Tom Bellemare
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Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
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« on: August 05, 2012, 02:33 AM » |
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I'm in the process of making some videos of the upcoming offerings, currently including the CMS and TI 15. I don't yet have access to a MultiFunction Stool so it will have to wait a bit. I will be posting these videos as they are produced. Please cut me some slack as I'm no pro when it comes to making them... I am attempting to use them to demonstrate what I fell is a reasonable response to the questions and concerns that I gather through multiple means. I make these videos for information not production quality. I'm not trying to become a movie star, just answer questions as clearly as possible. The concept arose when I learned that others were questioning whether the KAPEX UG Extensions were truly compatible with the CMS. I tried one of my UG Extensions on the CMS and when attached, the surfaces were not coplanar. Then I remembered that the same thing happens with the KAPEX or the MFT/3. I made certain that the two were securely connected via the v-groove. I do that by letting the leg out a little and a slight wiggle of the whole thing while tightening. If you can't get it real solid, you aren't making the connection right. There's a slotted tab and a thumbscrew underneath and the tab has to be seated on a part of the extrusion that is flat. If it isn't, you must push it toward the v-groove's extrusion until it is. That subject has been discussed at length here before but it bears repeating... I tried a small, cleaned up piece of stock sliding fron the CMS deck to the UG Extension deck and back. It got caught in the transition. I then tried to adjust the leg of the Extension by eye and feel and got frustrated. So, I got out a nice Stabila 4' 196 Level and used it as a reference. Any good straight edge of sufficient length would work but the flat on the level makes it easier. It took me about 4 tries but I got it just right. The real trick is to realize that a little turn on the Extension's leg adjuster goes a long way. It's the same when using it with the KAPEX but for some reason, my brain turned off that fact... Anyway, if you're one of those that found this frustrating, as I did, or you have heard "through the grapevine" that it doesn't work, it really does. The second Extension that I mounted to the CMS only took me two adjustment tries. Everything gets easier with practice.
Tom |
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« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 03:32 AM by Tom Bellemare »
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2012, 03:29 AM » |
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The second in this video series is showing the simplest of CMS set ups. It's a dust extraction hood for use with a bearing bit. I'm using a Festool 8 mm radius roundover bit to treat the corners of this small work piece. I like it for a modern piece with about 50-70 mm proportions. Note that the Edge Treatment Dust Shroud comes with a "Starting Guide" that is an elongated plastic piece that touches the bearing on the bit. It is adjustable vertically, angularly, and horizontally so you can set it as a virtually perfect entry guide to the bit. It's easy to set up and easy to use. The CT 26 had a 36 mm antistatic hose above and below and the CT set on full when making the roundover. There is almost no dust left after this operation. If you were to run hundreds of feet through the set up, it would be cumulative but imagine it without dust extraction...
Tom EDIT: Removed erroneous video, replaced with new one, and modified verbiage to reflect changes. |
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« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 09:15 PM by Tom Bellemare »
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Tom Bellemare
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Location: Austin, Texas - USA Member Since: Nov 2007
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Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
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« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2012, 04:22 AM » |
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I thought it might be instructive to a few to also show the set up at the CT 26. Here is an image of the front of the CT. I have the normal Y-Adapter and two 36 mm hoses attached. One goes below the table to the router and one goes above to the Dust Shroud or Fence, depending on the configuration.  Tom EDIT: Incidentally, I have the WCR mounted to the CT. It helps a lot with handling the hoses. I'm using the tool holder ends. |
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Brice Burrell
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« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2012, 08:34 AM » |
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Glad to see you making videos Tom and I look forward to seeing more, especially of the stool when you get one. ......I tried a small, cleaned up piece of stock sliding fron the CMS deck to the UG Extension deck and back. It got caught in the transition. I then tried to adjust the leg of the Extension by eye and feel and got frustrated. So, I got out a nice Stabila 4' 196 Level and used it as a reference. Any good straight edge of sufficient length would work but the flat on the level makes it easier. It took me about 4 tries but I got it just right. The real trick is to realize that a little turn on the Extension's leg adjuster goes a long way. It's the same when using it with the KAPEX but for some reason, my brain turned off that fact......
Have tried setting up the CMS extension table yet, you'll love that, more frustration.  I found everything easy to setup on the CMS with the exception of the extension table. There was a lot of back and forth to get that just right. .....I think you'll notice that there is almost no dust left. I wanted to photo the leftover dust but it seemed silly when I started to. I literally just puffed once at the top of the table from a couple of feet and the few bits were gone. I'm guessing there's Somebody in Pennsylvania that can attest to the voracity of that claim......
Well, I'll just assume I'm the somebody from Pennsylvania, Tom is right, the dust collection is very good. In all fairness, the amount of dust you get from one small piece is of no consequence. After several hundred linear feet you should expect some dust on the table. I like the design of the starter pin or maybe it could be better described as starter finger since no a pin at all. There is a long plastic finger that extends from the edge of the dust shroud to bearing on the bit. This give full support of your work piece all the way to the bit. I think this desing is a little safer than the traditional starter pin.  I thought it might be instructive to a few to also show the set up at the CT 26. Here is an image of the front of the CT. I have the normal Y-Adapter and two 36 mm hoses attached. One goes below the table to the router and one goes above to the Dust Shroud or Fence, depending on the configuration.....
I don't have the hose set that will be part of the package but I believe they is one D36 and one D27 non-antistatic hose with a Y splitter. There are a couple of things worth mentioning while on the subject of hoses. If you don't go with Festool hose set keep in mind that you need a D36 hose for the fence, the D27 will not fit. Also, a D50 can work on the fence but the fit isn't perfect. So if you have the short piece of D50 from the boom arm or a shop vac hose you could try that. |
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woodie
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« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2012, 08:44 AM » |
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Thanks for the videos Tom. I wondered how well the kapex extensions would work.
The second video sounds like an OF2200...
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Brice Burrell
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« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2012, 08:54 AM » |
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Thanks for the videos Tom. I wondered how well the kapex extensions would work.
The second video sounds like an OF2200...
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RonWen
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« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2012, 11:46 AM » |
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I thought it might be instructive to a few to also show the set up at the CT 26. Here is an image of the front of the CT. I have the normal Y-Adapter and two 36 mm hoses attached. One goes below the table to the router and one goes above to the Dust Shroud or Fence, depending on the configuration.
[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]
Tom
EDIT:
Incidentally, I have the WCR mounted to the CT. It helps a lot with handling the hoses. I'm using the tool holder ends.
[/b] Does Festool offer a shorter "Y" harness (more compact, more efficient) for the CMS fence & below table collection than the two long hoses? That seems a bit cumbersome. |
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Reiska
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Hackers build things, Crackers break them.
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« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2012, 12:09 PM » |
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Atleast the Y-hose sold in Europe has shorter lenghts of the gray non-antistatic hose one half in 27mm and the other half in 36mm diametre.
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The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. |
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2012, 12:20 PM » |
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The CMS comes with a split Fence... When using the Fence, the first thing to do is attach it. There are 4 threaded holes in the deck that can be used. I'd attach it to the two closest to the bit to start with. That is done using the thumb screws marked "1" in the image below. There is play in this attachment and there are also linear scales on the fence and marks on the tabletop. If the fence is mounted in the back holes, the marking on the tabletop becomes useless and therefore, so do the scales. The next thing I would do is register the two halves of the fence to one another. I'm using a Stabila held tight across the face of the left half of the fence because it doesn't adjust. Loosen the thumbscrew (#3) and turn the knob (#2) until the two halves are coplanar. When you have them just right, turn the white ring (#4) to zero it. The small thumbscrew (#3) secures it This split fence can be offset so the table can become a small jointer. Turning knob (#2) backs off the right half by .1 mm for each number on the white ring (#4). The total travel on this one is about 4.6 mm from my zeroed position.  Tom |
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2012, 12:26 PM » |
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Does Festool offer a shorter "Y" harness (more compact, more efficient) for the CMS fence & below table collection than the two long hoses? That seems a bit cumbersome. Ron: There are two kits for each configuration, GE (stand alone) and VL (MFT/3 extension). The two full kits come with the Hose Set and the other two don't. That hose set can be bought separately, I just don't happen to have one yet so I used what I have.  Of course, you can make up any length(s) of any hose you want and just get the Y-adapter. Tom |
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2012, 12:34 PM » |
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it could be better described as starter finger since no a pin at all. Thanks for straightening me out on that one, Brice. I thought the pin was a bit far from the bit. It makes total sense now. With you having had the benefit of actual training using this and more time with it than me, I would really welcome any corrections or content enhancements you have. I'm figuring this out as I go... I'll fix the above video and repost it. I was using it as a hold-down. I don't have the hose set that will be part of the package but I believe they is one D36 and one D27 non-antistatic hose with a Y splitter. I don't have one yet either but I'm almost certain that you are correct. Tom |
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2012, 12:39 PM » |
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Well, I'll just assume I'm the somebody from Pennsylvania, Tom is right, the dust collection is very good. In all fairness, the amount of dust you get from one small piece is of no consequence. After several hundred linear feet you should expect some dust on the table. I agree that wasn't much of a test but when I made the first pass, I forgot to connect the top hose. There still wasn't much dust on the table except for a small pile in the back of the dust shroud, below where the hose hooks up. I connected the hose and turned on the CT and it was instantly eliminated. I was impressed by that and by how little escapes the CT when done properly. Tom |
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Brice Burrell
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« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2012, 01:06 PM » |
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Well, I'll just assume I'm the somebody from Pennsylvania, Tom is right, the dust collection is very good. In all fairness, the amount of dust you get from one small piece is of no consequence. After several hundred linear feet you should expect some dust on the table. I agree that wasn't much of a test but when I made the first pass, I forgot to connect the top hose. There still wasn't much dust on the table except for a small pile in the back of the dust shroud, below where the hose hooks up. I connected the hose and turned on the CT and it was instantly eliminated. I was impressed by that and by how little escapes the CT when done properly. Tom We're on the same page when it comes to how well the CMS collects the dust. I just like to be careful commenting on dust collection since expectations very so much. Someone who's only experience is with Festool sanders might have unrealistic expectations. You'll see that a lot in regards to the Kapex's dust collection.... |
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fritter63
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« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2012, 04:33 PM » |
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This split fence can be offset so the table can become a small jointer. Turning knob (#2) backs off the right half by .1 mm for each number on the white ring (#4). The total travel on this one is about 4.6 mm from my zeroed position.
Shouldn't those knobs be Festool green?  |
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2012, 05:07 PM » |
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The big fence adjusting knob in the back maybe. The thumbscrew knobs are always black.
Or maybe, it's a test to see if we'd notice...
Tom
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2012, 05:12 PM » |
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This is a short one to demonstrate how easy it is to change the bit from the top. I'm a shade under 6' and I'm reaching in from the side to hold the ratcheting button on the router.
Tom |
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« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 03:30 PM by Tom Bellemare »
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fritter63
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« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2012, 08:57 PM » |
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This is a short one to demonstrate how easy it is to change the bit from the top. I'm a shade under 6' and I'm reaching in from the side to hold the ratcheting button on the router.
Pretty nice. Had to use my router table (extension wing on the unisaw) today with the PC 7518 monster in it. Probably the first time in 6 years I've fired up that router (remember, I was busy building a house for much of that). And I've been leaving the PC router in place under the table. I found that there is now rust on the collet base. Think I can justify a new CMS based on that? |
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tjbnwi
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« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2012, 10:08 PM » |
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Tom,
I noticed the Syslite in the collect change video, is that included in the CMS-GE set?
I'll take the CMS in the video if you want to ship it to me now!
Tom
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2012, 10:37 PM » |
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Think I can justify a new CMS based on that? I'd guess at least some Formula 2050. I noticed the Syslite in the collect change video If I had my lighting handled in that shop, I wouldn't need it. It's a pretty handy little light though. I'll take the CMS in the video if you want to ship it to me now! I'd take it too. Unfortunately, it doesn't belong to me... I'd be happy to own it and I'd be happy to send it to you, Tom... Except? Tom |
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2012, 03:43 PM » |
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I just put up a page on my website showing how easy it is to mount the OF 1400 to the CMS. Tom |
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2012, 11:57 PM » |
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I have added instructional content to my website that details mounting routers, mounting and using the fence and the edge routing dust shroud with starting guide. I don't have the 1010 mounting section done yet or anything relating to the Sliding Table, Miter Gauge, or Table Extension. I will get do the 1010 section soon, probably tomorrow. The other 3 items have been ordered with my demo' set. This so far has been done using a table I put together with my Rep' on Saturday. It's his demo'. I think looking over these pages will help clear up most questions on this product and I will try to get the rest of the content done as soon as I can. Tom |
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RL
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« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2012, 03:33 AM » |
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Tom, In your notes on "Mounting the Edge Routing Dust Shroud on the CMS" you write "slide the clear plastic guard down to hold the work piece down on the table during the routing operation." I don't think the dust shroud should be used as a featherboard and I think the official Festool video shows a small gap (IIRC). Unlike the featherboards on the straight fence, there should be a gap of a couple of mm between the workpiece and the dust shroud. Here's the video you can see the gap at around the 2.45 mark.
By the way, your instructions are a million times better than the official Festool ones! Richard. |
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« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 03:45 AM by Richard Leon »
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I like green.
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2012, 09:12 AM » |
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Intuitively, I didn't think so either, Richard. Then I read the manual... Here's a quote from the manual. Adjust the curved guard until the transparent protective cover [29-1] rests on the workpiece. I would expect some sort of springy edge if it is to touch the work piece but that's what they said. I'll give it a try when I can and see how it performs. Tom EDIT: I guess I should have watched the video before replying. It looked to me like he did as the quote above says. I don't speak much German so I don't know what he was saying at the time. Perhaps one of our German members can chime in? Additionally, the still image for this video represents an unsafe practice. It shows this guy performing a routing operation with the elevator crank in the way. |
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« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 09:20 AM by Tom Bellemare »
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Nigel
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« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2012, 11:33 AM » |
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The CMS comes with a split Fence...
When using the Fence, the first thing to do is attach it. There are 4 threaded holes in the deck that can be used. I'd attach it to the two closest to the bit to start with. That is done using the thumb screws marked "1" in the image below. There is play in this attachment and there are also linear scales on the fence and marks on the tabletop. If the fence is mounted in the back holes, the marking on the tabletop becomes useless and therefore, so do the scales.
The next thing I would do is register the two halves of the fence to one another. I'm using a Stabila held tight across the face of the left half of the fence because it doesn't adjust. Loosen the thumbscrew (#3) and turn the knob (#2) until the two halves are coplanar. When you have them just right, turn the white ring (#4) to zero it. The small thumbscrew (#3) secures it
This split fence can be offset so the table can become a small jointer. Turning knob (#2) backs off the right half by .1 mm for each number on the white ring (#4). The total travel on this one is about 4.6 mm from my zeroed position.
[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]
Tom
Tom, There are extra adjustments that may have to be made to a new fence. The two fence halves may not be parallel. There are white plastic screw adjusters on the top and bottom of the offset half to alter the end furthest from the collet in or out to make the fence half parallel with the fixed half. Not only that but the same type of adjuster screws are on either side of the fence base to set the whole unit square vertically to the table. I mentioned this in another thread but the silence was deafening.  |
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RL
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« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2012, 12:17 PM » |
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Fair enough Tom, if that's what the manual says! But because there is no elasticity in the fence, I am still reluctant to possibly trap the wood under it. To have the shroud touching the wood makes no sense to me.
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I like green.
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2012, 12:20 PM » |
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Thanks, Nigel!
I'll include those. This one only needed the one adjustment but I'll experiment with those other adjustments and include them in the info' on my website to help complete it.
I'm still making my way through the stuff I recorded over the weekend and organizing it to be useful.
Tom
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« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 08:13 PM by Tom Bellemare »
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2012, 12:21 PM » |
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Fair enough Tom, if that's what the manual says! But because there is no elasticity in the fence, I am still reluctant to possibly trap the wood under it. To have the shroud touching the wood makes no sense to me.
Like I said, it didn't make sense to me either and I'm still going to have to be convinced through experimentation. Tom |
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2012, 02:00 PM » |
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I just finished adding the OF 1010 to my list of CMS router mounting. They are all slightly different but also very much the same. That part is complete now. I'll work on the fence detail Nigel mentioned later today if I have time. Tom |
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2012, 01:23 PM » |
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I just enhanced the fence page to include the fine tuning aspects. Tom |
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2012, 03:29 PM » |
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Here is an unedited version of my first attempt at using the OF 1400 and CMS as a jointer. Prior to starting this video, I put some scallops in the edge of the work piece so it was obvious what I was accomplishing. The scalloped edge was also rounded over by 8mm. The first thing is setting the "Bearing Shoes", which is the CMS's answer to feather boards. After one pass, it was pretty clean but I didn't offset the fences enough to be completely clean. I then made a second pass and a mistake... I failed to reset the horizontal Bearing Shoe and the work piece was now smaller. If you look closely at the end of the edge inspection part, you can detect some snipe. At first, I didn't realize why I got snipe. Then, just before running a third pass, it hit me that I didn't tighten up the Bearing Shoe. I tightened it up ('could have gone tighter) and ran the third pass. The work piece came out real nice.
Tom EDIT: Please note the sound during the second pass with the loose Bearing Shoe. I knew something was wrong but my mind was sort of overloaded at the time with the video, the new tool, etc. It's a good lesson in listening to your instincts and senses... |
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« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 09:37 PM by Tom Bellemare »
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