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Author Topic: Ultimate Oneida cyclone dust collector for Festool vacs  (Read 10032 times)
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Jaybolishes

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« on: May 26, 2012, 11:28 PM »

Are there any of you guys who have bought the black systainer  Ultimate Oneida dust collector which clips onto the festool vacs.  I have been searching a while and have found limited info on it.  What little info I found said the hose coming out of the top of the cyclone collapses because of there needing to be a rigid elbow to keep this from happening. Does the newer versions have this elbow? I see pictures on a site selling it showing pictures with and without the gray elbow, very weird.   It seems a nobrainer to buy the festool specific cyclone, but some input would be nice.  How happy are you with it?

Would the cyclone work also with the planex and ac36 while sanding drywall? I don't see why not, but hopefully someone here has first hand experience. How do you guys like the ultimate collector? Should I just buy the cheaper $89 version. Thanks

Jay
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 11:59 PM by Jaybolishes » Logged
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morts10n

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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2012, 12:28 AM »

I have the U.D.D. for my CTMidi and am totally happy with it. It came with the gray elbow. At full suction from the vac, it collapses only a tiny bit. ALL of the dust is captured and HEPA bag stays empty. It is clearly made for larger Ct vacs and has to be slightly modified to fit mini or midi, but you should be satisfied with its performance.  Guys on the jobsite ask what it is and I tell them that it makes cappuccinos and smoothies!!!!   
Good luck
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BJM9818

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« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2012, 09:40 AM »

I first bought the UDD after doing a ton of concrete work in my basement.  There were tons of dust/small chunks I needed to pick up but didn't want to use a broom and throw everything in the air.   I just hooked it to a regular shop vac and it worked great.  I have a Midi and have used it with that no problem. I now have the UDD on top of my new CT36 and in the past few months it has saved me about 3 bags so far.   At $250ish it's not cheap but I like the square footprint vs using a 5 gal bucket. 

I haven't noticed any real issues with the hose.  If you plan on keeping it in the same place a lot it's perfect.   If you intend to move it from job to job daily it might become a little bit of a pain because of its size.   Overall I think I made a great purchase.
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bwiele

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« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2012, 10:07 AM »

Does the work center attachment for the CT still work with the Dust Deputy attached?
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Richard/RMW
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« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2012, 10:11 AM »

I bought one at the same time I got the CT36, so I have never used the vacuum without it. I have never noticed the elbow collapsing.

Ditto to what morts10n stated, in 2 years of fairly heavy weekend use I still have the same bag in the CT36 and have no noticeable debris in it, I check it when emptying the UDD and it still seems empty. Likewise the HEPA filter it like-new and never had to clean it.

Probably the only downside is you can't stack Systainers on the CT. Not an issue for me, mine sits in a corner of the shop.

I think the $$ are totally worth it.  2 Cents

RMW  
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Jaybolishes

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« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2012, 10:36 AM »

Awesome, this thing sounds incredible. Almost too good to be true. $229 is cheap for these results IMO? I ordered it after the first response, can't wait.  Not many places selling it, not on amazon, not on eBay. 
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 10:38 AM by Jaybolishes » Logged
Peter Halle
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« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2012, 10:43 AM »

I have the Oneida Dust Deputy and love it.  I just bought the cheap one and since November it has paid for itself in the shop (professionsal) in saved bags.

I did Make an attachment that was quick and cheap that is in this thread:  http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/did-you-get-a-mft3-or-a-dust-deputy-for-christmas/

It is not perfect, but it has a real chance of paying for itself.

Peter

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The tools in my truck were talking the other day.  The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy.  They also were in the minority.  Their complaint:  They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in.  I guess the truth hurts.
Jaybolishes

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« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2012, 10:58 AM »

Great idea Peter! If I had of seen this before  I would never have gotten the ultimate.  The center of gravity is so low, I'd have no worries of tipping it over. Pulling it along by the hose is probably not a good idea any way.  Do you think the top of the deputy could withstand pulling it along with a planex? I'm thinking it's not a good idea.   But,  you can still utilize the top of the vac for a systainer.  Very clever!
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 11:09 AM by Jaybolishes » Logged
mikeneron

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« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2012, 02:52 AM »

Is there any reduction in suction power with the Ultimate Dust Deputy hooked up vs just using the vacuum by itself?  I have a CT22 and used to have a metal trash can with one of those Veritas lids and the suction difference was very noticeable, so now I just use the vac by itself.  I did like having something to catch all the big stuff especially when cleaning up large debris, but the loss in suction definitely was a pain.
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Peter Parfitt
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« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2012, 05:07 AM »

I have the regular Dust Deputy ($35 - I think) and then made a drop box out of 3/4" MDF. The box has a light frame screwed to the bottom which clips onto the top of my CTL26. The top of the drop box is then at the same height (90 cms) as my other benches and MFT3. I used lock mitre joints on the MDF and the whole thing took just a couple of hours to make. After taking the picture I put some side handles and some clips to secure the lid on the drop box.

Peter


* Dust Deputy 1.jpg (492.94 KB, 2448x3264 - viewed 565 times.)
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mikeneron

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« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2012, 01:36 PM »

Quote
Kit Includes:
- Industrial Static Dissipative, 9 Gallon (34L) container
- Dust Bagger, plastic bag hold-down system. No messy dumping - allows easy removal of dust in plastic bags.
- Static dissipating cyclone separator
- 6 feet of static dissipating hose with static dissipating cuffs

From posts that I have read in the past, people could never get the bags from sucking up in the cyclone.  Is this any different now?

Hey Peter, I do like your solution, but are you able to use bags inside the box for easier emptying?  I just want to be able to tie the bag off and dispose of and not have to dump the box thus creating a dust storm in the process.
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Peter Parfitt
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« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2012, 01:54 PM »

Hi Mike

When I made my drop box I knew that I might need to work out a solution that included the use of bags. The first time that I emptied the drop box I had a bit of a dust cloud and nearly implemented 'Plan B' but I waited. When I emptied the drop box the second time I opened out a plastic bag and allowed some air to go into it. I then put the top of the bag around the open end of the drop box and turned things upside down. The air in the bag stopped any suction effect and the dust quietly settled into the bag with no dust spill whatsoever.

So I have not implemented Plan B at all. I can describe Plan B if required.

Peter
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« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2012, 02:00 PM »

From posts that I have read in the past, people could never get the bags from sucking up in the cyclone.  Is this any different now?

Picked up an UDD this spring and they now have a small vacuum line that keeps the bag in the container.
Works well and I am glad that I got it.

Dave
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goforbroke442nd

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« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2012, 07:06 PM »

yes, the UDD has a plastic tube line that goes from the special joint used at the start of the festool vac to the side of the UDD box.  There is alittle valve at the UDD box where the tube connects to shut it off if you don't want to use a bag (i.e. cut off the equalization/suction).  The bag hasn't gotten sucked up the cyclone for me (note: I've only had mine for a few months).

One problem I did have was with the gray 50mm tube that came with the UDD:  it did get pulled down when connected from the vac to the top of the cyclone (was using the 2nd L joint to go from the input to the festool tube).  I found that the black end of the tube started to crack.  Called Oneida, and they shipped me a new one.  Although the 50mm tube can fit directly on the top of the cyclone, it might be better to add an adapter or get another l joint to reinforce the plastic on this tube.  I think the green festool 50mm are much stronger and probably wouldn't crack like the Oneida on did. 

I also added extra metallic tape on all joint connectors in the hopes of reducing any static buildup.  Seems to be ok.
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mikeneron

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« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2012, 03:02 PM »

I got my Ultimate Dust Deputy yesterday.  There was more assembly required than I would have thought.  You have to put a rubber gasket around the lid and it says in the manual "It is very important that there are no gaps in the gasket where the ends meet. Make sure they are butted together!"  Well the problem was that they didn't give me enough material and I had about a 1/4" gap when I was done.  I used some spray foam I had kicking around to fill the gap (see attached picture). 

You also have to put copper tape inside a couple of the hose fittings.  It came with enough to do 2 of the fittings, but if you want to use the optional 90 degree fitting for the top of the cyclone, you would have to get more tape.  I just feel that these 2 processes could have been done by Oneida as I found them to be somewhat of a hassle.

The rest of the assembly was pretty straight forward.  It involved installing the cyclone to the lid with some bolts and gasket as well as attaching the 2 rubber hold downs for the lid.  If you want to use bags inside the box, then you also have to run the little 1/4" tubing and also stuff a kind of sponge-like filter into the handle where the valve sits.

On my first run, I had just stuffed the bag inside the box.  Set the vacuum on low to start and when I set it up to high the bag got sucked up into the cyclone.  Great!  Well I took the lid off and pushed the bag down into the corners as well as made it sit flat against the side where that sponge-like filter sits (see attached picture) as that essentially is supposed to kind of hold the bag in place.  I didn't have anymore issues after I did that and once you get some debris in the bag it shouldn't be a problem anyways.

I did notice the 3 bags that were included have a square bottom.  I am hoping just to be able to use some heavy duty garbage bags in the future.  Has anyone had any issues with using bags other than the ones that came with the unit?

Still get a kick out of seeing stuff spin around in the cyclone  Big Grin


* DustDeputyforFestool004Custom.jpg (184.59 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 221 times.)

* DustDeputyforFestool016Custom.jpg (225.16 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 233 times.)
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Richard/RMW
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« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2012, 04:45 PM »

I got my Ultimate Dust Deputy yesterday.  There was more assembly required than I would have thought.  You have to put a rubber gasket around the lid and it says in the manual "It is very important that there are no gaps in the gasket where the ends meet. Make sure they are butted together!"  Well the problem was that they didn't give me enough material and I had about a 1/4" gap when I was done.  I used some spray foam I had kicking around to fill the gap (see attached picture). 

You also have to put copper tape inside a couple of the hose fittings.  It came with enough to do 2 of the fittings, but if you want to use the optional 90 degree fitting for the top of the cyclone, you would have to get more tape.  I just feel that these 2 processes could have been done by Oneida as I found them to be somewhat of a hassle.

The rest of the assembly was pretty straight forward.  It involved installing the cyclone to the lid with some bolts and gasket as well as attaching the 2 rubber hold downs for the lid.  If you want to use bags inside the box, then you also have to run the little 1/4" tubing and also stuff a kind of sponge-like filter into the handle where the valve sits.

On my first run, I had just stuffed the bag inside the box.  Set the vacuum on low to start and when I set it up to high the bag got sucked up into the cyclone.  Great!  Well I took the lid off and pushed the bag down into the corners as well as made it sit flat against the side where that sponge-like filter sits (see attached picture) as that essentially is supposed to kind of hold the bag in place.  I didn't have anymore issues after I did that and once you get some debris in the bag it shouldn't be a problem anyways.

I did notice the 3 bags that were included have a square bottom.  I am hoping just to be able to use some heavy duty garbage bags in the future.  Has anyone had any issues with using bags other than the ones that came with the unit?

Still get a kick out of seeing stuff spin around in the cyclone  Big Grin


I have been re-using one bag for over a year, I just gently remove it, place it into a regular garbage bag and empty it. With that said I would assume you could use a normal garbage bag instead.

I have to say, the UDD (with a CT36) really sucks...  Big Grin

RMW
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mikeneron

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« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2012, 04:59 PM »

Well the whole point for me is to be able to remove the lid and then tie the bag off and throw it away without creating a dust storm.  There is still going to be a bit of dust stuck to the bottom of the lid, but the cleanup there will be pretty minimal.
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morts10n

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« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2012, 09:44 PM »

One issue that I keep having:  the top cover for the cyclone came off the cyclone today for the THIRD time. I've used silicon for the last two fixes, but will try some other adhesive next time. Frustrating, but perhaps easily taken care of.
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Jaybolishes

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« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2012, 08:54 AM »

I've used this a lot thus far, and all I can say is buy this thing! No issues, just absolute enjoyment.  I've already used the three bags it came with and I'm using regular white trash bags stolen from under my kitchen sink.  It collects everything, even fine dust, and when I used it with my planex, it caught all the drywall dust too.  Man this thing is easy to replace the bags and I don't even have to bend over.  So happy with it, if you don't own it, get it, big money saver and time saver in the long run.  Setup was quick and easy for me, I am so pleased with it. 
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mikeneron

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« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2012, 01:41 PM »

Hey Jay, would you be able to find out the measurements on the bags you are using?  Should be on the front of the box.  I tried the Glad ForceFlex (white) and they were too small.
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Jaybolishes

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« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2012, 04:42 PM »

Absolutely, I'm working on an apartment remodel and will be working late to get it rentable by the 1st. I'll try to do that when I get home.
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mikeneron

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« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2012, 01:05 AM »

I found the regular garbage bags I use fit just fine.  They are 26" wide by 33" long.  I guess these would be OK for sawdust, but probably not strong enough for any heavy duty stuff.
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Kev

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« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2012, 07:51 AM »

Shoot me down in flames, but I have to say these things look UGLY. Plus "ULTIMATE" ... what an over used and misleading word when it comes to describing products. The number of times I've following the world "ultimate", expecting something truly special - only to see the very average. Sad

To me a cyclone for a workshop is something that sits "on the other site of the wall" .. for me anyway.

To each their own I suppose.

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Jaybolishes

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« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2012, 10:21 AM »

My first impression was this thing looks sweet.  People who come into my shop say, cool what is that thing.  If I had of replaced every fill up with a festool bag I'd be getting those more expensive bags more often.  It rides ontop my ct36 so I easily move it around, and I'm not hesitant to use it to suck ip anything, not just sawdust.  I love how nothing goes into my prized $700 vac also saving my hepa too.  The hose being higher off the ground also makes using my Paulk ultimate workbench more enjoyable with less hangups by the hose.  Changing bags is so much easier on the ultimate and much faster.  It's made out of the thickest most durable material I've ever seen, very high quality. My garbage bags I used are same as stated above.  I really like how much higher the festool hose comes out of the cyclone, almost making a ceiling hook not needed.  But if you do have a ceiling hook it gives you even more hose to utilize cause it's much higher off the ground.  This thing is surely the ultimate,  could not possibly want anything more from it.  So happy Smiley Rons ultimate workbench deserves it's name as well, it's revolutionized how I do things and praise him on the design, the crosscut jig is a joy to use!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 10:39 AM by Jaybolishes » Logged
mikeneron

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« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2012, 11:57 AM »

I really like how much higher the festool hose comes out of the cyclone, almost making a ceiling hook not needed.  But if you do have a ceiling hook it gives you even more hose to utilize cause it's much higher off the ground.

I actually like the look of it as well Jay.  I have a ceiling hook I use and with this setup can now make a full 8 foot rip of plywood with the hose right up out of the way.  Before, I would have the hose on the same side I was making the cut and kind of have to walk over it while I made any long cuts.

I used to have a metal garbage can with one of those Veritas lids, but it reduced the suction by quite a bit.  I still used it to pick up all sorts of stuff that I never would have if I was using just the vac.  With the Dust Deputy for Festool there is no loss in suction.  I had wanted to get one of these over a year ago but some of the comments I was seeing kind of put a hold on that.  Overall I am pretty pleased with it and would say any of the issues I was fearful of before are gone (ie. loss of suction and the plastic bag getting sucked up into the cyclone).

Just wondering if you have used one of these Kev.  I agree that words like ultimate do get overused, but this is still a good product.
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hhh

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« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2012, 01:01 PM »

==> Shoot me down in flames, but I have to say these things look UGLY

ugly... maybe, but maybe more utilitarian... yes.  some of us have cyclone central DC in our shops, and it is a bit 'cool' to have a  portable cyclone.  So the 'cool' factor is probably coming into play.  You are correct on the 'ultimate', but unfortunately business schools turn-out too many marketing types...
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Roger Savatteri

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« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2012, 06:30 PM »

I have two of them. (Ultimate Oneida cyclone dust collector )
One for the shop and one for the jobsite I'm working on.
After having used them I can't see life without them anymore.

As for the drywall dust, on the jobsite I have been drilling and cutting both sandstone and concrete dust.- Works like a charm.
Holds about 50 pounds of concrete "dust" before I need to dump it.

BTW, on both of them I have the "black" angle elbow that came with them.
I thought about the AC36 when it came out but opted for the above option, plus I have a Hepa Filer running, which the AC36 does not.

cheers,
roger
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Jaybolishes

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« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2012, 01:25 AM »

Roger I have the ac36. You may have known this, but just clarify, the ac36 can use the same hepa filter the ct36 uses.  It can do everything the ct36 does, with the extra option of a declogging mode you can set to decloge the special drywall filter more or less frequently.  When you sand drywall you are supposed to switch to a non hepa filter to keep it from clogging and losing suction, it has fewer pleats and larger micron.  But with the cyclone I just have left the hepa filter and regular dust bag in and haven't noticed any loss of suction, but I've done minimal drywall sanding since getting the onieda.  The ac36 in drywall mode actually uses an almost regular trash bag, not a fully enclosed dust bag like the ct36 uses.  When the unclogging feature engages it cuts off suction for a fraction of a second, allowing the cake on the filter to fall into the bag.  But with the onieda i dont think I'll need to use the drywall bag and drywall filter again.  If I notice a drop in suction after heavy drywall sanding I'll make sure to comment.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 01:31 AM by Jaybolishes » Logged
Roger Savatteri

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« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2012, 06:08 AM »

Roger I have the ac36. You may have known this, but just clarify, the ac36 can use the same hepa filter the ct36 uses.  It can do everything the ct36 does, with the extra option of a declogging mode you can set to decloge the special drywall filter more or less frequently.  When you sand drywall you are supposed to switch to a non hepa filter to keep it from clogging and losing suction, it has fewer pleats and larger micron.  But with the cyclone I just have left the hepa filter and regular dust bag in and haven't noticed any loss of suction, but I've done minimal drywall sanding since getting the onieda.  The ac36 in drywall mode actually uses an almost regular trash bag, not a fully enclosed dust bag like the ct36 uses.  When the unclogging feature engages it cuts off suction for a fraction of a second, allowing the cake on the filter to fall into the bag.  But with the onieda i dont think I'll need to use the drywall bag and drywall filter again.  If I notice a drop in suction after heavy drywall sanding I'll make sure to comment.


Jay,
Thank you for the clarification.
I feel enlightened, yet at the same time somewhat confused. Scared

Prior to purchasing my last ct36 I had the conversation with my area Festool rep about the Hepa feature of the AC36 while in its "active" cleaning mode.
I was told that the Hepa feature was not engaged at this time.
(which led me to use an older ct26 with Hepa and a long life bag with the Ulitmate Oneida on the jobsite and saved the ct36 for the shop)
(I got fed up with the paper bags busting, even with the minimum fill of the bag when using the Ulitmate.)

So, just to clarify......
Your using the AC36 in cleaning mode with a Hepa filter in place while using the Ultimate oneida up top?
Is there much of anything for the AC's sweepers to clean after going thru the Ultimate?

I'd be interested to know if you had a lost of suction with your AC36 sweeper turned off with the Ultimate up top.
I would think that you would not see a difference.

looking forward to your reply.
cheers,
roger
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Jaybolishes

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« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2012, 07:39 AM »

I think what the rep meant to say and should have been clear, you are not supposed to use the hepa filter when sanding drywall, nor the dust bags you normally use in your typical ct.  The ac36 didn't come with the hepa filter, just the drywall filter, so I had to buy the hepa filter separate.  But the Ac36 takes the same hepa as the ct36.  The ac with the Autoclean on makes a loud popping noise when the autoclean engages.  This loud pop cuts the suction off for a micro second and that is what pops the cake off the .1 filter. The hose jumps like it has had a sesure.  When I started my vac for the first time, I thought the thing was broke,  but that was just the autoclean coming on, so I dialed it all the way down to off.    There is a dial you can turn to turn the auto clean complete off, almost infinite intervals to set depending on how much auto cleaning you want if you're doing heavy sanding.  So with the onieda on top, I use the same .05 or whatever the normal hepa filter is, with the regular dust bag you are using in your ct.  No loss of suction at all after sanding a bunch of spots I fixed some plaster on in my apartment I'm renovating. Then I went directly back to using it for my routering and with my ts55.  The cyclone caught everything, and the suction is still the same I believe.  I too wonder what will happen if I sanded drywall all day, I bet the Oneida would catch it all.  I have to retest that theory soon.  but you could probably use the drywall filter in your regular ct36 and manualy pop the cake off if "if you had to" while sanding drywall with your cyclone.  The only difference in the filter is the micron is larger, so when drywall dust does make it all the way to the filter, you won't see as much suction loss as fast as with the hepa.
  Don't be embarrassed for being confused.  I too was confused until I got my hands on the vac and poked around for a few minutes.  It seems simple now that I've used it, but the bag system you use during drywall use is very counterintuitive. There is no top to the bag! It's just a trash bag really, but that is so the cake can fall into it. The Oneida seems to completely illiminate this caking of the filter, so no need to change your vac into a drywall vac.  This cyclone certainly is incredible.  You have to use it to find out unfortunately.  So I think people can get away with not getting the AC vac if you use an Oneida, I'd just throw in the drywall filter if you notice suction loss.  Maybe over the course of many days of sanding drywall the dust will clog the filter, if so I'll be happy I got the Ac, but right now I'm to believe a normal ct will do just as good if used with the Oneida. Hope that all made sense
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 08:13 AM by Jaybolishes » Logged
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