Author Topic: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?  (Read 3659 times)

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Offline Jimxavier

  • Posts: 11
I’ve decided to get a TS75 and an MFT/3 table with the guide rials. Unless someone convinces me otherwise I’m going with the TS75. This will be my only saw.

I’m going with the MFT table and likely a CT26.

This will be the beginning of my shop, though I have been trained with and frequently use Festool tools. I’m very familiar with the brand.

Right off the bat I’ve got a few questions:

What are the capabilities of this set up?

How accurate will the MFT/3 and TS set up be?

How can I build projects without a planer? Am I limited to sheet goods based projects?

How difficult is it to setup the MFT/3 table accurately? Are there any accessories that are highly recommended?

If you could choose one additional tool for the set up, what would it be (domino, sander, drill, router)? I’m leaning towards the router, is the OF 1400 sufficient? I love dovetails, but have read it can be complicated with the 1400.

It should also be noted a table saw is not an option due to space. This compact and versitile set up will work really well with my space.

Can someone link the newest models for the 3 products - it seems like they’ve made minor variations in 2017/18 to some of them.

That’s all for now, I’ll follow up with more questions once the post gains some traction! Thanks,
Jimxavier



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Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2018, 07:47 PM »
My opinion is that the 75 is an over kill unless you are cutting thick hard wood. The 55 is adequate for almost every cutting task.

Many wood sources sell straight planed wood, but you pay a premium. Otherwise, you will need both a planer and a jointer for anything but plywood.

You will need a large very true square to true up the MFT fence. I use a Woodpecker framing square.

I added a SlopStop to my MFT fence. It virtually eliminates any side to side fence movement.

The Domino is a game changer in joinery, but probably isn’t a necessary tool.

The Festool routers and drills are great, but the big box versions work well at a much lower price.
Birdhunter

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2513
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2018, 08:50 PM »
That is a good set-up. I would add the router to the mix for one additional tool. It is good for all kinds of joinery and a must-have tool. I really like Festool routers and being able to use them with the guide-rail helps straightening edges or fine-tuning where the track saw does not work and you can even use it to level/plane wood - not fast, but will get you there if you do not have other tools to do so at your disposal - look up building router sleds to get an idea. I used the TS75 as my only saw for years - well that is not entirely true, as I have a cabinet saw, but I purposely used only the TS75 and MFT/3 and so far I have made lots and lots of projects with this set-up - in fact, I have not even turned on my cabinet saw in several years - it has become storage for the most part. I have debated selling it, but I already own it and I have some special cutters and heads for it that I am hesitant to give up. But, you can to lots of quality work with the TS saw.

If you are not cutting a ton of thick stock, then the TS55 might be a better fit - I have the cordless version and really like this saw. The smaller size is lighter to swing around all day and it is better suited to cross-cutting on the MFT/3 with its smaller base. Of course, you sacrifice depth of cut. But, if you work in 6/4 or thinner stock and mostly 4/4 and sheet good, then this would be a good choice. I also like the Festool drills because of the versatile heads and trigger, but other drills might serve you well. The sanders are all excellent and worth a look if you need one and the Domino is game changing - but, a router is more versatile if you are just starting out as you can do joinery and edge profiles and a host of other things. It is one of the 3-4 core tools every woodworker needs, in my opinion.

Offline Jimxavier

  • Posts: 11
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2018, 09:08 PM »
@ScotF thanks!  I do like hardwoods especially thick ones.  My concern with the TS55, is that if this is my only saw, I would like it to have max capacity as I don't and won't for probably a decade or more have a full blown table saw.  Is weight the only issue with the TS75, or is there another reason the TS55 is superior.

Is this TS and MFT table accurate to reliably put a good edge on wood, or would I be better off using the router for that jointing  task.

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2513
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2018, 01:14 AM »
@ScotF thanks!  I do like hardwoods especially thick ones.  My concern with the TS55, is that if this is my only saw, I would like it to have max capacity as I don't and won't for probably a decade or more have a full blown table saw.  Is weight the only issue with the TS75, or is there another reason the TS55 is superior.

Is this TS and MFT table accurate to reliably put a good edge on wood, or would I be better off using the router for that jointing  task.

It is accurate for crosscuts. For rips, it is all how careful you are aligning the rail to your marks. I think that the TS75 is a great all around saw. It was my first Festool and I like it now as much as I did when I bought it years ago. It can handle everything well. If you do not process thicker wood, then the 55 might be a better choice as it is easier to maneuver and lighter weight and the anti-splinter engages on crosscuts with the MFT on thinner stock. But, the 75 performs well too. Like I said, I used a 75 only for years and made all kinds of furniture and cabinets without issue.

Offline Sanderxpander

  • Posts: 171
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2018, 02:36 AM »
There is a (pricy) attachment for the MFT/3 that works like a CMS-GE, meaning you could run your TS as a table saw. Might be worth considering since you have no space for a permanent one.

Maybe it isn't necessary with the MFT/3 but I love my TSO Products GRS-16 guiderail square. If you need a big square anyway it's worth the investment.

Rather than recommending one tool with no info to go on, I would ask what projects you're planning on doing and what kind of basic stuff you already have. You might be more helped with a couple of good clamps or a metric square rather than another powertool.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2018, 06:04 AM »
This site is full of posts of people struggling to get glue ready cuts using a track saw. Some people have gotten their saw, bench, and technique polished to the point of perfection and can cut glue ready joints using a 55 or 75. Many struggle.

If possible, I suggest you visit a store that has both Festool track saws and handle them both. The 75 is a large heavy tool.

I forgot to suggest you buy some bench dogs. I use both Qwas and the ones designed by Peter Parfitt. The dogs allow you to make use of the high precision hole pattern in the MFT. I usually have 4 in use simultaneously.

I have all the Festool routers. I use the 1400 most often. If I have to hog out lots of wood, I use the 2200. The 1010 is limited to 1/4” bit shafts that I avoid.

Festool drills mostly come in C handle and T handle. Just personal preference. Either TSX or CSX for light work and T18 for heavier work. The small drills are absolutely delightful to use.

Again, the Domino is amazing. I avoided buying one for years, making biscuits do the work. Now, it’s rare that I don’t use the Domino on a project.

My guess is that you will buy a full blown table saw sooner than later. I know many people make do with just a track saw and I admire their skill, but I’m keeping my table saw. I do a lot of very high precision work and a high quality table saw cannot be beat for that work.

There are some excellent contractor saws now. Look at the SawStop contractor saw.

I’d add a block plane and a larger plane. I like Lie Nielsen planes they are perfect right out of the box.

Anyway, good luck with building your shop.

Birdhunter

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3595
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2018, 06:35 AM »
What do you have in mind on your project list?  This will help narrow down what if any additional tools you might get to start, and also whether you will be able to live for the moment without a planer.

BTW, if you're mostly going to be making stuff from sheet goods and pre-dimensioned 3/4 lumber, you might not need the extra capacity of the TS75.  On the MFT you will actually lose a few inches of cross-cut capacity going with the TS75, since it needs more space at the front and back end of the cut over the 55.  Personally I prefer working with the cordless TSC55 on the MFT, especially for repeat cuts, as you don't have to worry about cords (and, if you like, hoses) catching on anything.  Plus the TSC55 performs better under load than the corded version.

The MFT is very accurate.  The only fussiness people usually encounter, once they have mastered squaring the rail, is maintaining square when changing the height of the rail for different stock thicknesses.  Here the slop stop that someone already mentioned can help, though it is not a foolproof solution when adjusting for different thicknesses.   

Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 604
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2018, 07:07 AM »
Welcome to the FOG!

I’ve decided to get a TS75 and an MFT/3 table with the guide rials. Unless someone convinces me otherwise I’m going with the TS75. This will be my only saw.
Yes the TS 75 is heavier. To me it comes a factor if you cut short board at a fast pace. You will feel more fatigue with the TS 75. If you cut long boards weight is less a factor. Another thing to consider if you are a blade pack rat the TS 75 blades are 40% more expensive.

I’m going with the MFT table and likely a CT26.
Excellent choice! You may want to add a longlife bag to the CT 26 or an Ultimate Dust Deputy (UDD) from oneida.

How can I build projects without a planer? Am I limited to sheet goods based projects?
No you are not limited except if you play with wood thicker then 3/4", some lumber yards offer planing services.

If you could choose one additional tool for the set up, what would it be (domino, sander, drill, router)? I’m leaning towards the router, is the OF 1400 sufficient? I love dovetails, but have read it can be complicated with the 1400.
For most if not all projects you will have to sand, in my opinion sander comes first from your list. Drill would be my last concern. If you plan to do dovetails with a router/jig all Festool router will do the job. I never heard about problems with the OF 1400 routing dovetails, perhaps some jigs are more or less compatible.

Can someone link the newest models for the 3 products - it seems like they’ve made minor variations in 2017/18 to some of them.
TS 55
MFT/3
CT 26

Note: those links are displaying CAD, you can switch to US price
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 07:09 AM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5290
  • Does Anyone Know What Time It Is?
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2018, 11:27 AM »
>> What are the capabilities of this set up<<

You can do just about everything you want to however it does take some creativity, time and jig making to do it

>>How accurate will the MFT/3 and TS set up be?<<

Its very accurate but there will be a learning curve. 
What are the capabilities of this set up? 

>>How accurate will the MFT/3 and TS set up be?<<

Very accurate once you get the techniques down

How can I build projects without a planer?
>>Buy your timber S4S it is a bit pricey but it will do until you can afford a bench top planer or use a friends planer <<

>> Am I limited to sheet goods based projects?<<
No

How difficult is it to setup the MFT/3 table accurately? Are there any accessories that are highly recommended?

>>Its fairly easy and quick, but you need a known good square like a wood peckers 1281 or / and some dogs either qwas dogs or parf dogs. They are sold by retailers who frequent the FOG such as Bob Marino, Tool Nut etc <<

>>If you could choose one additional tool for the set up, what would it be (domino, sander, drill, router)? I’m leaning towards the router, is the OF 1400 sufficient? I love dovetails, but have read it can be complicated with the 1400. <<

It depends on what work you are doing. The domino using thru tenons makes some beautiful and strong drawers

>>It should also be noted a table saw is not an option due to space. This compact and versitile set up will work really well with my space. <<

There are many here that don’t have a table saw, with some creativity and jigs and patience you can do just about everything you would want with that set up.

>>Can someone link the newest models for the 3 products - it seems like they’ve made minor variations in 2017/18 to some of them. <<

Festool dealers will sell only the latest and greatest as far as I know. If in doubt call Bob Marino or Shane at tool nut to get the info prior to buying .

How can I build projects without a planer? Am I limited to sheet goods based projects?

>>you can buy your lumber s4s which is a little more pricey or just wait until when you can afford it buy a thickness planer<<

How difficult is it to setup the MFT/3 table accurately? Are there any accessories that are highly recommended? 

>>You will need a true known square square like a woodpeckers 1281, you might also get another flag stop for the MFT, you will need at least 2 to help you ensure repeatability. Dogs will make your life easier to Qwas dogs, Parf dogs. They are available from the retailers here who come here. Another flag stop will make your life easier, I have 10 of them<<

« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 11:53 AM by jobsworth »

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2018, 11:32 AM »
"The only fussiness people usually encounter, once they have mastered squaring the rail, is maintaining square when changing the height of the rail for different stock thicknesses."

I square the rail using two Qwas dogs along the far side of the MFT. I butt the Woodpecker framing square (roughly 16" by 26" legs) against the two dogs and adjust the rail to lie against the the long leg of the framing square. The Woodpecker framing square is dead nuts true. You probably know most big box squares are stamped metal and rarely really square.

When I cut, the wood is butted against the same two dogs that I used to square the fence. My cuts come out square.

I do check the rail if I change height. almost never have to resquare.

The MFT set comes with a protractor head. Mine is very dusty. Never used it.
Birdhunter

Offline Jimxavier

  • Posts: 11
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2018, 05:55 PM »
@Birdhunter thanks, I’m really on the fence about the TS75 vs TS55. Aside from the worst issues and the fact that the TS55 slides easier on the Track are there any other benefits to the TS55?

Are the cuts of the same quality, or does the TS55 make better cuts?

You mentioned dogs for the MFT table, sorry if I missed it, but which ones do you recommend?

And are all the woodpeckers squares accurate? I have no issue paying the extra money for a square that will be square.

Offline Jimxavier

  • Posts: 11
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2018, 06:03 PM »
@Mario Turcot thanks Mario!


I’m now drawn between the TS55 and TS75. Are the cuts of the same quality? I do enjoy some thick hardwoods every now and then. That was also when I had access to a fielder 20inch digital planer and a massive sliding table saw. I believe it was a Felder as well.

I do this as a hobby, on the weekends. I don’t suspect I would ever push the TS55 that hard, but it would be nice for thicker woods and the deeper cuts from the TS75.  I’m not sure how much I would be limited by the TS55 honestly. If the cuts are of better quality from the TS55, I may be interested in that. It’s a touch decision.

I do have a variety of clamps including nearly a dozen JET cabinet clamps, similar to Jorgensen. In my opinion they are superior.

I have a Ryobi random orbital sander which has gotten me by just fine, I’ve used the Festool 125 / 150. Can’t remember which and loved it. I know they are superior. I’ve used many times, but never owned a router.

For example, can the OF 1400 rout groves into the pieces of a picture from for example without have a router table? Can this be done on the MFT/3 table top?
I’m wondering if I can get by on the Ryobi for a bit and then upgrade to the Festool. One thing I’m wondering is - are the sizes simply just surface area? For the 125/150

One last thing: any additional accessories you recommend to compliment the set up? Others have mentioned dogs and such. I know this system is ever expandable.

I also asked another user about the best squares. What do you recommend?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 06:13 PM by Jimxavier »

Offline Brian Livingstone

  • Posts: 172
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2018, 06:24 PM »
Hi,

I upgraded to a 75 last year.  So nice !

Heavy but you get used to it.

If the 75 is in your budget get it.  No downside.

Brian
Kapex, TS75, MFT, OF1010, OF2200, DTS400 REQ, Parallel guide rails, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900, 3000 guide rail, Domino 500, CT36, CT Midi, , RS2E, RO150, Boom Arm, Crown stops, 6 drawer Sortainer, Carvex, Syslite II, Festool safety glasses must start to wear.

Offline Jimxavier

  • Posts: 11
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2018, 06:27 PM »
@Brian Livingston is the cut quality the same? You upgraded from a TS55?

Offline Brian Livingstone

  • Posts: 172
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2018, 06:48 PM »

The cut quality with the TS75 is a 10/10.

Maybe 11.

Brian
Kapex, TS75, MFT, OF1010, OF2200, DTS400 REQ, Parallel guide rails, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900, 3000 guide rail, Domino 500, CT36, CT Midi, , RS2E, RO150, Boom Arm, Crown stops, 6 drawer Sortainer, Carvex, Syslite II, Festool safety glasses must start to wear.

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 146
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2018, 06:50 PM »
I chose the TS75 over the TS55 - More than 10 years ago.
A bit heavier to handle (and I’m older/retired) -
And yes - It did cost more...
But the TS75 cuts anything - Rips or cross cuts. And... The cuts are excellent!
I’ve used it to rip 8’ X 2-1/2” thick hardwoods - With the original “combo” blade -
Using my 3000mm guide rail. Absolutely no problem.
I’ve never regretted choosing the 75 over the 55.
Go for it. You won’t either!
Like they say: “Bigger is better.” 👍
Joe
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 08:51 AM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 604
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2018, 07:41 PM »
Personally, I based my decision on the fact that I'm not going to rip anything thicker then 1". The TS 55 is currently used solely for ripping. I would/will get the TS 75 if and when I will be faced with a deeper cut and the project justify the acquisition of the TS 75. If you plan to  cut into thicker material, go for the TS 75. The cut quality is excellent with the TS 55 it feels like silk on Baltic Birch ply with zero tear out. I would assume the same quality from the TS 75. Will I get the TS 75? Probably but not as a complementary tool not an upgrade.

About the Ryobi sander, I'd say use it until you get tired to sniff dust  [tongue]. I have a ETS EC 125 and a RO 90, love both and plan to get a larger orbital sander in a near future. Probably the ETS EC 150/5 The dust extraction on Festool sanders is absolutely fantastic. I know other brands like Mirka offer similar if not better result, unfortunately there is no local vendor for those brands and I like to touch and feel the tools I buy, especially when they are close and above 1k$ a piece.

The square, I just bought a WP 1281 a few weeks ago, give me a minute I'll go in the shop to do the flip test..and here the result. Not 100% I would say
Mario

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2382
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2018, 07:52 PM »
I don’t have the 75 to compare cuts with the 55. I get clean cuts with my 55. My guess is the cut quality is the same with both. The difference is the 75 has more power and greater size and weight. If you can, handle both before you buy. I found the 75 to be awkward.

I use both Qwas dogs and Parf dogs. Both are excellent.

The Woodpecker squares are as square as I can test. The framing square is big enough to get an accurate MFT rail square. The legs are about 16” and 26”. I use it for the MFT, table saw, and checking carcasses for square.

The Festool 1400 set comes with accessories that let the router glide on the MFT rail. I’m guessing you could use that feature to route grooves in picture frame sides.

The 125 and 150 refer to the sander pad size. I use only 125 size sanders as I don’t sand large surfaces. The dust collection on the Festool sanders is near perfect.

Festool sells clamps that work well with the MFT. A couple of these would be great for holding wood that you are cutting with the rail.
Birdhunter

Offline Corwin

  • Posts: 2640
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2018, 08:02 PM »
...
The MFT is very accurate.  The only fussiness people usually encounter, once they have mastered squaring the rail, is maintaining square when changing the height of the rail for different stock thicknesses.  Here the slop stop that someone already mentioned can help, though it is not a foolproof solution when adjusting for different thicknesses.

To be clear, the Slop Stop has nothing to do with adjusting the height of the MFT's guide rail support brackets for different thickness material. There can be an issue of throwing the setup out of square when making the height adjustment, but the Slop Stop is for an entirely different issue. The Slop Stop addresses the issue of slop and/or wear between the pin on the top of the front guide rail support bracket and the t-slot in the underside of the guide rail. So, these are two separate issues that can affect the squareness of your setup.
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2513
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2018, 10:28 PM »
I have both versions of the saw. I think that the 55 does slightly better in plywood, but it is negligible at best. I really like the cordless 55 for freedom of using it anywhere without a cord or DC hose. So nice. I would not be without my 75 either as I often cut thicker hardwood like 8/4 maple, walnut and cherry. The 55 could do it with the right blade, but the 75 takes it in one pass and it is a joy to use. The slip clutch on the 75 is also a really nice feature. I do not think you can go wrong with either. Again, if mostly thinner material, I would suggest the 55. If thicker stuff, then the 75 is a better tool. I would recommend going to a dealer and trying them out - feel the heft and how it works with the tracks and MFT to get a better feel.

Of course, you can always take advantage of the 30 day policy too -  buy one and try it and see how it works out (but do not buy added accessories like blades as that is not under the 30 day policy). That way you can at least try it risk free and go from there.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5150
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2018, 10:43 PM »
Let’s try a different tack on this issue. Name the first 5 projects you want to complete after purchasing the Festool tools. This may better emphasize what tools you actually need to purchase.  [smile]

Offline John Stevens

  • Posts: 807
  • Ardmore, PA
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2018, 11:02 PM »

I’m going with the MFT table and likely a CT26.
  ***
How can I build projects without a planer? Am I limited to sheet goods based projects?
***
How difficult is it to setup the MFT/3 table accurately? Are there any accessories that are highly recommended?
***
If you could choose one additional tool for the set up, what would it be (domino, sander, drill, router)?

Hi Jim,
I also don’t have a table saw at this time.  I get by with hand saws, an ATF55 (the predecessor to the TS55), multiple guide rails, and a Festool jig saw.  And I still miss my cheap table saw.  There are some cuts that are easier, safer and more accurate on a table saw.

I find the MFT time-consuming to set up and use, in spite of the huge Woodpecker’s triangle I use to square it. I love my TSO Products GRS-16 guiderail square.  For some operations, like precision cross-cutting to length, the MFT is the better option than the GRS-16 alone, but the GRS-16 can be used on the MFT, and then you need to square nothing.

As far as an additional tool goes, I hate routers because of the dust, noise and setup time.  They can be very useful, but I use my Domino much, much more often.  The festool sanders are great.  I have a 150/3, but the half-sheet sander (which I don’t own) may be a better choice for making furniture.  I own a R0-90 and an RAS 115, but use them more for removing paint and oddball shaping tasks.  I had the old Rotex 150 but sold it.  The new one has better balance and might be a good choice.

Another additional tool I’d strongly recommend is one (or two) ambient air filters.  I own a particle counter, and I am amazed at how well they take dust out of the air, at particle sizes much smaller than they’re rated for.

Your question about limiting yourself to plywood is an interesting one.  I’ve often thought about it.  A few of my favorite projects were made either entirely or mostly from furniture-grade ply.  If you go through the stack, you can find some sheets with very nice figure.  If you are willing to waste material in order to cut the parts so you get symmetrical grain patterns, people won’t necessarily know it’s ply.

Hope this helps.

—John
What this world needs is a good retreat.
--Captain Beefheart

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 720
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2018, 11:56 PM »
For the future you might strongly consider getting a CMS with an insert for the TS75 to use as a table saw, and an insert for the OF1400 router. Watch a few Youtube videos and see if it is something you would be interested in for the future. The TS75 is more functional as a table saw.

Also if you are shop based a CT36 has more holding capacity which means you will go through fewer bags. They are identical other than the size of the tank. They get heavier if you are mobile and having to pick the dust collector up.

Offline Jimxavier

  • Posts: 11
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2018, 01:15 AM »
@Peter C Thanks for the note about the bags, I believe I saw a reusable bag that holds about 500 cycles, how are those?

As for the CMS, I have seen iffy reviews of it especially for the cost.  Obviously, having been trained on Festool since a teen and continuing to use them to the day, I see the value in the system and I believe they are engineered to the highest standards.  Yes they cost more, but I am not so bothered by that given that the quality is apparent, the dust collection is incredible, and they make great use of a small foot print. 

However, the router table - based on reading reviews - is probably the only thing where I would steer away from Festool.  There are some great great router tables in the $500 range, (Incra, Woodcraft, maybe even Bosch, I cant recall what I used).

I have seen the TS75 under the table, the set up looks great, It really does, but if I had the space for that I would just get a SawStop  [wink]  I'm drawn to the MFT / TS set up because of my space constraints.  I live in a dense urban area and have a 1 car garage.  I'm young and plan to remain here for a while.  While the TS MFT set up is great by many standards, in my situation it's really something I'll have to accept and get great at it for the  time  being.


Offline Jimxavier

  • Posts: 11
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2018, 01:19 AM »
@ScotF Thanks Scot,  I am hesitant to go with a battery powered TS55.  Traditionally, corded is always better, but I have seen outstanding reviews of the TS55 and it seems like you are impressed. 

Is it something you think I should consider as my only saw? 

Offline scary

  • Posts: 27
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2018, 01:49 AM »
I had the 75 first. Now its just for solid wood ripping and thicker stuff.
Then i had the 55, which is easier to use generally in every sense and i think has a better cut,especially melamine  but, its pretty weak.
 I just got the the battery powered 55 and man is that thing a blast. The dust bag is almost as good as a vacume ,its way more powerful than the 55,very convenient because of no hose or cord , but weighs as much as the 75.

Offline Jimxavier

  • Posts: 11
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2018, 02:05 AM »
 [eek] @scary Wow! Are you serious?  I mentioned above that I always shied away from cordless tools besides a drill of course due to the lack of perceived power and longevity.  Another user commented above also speaking highly of the TSC, so, I take it you've been happy with yours?

It's better than the TS55? You'd choose it over the TS75?  I guess for the longevity of power, the solution is simple, add more batteries in your rotation, but what about the power that it delivers, is there any noticeable difference between the corded model?

That is fantastic you mentioned the dust extraction is there, too. 

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1553
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2018, 02:15 AM »
I just got the the battery powered 55 and man is that thing a blast. The dust bag is almost as good as a vacume ,its way more powerful than the 55...
That is partially because of a thin 1.8 mm blade. 20% less cutting resistance (on rip cuts) than with 2.2 mm blade on the corded model.
BTW, Mafell, prised for its power, also comes with thin blade. Not a fair comparison.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 02:25 AM by Svar »

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1064
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2018, 02:19 AM »
As quite some write here about 'buy this or that square': When being money constrained you can make one yourself, easily, even without having one as a reference - as long as you have a tracksaw and a sharp pencil. Using a sheet of material that will stay in shape (like multiplex or melamine pressed plywood - dosn't matter as long as you can cut it cleanly) and repeated flip test to tell you how far out you currently are - iterate till being perfectly square... dosn't take that long.

Regarding TS in CMS: I have a TS 75 in a CMS (with the LA-CS fence and the table extensions) and it works OK, in case I wouldn't be that space constrained (and wouldn't have the need to take it with me at times) I would get a real table saw - though as soon as sawstop gets available in Europe I'll be one of the first to get one (as I like my fingers and see this as a kind of insurance cost to make sure I keep them). It's a compromise that works reasonably well, not that real fun to set it (depth, bevels) compared to a dedicated table saw but squareness is ok. Being able to take the TS out of the CMS should I need the higher dept (as my TS 55) with a rail is a plus though, but the conversion takes some time and isn't fun (mainly because of the way the blade guard/extraction is attached). Similar reasoning applies to the CMS OF (router) insert, it's OK for the same reasons (space constraint, occasional need to take it on-site, being able to remove the router in case I need it in mobile) and works well enough for my circumstances.

But for both: in case you have the space dedicated machines (table saw and router table) will likely be not that more expensive and likely give easier adjustment control.

Regarding dust collection I would suggest, given that you have the space, to go for a cyclone add-on instead of the long-life bag - more value it it from a handling standpoint, especially in case you want to use it with a router as these fill bags quickly.

Tools I would highly recommend:
A Domino is a gamechanger, try to fit one into your budget.
A rotex (125 or 150) will likely make you happy as an I-have-only-one sander.

The smaller kerf blade of the TSC should also fit onto the TS 55, upping the perceived power of it.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5150
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2018, 09:45 AM »

That is partially because of a thin 1.8 mm blade. 20% less cutting resistance (on rip cuts) than with 2.2 mm blade on the corded model.


I think you're thinking about the HKC, the TS & TSC both take the same thickness blade, 2.2 mm.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 11:48 AM by Cheese »

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Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2513
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2018, 03:31 PM »
I just got the the battery powered 55 and man is that thing a blast. The dust bag is almost as good as a vacume ,its way more powerful than the 55...
That is partially because of a thin 1.8 mm blade. 20% less cutting resistance (on rip cuts) than with 2.2 mm blade on the corded model.
BTW, Mafell, prised for its power, also comes with thin blade. Not a fair comparison.

The cordless TSC 55 has the same blade as the standard TS55. The HKC is what comes with the thin-kerf blade.

The TSC has oodles of power and is an awesome saw, IMHO.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5150
Re: What are the capabilities of the TS / MFT/3 / CT setup?
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2018, 05:06 PM »
I have both the TS 55 & the TSC 55 and I sincerely feel that the TSC has more muscle. Add the dust bag to it and it’s actually fun to use. No more vacuum hose to wrestle with and it still picks up over 90-95% of the dust generated.

In the 2 years I’ve owned the TSC, I’ve only used the TS once and that’s because it was already in the garage.

Here’s a shot of a 2” white oak slab that I cut to size for a countertop with the TSC.