.

I didn't add in my first comment that the first saw burned up on 3/4 MDF!

I believe festool should increase power on the saw and market it for "light use only", followed by a $300 reduction in price. I'm very disappointed in this weekend warrior grade saw.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2018, 11:53 AM »
Sorry to read about your friends issues.  Whereas he is getting his repaired and you also have one, here is a link to a great manual that might give extra tips that will help in the future:  https://www.festoolusa.com/service/owners-manuals#Saws  (go for the supplemental manual).

I haven't seen that product that you are showing in the images with all the stamps on it.  What is that?

Peter

Offline waho6o9

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2018, 01:16 PM »
I think using a dust extractor would help keep things cool.

IDK, I use both the 55 and 75 with dust extraction without issue. The 75 has a rip blade, Festool Panther blade, and the 55 uses
the stock blade for sheet goods  and I'm glad to report no problems.


Offline ChuckM

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2018, 02:24 PM »
Mine is a TS75 and so power has never been a concern for me. I never use any Festool machines without dust collection for both performance and health safety reasons. After all, dust extraction is a selling point Festool tries to convey.

The OP did not mention if he was using the saw with or without dust extraction which could make a difference.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2018, 02:40 PM »
After looking at the images posted in the first of this thread I would venture a guess that dust extraction in at least this particular operation was not utilized.

Peter

Offline Rip Van Winkle

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2018, 03:00 PM »
A rip blade is optimal.  That said, I'd recommend the 28 tooth blade as a general purpose blade.  I use the Freud 28 tooth blade.  You can get these for for around 30 bucks on Amazon. Freud 28 tooth blade, Amazon

Keep in mind that changing blades with different sized kerfs will affect the guide rail's splinter strip. The Festool blades have a 2.2mm kerf. This Freud blade has a 2.5mm kerf. Not a big difference, but it will cut into your splinter strip a little more and therefore when you reinstall a blade with the narrower kerf, your splinter strip will no longer work as well with that blade.

The crucial dimensions for the anti splinter strips on the track are not the kerf width of the blade, it’s the kerf width of the blade minus the thickness of the saw plate.

A 2.2mm kerfed blade, with a 1.8mm saw plate(the thickness of the sheet of steel the body of the blade was cut from) has a kerf/plate difference of .4mm. 
A 1.8mm kerfed blade, with a 1.4mm saw plate, would also have a kerf/plate difference of .4mm, so the saw blade should cut at the same area in regards to the anti splinter strip on the guide rails.

The plastic anti splinter strip that attaches to the saw would be affected, and would need to be swapped out for the narrower blade, but that is less of a hassle and cost.

Other things can come into play, such as blade deflection from a thinner blade, and manufacturing tolerences, and if a blade has been Sharpened.
Sharpening a blade, will narrow the teeth slightly, causing them to cut further away from the guide rail antisplinter strip.

Offline Svar

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2018, 03:12 PM »
The OP did not mention if he was using the saw with or without dust extraction which could make a difference.
I don't see how. It does not cool the motor and does not reduce chip load.

Offline Rip Van Winkle

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2018, 03:23 PM »
Definitely swap out the 48 tooth blade for the 12 tooth rip blade. I'd even try using the 12 tooth rip blade (500463) for the HKC. The kerf on the HKC blade is .4mm narrower which means theoretically, it should use 20% less power.

It may be the moisture content in the yellow pine is the culprit.

I am surprised however, that the temp control circuit and the current limiting circuit didn't kick in  [sad]  to prevent the damage, that's what they're for.  [mad]  [mad]

The problem with pine isn’t the “moisture” content, it’s the resin content. Even two hundred year old pine can and will gum up a blade with resin from within the “fully dried” lumber. New pine or other contruction lumber can have so much resin, that your tools may have to be taken apart and cleaned after a days use, simply to make sure there isn’t still resin gumbing up the arbor, or dust collection port, or other areas of the tool.
The resin will also gum up the blade incredibly quickly, especially for long deep cuts were the blade heats up continuously. 

Popular US saws like Milwaukee tilt loks, still have the resin on blade issue. The Milwaukees however use a 7-1/4” blade, which is closer to the diameter of the former ATF65 saws festool used to sell( 7-1/4”=185mm, Festool ATF65 used 190mm/7-1/2” blade). The Milwaukee saws also have a higher 15 amp motor, had a higher blade rotation speed, came with a thin kerf blade, and the blade was a general purpose construction blade with a lower tooth count. I haven’t checked what the specs are on the Makita saw that was used, but it’s probably somewhere between the Festool TS75 and Milwaukee, the motor is definately going have a higher amp draw.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2018, 04:53 PM »
The OP did not mention if he was using the saw with or without dust extraction which could make a difference.
I don't see how. It does not cool the motor and does not reduce chip load.

If the saw was already underperforming because of the thickness of the stock and binding of the softwood, the friction between wood and the blade was a factor. Sawdust created by the cutting was not removed quickly by any dust collection and that could also add to the problem. It was not the cooling of the motor but preventing unnecessary loading on the blade and motor that dust collection could help.

Not an advice for saws, but it is known that dust collection is important when using the DF500. As I see it, the sawdust build-up is not only harmful to my lung but also to my machines, even if the extent of harm might be small.

Offline Joe Felchlin

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2018, 05:28 PM »
When I started looking at Festool Track Saws in 2007 -
I was undecided - TS 55? TS 75?
The TS 55 was lighter and easier to handle.
The TS 75 was heavier - But... It was powerful. It was a “beast”.
Good Ole George at my local Woodcraft store said to me:
“Didn’t your daddy tell you ‘BIGGER is always better’”?  [smile]
I bought the ‘75 - And have never regretted it.

If I used a saw all day long in the trades...
I might think differently about the weight aspect.
But... As a hobbyist furniture maker - The ‘75 meets all my needs.
I’ve bought a “rip” blade - And a “fine” tooth blade...
But... It came with a 36 tooth “combo” blade - And that’s my “everyday” blade.
I seldom change it for the others. Using my 3,000mm Guide Rail -
I’ve ripped: 2-1/2” - 8’ oak, walnut, cherry, birch - 3/4” full sheets of MDF/ Particleboard, Plywood - And more.
I take it easy - And the “beast” cuts thru ‘em “like butter”.
Yea... I may buy a lighter saw at some point - Age being a possible “game changer”.
But for now - “BIGGER is still better.”  ;)



« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 05:49 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline ScotF

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Re: TS 55 Reliability/Quality Problem
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2018, 05:43 PM »
I think that the corded TS55 is weak - I noticed that in FT training cutting sheet goods. I opted for the 75 and have been happy for solid wood. I acquired a cordless TSC 55 and that has had plenty of power - so I recommend it over the corded for anyone wanting a FT saw and not having issues with power. You need to have an extra set of batteries for lots of cutting, but so far it has been a good set-up for me and processing solid wood. Something else to consider.