I'm also in AZ.  I have dealt with and bought from one of the Phoenix area Festool reps, Tim Bonham at Copper Canyon Investments.  He's in the Festool reps list for AZ.  Unfortunately, Tim lives WAY across the Phoenix metro area from me, and I have to pack a lunch to go see him.  It is well over an hour of driving each way.  He has met me half way a couple of times in the past to hand deliver an order.

I have not purchased Festool products from the local retailers, Rockler (recently added), Woodworkers Source and Woodcraft.  Nothing against these retailers, and I buy other products from Rockler and WW Source regularly.  Woodcraft is not close to my home.  However, I get great service from the individual reps.  I suspect the retailer's inventory of consumables and supplies is limited, so there is little reason to run over to the local store.  If you want to put your hands on a tool, no question having a local rep or retailer is the answer.  Generally, the retailer reputation for Festool product knowledge does leave something to be desired, although in fairness, I have not tested that knowledge myself.

For the last few years I have been going to Bob Marino, primarily for consumables and supplies, and a new tool every now and then - how many of these things can one collect???.  Frankly, there is little to differentiate where you buy - the price is the same everywhere and the stuff is shipped, arriving in a few days.  Bob is notorious for excellent customer service, and that has certainly been my experience with him.  Bob will bend over backwards, as the saying goes, to send me exactly what I need, when I need it.  No tax and no shipping on orders over $150 - which is way too easy to achieve. 

I would not hesitate to buy Festool from McFeely's, especially if I happen to be placing an order for other products there.  I use McFeely's for screws and fasteners and have had nothing but good service from them.  I bought a Systainer and an assortment of screws from McFeely's not long ago.

And there is always Festool-USA - can't go wrong there.

   Bob, with Rockler and Woodcraft and other big retailers getting in on the act, with less than knowledgeable sales staff, I don't like that at all. I'd rather you (and other knowledgeable dealers) be "over-represented" on forums so we don't loose you guys.
 

Bob, I understand your modesty but Brice has a good point. Even though you are not my ISA I appreciate the time and energy you bring to this group and your customers. In a sense, this repalaces the traditional marketing done by the Rocklers and Woodcrafts of the world who use shotgun fliers. I was just going through a handful of posts and was thinking about commenting in regards to the overall quality of information that is being exchanged on this forum. It may be my imagination but I believe the dissimination of useful, practical, and innovative technique has recently reached a new level. I would like to think the whole forum has attained a higher level of maturity and focus. You have always purposely stayed on the edges of involvement here, which shows an extraordinary amount of class. So let the accolades come as they have been earned honestly. The energy and time and integrity you show here is your calling card. I believe all of us appreciate that more than a mass mailing.

Bob, When one is selling a good product and at the same time will go the extra nine yards to give service to match or exceed the products' quality, word is going to get around. 

In my book, you are not, or have not, been over represented here.  There is no better advertising than word of mouth.  Maybe in your case, it is "word of print"  We would all have a tough time shouting your praises all the way from, say, Connecticut to California without the medium of the internet. (we all have to have our say, as it is known fact that you talk too fast).   

Relax and enjoy, my friend
Tinker

Dan I agree, I come from a Independent back round, having owned my own successful business for many years. I was in the Restaurant business for over 18 years, had a construction business (metal building), and a Mini Storage business. Currently I'm retired but after spending most of my life in the service industry I seem to always like the small business man. I found you have to take the extra steps to make people happy when your small, overly so when you live in a small community. My restaurant has been closed for 7-8 years and I still get bugged to open an other one up. In my time in business I always tried to look at it from the customers point of view. I would rather lose money on a trans action than make a customer unhappy. I always tried to give my customers something good to talk about, served very large, hot, very taste meals. Always tried to give good value in both product and even more in service. I was always the most expensive in town, yet always the busiest. I did not use paid advertising just word of mouth and great large quantities of food. Business always seemed simple to me (Offer a great product at a reasonable price, and back it up with great service). The older I get the more I appreciate when people follow these retailing ideals. Thanks again for your comments. Bru

          I happened to buy my ts-55 from Woodcraft just because the employee loved it, used it himself, and it fit exactly what i needed it for ( I needed to rip down 5' by 5' 13 ply baltic birch). That is the only reason I bought it was because of him, I have never seen any Festool products before, and had no knowledge until then. After purchasing this product, I loved it, looked for more information on all Festool products, found this forum, and I am hooked. Now after all that said, I would probably order my next purchase from Bob, or Mcfeeleys, as to not pay sales tax.

I purchased my drill and sander from Woodcraft here in AZ because they are where I saw the Festool products first.  I have gone in to the store and asked questions about the Domino and the sales staff was not very well educated.  In the future I will probably purchase from someone else (ie;Bob).  I intend on getting several of the Festool products because like everyone else I'm hooked and I love to buy tools.  My wife says I'm a tool collector.

I agree that if you are going to sell a product you better know inside and out.  Especially with the amount of information you can get from the internet these days.  This forum has been a great source for me, I have learned so much since I found it.

My preference would be to do business with a small company over a chain like Woodcraft or Rockler.

Being a greenhorn to the Festool family of owners, I spent much time researching the tools and distribution model that Festool has in place today and came away with the opinion that Festool has done something very smart and very terrible at the same time...Festool is embracing the likes of Rockler and Woodcrafter pursuing wider distribution while not having adequately trained salespeople to represent Festool.  I can only guess that Festool is relying on the Festool distributors like Bob Marino and others to educate the customer after the first sale.  Given Festool's abiltity to maintain the retail list pricing at all points of distribution, why would they care who sells their stuff? Unfortunately, from my perspective, Festool is compromising their early adopter ISA partners that built the Festool name brand loyalty in favor of wider distribution.  This is a business decision that is made by many companies trying to gain wider marketshare and it is understandable.

From my personal experience, my first Festool purchase came from one of the big box stores but I would not be inclined to give them any additional business.  The salespeople were not knowledgeable in the least and kept referring to the Festool catalog to answer basic questions that should have been known.  This seems to be a common behavior noted by more than one forum member that has had to opportunity to shop at Woodcrafter or Rockler.  For my money, I would like to identify a local "Bob Marino" in my town that would welcome a mutually beneficial business relationship.  My message to Festool is do a better job of requiring your distributors to know your products.  Really know them well.  This will lead to better long-term profits and customer relationships all around.

I must chime in here as well. I have primarily dealt with Bob although I have had the pleasure of emailing and buying some of the festool junkie stuff from Timmy C. In each case the service, the level of knowledge, and almost more importantly than the first two reasons, their love of their products has been exemplary. I personally find it much easier and much more interesting to buy from someone who has such a commitment to their products as it almost always carries through on their service and everything else. Fred

I was by my local San Diego Rockler just to pick up plastic drawer runners(Rockler = misc. cabinet stuff) and was amazed to see the complete Festool line-up. I started talking to some of the staff and they seemed very annoyed by the very presence the Festool tools taking up precious floor space that could have been better occupied by a Jet bandsaw or something. I laughed and walked out.

Hi Eiji,

I'm also in San Diego, and I had a similar experience. They're nice guys at Rockler, but it's clear that they don't really get how much better the Festools are than other brands. I spent some time once showing them (the Rockler guys) some of the capabilities of the MFT, saws, routers and sanders, but I don't think it really resonated. On the other hand, I purchased my Festools at TH&H (off Miramar Rd). This was before Rockler carried them. Tom Drinnan (I think that's his name) knows more about Festools than the Rockler guys, and will help you figure out what you need. I'm happy to keep giving them my business (several thousand $$ so far). Too bad about Rockler - they're missing an opportunity to build a client base, and Festool is missing a lot of potential customers. I think that Rockler needs to sell the "system" aspect of Festools more... Why buy just one..?

Poto

For a good dealer, my vote must go to Eagle Tools in Los Angeles. They have a room dedicated to Festool products, and I don't believe there's a single item that's not on display. Their inventory also seems to be pretty large. While Raul Dena is the only guy I've worked with there so far, I find him to be extremely knowledgeable and enthusiastic about Festool products, and very willing to take the time to answer questions and give advice on every purchase.

The first Festool demo I attended was given by Allen Kensley (Sales Manager Southwest) and I was really impressed with this guy. I hung around for quite a while and watched him answer the same questions and go step by step through the same procedures over and over without the slightest loss of patience. And apparently there is very little that he doesn't know about the products and how to use them. A very good sales rep, that sure has cost me a lot of money.


John

  I'm curious to see how many of the bigger retailers will stick with Festool, if they don't get a good return on their investment in floor space, and advertising, how can they? Also, I think Festool is going to have a new batch of customers that don't know they should have received good customers service when buying these tools. People may go to the big store to buy Festool's well known products like the TS saws and the Domino but... These new customers, because of poor service and lack of knowledgeable sales staff at the big stores, may not be will to spend more money on Festool products.... Time will tell.

Dave I'm glad this thread helped someone. I hope it helped others. Thanks to all! Bru

I was amazed when Festool signed up Woodcraft and Rockler.  I buy from both and like them, but I didn't and don't see how their business models are compatible with Festool.

In North America Festool products are unusual and require real selling knowledge to be presented effectively.  Festool is a real opportunity for the dedicated one-man show.  For a larger (but single location) operation, one or several Festool specialists can be trained and the result can be satisfactory.

I don't see how a large chain can fit the requirement for in-depth product knowledge into their business model, which necessarily looks more like Radio Shack's than Tiffany's.  Chains simply don't put the money into training, in part because they have (and expect) significant employee turnover.

My impression is that the large chains also expect and depend on a high percentage of their employees being older and part-time.  It's how they get guys that know something about woodworking.  Some of them know a great deal, but what they know is unlikely to include Festool.  And a part-time employee is unlikely to be extensively trained.

A chain of franchises is even worse, since the franchisor must convince the owners of individual stores to commit to significant and unexpected investment in both training and inventory for these unusual products.


One of the symptoms of inadequate selling is the question we get on FOG, all too often, about the funny noise a free-running TS55 or TS75 makes.  This seems like something that should be explained to the buyer when they get the saw--I certainly would.  Imagine how many TS55s would be returned if the big orange box sold them...


Ned

[/quote]

Ned and others,

I agree with your assessments, but I think Festool is working hard to get the larger retailers up to snuff with the tools, though admittedly is way more difficult to accomplish that goal for your stated reasons.

Bob

I bought my first Festool from my local Woodcraft Store (Forest Park, Ohio).  They were EXCELLENT, (Kudos really to Dusty) spent a lot of time with me showing me how it all worked together, gave me a chance to try the sanders out in their classroom (I bought one then) and gave me a lot of extra literature to go with it.  They made my purchase a lot easier.

Santa bought my TS 55 at Rockler in Springdale, Ohio.  I found their staff to be pretty knowledgable, but when Santa went to make the purchase, she didn't know the fence came with it and she got the one guy who didn't know the tools either. When I went to collect my fence and I showed them the receipt I got the fence and an apology.  It was no big deal.

I'd buy tools from either dealer.

Steve

Many posts here have given a great deal of credit to dealers for their quick service.  One thing to note here is that this would not be possible in many cases if Festool USA was not also very prompt in processing your order -- it takes both parties to get the job done well.  Festool USA certainly does their best at this. 
 
 Corwin,

 Absolutey correct. Festool does a great job getting em' shipped.

 Bob

Bill and Darcy from FestoolSupply were one of the original Festool dealers in USA. I cannot recommend them highly enough especially if you are in the West coast.

What is most impressive, is Bill speaks from experience. He is too humble to "toot his own horn". Yet, Festool engineers have flown out to his shop to study his creative ideas. This speaks well for Festool that they listen to the PROs and incorporate what works into future releases.

I can also speak well of Eli at Woodcraft Seattle. He was the one pushing me to go with Festool. However, it was visiting Bill's shop that got me believing.

PS. I have not dealt with Bob (I do visit his website regularly). It's too convenient for me to visit FestoolSupply since they're on my commute home.
PS2. I dislike buying Festool from Rockler since most all the reps have not been trained. I also heard they have to pay for their own training, only the manager gets Festool training.
PS3. Bill also has said that having Rockler and Woodcraft selling has increased his business since he carries most everything and people need help-training to use the tools.

Timmy c is "a freak of nature" when it comes to customer service and knowledge, not just Festool either.  When you ask him a question he answers with a confidence that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling inside and you know you are on the right path.  Don't tell big brother but Tim will tell you what you don't need based on your work style or current set up.  The guy has his own t shirts for crying out loud.  Oh yeah and Tim is a wicked cool dude to which is nice these days.  Junkie for life.

In the good old days  when Festool USA would still ship to Canada, I purchased Festool tools and supplies from:

1) Claude Ouellette who was a Festool ISA located near Ottawa.  When Hafele took over, Claude was dropped by Festool and I regard this as a shameful move on Festool's part.  Claude did know the product line and he helped my both on the phone and via email to make my very first Festool purchases.

2) McFeely?s.  This was simple purchase of a jig saw that I had researched in advance, so required no expertise on their part. 

3) Bob Marino.  I met Bob on the internet shortly after making my initial Festool purchases and most subsequent Festool purchases were through him  (a few were through Claude).   All my dealings with Bob have been great  and I can't add anything to the nice things that folks have said about him.

Since the Festool USA ban on sales shipped to Canada  , I have purchased Festool tools and supplies from:

1) Bob Marino.  I have had tools and supplies shipped to friends in the USA.  From there, they eventually find their way to me.  By the way, one of my friends subsequently bought a couple of Festool tools after seeing mine.

2) Marc St Pierre of Hafele Canada.  Marc is the refreshing exception  to the abysmal  job that Hafele is doing in Canada.  Marc does know the Festool product line.  Last April we had an "event" in my shop where Marc spent about four hours demonstrating the complete Festool line to about 20 fellow woodworkers.  Through Marc, I upgraded from a AFT55 circular saw to a TS75 and I purchased a second (smaller) multi-function table.

Message to Festool management follows.

Not surprisingly, there seem to be some broad conclusions one can draw from the many and varied comments in this thread:

Almost everyone that buys Festool products from what Festool used to call an ISA is pretty happy, and some are ecstatic.

Almost everyone that buys (or tries to buy) Festool products from a large, national retail chain is not so happy, and some are grumpy.

There are exceptions noted in some of the posts here, but I think my conclusions are reasonably fair and accurate.  Hmmm.

Bob,

My take in Woodcraft/Rockler Festool relationship is some buyers need to see/feel the tool before buying it.  I can make a lot of research, and start liking a tool but sometime it is something so abstract like the MFS or the MFT that you need to see it in action.

I also use Woodcraft to buy consumables even I have to pay sales tax, it is lower than UPS/DHL ground services fee.  Also when I need a consumable, I need it now.

Other than that I agree with you 100%.  In Houston we had a young sales associate, he was very knowledgeable in Festool, he left woodcraft and they don't know anything about festool anymore.

Frank and David,

I'd bet that at least Christian O. of FestoolUSA is "listening."  But is he free to act accordingly?  Festool central management/ownership may be pushing to maximize revenue NOW.  You know, the USA MBA Harvard/Wharton Wall Street approaches which inculcate in their students a focus on the short term, more outlets, more marketing efforts, more stocking dealers, with the expectation of ramping up sales and production and more sales.  I personally hope they aren't doing that, and hope they stick to a much longer view in their planning.  Like many others, I have found dealing with knowledgeable ISAs has been most helpful to me.  When I have purchased from a local stocking dealer, with few exceptions (for some consumables or a couple of clamps), it has been connected with special demonstration events at which a Festool factory representative showed what the tools could do, and at which he either answered all questions from personal knowledge or immediately called Festool to get correct answers (like whether the edge guard would fit my early model RO 125 - it won't, the housing is different).  The last tool show with factory representative demos I went to was most interesting.  After the basic demos of the TS 55, 1400 router, Ro 150, with MFT and CT 22 E, I asked the Festool rep if he had an MFS and if he could show it to me.  He said he did in his car, and after completing his normal demos, he retrieved a MFS 200 set.  Soon after he started to show me some of what could be done with it, including making an inlay, the crowd of interested observers quickly became much larger than it ever was throughout the preceding 4 hours.  And that sparked even more interest in other Festool products.

Dave R.

It's amazing to me how many people (including me) would rather buy tools from Bob Marino than in a store.  You would think that people would prefer things like instant gratification, ability to handle and try the tools before buying, face-to-face relationships, etc.  It is a great compliment to Bob that he has actually managed to turn that situation around so that many or most of us prefer to do business long-distance and applaud the greater customer service we get.

Another exceptional source for those of you in Northern California is Japan Woodworker.  Bill is extremely knowledgeable, friendly and helpful about every aspect of Festool.

(I used to live not too far away and still visit there occasionally myself.)

I love instant gratification.  In fact, I have been known to pay a little extra to get the stuff right away.  When I purchased my Sawstop, it felt like the longest week in my life.  It was shipped cross country because the store did not have it in stock.  I didn't even have an issue that I had to pay an $150 to get it shipped to my house.

OK, so I believe this post was a bit unfair to my local store, but it does bother me when you walk into a shop and the employees, including the manager, have no idea what they are trying to sell.  Instant gratification is nice, but it's sometimes spoiled when you buy something due to employees recommendation, only to find out they were completely wrong.

V/R,
S

Frank,

 I think Festool is  listening and is working to correct the situation. But with the number of dealers coming on board so quickly, may be a bit of a task.



 Bob

I would like to put my .02 in from the Canadian perspective. Hafele Canada has only one sales type in Ontario who actually uses the tools. The guys out west have just vague ideas about them. If I need real info I call up Bill @ Festoolsupply. He is helpful, uses the tools day in and day out. Jerry Work is just a huge help. I know for a fact that a major Canadian retailer and manufacture of woodworking tools would just love to sell Festool. They have dedicated woodworkers on staff, bend over backwards to keep their customers statisfied and stores right across the country. Plus they have deep pockets to actually stock the acessories. I am having to wait for a hose garage, panther blade and vac handle to come out of the states! As a group I sure hope that those of you guys south of the 49th keep pushing Festoolusa to keep the marketing plan the way it was. These are NOT B&D to be sold at big box stores.
Thanks for all the help that the people on this forum give to the new guy.
Steve Birmingham

Except for the Kapex, Jim.  I've been asking for months and months and . . . NO KAPEX!  (Of course, it's not actually Bob's fault that he can't deliver a product that doesn't quite exist in this part of the universe).

 

I first learned about Festool at the Rockler in SD, and ended up buying the MFT, Trion, Rotex150 and TS55 from them. I'd seen the display on several prior visits but didn't really know what it was until Mike, the manager, walked me through the line. The presentation was clearly intended to make a sale, but then again that's what a store is for, and the information was very helpful and gave me confidence to plunk down a lot of cash at one go. While we were talking, someone came in for an interview with him, and he was so generous with his time with me that I was actually the one getting uneasy that he had someone waiting so long. In the end, it was clear that he was gonna prioritize a customer over an interviewee. As a new user of Festool and not having done woodworking since jr high shop class, I didn't have any challenging questions. So, I bought on the concept of the integrated system and the professed quality of the tools. Since then, I've learned a lot more thru using the tools and websites such as this one, and nothing I've learned has conflicted with anything Mike has said. He's also been very helpful to this newbie in demonstrating tools and suggesting ways of using them. many suggestions are over my head, until i get home and come across some problem at the bench and remember what he said. I think the prior posts may be correct that Mike is really the go-to guy for Festool at that shop, but that's fine. he always seems to be around. Someone who really knows Festool and has a difficult problem may be disappointed with shops like Rockler, but it works for me. The one time I went into a Tool Depot the staff seemed so surly I got the creeps and left.  I didn't even know they carried Festool. And I didn't know about the other local dealers until reading this thread just a few minutes ago.

Since my original purchase, I've bought the OF1400 and various accessories thru McFeely's, whom I can't fault at all. Fast ship, and the no tax thing is really appealing. If I need something right away, or I need to touch and hold before buying, I'll buy locally. but if I know what I want then I'll always look to buy online first.

I'll bet Tom Silva's OF1400 is metric and it hasn't stopped him.

I'd done my homework and knew what I wanted so walked out of my local Woodcraft store with my first Festool and a smile on my face.  The smile was because I had a new Festool in my hands, not because the salesman had made me feel good about the purchase. In fact, I knew more than anyone in the store and I hadn't even seen a single Festool in person.  All the sales staff could do was show me a photo copied spec sheet.  One salesman even made a big point to say he couldn't understand why anyone would pay such a ridiculous price for a complicated tool in a fancy plastic case, when they had such good prices on Porter Cable.  I thought surely, this couldn't be indicative of Woodcraft in general so a few weeks later I visited the other Woodcraft here in town.  Boy was I disappointed.  The three salesmen there said that they had been stocking Festool for several months but only one guy there new how they worked and that I'd have to come back next Monday when he'd be there.  That was over a year ago and they still only have one guy that knows anything about Festool and I get the opinion that he'd be a lot happier if the Festool display would just go away.  Despite this experience, and not wanting to wait for UPS, I bought my next Festool from Woodcraft.  These guys are the best anti-sales, sales-force a company could ask for. 

When I found out our local Rockler was stocking Festool I hoped they would raise the sales staff bar and give Woodcraft a little competition.  Silly me!  They know (and care) even less than the guys at Woodcraft. 

Thankfully, I took the recommendations of many of you here at FOG and called Bob Marino.  WOW!  What a breath of fresh air.  He took time to answer all of my questions, never once made me feel like I stupid, and busted his tail to make sure I got my order quickly.  Now, if Bob only sold washers, dryers, TVs and car parts!  I'll still go to Rockler and Woodcraft to "see" Festools but I'll only purchase them from Bob.


As for QWAS posting: " The USA needs more Festool sales to get the corporate attention, and to get our tools stamped in imperial rather than metric." I disagree.  I must admit when I bought my first Festool, I didn't like everything being metric.  I had plenty of high quality measuring devices that were imperial and considered the metric measurements on Festools to be a nuisance.  I eventually lost (actually my wife permanently borrowed) my best tape measure so I found myself with an excuse to go to my local Woodcraft store.  I discovered they were selling a new metric/imperial tape made by FastCap so I decided to try it out.   The more I used it, the more I found out that working in metric was much easer than figuring fractions and using metric measurements in my project plans yielded better accuracy with the finished project.  Now, a little more than a year later, I use metric measurements 80% of the time. In fact, I don't have any problem going back and forth between metric and imperial measurements.  I hope Festool keeps shipping metric tools to the US.  I'd hate to have to revert back to using my calculator for converting fractions. 

For those of you who don't want to use metric measurements because you can't find metric rulers I'd suggest you check GEI International at:  http://www.geionline.com/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=4420301&showprevnext=1
They manufacture stainless steel rulers in various lengths and in metric/English.  I've got several of their rules and must say they are much higher quality that anything I've found locally.  I don't understand why local stores that are selling Festool don't make an effort to stock some metric measuring tools.  Don't buy the metric rules that Woodcraft sells.  I purchased two different sets and both were curved, not straight!  The guys at Woodcraft even admitted that they'd gotten several sets back because of this.

I had good luck at Micheals (Craft Store) in the drafting section. 300mm straight edge was $9.00.

Nickao,

While I can appreciate your comments regarding S&H, I do feel compelled to point out that our minimum buy for free S&H is $150 and not $199.

Seems like I never have trouble coming up with a $150 order for Festool.   However, free shipping on anything Festool is a good thing to know about from AceTool Online - applies within the 48 states.  Here's the page:

http://www.acetoolonline.com/Festool-tool-company-s/2017.htm

Amen.  I am not one who believes that something is better just because it came from outside the USA, but let's face it:  the metric system is easier to use, which translates directly to fewer mistakes and better quality.

Many of us on FOG are over 50 (or 60, or...) but we all had the flexibility and brains to buy those odd but better tools from Germany, so none of us should have more than temporary trouble making the jump to a better measurement system.

The worst thing you can do is try to work in a mixture of measurement systems.

The best thing is to measure the inputs (that space the builtin bookcase is going in, the thickness of sheet goods) in metric and work pure metric after that.

Try it.  Give it two weeks shop time.  Then tell me you want to go back.   

Ned

While being 31 probably makes me a youngster around here, I'm going to have to say that I think working in a mixture of units works best for me. I'm starting my shop from scratch, and leaning heavily on plans from others to get me more familiar with how to set things up. While they are almost always imperial, I'll just make a first pass with a calculator to scratch in the metric translations before I begin. Then, I'll use some tools with imperial measurements and some tools (usually with green on them) with metric measurements, and I'll have my measurement in front of me. When I need to figure something, like divide a measure in thirds, I find it much easier to do it with the metric measurement. When I need to estimate something, like how far apart a regularly spaced thing should be, I think better in inches (so far).

I am trying to lessen the number of times I have to do conversions, and I wonder if it is possible to get something like a benchtop tablesaw (like the rigid or bosch that Matthew reviewed) with a metric scale. To link this back to the topic of this thread, I'd like a dealer who could line up tools like that with built in metric scales. It would certainly make good marketing sense for festool dealers to at least carry some of the aforementioned metric conversion aids!

I loved that place. Where do you live? We lived on Walgrove Ave. in Mar Vista. You ever go to the old tool sales there?

No no. Anderson Ply. Washington and Sepulveda? They have an old tool swap in the parking lot 4 times a year. They have a kickass molding shop now too, back under the bridge.

i live in malibu and if you are in anderson and talk festool i have met you,,,,,i am in there all the time and am kind of the festool guru there even though i do not work there..if only i got a cut of the tools a help them sell...and yes i go to the swap meets just to see steam power guy.

Hafele Canada - specifically Sean in Burlington, Ontario.

I'm in Ontario, Canada, and I bought my first tool (Domino) through AceToolsOnline, based on price.  I had thoroughly researched the tool though, and knew what I wanted.  Ace was good service and price, however after paying the shipping, duty and taxes, I didn't save anything over buying from Hafele.

Since then, I've been fueling my Festool addiction with Hafele.  I have to admit that it took a couple of phone calls initially to determine who was the knowledgeable Festool sales person at Hafele, but since then I've had great service.  I've bought an inordinate amount of Festool tools and accessories in the last 4 months.

There was an issue with one order that was resolved immediately.  A quick email to Sean in Hafele's  Burlington office, and he expedited the replacement to me immediately, and I had it on the jobsite the next day.  Great service!  Fair prices (As far as Festool products go!) and Free shipping if you use the ground service.

Steve,
Do you know something we don't?
You can't just throw that out there and leave us dangling man.

I almost forgot, you could only wish that everyone you dealt with was as pleasant as Timmy c.  Besides being the "Decider" he really knows his festools and I have found his advice has been very beneficial.  He's also a wicked cool dude, which is nice.

I put in an order before the increase at the beginning of the month to TimmyC.  I have dealt with him before and he helped me out.  I received the items fast and he let me know that one of the items was coming from Festool directly.  He has always answered any of my questions really fast.  Good service and I will go back to him!

Thanks for the info Steve.
As enthusiastic as Sean and Ryan are about the line, I don't think Hafele Canada is really the right vehicle to promote Festool here. Firstly they deal to companies not individuals. Their on line catalog is a bear to negotiate, there is almost no information outside of part number, item name and price available, except for an on line brochure. They don't carry the full range that is available from Festool USA. Common items have to specially ordered.
While they are a regular presence at trade shows, I'm not aware of their bringing this line to any of the public woodworking venues.

Lee Valley's excellent customer service reputation, and the fact they have a presence coast to coast would make them a good fit in my estimation.
Hopefully this will happen soon, or at the very least, lift the shipping restrictions from South of the border.
Jim

It sounds like Hafele is not so much selling Festool as making the products available for order, if you the customer know what you want.

I have not been to a Lee Valley store, but their US catalog and response to my orders gives me a very high opinion of them.  Of all multiple-location retailers in North America, I immediately thought of Lee Valley as a good fit for Festool.

As I've mentioned before, those outside Canada could benefit from a Festool-Lee Valley connection.  If anyone can design and sell new and different accessories for Festool products, it's Lee Valley-Veritas. 

Nonetheless, Lee Valley is a large enterprise and it will be difficult for them to get their people trained to sell Festool effectively.  By contrast, for example, 100% of Bob Marino's staff knows the tools and their use very well 

I sincerely hope that, in addition to Lee Valley, Festool's Canadian marketing plans will have room for ISAs- individuals and small enterprises that can add enthusiasm, depth of product knowledge, and the ability to address specific trades on their own terms.

Ned

As a customer who has dealt with McFeely's for more than twenty years, I am surprised to see your post.  I would suggest that you contact them directly and ask to speak to a supervisor or higher.

I have had nothing but stellar service from every Festool dealer I have dealt with including the one you have had issues with.

Peter

Several Festool dealers have treated me very well. I have never purchased Festools from a dealer who I felt was indifferent or who attempted to seem knowledgeable while forgetting teachings during dealer class.

My primary Festool dealer is Eagle Tools of Los Angeles, owned by Jesse Barragán, who has been one of my favorite woodworking experts for about 30 years. It also happens that his brother Ruben has been my go-to industrial/commercial plumbing contractor as long. My first sip of the green Kool-Ade back in 2006 was shortly after Jesse opened his current location including a massive inventory of Festools.

My memory is that in early 2006 Anderson Plywood of Culver City and Austin Hardwood and Hardware of Santa Ana were already Festool dealers. I had been buying cabinet material from them for quite some time. They are lovely folks and have excellent Festool specialists on staff, but I do not remember every buying any thing Festool from them.

Currently there are many Festool dealers in Los Angeles and Orange Counties. Except for the three I have mentioned I have not encountered anyone working for the other stores who convinced me they could safely plug in a Festool.

Allen Kingsley is the Southern California Festool rep I have known the longest and trust like a brother I like. I know I met Allen when he worked for Anderson Plywood, but it could be that by 2006 Allen had joined Festool as a rep.

Several folks told me about Jay Andrews out in Palm Desert, CA a few miles east of Palm Springs. Originally Jay and I had communicated because he owns a very sophisticated woodworking shop. Before I opened my own shop I rented space from people like Jay, and I sourced specialized services. Then on FOG I read that In Touch International was opening The Festool Store in Palm Desert. I sent them an e-mail and that was how I learned this is another Jay Andrews business. I have attended several events at their marvelous store, still devoted to Festool. All of their staff have been trained by Steve Bace and could work as Festool reps. They have an excellent website besides the physical store, so sometimes they have been able to UPS me supplies very fast. "Aldo" is the primary FOG contact for The Festool Store. A super fellow.

On-line at a greater distance is Tom Bellemare in Austin, TX owner of Tool Home. Tom sells a lot of Festools and knows them well enough he could work in my shop if I could afford him. He also sells many other lines of quality tools. On those rare occasions when I run out of something Festool which is not in stock at Eagle Tool or The Festool Store, my next phone call is to Tom.

Bob Marino has also given me good service the couple of times I ordered from him. Because I run a California based business, I have to pay use tax if sales tax was not added to invoices. Therefore it actually costs me some accounting time when sales tax is not part of the dealer's invoice. I appreciate that Tom B understands this and is willing to collect the California sales tax.

A retired fellow in a Festool class I attended was then working part-time for a chain which sells Festools. That fellow knows Festools, but the same cannot be said for anyone working in branches of that same chain where I have shopped. Heh, I own a large and prosperous cabinet shop, so I have accounts with a whole lot of cabinet hardware wholesale suppliers. Trust me, I can detect BS a mile away, so such chains do not impress me.

On a trip in late 2010 I had a free day. I also happened to be in need of a Tru-32 tape measure, the ones with metric and Imperial, plus a blue dot every 32mm. So when I saw a store selling Festools I figured I would look around and by the tape measure. Well, yes they had a few Festools, but none set up for demonstration. They sold large woodworking machines. A sales person was explaining a bandsaw to a couple. Nothing being said about the saw made any sense. I was the only other non-employee in the store and that day I was wearing a suit. After a half hour no sales person offered to help me.

I waited at the counter until another sales person approached me. I asked about Festools and was told the person selling those was away. So I asked about the tape measure. Although there was a display of Tru tape measures on the wall behind the counter, the sales person talking to me had to asked two other sales folks, despite my pointing to what I wanted. Apparently none of them knew where to find anything or the features of any of their inventory. Nevertheless I did buy the Tru-32 from them that day and vowed I would never spend a dime with that store or others in the small chain ever again.

Dealers like that must make it frustrating for jay, Jesse, Tom and Bob!

Usually in this case, service comes down to an individual. That said, training and management needs to ensure individuals reflect the right principles and values.

A short related story ...

I was quite a distance from my local dealer and drove by a tool shop displaying a Festool sign (this was in the inner western suburbs of Sydney, Australia - my local is Northern Abrasives in Brookvale). The tool shop in question had a large display of CXS ... It caught my eye as I was browsing and on of the sales people called out from behind the counter something like "great deal those, exclusive to our store, won't be repeating and they're the last ones" ... I thanked him and walked out. All the moron needed to do was get off of his fat backside and walk over to enquire if I needed assistance - but instead he tried to con me.

Normally I would go to the effort of contacting the store manager and give them some feedback to hopefully improve their service ... but on this occasion there were two people sitting, doing absolutely nothing, behind the counter. Maybe driving a new Audi and wearing a suit put the guy off his game - their loss.

When I read subject line of this post I was not even sure it should be here/allowed.. When I read the thread I see it's need and appreciative that FOG members are levelheaded and really bring up real issues. Other forum sites would get ugly when a topic like this comes up.

I do have to say that Rockler was my and my business partners first experience with a Festool dealer that had started from some research online from the search my B - partner only found Rockler as the only dealer on the web the Twin-cities Metro Market.  For the kind of money Festool costs, the first time we were thinking about purchasing we felt we had to touch the product before dropping the $$$. It was our fault that we had not done as much research as we could of, but we had done as much as we do for any other product thought from our readings that a company like Festool would only be sold by well qualified dealers.

Boy-oh-boy were were wrong....  If we had not later found the Bloomington, MN Woodcraft carried Festool.... I don't know that we would have purchased more Festool.

Rockler's HQ is in MN and it ticks us off that a MN company is as lame as it is. It also ticks us off that Woodcraft had to do damage control to build back what the Rocker employees had torn down....   Such as... "just buy the Fein vac don't waste your money on a Festool...it is just as good, but it is quieter and they are cheaper than the over-priced Festool" 

If I owned Festool USA Rockler would not be a dealer.

But that is my opinion.  As someone the helped build Best Buy from a regional company to a few billion dollar world wide company

Cheers,
Steve

An interesting read----I've had mixed responses from stores such as Rockler and Woodcraft and of course great service from Bob.  I believe we tend to expect that all employees of stores should be experts in all items sold by companies such as Rockler and Woodcraft - which is probably beyond reasonable expectations.  This is no different than in any other industry.  I work for a major Defense/Aerospace contractor, in which you will find individuals within any specialty which have varying degrees of knowledge on any one subject.  I lead small teams when my company is pursuing potential large new business contracts which requires a high degree of knowledge, many individuals who on a day-to-day basis can do great jobs, may fail when filling a roll on our teams.  I look at the stores such as Rockler and Woodcraft the same way.  These stores may have only 4-5 regular employees - is it feasible to have someone thoroughly knowledgeable in all lines of tools or woodworking experience - probably not.  If you have a stores such as Anderson's plywood, I would expect to find employees with higher skill levels in the knowledge of the tools. I have gone into both Rockler and Woodcraft and walked around without ever being acknowledged myself and have some of the same experiences Carroladams has experienced- extremely frustrating.  I believe this is more the case of the individual employee's attitudes than the stores owners or managers.

How I became involved the Festool slippery slope, was on an extended business trip in Michigan (i live in Redondo Beach, California).  Needed a break out of the office on a Saturday morning and went to a near by Rockler store to see their demonstration.  The individual demonstrating the Kreg Pocket hole system was (my guess) retired and working in the store part time.  After he completed the demo, I was discussing what he might suggest for an upgrade for a table saw.  His comment was "why a table saw, why not a Festool TS55".  Knowing that i was from out of state, and wouldn't be buying from them, he spent the next 1/2 hour with me showing me how he used HIS ts 55.  The result of that was the beginning of my slide.  The Rockler store by my home carries a small (limited) display of Festool products and there is some limitation on the employees knowledge of the line however, whenever I've wanted to test a tool, i was always accommodated.

That said, rather long winded, if your going to deal with business that probably cater to mostly hobbyist, you will get a mixed bad of service.  when you deal with highly specialized companies such as Anderson or other similar companies you should expect a higher level of service.  I'm sure many people here on the FOG have experience trying to hire individuals with a high degree of knowledge in there respective fields, how easy is that to do?

Truck90278,

I would like to reflect on two of your comments.

I have only had one order from Bob, it was for 4 Qwas dogs and 2 Rail dogs. about a $100. I had checked via a call to Bob on the product and was told it would be in and shipped in a couple of days.... The order then was made online.... after about 10 days and had not seen it or gotten an email I called and left a message wondering when I would get them. I got a prompt reply...with a another in-stock date... well played that game about twice more. I was told that the supplier was not able to meet there delivery dates....

I understand that things happen. What I did not appreciate was I had to make contact to find out what was going on every time, never did a get a proactive email or call telling me that things were slow.

When I did finely get the product, one rail dog didn't let the bolt go fully into it.... so had to wait for another to be set and he did pay for return postage.

Just have to say never had this lack of proactive info from a supplier before or ever received any product that did not work from any other vendor.  I have had shipping damage stuff before, but that was not the issue here... so.... 

Will I order from Bob again... not sure... a quick phone reply when I have called, is one thing but getting the product when it is promised and in a working state is also important.

I do understand that retailers are at mercy or their supplier....but as a consumer that is not my problem.... Just make proactive contact with me and I will stand by you.....but make me call several times to find out what is going on .... I don't call that great service.  He made it right...but weeks after it was suppose to have been there when I ordered it.

As a former retail exec, I know what manufactures can and do require of a company/store to allow their product to be placed into and sold by a company at each store. Reality is not all stores may be able to sell the product as they don't meet standards.

Rockler's name has come up too many times here on FOG, for me to not believe that my Business partner and my, 10ish experiances is not a just us......but really is a Rockler company issue. Too many people here have talked about a problem with Rockler's ablitity to understand and present the product.

It is not my place to ask why does Festool USA sell at Rockler?  But I would rather drive farther to get what I need/want from a knowledge dealer.


Cheers,
Steve

I both like and dislike Amazon.  As a Prime member I get 2 day free shipping which is great.  I have their credit card and most small purchases can be paid for with 'points.'  Downside is they show a lot of stuff on there website as "in stock" but its not.  A couple of times I have ordered and a week later got an email saying they were having trouble filling the order and could not give a definite ship date.

I think the problem is not when buying from Festool dealers who also sell on Amazon (though you probably won't get 2 day shipping free then), but when Amazon is the dealer itself.

So any big orders and most stuff that I can wait a week for goes to Bob, but that router bit I need for the project on the bench goes to Amazon (with my fingers crossed).

Since Woodcraft in Albuquerque closed (no big loss, they never had anything in stock either), the closest local dealer is 500 miles away in Denver.  I guess that would be "2 day pick-up at the store".

I have mixed experience with Amazon also. Not about stocking issues, but with occasional shipping problems. Especially with heavy items not being packaged appropriately arriving damaged or items that I'm looking to arrive on Saturday. My experience ordering a TS55 through Amazon's fulfillment was definitely unfulfilling. But smaller items they have been pretty good. And oddly their handling of the FS3000 I had delivery by truck freight and it worked very well.

One of the things about Amazon that I really like is that your username/password is global. So if I want to order a toolie or pocket knife or some other NAINA green koolaid I could in theory just pop over to Amazon.co.uk and order it there. Of course the UK Festool prices are such that you wouldn't want to get anything significant that way.

I've done it for DVDs a few times, not wanting to wait for 9 months for some BBC item already out in England to get to the US.

Just remember though - Royal Mail is more like Royal Fail.

Well.... my experience has been hit or miss with local salesmen some own the tools and know a great deal and others just know the standard sales pitch...  Prior to buying any tool I have done months worth of research and when it comes time to buy I just go get the tool and avoid dealing with the sales pitch.. Whoever is the lucky guy or gal they get the commision if any for just being at the right place at the right time...

Love Uncle Bob. He's still nice to me even after I backed into his gate. 
ToolNut (festoolproducts.com) has never done me wrong either. I use them when I want to avoid the tax. 

Now Woodcraft. I have bought from them a few times, just supplies, but I'm finished with them after the last encounter.
Walked into the store ready to buy a MIDI and some supplies. They didn't have one in stock. I suggested I still buy
and they could ship to me. They said, 'Sure, but you'll have to pay a shipping charge'. ?? If I ordered from WC online, there
wouldn't be one. If I ordered from any Festool dealer online, there wouldn't be one. Fail. I walked out and won't buy
, at least Festool, from them again.

I have bought form both Bob and Tom both are great Festool dealers.  Very knowledgeable, great service and fast shipping.

Rockler is another story very limited supply on hand and special orders take FOREVER!!!!!

Without a doubt Tom Bellemare www.tool-home.com. Beware as a hobbyist drugs might be cheaper

CU Woodshop, Champaign IL         the whole team is friendly and very knowledgable, if they don't know they find out.

Festool Junkie doesn't exist anymore!

Bob