Author Topic: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig  (Read 17814 times)

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Offline bopperontbay

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Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« on: September 26, 2012, 05:45 PM »
Hello I have just been fitting 25  internal doors in a very posh house where the home owner is very much a clean freak the house is absolutely spotless. I borrowed a of1010 from a friend to use with the trend hinge jig as I thought the added dust collection would be just what I was looking for but then found out that FESTOOL do not make the correct size guide bush (16mm) for the hinge jig which I thought is a bit strange anyhow I ended up using an old bosch router for the job which made a mess but hay ho job done.
My question is there a way around this I was thinking about buying a small FESTOOL router but this has now put me off I also have a staircase jig and would prob have the same prob.
Is this a only centrotec bits fit the FESTOOL chuck only kinda situation I just find it weird cos FESTOOL don't make these jigs and I feel they surely must be missing out on sales from this it just does not make sense to me.

I replaced my of2000 last year  which died eventually after doing worktops for over 20 years week in week out I prob could have got it fixed but I went for a of2200 which I love now I have got used to the extra weight.  I just love the accuracy of these routers and thought the of 1010 would compliment my of2200 but now I'm having second thoughts.

Why would they not offer the guide bushes I just don't get it.

Does anyone have a work around

Thanks in advance
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 05:47 PM by bopperontbay »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Ken Nagrod

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2012, 05:51 PM »
Can't you just use the standard Porter Cable style template guide bushings in the OF 1010?  I'm using the MFK 700 right now with a 5/8" (42045) guide bushing and 1/2" mortising bit for a bunch of doors.

BTW, 5/8" is approximately 16mm.

Offline bopperontbay

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2012, 06:11 PM »
I'm not sure I do not have any experiences with the porter cable guide bushes will they fit the FESTOOL base plates

Offline DKurzweil

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2012, 06:17 PM »
There is a "standard" adapter plate that accepts other brands brass bushings.

I am sure someone else here has the part number.

Daniel

Edit:  Found the item number:  469625 1010 router
                                             493566 1400 router
                                             494627 2200 router
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 06:23 PM by DKurzweil »
Addiction includes TS75, OF1010, Domino 500, RO150, T-18 set, CSX, LR-32 set, CT48 and CTMidi

Offline Ken Nagrod

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2012, 06:22 PM »
469625

Offline bopperontbay

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2012, 06:43 PM »
I have looked for this part and can't find it in the uk I have also looked for the brass bushings but cannot find them either in the uk guess you do things differently in the USA.

Offline joiner1970

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Re: Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2012, 06:46 PM »
Not easy to get here in the UK I bet, those portercable bushes.

I'm surprised those trend jigs need a 16mm bush thought it would be 17mm which u can get for the 1010. I hate trend stuff myself I think its over priced rubbish. I prefer scoring the doors with a knife then either rout freehand or use an mdf jig. I fit lots of doors each year and we tried the long metal trend jig years ago but no one liked it .

I've just bought the new Makita little trimmer router ideal for hinges.

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Offline Ken Nagrod

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2012, 06:56 PM »
Well, if any of you guys over there want to add those guide bushings to the intercontinental transit line, let me know.  The only thing I don't like about these screw-in guide bushings is that you HAVE to make sure they're in tight.  I had them back out several times while routing and the steel ones I use damage both the router bit's carbide and the inside of the guide bushing.  Just be careful how you tighten them down so you're not putting tooth marks in the outside surface of the guide from something like a plier or making it out of round -- tricky.

Offline bopperontbay

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2012, 07:17 PM »
Think I will pass on the brass bushes don't like the sound of them.

I know what you mean about trend some stuff they just buy in and rebrand it and it's not very good  but they do make some pretty good stuff I use  aswell.  The rota tip replaceable router cutters for worktops are amazing they just go on and on and on then you flip the blade and you are good to go again.  I also like the workttop jigs and the offset scriber.

They are easily available so I normally buy trend router cutters as I can get them easily.

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2012, 07:57 PM »
I have found with the 1010 you must use the centering mandrel to be certian the bushing is located properly.


http://www.tool-home.com/products/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=Festool+centering+mandrel&x=0&y=0

Tom
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 07:59 PM by tjbnwi »

Offline Troll

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2012, 02:40 AM »
I use the Trend hinge jig with the OF1010 and the standard 17mm guide bush.  The Trend jig does requires a 16mm bush.   The simple way around this is to use a 1mm bigger 'setting spacer' when setting up the jig.   The jig comes with a 4mm spacer which you use with the relevant hinge to set-up the jig.  If you use a 5mm spacer (I use a 5mm twist drill) then that compensates for the over-sized bush.

This works perfectly and means you don't have to bolt on cumbersome adaptor plates to the OF1010.  The Trend hinge jig (the one-piece anyway) is the finest hinge jig I've ever seen or used.  And for that matter so are their worktop jigs.

Troll

Offline joiner1970

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Re: Re: Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2012, 03:00 AM »


They are easily available so I normally buy trend router cutters as I can get them easily.

I was like you years ago I only used trend cutters then I saw the light.

Try these guys http://www.wealdentool.com/

Their cutters are far superior to trend and much cheaper.

Trend used to be good years ago but not now. What I don't like with those hinge jigs is the splintering you get at each end that's why I prefer to score the hinge, you could still do that but it would be a pig to line up each time.

I still have a trend worktop jig which is good but in general I don't rate their stuff.

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Offline Mfteas up

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2012, 05:06 AM »
I spent a couple of years doing nothing but 2nd fix price work and always made my own jig out of a rip of MDF. Use a cutter with a top bearing (guided trimer) and you do away with having to work out guide bush distances, you just draw round the hinge and cut it out, the bearing follows exactly. Just spend a bit of time making an accurate jig and you're there.

If you have a funny five minutes and wreck the jig its only MDF not an expensive trend jig.

Offline Mfteas up

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2012, 05:09 AM »
Oh should have mentioned the cutter has to be the same diameter as the bearing!

Offline Troll

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2012, 07:48 AM »
I'm sure than home-made jigs are every bit as capable of cutting perfect hinge housings.  However, surely the key element in production / price-work is the speed of operation.  The Trend jig, once set-up; a few minutes process, eliminates any further measuring or marking-out and is capable of cutting all the housing on the door or the jamb in one operation.  All the hinge housing are perfectly aligned with each other.  You can fix the jig and cut the housing in a door or jamb in a minute or two (if you're not in a hurry).  And importantly on site is that you can achieve perfect results even in low-light levels as there's no free-hand work involved.  As to break-out by the router bit, if you follow standard routing use then break out can only occur on the exit, and you can eliminate this by using a sharp router bit and secondly I find a small cut in with the router on what will be the exit before cutting the housing in the normal way solves this problem.  Of course break-out applies to all routing not just Trend.

When cutting out using a single hinge jig you still have to mark-out all the housing on the door and jamb; a time consuming operation and prone to measuring error.

I've used many jigs in my time but in my experience the Trend jigs (hinge, worktop and lock) are the best available and extremely robust.  Their worktop jigs are brilliantly easy to set-up and thanks to a fully adjustable width stop have the ability to cut joints on any width of worktop not just standard widths. Obviously, everyone has their own experience and preference.

Troll

Offline Mfteas up

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2012, 08:04 AM »
I'm sure than home-made jigs are every bit as capable of cutting perfect hinge housings.  However, surely the key element in production / price-work is the speed of operation.

Correct

With a made jig there is no set up time past the making of the jig. The head margin is marked on the jig so when routing on the frame its tight to the head and when on the door you line it up with the mark secure in place and begin cutting.

We made these jigs before hinge jigs were on the market and i believe they come directly from these kinds of jigs, i'm not saying that a made jig is better than a factory made piece of kit i'm just saying its perfectly possible to do without spending out on a jig.

Offline joiner1970

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Re: Re: Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2012, 08:37 AM »
 As to break-out by the router bit, if you follow standard routing use then break out can only occur on the exit, and you can eliminate this by using a sharp router bit and secondly I find a small cut in with the router on what will be the exit before cutting the housing in the normal way solves this problem.  Of course break-out applies to all routing not just Trend.

 



Troll

It wasn't break out I was talking about , its the top and bottom of the hinge , I and everyone I've ever met with one of these type jigs has the same result , a slight tearing of the cross grain cut ( top and bottom of hinge) not the door edge.

I prefer as I say to score with a knife or if using a knocked up mdf jig and a flush cutter this seems to do the trick as well.

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Offline Troll

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2012, 08:47 AM »
Mr Mfteas up my reference was to single hinge jigs, i.e. jigs that cut out one hinge at a time and have no ability to set out the hinge positions.

As I stated home-made jigs are capable of achieving the same result, but are perhaps better suited for workshop as opposed to long-term site use.  The reason being they are generally less robust and bulkier.  Yes, you do have to buy the jig but you off-set that against the time spent making one (not the case of course if time is not an issue) and the hinge jig can be adjusted to suit any hinge size or the position (within parameters of the jig) in a matter of minutes.

Mr Joiner1970, I know what you mean but that a result of a dulling router bit and a quick rub with abrasive paper removes it without affecting the finished work in my experience.

Troll


Offline joiner1970

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Re: Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2012, 10:19 AM »
Mr Troll

Nope it was a brand new cutter.

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Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2012, 01:00 PM »
How about using a festool 17mm guide bush you would just need a thinner spacer when setting the height of the hinge and allow a mm from the scribed line easy...........

or you could use a 17mm bush and a cutter that is 1mm wider than the standard cutter [doh]
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

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Offline bopperontbay

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2012, 03:01 PM »
That would do it footstool didn't realise you could get a 13mm cutter.
Having not used the jig for a few years I have been using it all week and must say I love it there are a few problems like the slight tear ou t on the exit cut but I could just use a thin sacrificial piece on the edge of the door to avoid this.

The house I have been working at has very twisted casings and the arcgitarves are too close to the edge on some doors too use the jig 100% correctly but it marks the casing and just needs finishing with a chisel or freehand router but the heights are always spot on with the jig and it makes the job so easy not much thinking needed.

The worktop jig is excellent and if you buy the offset scriber for the jig it makes very out of square joints very easy to do you just place the jig on you mark without the bushes  and bobs your uncle.

Most of my trend cutters  were once my dads and are 10/15 years old some older  i just get them sharpend so can't really comment about the quality of new trend cutters but the rota tip replaceable cutters for the worktop jig has saved me a absolute fortune it is almost impossible to  blunt them I almost feel like I am changing the cutter for the sake of it after doing 10/15 joints they are still sharp. They are only good for chipboard worktops  thou not solid wood.

Offline bopperontbay

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2012, 03:11 PM »
The aluminium jig is only a couple of mm thick so a cutter with a bearing would not work I would have to set at depth them  tilt the router in which I don't like as it can grip the wood and wreck my jig.

Offline neth27

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2012, 03:13 PM »

Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2012, 03:30 PM »
That would do it footstool didn't realise you could get a 13mm cutter.
Having not used the jig for a few years I have been using it all week and must say I love it there are a few problems like the slight tear ou t on the exit cut but I could just use a thin sacrificial piece on the edge of the door to avoid this.

The house I have been working at has very twisted casings and the arcgitarves are too close to the edge on some doors too use the jig 100% correctly but it marks the casing and just needs finishing with a chisel or freehand router but the heights are always spot on with the jig and it makes the job so easy not much thinking needed.

The worktop jig is excellent and if you buy the offset scriber for the jig it makes very out of square joints very easy to do you just place the jig on you mark without the bushes  and bobs your uncle.

Most of my trend cutters  were once my dads and are 10/15 years old some older  i just get them sharpend so can't really comment about the quality of new trend cutters but the rota tip replaceable cutters for the worktop jig has saved me a absolute fortune it is almost impossible to  blunt them I almost feel like I am changing the cutter for the sake of it after doing 10/15 joints they are still sharp. They are only good for chipboard worktops  thou not solid wood.

cut the outside first,and  in the right direction for no tear out at all [wink]
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2012, 03:36 PM »
That would do it footstool didn't realise you could get a 13mm cutter.
Having not used the jig for a few years I have been using it all week and must say I love it there are a few problems like the slight tear ou t on the exit cut but I could just use a thin sacrificial piece on the edge of the door to avoid this.

The house I have been working at has very twisted casings and the arcgitarves are too close to the edge on some doors too use the jig 100% correctly but it marks the casing and just needs finishing with a chisel or freehand router but the heights are always spot on with the jig and it makes the job so easy not much thinking needed.

The worktop jig is excellent and if you buy the offset scriber for the jig it makes very out of square joints very easy to do you just place the jig on you mark without the bushes  and bobs your uncle.

Most of my trend cutters  were once my dads and are 10/15 years old some older  i just get them sharpend so can't really comment about the quality of new trend cutters but the rota tip replaceable cutters for the worktop jig has saved me a absolute fortune it is almost impossible to  blunt them I almost feel like I am changing the cutter for the sake of it after doing 10/15 joints they are still sharp. They are only good for chipboard worktops  thou not solid wood.

trend do a set of 3mm stops to replace the standard stops to allow you to use the jig on linings with arc's fitted  [cool]
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline Ken Nagrod

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2012, 04:00 PM »
Yes, a mortising bit with a top bearing can be used with a template to rout hinge mortises, HOWEVER, any of the top bearing mortising bits I've seen have too long of a carbide cutting length to be used with commercially made jigs.  As an example, I have both the Bosch metal hinge template jig and individual Templaco single templates.  The Bosch has a thin metal edge for a template guide to ride on and the Templaco are 3/8" thick.  That barely leaves enough surface area for a bearing to ride and in operation, something's bound to go wrong ruining the bit, the template or the hinge mortise.  If you make your own templates that are a solid 1/2" or greater, the top bearing bits should work fine.

Festool offers 17mm template guide plates for the router bases, so I believe a 14mm diameter bit would be ideal for that size template guide.  Here are two bits that are 14mm:

Freud

Festool

I think this would be similar to the standard 5/8" OD template guide mated with a 1/2" diameter cutter, both increased an almost equal, yet small amount.  At some point I'll have to get them and try out the metric combo to see if it works more than just in theory.

Also, I believe Anthony was the one who pointed this out, make a small pass across the front edge of the mortise and on the right side go in a little ways, first, to eliminate tear out.  You'd be climb cutting on the right hand side of the mortise.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 04:03 PM by Ken Nagrod »

Offline bopperontbay

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2012, 04:03 PM »
Thanks I did not know about the thinner spacers but some of the archswere fitted almost flush to the casing so they still would of worked correctly.

I was plunging in the said corner to start the cut  and still getting tear out on the odd door they are made from tulipwood thou which is pretty soft I will try some masking tape tomorrow that will prob do the job. It does not really matter on this job  because all the old hinge and other holes in the arch  all have to be filled and sanded by the guy who is hand painting them all I suppose you could just chisel the edge on the exit cut before routering.

I love this site you are all a wealth of knowledge and inspiration.

Offline bopperontbay

  • Posts: 39
Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2012, 04:08 PM »
Thanks guys I think I understand now so you mean just a very shallow cut on the exit then on the deeper cut it won't tear out Is that right.


Offline Troll

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2012, 04:45 PM »
Mr Bopperontbay

As I said in my previous posts -

 I use the Trend hinge jig with the OF1010 and the standard 17mm guide bush.  The Trend jig does requires a 16mm bush.   The simple way around this is to use a 1mm bigger 'setting spacer' when setting up the jig.   The jig comes with a 4mm spacer which you use with the relevant hinge to set-up the jig.  If you use a 5mm spacer (I use a 5mm twist drill) then that compensates for the over-sized bush.

You don't need to purchase any special size bits.  Also the Trend jig requires an extra long shank so you may not find it possible to buy other different size router bits that suit.

As to break-out by the router bit, if you follow standard routing use then break out can only occur on the exit, and you can eliminate this by using a sharp router bit and secondly I find a small cut in with the router on what will be the exit before cutting the housing in the normal way solves this problem.

I used this set-up for years with excellent results

Troll





Offline Deansocial

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2012, 02:26 AM »
the US adaptor plate then one of these http://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/product/GB_US_160/4/203/guide_bush_usa_16mm_hinge_jig_.html

John.....

Thats how i do it. Well to be honest i normally use my chisels because they are faster fora few doors

Offline Tinker

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2012, 08:18 AM »
the US adaptor plate then one of these http://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/product/GB_US_160/4/203/guide_bush_usa_16mm_hinge_jig_.html

John.....

Thats how i do it. Well to be honest i normally use my chisels because they are faster fora few doors

Any time i have ever done hinge mortices, it is for no more than a very few.  Usually to hang one or two doors.  I just do it the way i learned many moons ago when i was a teenager.  Marking guage, hammer and chisel.  That is quicker than setting up the router.

When using the router, i find more tendency for erroer than the chisel method.  But, that's me
Tinker
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Alan m

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2012, 05:57 PM »
i wonder if you could machine down the 17mm  bush
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Offline galwaydude18

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2012, 05:59 PM »
I have the full length trend hinge jig. I use my of 1010 with the pc guide bush adaptor and trend also do a 16mm oc guide bush and have no issues with that setup at all.

Offline neth27

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2012, 06:07 PM »
I use the Trend hinge jig with a OF1400  when I'm hanging a fair few fire doors (usually in schools). In peoples houses when just using 3" butts i just use a hammer and chisel..

john

Offline demographic

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2018, 02:47 PM »
I use the long Trend hinge jig if I'm fitting loads of doors or its not many generally just chisel them out.
Sometimes I do a combination and mark out with a knife chisel the top and bottom of the hinge mortise and rout it out freehand.
It all depends on what tools are furthest away or how many doors I have to do.

Offline The Wood Butcher

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2018, 02:15 PM »
What I use for the same purpose:

Leigh adaptor: Leigh adaptor at Axminster

Axminster bushing kit (includes 16mm): Axminster Metric bushing kit

Edit: Just saw this is for an antique thread dredged up from the grave, anyhoo my advice stands.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 02:20 PM by The Wood Butcher »

Offline Job and Knock

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Re: Using a FESTOOL router With trend hinge jig
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2018, 09:07 AM »
When I was using an OF1000 for this purpose I found that a standard Festool 17mm guide bush used with a 13mm straight cutter worked as well as a 16mm Trend GB and their 12mm cutter. For rounded corner hinges (which are often 10mm radius) I used a 24mm GB with a 20mm diameter cutter
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