Author Topic: Vac Sys SE 1 question  (Read 1588 times)

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Offline AndrewG

  • Posts: 88
Vac Sys SE 1 question
« on: April 01, 2019, 06:23 AM »
Hi,

I was hoping if you’d be able to help answer a question in regards to the vac Sys clamping system.

Do you think it will hold the chair I’m working on below? I need to be able to clamp beneath the seat and use rasps to shape the arms, legs etc. From my research the chair would hold, but not sure how rigid it would be? I’d need it to not wobble much.

I’ve always wanted a pattern makers vice but I like the look of the vac Sys and I think it would be handy to have in the shop.

Your help is appreciated.
Cheers



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Offline infer

  • Posts: 36
Re: Vac Sys SE 1 question
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2019, 07:12 AM »
With only one head it will hold but there will be some movement.  Not sure if two heads will fit under the seat to provide the stability you require.

Offline AndrewG

  • Posts: 88
Re: Vac Sys SE 1 question
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2019, 01:18 AM »
Thanks for the reply. From my research everyone says the same thing that it’ll work, but there will be some wobble. It won’t be the only use I have for it so I ended up getting a second hand unit so need to look into the accessories now.

I usually do smaller scale work so the smaller pads look rather appealing. The 200mm x 60mm and 277mm x 32mm look very useful, and I already have uses for them right now. At $375 for both I could get the full set with the 275mm x 100mm for $480 with the classic Sys 3 which seems like the way to go.

One thing I learned during my research was that in the US you can’t get the vacuum in the systainer? I was pleasantly surprised when I found out the vacs here in Australia are built into the systainer which seems very handy. Not trying to rub it in or anything [emoji51]

I’d love to hear your experiences with the different  pads and which one you use the most and what applications they are used in.

Cheers!

Offline AndrewG

  • Posts: 88
Vac Sys SE 1 question
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2019, 01:18 AM »
Thanks for the reply. From my research a lot of people say the same thing that it’ll work, but there will be some wobble. It won’t be the only use I have for it so I ended up getting a second hand unit so need to look into the accessories now.

I usually do smaller scale work so the smaller pads look rather appealing. The 200mm x 60mm and 277mm x 32mm look very useful, and I already have uses for them right now. At $375 for both I could get the full set with the 275mm x 100mm for $480 with the classic Sys 3 which seems like the way to go.

One thing I learned during my research was that in the US you can’t get the vacuum in the systainer? I was pleasantly surprised when I found out the vacs here in Australia are built into the systainer which seems very handy. Not trying to rub it in or anything [emoji51]

I’d love to hear your experiences with the different  pads and which one you use the most and what applications they are used in.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 02:18 AM by AndrewG »

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5782
Re: Vac Sys SE 1 question
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2019, 09:15 AM »
If you were to attach some 3/4" ply to the bottom of the seat you could then use 2 vacuum heads and that combo will take care of any chair movement.

Then after you remove the ply,  plug the holes with wood plugs of your choice and turn the mounting method into a design element. No one will ever know but they'll always wonder.  [big grin]

Offline AndrewG

  • Posts: 88
Re: Vac Sys SE 1 question
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2019, 10:48 PM »
Ok, so a bit of an update. I picked up the vac sys yesterday. I had my daughter with me so it was a bit hard to properly test the unit etc, but the guy I got it off clamped a piece of scrap ply and the vac seemed to grab it nicely (he was able to tilt the ply back etc)

So last night I played around with it for a bit and something didn’t seem right. Firstly, it took 1 minute 45 seconds to get from 0 to 0.8 bar as per the picture below. I then tried to vacuum clamp the vac sys to a flat piece of plywood, and with not much pressure at all the vac sys would pop off and the pressure gauge goes back to zero. Then another 1 minute 45 seconds to get back up to 0.8. Then I decided to see how the clamping head would go, so I attached a piece of 500mm by 500mm melamine and I was able to pull it off the with moderate pressure.

I know I’m new to this system, but surely this doesn’t seem right? Am I doing something wrong? I downloaded the manual last night and everything points to putting it in for repair. I had a look at the filter and it seems to have quite a bit of dust built up inside. I’m also under 300 metres above sea level, so that can’t be an issue.

Also, is it possible to get a date of when this unit was made? There is 08/08 on the unit, not sure if this actually means 2008 or something else. I know they came out around that time.

Anyway, I was hoping someone might chime in and give me some advice before I call up the bloke and talk to him about a return.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5782
Re: Vac Sys SE 1 question
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2019, 11:52 PM »
According to Festool specs, the vertical holding force with a D15 (circular) cup is 121#, while the horizontal holding force with the same cup is 198#.

The melamine issue is particularly worrisome as it should be darn near impossible to pull a piece of smooth melamine off of one of the vacuum heads.

If you purchased it for a good price try working with the original owner and let him know about your misgivings before you decide to trash the deal. However, if you purchased it for 10% under the current cost...return the item as it's more work that it's worth.

The 08/08 is indeed the manufacturing date.

If you are also evacuating the cavity under the vacuum head base, it can take a significant period of time to pull it down to max. There is a lot of volume to evacuate there. The bonus round though is that it provides you with a safety net.  [big grin]
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 12:19 AM by Cheese »

Offline AndrewG

  • Posts: 88
Vac Sys SE 1 question
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2019, 12:33 AM »
According to Festool specs, the vertical holding force with a D15 (circular) cup is 121#, while the horizontal holding force with the same cup is 198#.

The melamine issue is particularly worrisome as it should be darn near impossible to pull a piece of smooth melamine off of one of the vacuum heads.

If you purchased it for a good price try working with the original owner and let him know about your misgivings before you decide to trash the deal. However, if you purchased it for 10% under the current cost...return the item as it's more work that it's worth.

The 08/08 is indeed the manufacturing date.

If you are also evacuating the cavity under the vacuum head base, it can take a significant period of time to pull it down to max. There is a lot of volume to evacuate there. The bonus round though is that it provides you with a safety net.  [big grin]

Thanks for the reply Cheese. I got it for AU $900 which is half the price of new. It was more of a luxury item, but I figured it was a good price so I went ahead and got it as it was 4 years old and apparently hardly been used. I got it with the clear understanding it was working perfectly. Given the manufacturing date of 2008, I doubt it could possibly be that new. 

I went on YouTube and saw a video of a guy turning his vac Sys on, and it went straight to 0.8 or higher instantly. So mine taking almost 2 minutes is definitely a worry.

I’ve also checked for leaks etc and couldn’t find anything obvious. I’ll contact Festool and describe the problem, and see what they reckon it may cost to fix before I speak to the seller.

Edit: So I put my finger on the outlet with the hose removed, and the gauge went straight up without any delay. So I figure there must be a leak in the line somewhere? There was nothing obvious from what I saw.

Cheers
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 01:38 AM by AndrewG »

Offline infer

  • Posts: 36
Re: Vac Sys SE 1 question
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2019, 01:20 AM »
Check to see if the valve on the head is clean as by the manual. Mine never needs more than a second to seal both the material and the base to the workbench. If a good clean up doesn’t fix it send it back for repair or refund.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5782
Re: Vac Sys SE 1 question
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2019, 09:36 AM »

Edit: So I put my finger on the outlet with the hose removed, and the gauge went straight up without any delay. So I figure there must be a leak in the line somewhere? There was nothing obvious from what I saw.


I agree with that assumption Andrew.

Another method for testing for leaks is to take that melamine, place it on the head, bring the system to the appropriate level and then shut off the pump. On my system, I can shut the pump off for 45-60 minutes, and still not be able to remove the melamine from the head. Thus the reason for my melamine comment in my previous reply.

Also try using the cavity underneath the base and also not using the cavity, controlled by the green slide valve on the body, to see if things get better or worse. Remove the foot valve and see if that helps. You're just trying to track down where the leak/leaks are coming from.

Here's a page with Festool manuals. The VAC SYS manual is at the bottom. On page 17 are directions on how to clean the Button Valve that Infer was talking about. It's item 10-1 and also 12-1.

https://www.festoolusa.com/service/owners-manuals#OtherManuals

Offline harry_

  • Posts: 1258
Re: Vac Sys SE 1 question
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2019, 05:37 PM »
Check your surfaces. I know that from time to time I can't get mine to grab a piece of red oak for nothing. The grain is just too porous. The few times I have tried it with MDF I struck out as well. I think it was just really cheap MDF.

I also use a piece of azek on top of my mft for the bases to grab to. They don't really like that either, at first. Once they do get a grip on it though they're good for all day.

Generally, once I have my setup established I get out of the red immediately and another second or two to max out in the green.
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Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5782
Re: Vac Sys SE 1 question
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2019, 06:03 PM »
The few times I have tried it with MDF I struck out as well. I think it was just really cheap MDF.

All MDF is porous to a greater or lesser degree. A coat or 2 of sanding sealer fixes the problem.

Offline AndrewG

  • Posts: 88
Re: Vac Sys SE 1 question
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2019, 06:35 PM »
I had a play with it a few days ago. I tried cleaning, I ensured the valve connections were connected correctly, I looked for leaks etc and it still was not reaching the right amount of vacuum it should be. And when it reached just enough and a piece of melamine was attached, it would just pop off with little force.

I ended up contacting the seller and gave him the option of me returning the vac sys, or I put it in for service and he covers the costs. To his credit, he was happy for me to put it in for service. So I did one more check, then dropped it off yesterday for repair. I’ll keep you posted when I hear back from Festool as to what the problem was.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5782
Re: Vac Sys SE 1 question
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2019, 08:26 PM »
So I did one more check, then dropped it off yesterday for repair. I’ll keep you posted when I hear back from Festool as to what the problem was.

Ask Festool for a list of the parts they replaced for your own edification. You’ll probably want that info sooner or later.  [smile]

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3851
Re: Vac Sys SE 1 question
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2019, 03:58 PM »
The few times I have tried it with MDF I struck out as well. I think it was just really cheap MDF.

All MDF is porous to a greater or lesser degree. A coat or 2 of sanding sealer fixes the problem.

It’s amazing when you think about it, considering the leaky un-sealed MDF, after coating the suction cup side with sealer (or tape), the atmosphere is pushing down on that very thin layer of sealer. Amazing that it (the atmosphere) doesn’t just push that layer off.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5782
Re: Vac Sys SE 1 question
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2019, 09:37 AM »
It’s amazing when you think about it, considering the leaky un-sealed MDF, after coating the suction cup side with sealer (or tape), the atmosphere is pushing down on that very thin layer of sealer. Amazing that it (the atmosphere) doesn’t just push that layer off.

Ya, that's the reason I usually give it 2 coats of sanding sealer, because I never know if I have 100% coverage with a single coat.

Thanks for reminding me about the tape trick, I just may need to use that today for some plywood.  [big grin]

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1238
Re: Vac Sys SE 1 question
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2019, 04:27 PM »
My guess is that the replacement part list on the pump unit will be the slide valve and the filter, you should change the latter once a year (or when it's getting too dirty inside) as a failing filter will cause the quick death of the slide valve...