Author Topic: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer? (Read 4084 times)

Richard/RMW · « **on:** December 20, 2018, 07:39 PM »

I'll admit it, I ordered this from Amazon and not a FOG dealer. Late night one-click got the best of me, I promise I won't do it again.

I grabbed the pump on an impulse last summer on the recon site (just before the price was dropped) but have never used it. Finally decided Santa could bring me the SE-1 clamping unit 201065 to play with over the holidays. What arrived was an old style systainer with a tool dated 2015.

When I went to see if I somehow goofed I noticed that (1) nowhere does a systainer show on any site advertising the 201065 nor is there any mention of t-loc and (2) all the stock photos of the 495294 vac-sys accessory set show a non t-loc.

My question is whether this is just really old stock or if these items are still being shipped by everyone sans t-loc? Normally I wouldn't care too much since most tools in my shop don't reside in their systainer but in this case I planned to store the clamp in one.

Thanks, now I'm going to go write on the chalkboard "I won't ever buy Festool from a non-FOG dealer again" 100 times.

RMW

ddjeske · « **Reply #1 on:** December 20, 2018, 07:43 PM »

I’m pretty sure they are all in classic Systainers. I got mine earlier this year and they were both in classics.

Peter Halle · « **Reply #2 on:** December 20, 2018, 07:47 PM »

They come in the classic ssytainers. Not the dealers fault or old stock. Search here and you can confirm.

peter

live4ever · « **Reply #3 on:** December 20, 2018, 08:23 PM »

Yep, come in a classic as stated. The SE1 ports over nicely to a T-loc IV...don’t think I even had to modify the insert.

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #4 on:** December 20, 2018, 09:02 PM »

Makes me feel better, thanks all.

Out of curiosity... WHY???

Just ask'n.

RMW

travisj · « **Reply #5 on:** December 20, 2018, 09:37 PM »

The explanation I was given was that the vac pump for the rest of the world is built into a classic Systainer

They put the clamps in the classic Systainers as well for compatibility. For whatever reason the pump for the US is different.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

neilc · « **Reply #6 on:** December 20, 2018, 09:44 PM »

I just retrofitted my Vac Sys set to a T-loc. Easy to do and I sold the old one on FOG as I recall.

For the heads, I did not want the large Systainer due to storage consideration. So here's a thread on how I store the heads in a Sys1 t-loc. Since you have a CNC, it would be easy to make the wooden pieces like I did to hold the heads.

Neil

Cheese · « **Reply #7 on:** December 20, 2018, 09:50 PM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on December 20, 2018, 09:02 PM

Out of curiosity... WHY???

Because they can...why has Festool failed to fix the Kapex ills 8 years hence... because they can...why has Festool failed to correct the imperial demarcations on their tools while those tools only adjust in metric increments...because they can.

Personally I think they need to get their little German butts spanked...

xedos · « **Reply #8 on:** December 21, 2018, 12:06 AM »

Seems like somewhere along the line I heard that it was safety rating issue (read UL).

It's quite possible I misunderstood or that the info was bogus. So don't go quoting me.

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #9 on:** December 21, 2018, 07:24 AM »

@travis thanks, that actually makes total sense to me. For anyone outside the US with a set of components it would work better if all were non t-loc. Probably not enough volume of sales to have 2 different skus.

Although @Cheese has a valid point...

Anyway thanks for the clarification, I can rest easy that its the only option. @neilc I'll track down that thread, the accessories are probably next and I won't be keeping them in the systainer. In all honesty if I use this as much as I hope it may earn a permanent place on the bench in which case the systainer will end up on the heap with all the others.

Thanks again all.

RMW

Quote from: travisj on December 20, 2018, 09:37 PM

The explanation I was given was that the vac pump for the rest of the world is built into a classic Systainer

They put the clamps in the classic Systainers as well for compatibility. For whatever reason the pump for the US is different.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DynaGlide · « **Reply #10 on:** December 21, 2018, 10:14 AM »

I think you'll find with this tool it doesn't really matter as you'll end up finding a permanent home for it.

On my to-do list is a Vac-Sys mobile cart with preferably the ability to raise/lower the top platform and possibly mount the clamping module to a t track with the option for two clamping modules having the ability to slide along the t-track as needed. The adjustable height bit is the part I haven't worked out yet. I looked at metal scissor lift tables briefly. I like the idea of having something I can wheel around and lower to hold a tall cabinet carcass and rotate the part(s) as needed using the vac-sys but raise up when I'm doing something that would be better suited higher up.

Cheese · « **Reply #11 on:** December 21, 2018, 10:34 AM »

Quote from: travisj on December 20, 2018, 09:37 PM

The explanation I was given was that the vac pump for the rest of the world is built into a classic Systainer

Ya, that's the same thing I've heard before.

And that makes a lot of sense to keep the old style vacuum chuck systainers for those parts of the world where the "systainer vacuum pump" is sold.

However, as the vacuum pump for the US was never going to be marketed inside a systainer anyways, I think a switch to T-Loc systainers for the US market would have been a better path to follow.

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #12 on:** December 21, 2018, 10:57 AM »

Found @neilc thread on storing the accessory heads and Seth also weighs in on the classic sys question.

Thanks everyone, Merry Christmas and may Santa bring you lots of t-loc goodies.

RMW

ScotF · « **Reply #13 on:** December 21, 2018, 08:23 PM »

I agree it is silly, but not a deal breaker. The new old style seem to unlatch easier than some of my other old style. I have a mix of everything so not a big deal. I do really like the Vac Sys, though...a great tool purchase!!

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #14 on:** December 21, 2018, 08:32 PM »

Gave it a test drive earlier today and WOW! Used vacuum to hold to the ply benchtop and a test piece and I couldn't move it.

This looks like a game changer. Should get time to experiment over the weekend. It's s got me thinking about how to keep it handy but not permanently on the work surface.

RMW

Gregor · « **Reply #15 on:** December 22, 2018, 03:09 AM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on December 21, 2018, 08:32 PM

It's s got me thinking about how to keep it handy but not permanently on the work surface.

https://www.festool.de/zubehoer/494977---vac-sys-ad-mft-3

Cheese · « **Reply #16 on:** December 22, 2018, 10:47 AM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on December 21, 2018, 08:32 PM

It's s got me thinking about how to keep it handy but not permanently on the work surface.

Here are a couple of previous threads that may be of interest.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/vac-sys-on-mft-3/msg504481/#msg504481

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/sys-vac-question/60/

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #17 on:** December 22, 2018, 11:48 AM »

Thanks @Cheese & @Gregor lots of good info on those threads.

My current thought is I want to avoid screwing the clamp base to anything to make it easier to grab and position it anywhere then use vacuum to hold the base while in use. I was poised to drill out the worktop with a 20mm/96mm hole pattern (new Parf MkII arrived last week) until I saw how well this thing holds on plywood, now I'm questioning whether I want all those holes in the entire top.

I am thinking of a bracket hanging from the side of the cart to store the clamp in vertically, but instead of screwing the clamp to the bracket just trapping it against plywood it can suck onto in use. The clamp can sit in the bracket loosely until I need it, then I either move it to the top or just turn on the pump and either way vacuum would hold it while in use.

One thing I plan to do immediately is add a QD into each hose, 10 minutes of playing with it convinced me that the hoses will drive me nuts otherwise. Probably make up some extra hoses while I'm at it, QD @ each end like air hose.

I'll report back once I start making progress, but this really looks like a game-changer in my little shop.

RMW

Cheese · « **Reply #18 on:** December 22, 2018, 12:18 PM »

Hey Richard, this was my solution, it allows me to have holes in the work bench surface for clamping while still allowing me to place the VAC-SYS wherever I please.

An 18 ga stainless plate with 2 each 20mm aluminum dogs attached with stainless BHCS (button head cap screws). The stainless plate is flexible enough that when the vacuum is applied, it bends slightly which then wedges the aluminum dogs securely in the dog holes without damaging them.

This allows me to place the VAC-SYS parallel to the front of the bench or perpendicular to the front of the bench and anywhere within the field.

I made 2 plates so I can use both the SE 1 & SE 2.

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #19 on:** December 23, 2018, 12:31 AM »

@Cheese Nice! I haven't looked at the clamp bottom, appears that there is clearance for the BHSCS underneath. I like this approach.

I'm probably destined to add the SE-2 to the fleet, doesn't seem to be a choice now.

Spent tonight finishing up install of French cleat cubbies for some cheap HF parts bins to empty out several cabinets worth of small hardware fasteners etc. and clear out some floor space. Part of the unending dance of cramming more stuff into the small space. I'm tettering on buying a HF tool cart to replace the last 2 cabinets now. Their metal rolling tool boxes are surprising high quality. Everything on wheels is the battle cry.

Next up is finishing the main workspace including this. I'll post some progress photos next week. Adding the mig and welding table created some challenges.

RMW

Cheese · « **Reply #20 on:** December 23, 2018, 01:09 AM »

Well Richard, that space thing affects us all. It’s a constant struggle. The older I become, the less room I have...and the less room I have, the older and crankier I become.

I’ve followed your French cleat program, I embrace it, applaud it and am going to implement it for some of my storage solutions...as soon as I can finish installing this blasted Honeywell dehumidifier into the HVAC system.

tallgrass · « **Reply #21 on:** December 23, 2018, 02:42 AM »

I would have that using the classic systainer would be a matter of robustness. I find the classics stronger. I put mine in a classic and I have the choice of both. the classics are more rigid, which could be a benefit in an application such as this, vibration, heavy load, no need for frequent and convenient access.

Gregor · « **Reply #22 on:** December 23, 2018, 04:38 AM »

@Cheese I like your creative use of pressure differentials to bend matter to your will

Regarding your space problem I can comfort you with the knowledge of you not being alone:

Quote from: tallgrass on December 23, 2018, 02:42 AM

I would have that using the classic systainer would be a matter of robustness. I find the classics stronger. I put mine in a classic and I have the choice of both. the classics are more rigid, which could be a benefit in an application such as this, vibration, heavy load, no need for frequent and convenient access.

While the classic systainers might be stronger, my fingernails hate the connector latches with a passion that would be filtered by the forum should I try to express it.

Cheese · « **Reply #23 on:** December 23, 2018, 10:00 AM »

Quote from: Gregor on December 23, 2018, 04:38 AM

@Cheese I like your creative use of pressure differentials to bend matter to your will

Regarding your space problem I can comfort you with the knowledge of you not being alone:

Hey @Gregor that's hilarious...it really hits home because I also have rental space to store more of my STUFF.

Originally I was going to use some 1/4" thick aluminum plate for the base until I accidentally placed the SE 1 on some thin sheet metal...that's when I had the A HA moment.

Cheese · « **Reply #24 on:** December 23, 2018, 11:32 AM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on December 23, 2018, 12:31 AM

@Cheese Nice! I haven't looked at the clamp bottom, appears that there is clearance for the BHSCS underneath. I like this approach.

Hey Richard @RMW , here's a shot of the underside of the SE 1 unit. Lots of room there. That prompted me to investigate & start this thread.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/vac-sys-vacuum-decay-times/msg458918/#msg458918

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #25 on:** December 23, 2018, 12:25 PM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on December 23, 2018, 12:31 AM

@Cheese Nice! I haven't looked at the clamp bottom, appears that there is clearance for the BHSCS underneath. I like this approach.

I'm probably destined to add the SE-2 to the fleet, doesn't seem to be a choice now.

Spent tonight finishing up install of French cleat cubbies for some cheap HF parts bins to empty out several cabinets worth of small hardware fasteners etc. and clear out some floor space. Part of the unending dance of cramming more stuff into the small space. I'm tettering on buying a HF tool cart to replace the last 2 cabinets now. Their metal rolling tool boxes are surprising high quality. Everything on wheels is the battle cry.

Next up is finishing the main workspace including this. I'll post some progress photos next week. Adding the mig and welding table created some challenges.

RMW

I bought one. It is a pretty good value but I actually wish it was not 22” deep. To fully open a drawer you have to back pretty far away from the wall. I’m used to the very cheap light weight tool chests bought from K-Mart 30+ years ago that only pull out half as far (and are half as deep to start with). With just a wrist swing the cheap drawer opens enough to see tools at the back. To see the back of the drawer on the new cabinet takes a full arm swing. Or grab the pull and walk backwards.

First world problems.

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #26 on:** December 23, 2018, 04:57 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on December 23, 2018, 11:32 AM

Quote from: Richard/RMW on December 23, 2018, 12:31 AM
@Cheese Nice! I haven't looked at the clamp bottom, appears that there is clearance for the BHSCS underneath. I like this approach.

Hey Richard @RMW , here's a shot of the underside of the SE 1 unit. Lots of room there. That prompted me to investigate & start this thread.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/vac-sys-vacuum-decay-times/msg458918/#msg458918

(Attachment Link)

Wow. Never occurred to me that using the vacuum to hold the clamp down has side benefits. My unreasoned assumption was the opposite, that it would somehow "use up" vacuum and negatively impact the actual clamping pressure. Darned physics stuff tripped me up again.

Thanks @Cheese

RMW

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #27 on:** December 23, 2018, 05:01 PM »

PS regarding adding quick disconnects to the clamping units, I assume that the internal threads are going to be metric? Anyone have any actual knowledge on this?

I'd like to add male nipples to the clamp and the female QD to the hoses. I think...

RMW

rst · « **Reply #28 on:** December 23, 2018, 05:21 PM »

I added disconnects to both my vac units it make storing them more manageable. I bought 8mm push/pull fittings and tube from automationdirect.com. I originally started buying from them for the use with the two Virutex clamping heads that I bought a year before Festool decided to make theirs AINA...I hate "murphy" with an endless passion.
I used 3/8" polycarbonate for my vac bases.

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #29 on:** December 23, 2018, 06:00 PM »

Quote from: rst on December 23, 2018, 05:21 PM

I added disconnects to both my vac units it make storing them more manageable. I bought 8mm push/pull fittings and tube from automationdirect.com. I originally started buying from them for the use with the two Virutex clamping heads that I bought a year before Festool decided to make theirs AINA...I hate "murphy" with an endless passion.
I used 3/8" polycarbonate for my vac bases. (Attachment Link)

@rst did you replace the barb that's threaded into the clamping unit of just lop off the hose and connect to it? All the PTC fittings I've seen have imperial pipe threads.

RMW

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #30 on:** December 23, 2018, 06:19 PM »

So after a little goggling it appears there are no metric pipe threads rather G/R British Standard Pipe threads? G being straight and R being tapered.

Looks like Amazon has adapters to npt for those of us trapped in imperial measurement land.

RMW

rst · « **Reply #31 on:** December 23, 2018, 06:25 PM »

I just replaced the original fittings with metric push/pull. I love the units but do not leave them on my bench...too much clutter, so I made all the hoses removable. I did have trouble reconnecting everything as I often go for a month or so before connecting both units together. I marked the connections to make connecting everything more efficient. I actually have to setup both units next week to rout and polish six polycarbonate refrigeration baffles for a customer. Pieces are 6" x 72" so the narrow heads are going to be perfect for this process.

EquatorTwo · « **Reply #32 on:** December 23, 2018, 08:12 PM »

Would you add a picture of your fittings in use? Think I'll follow your lead and reduce my hose clutter around the workbench. Thanks.

neilc · « **Reply #33 on:** December 23, 2018, 09:27 PM »

Richard - At their roadshows, I noticed that Festool made MFT side-attached pieces of plywood that are wrapped with wood 'curbs' to 'capture' the base of the Vac-Sys in a vertical position and then suck it to the plywood when it's turned on. Quick easy way to store and use the unit but also gives you quick removal to place it on a bench top.

Might want to investigate something like that to fit your need...

Here's a quick drawing from memory. The base essentially is screwed to the side of the MFT and the VacSys just drops in it captured by the ledges.

It was a really slick way to adapt it.

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #34 on:** December 23, 2018, 09:56 PM »

Quote from: neilc on December 23, 2018, 09:27 PM

Richard - At their roadshows, I noticed that Festool made MFT side-attached pieces of plywood that are wrapped with wood 'curbs' to 'capture' the base of the Vac-Sys in a vertical position and then suck it to the plywood when it's turned on. Quick easy way to store and use the unit but also gives you quick removal to place it on a bench top.

Might want to investigate something like that to fit your need...

Here's a quick drawing from memory. The base essentially is screwed to the side of the MFT and the VacSys just drops in it captured by the ledges.

It was a really slick way to adapt it.

(Attachment Link)

Thanks @neilc that is exactly what I was considering.

Of course, I'll need to complicate it a bit, overengineer it, mix in several materials and design to precision tolerances that'll require many hours of trial and error...

RMW

Cheese · « **Reply #35 on:** December 23, 2018, 10:36 PM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on December 23, 2018, 09:56 PM

Of course, I'll need to complicate it a bit, overengineer it, mix in several materials and design to precision tolerances that'll require many hours of trial and error...

So...then you’re a perfect fit within the puzzle. You’re just another engineer. Just quietly recite the engineers mantra...anything worth doing is worth over doing.

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #36 on:** December 24, 2018, 07:28 AM »

Quote from: Cheese on December 23, 2018, 10:36 PM

Quote from: Richard/RMW on December 23, 2018, 09:56 PM
Of course, I'll need to complicate it a bit, overengineer it, mix in several materials and design to precision tolerances that'll require many hours of trial and error...

So...then you’re a perfect fit within the puzzle. You’re just another engineer. Just quietly recite the engineers mantra...anything worth doing is worth over doing.

Just a wannabe untrained enginerd... As Grandpa's actions taught, "if one nail is good 3 must be better..." and "Why the heck does anyone leave well enough alone?".

Kindred spirits.

RMW

Cheese · « **Reply #37 on:** December 24, 2018, 09:37 AM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on December 23, 2018, 06:19 PM

So after a little goggling it appears there are no metric pipe threads rather G/R British Standard Pipe threads? G being straight and R being tapered.

Hey Richard, here's some more info on the connectors. Specifically reply #26.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/vacuum-pump-for-vac-sys/msg457853/#msg457853

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #38 on:** February 10, 2019, 10:26 AM »

Finally got to installing the QD, it really helps with hose management due to the stiffness of those hoses. Couplers came from McMaster w/ 3/8" barbs.

Now the pump-to-head hose sits coiled on top of the pump and the foot pedal-to-head hose is just hanging off the end of the SYS/MFT cart with the pedal itself nestled out of way underneath next to one of the casters. I can grab the head unit, click-click and I'm in business.

Great tool but the fixed hoses are awkward in a small work area.

FWIW I'd like to make up a couple extra pump-to-head hoses (QD @ each end) but I'd like them to be more flexible. Any opinions on the best type of hose to use? I'd prefer to not use the push-to-connect tube since it's so darn inflexible. I'd like something similar to a good air hose 3/8"-ish.

Is hose rigidity necessary to prevent them from collapsing with the vacuum?

Also, any idea what the ID is of the Festool hose? I had a bear of a time getting 3/8" barbs into it, but 1/4" seemed too small. 8mm perhaps?

Thanks,

RMW

DynaGlide · « **Reply #39 on:** February 10, 2019, 12:58 PM »

I'm working on a dedicated cart for the vac sys to combat any setup and storage issues. Should be nearly finished this week.

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #40 on:** February 10, 2019, 01:00 PM »

Quote from: DynaGlide on February 10, 2019, 12:58 PM

I'm working on a dedicated cart for the vac sys to combat any setup and storage issues. Should be nearly finished this week.

I'll be very interested in seeing your design. Thanks.

RMW

DynaGlide · « **Reply #41 on:** February 10, 2019, 02:29 PM »

Quote from: Richard/RMW on February 10, 2019, 01:00 PM

Quote from: DynaGlide on February 10, 2019, 12:58 PM
I'm working on a dedicated cart for the vac sys to combat any setup and storage issues. Should be nearly finished this week.

I'll be very interested in seeing your design. Thanks.

RMW

It's not actually my design. It's based off of Neil's Shaper Origin cart that he posted up on the Origin Community forums. I'm just changing a few things to make it work for the Vac Sys. It will have the foot pedal mounted in the center bottom, the pump toward to top for easy access to on/off, hose routing, and overall height to clear an MFT/3 with material clamped to one of the pods. Along with systainer storage and shelving in the back, but those are part of Neil's design.

scholar · « **Reply #42 on:** February 10, 2019, 06:48 PM »

[quote author=Richard/RMW link=topic=58071.msg570762#msg570762 date

Also, any idea what the ID is of the Festool hose? I had a bear of a time getting 3/8" barbs into it, but 1/4" seemed too small. 8mm perhaps?

RMW
[/quote]

The barb is 9mm and the screw in fittings are 3/4” BSP.

There is quite a lot of detail in this thread
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/my-vac-sys-setup/msg560073/#msg560073

Cheers

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #43 on:** February 10, 2019, 07:10 PM »

Quote from: scholar on February 10, 2019, 06:48 PM

[quote author=Richard/RMW link=topic=58071.msg570762#msg570762 date

Also, any idea what the ID is of the Festool hose? I had a bear of a time getting 3/8" barbs into it, but 1/4" seemed too small. 8mm perhaps?

RMW

The barb is 9mm and the screw in fittings are 3/4” BSP.

There is quite a lot of detail in this thread
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/my-vac-sys-setup/msg560073/#msg560073

Cheers
[/quote]

Thanks @scholar - that helps. Not readily available over here but that's a separate issue. Good to have all the specs.

RMW

Cheese · « **Reply #44 on:** February 10, 2019, 09:33 PM »

Hey Richard,
As scholar noted the threads are 3/4 BSP. I found some QD end fittings from Menards that were 3/4 BSP and had a 3/8” barb. They initially were a tight fit with the Festool tubing, but after some heat gun action on the Festool tubing, they acquiesced. They fit so tight I probably didn’t even need to use clamps.

Tubing for a vacuum situation can be problematic. If the wall thickness is too thin or the durometer is too soft, the tubing can and will collapse.

That’s the reason I decided to just purchase the Festool tubing rather than to reinvent the wheel. If I needed 200 feet of vacuum hose I’d probably considered 2nd sourcing, but for 15 feet, Das macht nichts.